RATE THESE UP AT YOUTUBE AND GOOGLE VIDEO (OH MY GOD Part 2)

[helderheid]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZws98jw67g

I sent the following to all my lists:

This couldn't be more crucial. Our votes are our voices. Please visit this website and watch the video and please send this to everyone you know,

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html

Main Findings The main findings of our study are:

1. Malicious software running on a single voting machine can steal votes with little if any risk of detection. The malicious software can modify all of the records, audit logs, and counters kept by the voting machine, so that even careful forensic examination of these records will find nothing amiss. We have constructed demonstration software that carries out this vote-stealing attack.

2. Anyone who has physical access to a voting machine, or to a memory card that will later be inserted into a machine, can install said malicious software using a simple method that takes as little as one minute. In practice, poll workers and others often have unsupervised access to the machines.

3. AccuVote-TS machines are susceptible to voting-machine viruse! s - computer viruses that can spread malicious software automatically and invisibly from machine to machine during normal pre- ! and post-election activity. We have constructed a demonstration virus that spreads in this way, installing our demonstration vote-stealing program on every machine it infects.

4. While some of these problems can be eliminated by improving Diebold's software, others cannot be remedied without replacing the machines' hardware. Changes to election procedures would also be required to ensure security.

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

I URGE YOU to vote absentee on a paper ballot and take a picture of your ballot before you send it in.

Remember to pass this email on. Thank you!

[helderheid]

1. embedded here

http://utah-vote.org/

[Booster]

2. I'm confused. Why does YouTube show only 2 viewers have looked

at this video? Does everyone not know that you have to register with YouTube in order to vote/comment on their videos. It only takes a minute.

[helderheid]

3. Good point - REGISTER - it's easy!

[mod mom]

48. Up to 1789 and has a 4 star rating. Keep going!

[helderheid]

67. we're moving on up!

[helderheid]

4. 4 stars now at You Tube - help me out guys!

[Swamp Rat]

5. k&r

[helderheid]

6. Bless your heart darlin'!

[I Have A Dream]

7. This needs to be on the Greatest page! Recommended! n/t

[helderheid]

8. Thank you!!

[Booster]

9. Come people. If you don't think it's important to get this message

out to everyone, then we're doomed. Let's use the internet to get people to understand cause we know the MSM is not going to help.

[helderheid]

11. This is THE issue. We HAVE to spread the word!

[helderheid]

10. Oh and GET THIS to Keith Olbermann ASAP!!!

[City Lights]

19. I sent it to him about 15 minutes ago.

:hi:

Wouldn't hurt to have others send it as well. ;-)

[helderheid]

12. one... more ... rec ...

[City Lights]

13. done. eom

[helderheid]

14. thanks! Can you be rec 5?

[dipsydoodle]

16. I think 6 of us

were #5 all at the same time. :)

[helderheid]

56. Love it!

[Adelante]

15. Done nt

[babylonsister]

17. K&R!

But what the heck does this mean?

"Changes to election procedures would also be required to ensure security."

Another repug-induced gagglefuck, sounds like.

[Sydnie]

18. Youtube rated

Great work. Thanks for posting it there and sharing the link here.

[Generic Other]

20. done

Thanks for the link. I am sending it to everyone I know. Like I said every voter in America needs to see this.

[LSK]

21. Howard Dean hacking an election box

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMUtzOxjJY

[helderheid]

22. rate that one up too!

[helderheid]

23. 4 stars, 77 ratings at youtube, 4.5 stars 17 ratings at google

[helderheid]

24. 5 Honors for This Video

#70 - Most Discussed (Today) - Science & Technology
#7 - Top Rated (Today)
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - Science & Technology
#66 - Most Viewed (Today) - Science & Technology
#14 - Top Favorites (Today) - Science & Technology

[In Truth We Trust]

25. Hand Counted Paper ballots NOW!!! or Fascism forever.

[Pirate Smile]

26. Rated, watched, kicked and recommended. Was this the guy on Al

Franken's show today? It sounds like it.

