Instead of fighting with the truth, why don't we come up with better lies?

[RB TexLa]

I have seen several posts about fighting republican lies with the truth. Why bother? It doesn't work, sorry this doesn't sound all noble. But a noble loser is still a loser. Outside of those that are politically active the American public has proven time and time again that they do not care what the truth is.

[sweetheart]

1. Are we asking the same question?

Is perception truth, or is truth something other, and if it is other, how do
we know it, except perhaps that it is already there, already presciently known
to obviously be the truth, our apriori existance, based on perception, and what is truth?

The very same arguments we are having today, have been had in ango-americana
for 100 years now. *(the iron heel) The claims of globalization were being
made in 1906, and the same corporate war barony that was pursuing a path of
competing empires is entrenched.

So, it looks like the goal line has been moving in every generation, that
the american body politic is increasingly rightwards, corporatist and militarist.

But this is a faux projection by the corporate media, still we are like
freshwater fish being progressively adapted to more and more salt water, and
what in the UK is a conservative position of universal healthcare, a fair deal
for the poor, and energy and environmental conservation, in in the US, is a
leftwing position, because our yardline has been moved, every generation,
by the corporate cultural programmers.

They believe that they can create a society without progressive ideas at all,
that if the yardline is moved far enough, corporatism will dominate. And so
we are faced with this conundrum, that if we repeat the same leftist ideas of
our forebears, we've already been outframed, as the basis of older leftism were
unions and forms of social organization that have been shifted off the field
of power, and we are living anachronisms if we are hoping the 60's will return.

So, whilst untampered with populations the rest of the world are intensely
leftist and democratic, the US body politic is walking rightwards as if that
is creating a new species, sustainably unsustainable. And this is preached
in every hollywood film, in every TV series of slick propaganda, this rightwards
frame of overly white, overly male, overly militant and violent,
hollow culture of fundamentalist axioms and dissonant lies,
and this false mammon reaches out to embrace other idiocies
elsewhere on the planet in a return to the feudal values of women as property,
black people's votes not worth counting, and freedom as a priviledge.

This reframing poses a question to us all, to either be militant in rooting
it out, and deconstructing it to its first principals mercilessly, or to
reframe our own message like the neocons did, radically repackaged in a trojan
horse, a macrophage to heal the zero-sum corporate infection to be globally
sustainable before it kills us all with its toxification of the planet, its wars
and the bankruptcy of the poverty we're leaving our children.

http://www.progressiveindependent.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=41523

[quinnox]

2. I think Dems should be more noble than that

Plus there is enough real dirt and scum on the republicans anyway, no need to make shit up.

[sendero]

3. I don't think we have to lie..

... we just have to interpret and relate the truth the way the right does. Without shades of gray, without apology for our errors, and in easily digested sound bites.

[treestar]

4. IA, Dems don't seem to know how to use the dirt, or even dig it up

because they spend the time trying to explain things rationally to an irrational American public.

Kerry who had military service should have beat "war president" no-combat Shrub on that ground alone. I never understood how they got away with maligning Kerry's service while "we are at war."

Maybe Kerry could have paraded around in his military uniform; he may have the right to wear one? It goes against the grain, but for the sheeple, it might have worked.

The sheeple are so stupid it might have been possible to argue that Kerry is as tall as Osama, 6',5", I believe, and that Shrub is a short little weakling. Again, it feels like there is no way the Dems would stoop to that, yet with the sheeple it might have resonated.

Problem with the repukes is that they don't care about their dignity at all. Letting Bush parade around in that military uniform was something no self-respecting person in Bush's position could stand the embarassment of doing.