This needs to be sent to all politicians, consultants, TV and radio hosts, etc. if it hasn't already been provided to them.

[helderheid]

27. I sent it to all Dems running in my state, activist lists, and media

[helderheid]

28. The Google Video NEEDS HELP. Please rate it up.

[Booster]

29. This thread needs a little fire burning, doncha think?

[helderheid]

31. I think so! This is OUR media - we need to use it!!

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

30. K & R. Great video...

...No surprise exit polls don't match actual results in swing states where these machines are used, whereas they do match actual results in precincts of these same swing states where they're not used. Not enough for the FBI to take any interest though, they've got more important things to do---there are still many horsey farms to be excavated in the all important, interminable search for Jimmy Hoffa's remains. They simply can't be bothered with trivial matters such as stolen presidential elections.

The text below was copied and pasted from the Democratic Underground

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x91921

You have to scroll down to #79 -- by DU poster: mmiixx

I believe this describes how the majority of the massive vote theft was accomplished -- Relatively easy, invisible
to observers, very difficult to prove -- the perfect crime, provided your hired gun programmer doesn't make a
mistake.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Post:

This was a reply in an Ohio forum thread posted by DU newcomer WhiteKnight1. It's very interesting, and I want to
give it its' own thread here so more people are aware of it.http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... /*About me:I have a graduate degree in computer science, and more than 15 years of experience as a software engineer working with highly reliable systems.I have a knack for looking at the results of software failures and figuring out what's wrong with the code. For now, I prefer to remain anonymous and will go by the handle: WhiteKnight(email: [e-mail] ).About the bizzare vote counts in one Ohio Precinct:After seeing the Associated Press story titled "Machine Error Gives Bush Extra Ohio Votes", I started thinking about the numbers reported in the story, whichare:Votes for Bush: 4258Votes for Kerry: 260 Total number of voters: 638It also says that Bush "actually received 365 votes". That means there must have been 13 votes for other candidates (638-260-365 = 13).I wondered how this result could have been produced. They called it a "failure", but I know a lot about how systems can fail, and this sounded fishy. Why were Kerry's vote totals recorded properly, but not Bush's? It's much more likely that a system failure would cause either no vote totals to be recorded at all, or that both totals would be corrupted.I suppose it could have been a hardware failure that occurred right after Kerry's vote total had been written to storage, and just as Bush's was being written. But that's likely to be a very narrow time window. It's possible, but sounds like a very rare failure mode. It just seems odd that out of the whole universe of possible failures, we get a failure that records Kerry's votes correctly, and corrupts Bush's total.Think of it this way: In basketball you know there are many ways a shot can fail to go in. It can go off the glass and miss, it can bounce off the front of the rim, rattle out, airball etc... etc... But there is one particular failed shot that's very rare: when the ball comes in at just the right trajectory with just the right speed, and it lodges between the rim and the backboard - just sticks there. I've seen it happen maybe a couple of times in years of watching the NBA.So think of the odds of a failure that records Kerry's votes correctly, but corrupts Bush's as analogous to the ball jamming there between the rim and backboard. Pretty rare failure huh? Well, it gets even worse:Why was the number off by only several thousand?If the votes are added up using a 4 byte unsigned integer, then the possible values range from 0 to 4,294,967,296 (over 4 Billion). If a random bit error or hardware storage error occurred, then why didn't Bush get say 3,239,568 extra votes in this particular "failure"? Most true failures would result in some wild number that you would immediately recognize as garbage.The analogy here is: not only did the basketball lodge between rim and glass, but the Spalding logo ended up perfectly horizontal, aligned front and center.Given all of this, I decided to explore ways that vote counting software could end up with these particular results. Was someone adding a percentage to the Bush votes? Was there some multiplier involved? After thinking about it for an hour or so, I decided to take a different tack: think like the person who is trying to rig the election. What would you do? You wouldn't really want to change the total number of voters. That might be too easy to detect given people being checked off on voter roles. Instead you would want to shift votes from one candidate to another.
Maybe every 10th vote for kerry, you'd instead give to Bush.OK, that's pretty easy to program, but it wouldn't expain the bizzare results in this one precinct in Ohio. But... what if the evil programmer made a mistake? Maybe one line of code had an error they didn't catch. I decided to write a small vote counting program, and add in a function to steal every 10th vote. Once that was working I'd introduce a small error and see if the results came close the Ohio results reported by AP.The program below is the result. As you will see, there is one line of code that is supposed to add a stolen vote to Bush's total, and should be written as:b = b + 1; but (I theorize) it was mis-typed as:b = b + k; So instead of adding one stolen vote to Bush's total, it adds the running total of Kerry votes to Bush's total. Whoops! The output from the program with the typo in place is:starting electionElection results: b: 4258 k: 260 o: 13(the actual votes: b: 336 k: 288 o: 14)The output from the program with the typo corrected is:starting election Election results: b: 365 k: 260 o: 13 (the actual votes: b: 336 k: 288 o: 14)So the intent was to shift 29 votes from other candidates to Bush, but the one-line programming mistake gives him an extra 3922 votes.I'm not saying this proves that this is what happened, but it does indeed prove that a small, one-line programming error by an evildoer programmer could produce the results seen in this one Ohio precinct.-WhiteKnightp.s. Please circulate this as far and wide as possible. Thanks!*/#include <stdio.h>#include <string.h>// Vote totals for b=Bush k=Kery o=Otherint b=0, k=0, o=0;// The set of "real" books:int breal=0, kreal=0, oreal=0;//// Here's the hypothetical "patch" that the evildoer programmer// might have written://void robOhio(int creal, int* c) {// Look for every 10th vote from this candidate:if ((creal % 10)==0) {// OK, here's the bug. Should have been// b = b + 1;// Give the vote to bb = b + k; // Take it away from other candidate c = *c - 1;}}int main() {char votes<1000>;//// Here are the votes in a hypothetical order that I made up.// So in this example, the first two votes went to Kerry, the// next two to Bush, then one for Kery, one for Bush, one for // Other, and so on.//// The order of the votes does affect the final numbers but,// even if you change the order, the rough order of magnetude// of the bogus results stays about the same.////0 1 2 3 4
5//12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890strcpy(votes,"KKBBKBOKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBK
BBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
50strcat(votes,"KKBBKBKKOBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKOBKKBKKBKKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
100strcat(votes,"KKBBKBBKBKKKBBKBBKBBKKBOKBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
150strcat(votes,"KKBKKBBKKBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBOKKBKKKBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
200strcat(votes,"KKBKBBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKKBKBBKBOKKKBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
250strcat(votes,"KKBBKBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBOKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
300strcat(votes,"KKKBKBBKBBKKKBKBKKBBKKBKKOKKBKKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
350strcat(votes,"KKBKKBBKBBKKBBKKBKBOKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
400strcat(votes,"KKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
450strcat(votes,"BKKBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
500strcat(votes,"KKKBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKBKKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
550strcat(votes,"KKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBBKKKKKBBKBKKKBOKBBKBBKKBBKBBKBB"); //
600strcat(votes,"KKBBKBBKBBKKBBKBBKOBKOBKKBOKBOKKBBKBBK"); // 638printf("starting election\n");// Start
counting votes:for (int i=0; i<strlen(votes); i++) {char v = votes;if (v=='B') {b = b + 1;breal = breal + 1; } else if
(v=='K') {k = k + 1;kreal = kreal + 1;// This is not a vote for b, so steal some votes:robOhio(kreal, &k);} else if
(v=='O') {o = o + 1;oreal = oreal + 1; // This is not a vote for b, so steal some votes:robOhio(oreal,
&o);}}printf("Election results: b: %d k: %d o: %d\n",b,k,o);printf("(the actual votes: b: %d k: %d o:
%d)\n",breal,kreal,oreal);}

[helderheid]

32. .

[kster]

33. And yet the whole Government will REMAIN SILENT about this

KICK AND RECOMMENDED!! SEND FAR AND WIDE!!

[helderheid]

34. It's up to us now. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

[lonestarnot]

35. Google almost at excellent rating. 1/2 star to go.

[Alizaryn]

36. Done

[helderheid]

37. please light a fire on this thread

[helderheid]

38. Got our 1st negative comment!

[helderheid]

39. KIIICK!

[helderheid]

40. more

Princeton made a terrific "Security Demonstration" video on Diebold touchscreens that any lay person can easily understand.

Princeton's study goes well beyond what Bruce Funk and BlackBoxVoting discovered here in Utah because they had more access to the machine they studied.

It is available on

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

and on

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aZws98jw67g
(Thanks to Clarity of UDPC for pointing this out)

Also Brad Blog has a great article on the Princeton Study and interviewed some of the scientists:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3467

A vote for George Washington could easily be converted to a vote for Benedict Arnold on an electronic voting machine and neither the voter, nor the election officials administering the election would ever know what happened. It wouldn't require a "conspiracy theory" or a "conspiracy" at all. It could be done by a single person with just a few moments of access to the voting systems.

Those new findings are detailed, and illustrated on video-tape, in a new first-of-its-kind study released today by computer scientists and security experts at Princeton University's Center for Information Technology Policy.

(The version of the video demo at the Princeton website is being hit hard, and thus, slow to download and view currently. We've got a quick flash version available here for your convenience, courtesy of David Edwards.)

The scientific study has revealed, for the first time, that a computer virus can be easily implanted on an electronic voting machine which could, in turn, result in votes flipped for opposing candidates. The virus, as well, could be written to then spread itself from one machine to the next resulting in a stolen election. The malfeasance would likely never be discovered, the scientists have said.

Though the concept of stolen votes via electronic voting systems has been widely regarded as theoretically possible by experts up until now, a top-secret four-month long hands-on study of an actual touch-screen voting system, by the scientists at Princeton, has confirmed the worst nightmares of elections officials and American voters…not to mention a voting machine company known as Diebold.

The BRAD BLOG has had exclusive access to the scientists and information being tested as the team's various hack attempts have been designed and carried out over the course of the study.

Working directly with a Diebold AccuVote TS touch-screen voting system, the computer scientists have been able to implant a nearly-undetectable virus onto a touch-screen voting system, managing to successfully alter a voter's ballot — after it's already been confirmed and cast — in order to flip the vote so that it is recorded for a candidate other than the one the voter had intended.

According to the study's team leader, Edward W. Felten, a professor at Princeton's Department of Computer Science, the report confirms – and records in a video-taped demonstration – that such a malicious virus could be easily inserted onto a Diebold touch-screen voting system by a single individual "with just one or two minutes of unsupervised access to either the voting machine or the memory card" used with the system to store ballot definitions and vote tabulations.

The virus, as programmed by the Princeton team, could then spread from one voting system to the next depending on the way the machine in use is configured, or the way in which votes are tabulated in any particular jurisdication.

…NO 'CONSPIRACY' NECESSARY…

More here:

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3467

[helderheid]

41. check the comments

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=aZws98jw67g&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DaZws98jw67g

[welshTerrier2]

42. question on spreading viruses by sharing memory cards

great post!

for those who haven't read the study done by the Brennan Center on voting machine vulnerabilities, check out: www.brennanCenter.org ... read the article called: "The Machinery of Democracy" ...

in watching this video, the one thing i couldn't fully understanding was the mechanism they described for spreading viruses from machine to machine ... i can understand loading viruses onto multiple cards and then distributing those cards to elections officials ... and i can understanding stealing a card and infecting it with a virus ... but i couldn't follow the logic, in cases where a hacker had very little access to machines, where the same card with a virus on it would be moved from one machine to another and then another and so on until many machines became infected ...

why would a card, once installed in a machine for any given election, be removed from one machcine and loaded into another machine? doesn't each machine receive its own card? or is one card provided for town's to load onto all their voting machines?

[AllegroRondo]

44. My guesses

with a limited IT background...

Each card would have to be formatted before and after use in a voting machine, probably by running them all through a single computer. A virus could piggyback on the formatting procedure to infect any cards that came after it the format order.

[Kurovski]

43. Kick(nt)

[stepnw1f]

45. kick (nt)

[whistle]

46. One question, who could disassemble an E-vote machine as ...

...shown in the video modify the code and then reassemble the machine in under 2 minutes without attracting attention?

I'm not saying that is not a valid method to hack an E-vote machine, but I'm just not so sure it would be a practical way for a hacker to access the inner workings unless that hacker could do this in secret or under cover. To really accomplish the hack using that method would require taking the machines home overnight or doing this maneuver in a back room someplace.

That example needs further clarification I think. Skeptics and critics will point to this as absurd and sure way for a hacker to get caught.

[Bretttido]

55. Well, they would obviously do it in a scenario where no one is around

Late at night after everyone has left, or perhaps during lunch hour when the 3 other employees they work with have gone out to lunch. There could be thousands of different scenarios where someone is assured they have the machine alone to themselves for 5+ minutes. And heck, if someone posed as an "IT guy", he/she could flip the computer upside down and take it apart like that without anyone even questioning it.

[whistle]

62. Yes I can see where that would happen, but the video suggests

...that the E-vote machines have a pre-check procedure which I assume takes place on the morning just prior to the beginning of public voting. Thus, any tampering or downloading of hack-code has to be done after those validation checks. Something as obvious as an IT tech taking a machine down for some type of check, would be watched for any suspected tampering. But then again, it may appear that the IT guy is just doing the routine thing, but I would think collusion would be required.

Hey, I do not trust these E-vote machines and the secret software because it appears that these can be manipulated without accountability or some type of internal audit log. I think that is where the pressure has to be brought onto the companies which supply and maintain these machines to prove they can't be tampered with, without detection. Back to paper ballots and hand tallies!

[Red Right and BLUE]

63. And don't forget the keys are not hard to copy.

Anyone could have them.

[mod mom]

47. Sent it out far and wide. Thanks for posting this!

[helderheid]

49. Thanks!!

:hi:

[helderheid]

50. Check it out!!

Views: 3771
Comments: 50
Favorited: 53 times
Honors: 13 show
Links to
this video:
None

[helderheid]

51. and this

Honors for This Video

#72 - Most Discussed (Today)
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - Science & Technology
#8 - Most Discussed (This Week) - Science & Technology
#65 - Most Discussed (This Month) - Science & Technology
#2 - Top Rated (Today)
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - Science & Technology
#4 - Top Rated (This Week) - Science & Technology
#7 - Most Viewed (Today) - Science & Technology
#81 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Science & Technology
#49 - Top Favorites (Today)
#2 - Top Favorites (Today) - Science & Technology
#9 - Top Favorites (This Week) - Science & Technology
#91 - Top Favorites (This Month) - Science & Technology

[helderheid]

69. more

Honors for This Video

#50 - Most Discussed (Today)
#1 - Most Discussed (Today) - Science & Technology
#8 - Most Discussed (This Week) - Science & Technology
#65 - Most Discussed (This Month) - Science & Technology
#3 - Top Rated (Today)
#1 - Top Rated (Today) - Science & Technology
#4 - Top Rated (This Week) - Science & Technology
#7 - Most Viewed (Today) - Science & Technology
#81 - Most Viewed (This Week) - Science & Technology
#39 - Top Favorites (Today)
#2 - Top Favorites (Today) - Science & Technology
#9 - Top Favorites (This Week) - Science & Technology
#91 - Top Favorites (This Month) - Science & Technology

[stuartrida]

52. wow

:crazy:

[helderheid]

53. welcome to DU

[Bretttido]

54. Everyone should watch these videos

[helderheid]

59. I agree - I've noticed about 5 more people have uploaded the same video

[chat_noir]

57. Everyone with a website, a blog, myspace account, etc., needs to link

Everyone with a website, a blog, myspace account, etc., needs to link to these videos.!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZws98jw67g

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613&hl=en

[helderheid]

58. thank you - so far it says no one is linking to it

[Kablooie]

60. WAIT! This is the key to Dems winning the election.

We'll distribute cards that let Dems win all over the country.

Then there will be no stopping us!

Go Diebold! Go!

(THAT should get some governments to take notice)

[helderheid]

61. LOL!

[helderheid]

64. the comments are fun

[kaygore]

65. Taking a picture of the ballot before sending it is a great idea!

[helderheid]

66. It may not be counted but you will have proof of your vote

[L0oniX]

68. Me and my hacker buds knew about this years ago

Old news sux but at least more people will believe it now. No one believed me when I found out about it back when Diebold machine code was exposed on the web. Too bad the American people are so slow and ignorant and way too f*cking trusting. These repukes will do anything legal or illegal to get into and stay in power. They are evil traitor ass carrot bastards. So wake the hell up to it ...ok?

[Joanne98]

79. That story was broke on DU. Spring 2003

By Bev Harris. DUer althecat put the files on his NZ site. The rest is history.

[mod mom]

70. Now up at Huff Po-posted this request to rate up video.

[helderheid]

71. Excellent!! Do you have a link?

[mod mom]

75. link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/how-to-hack-a-diebold-iv_b_29414.html

[helderheid]

76. fantastic! Thanks!

[vickitulsa]

72. Hi, H -- busy day for you today!

:hi:

So glad to see you running the laps, speading the word on this one.

I voted up the youtube version before I ran an errand, then viewed and voted up the Google version when I got back. Will read some of the comments later, but I wanted to say thank you to you and all DUers (and anyone else!) who're helping to make our voice heard and our presence known via these video rankings.

Also, I thought I'd mention that I don't have the audio turned up on my PC right now, so I just watched the video completely without its audio accompaniment -- and I was able to understand every bit of it that way!

Doesn't take a genius to understand this at all -- it's not rocket science or brain surgery ... or even the highest tech IT science, it seems to me. Very basic, easy to comprehend. People I know who aren't even computer literate at all could understand this!

Good effort by the Princeton team, and now it's up to US to spread the word far and wide as quickly as possible.

As you said, THIS COULD NOT BE MORE IMPORTANT.

We have Benedict Arnold in the White House right now, thanks to such ease in stealing votes! Let's try to make sure the next BA doesn't slide into the Oval Office or any other elected offices next time.

[helderheid]

73. What a sweet thing for you to say!

Thank you for that and all you're doing!

:hi:

[helderheid]

74. .

[helderheid]

77. WE'RE #1 ON HIGHLY RATED VIDEOS!

http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=tr

[Joanne98]

80. YES!

[helderheid]

78. We're ALMOST on the most viewed page - keep it up DU!

[hunter]

81. Let's hope people "get it"

By the way the EAC ( http://www.eac.gov ) is running offense for the machine makers. Paul DeGregorio has been out and about saying everything's just fine, no worries...

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060912/OPINION/60911014/1049

[helderheid]

83. most comments are very positive but I know what you mean!

[helderheid]

82. KICK!

[helderheid]

84. LESS THAN 400 views to get on MOST VIEWED pages!

[helderheid]

85. Page 5 of MOST VIEWED, BABY!

http://www.youtube.com/browse?t=t&p=5&s=mp&c=0

[LoKnLoD]

86. K&R

I know a guy in the tech field who has a coworker who is working on the Diebold machines in Utah. I'm going to ask him if he knows anything.

[helderheid]

87. Good, maybe you can help save my state! :)

[LoKnLoD]

90. My state too :-)

but I don't think Pete has a chance of beating the waste of flesh, Hatch.

[intaglio]

88. K & R n/t

[helderheid]

89. Page 4 of most watched today