MEXICO to Burn Ballots - Now what could that mean: ELECTION FRAUD!!!

[autorank]

This is the "smoking gun" that provides the FINAL PROOF THAT OBRADOR WAS ROBBED. And I have a message to those smug European observers who declared this a fair election and to the NYT and the Corporate Media - you are complete fools! This election stunk from the start. The other BIG TELL that it was fixed came when the so called "independent" electoral authority opened an estimated 40% of the sealed ballot boxes. Even if there had been a recount, that act would have invalidated it, beyond any doubt. Now that they got their way, the rulers of Mexico have instructed the corrupt "independent" commission (darling of European and US observers) to BURN THE BALLOTS. Even the declared "winner," Calderon asks that the ballots not be burned.

GUILTY AS CHARGED. THE MEXICAN PEOPLE ARE HEROES OF DEMOCRACY for protesting, fighting peacefully, and walking the walk on the path to democracy. We must support them in any way we can. Spread the word about this filthy corruption.

Mexican Officials to Burn Ballots

Mexican electoral officials say they will destroy
ballots from disputed presidential vote
http://tinyurl.com/g6fw2
MEXICO CITY, Sep. 13, 2006
By WILL WEISSERT Associated Press Writer
(AP)


(AP) Electoral officials said Tuesday that they will burn the ballots from the disputed presidential election despite calls from both candidates to spare them.

Luis Carlos Ugalde, chairman of the Federal Electoral Institute, or IFE, said in a letter to President-elect Felipe Calderon that a 1990 law clearly called for the burning of the ballots from the July 2 election.

"The IFE is obliged to destroy electoral documentation once the electoral process is concluded," Ugalde wrote.

(No date set yet)

Snip

Despite the court's final decision, Gerardo Fernandez, spokesman for Lopez Obrador's Democratic Revolution Party, said Tuesday that electoral officials should recount the ballots before destroying them to erase doubt about the elections.

==============

The Mexican Movement for Dignity, Social Justice, and Democracy

CROWDS IN MEXICO CITY ARE THE LARGEST
IN ANY PRODEMOCRACY PROTESTS IN HISTORY!!!!!

Rally for Democracy, hundreds of thousands protest again and again...


The people support democracy in unison...

The Mexican People:
Heroes of Democracy

“The only hope of Democracy, that fragile thing never granted but always promised, is gone by virtue of election fraud... and with it the social contract that holds our society together.”
- Anaxarchos


By Michael Collins
“Scoop” Independent New
Washington, DC

English: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00269.htm
Spanish: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00268.htm

The Mexican peoples’ democracy movement and their leader Andrés Manuel López Obrador are modern heroes of democracy and to all who demand clean elections. They recall the heroics of the Ukrainians with one important difference. There are no “great powers” supporting them. In fact, the American regime is hostile to a victory by Obrador and the Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD). The increasingly unpopular and isolated White House cadre may have done its best to obstruct such an eventuality in ways which by now are predictably familiar. The Mexican people are alone, on the street, fighting the brave fight for people everywhere who believe in the inherently inalienable and natural right of men and women to determine their own destiny through free, fair, and transparent elections.

[Ammonium]

1. Burning ballots

Is there any precident for burning ballots in Mexico? Is this something they always do or is it something this go 'round they decided, hey we better burn these things before the truth gets out?

[autorank]

3. Both

There is a law that says you can do this but, at the same time, there is an ongoing controversy and doing it proves that they can't stand inspection of the ballots.

The alleged "winner" said this in the AP article: "In his own letter to Ugalde, Calderon wrote that saving the ballots would guarantee "citizen certainty and confidence in Mexican institutions."

He knows that with this done, he will never be accepted by a huge segment of the people.

They don't have to burn them in any hurry and since Calderon wants them saved, for what? Why not a recount...because the seals have been broken, the electoral institute is covering it's tracks.

"In late news, La Jornada on July 16 charges that 40% of the vote packets have been illegally reopened by the IFE since the election. This amounts to a pre-emptive strike against the credibility of any recount. The charges, if true, are tantamount to proof of fraud, evidence prima facie that AMLO won the election." http://tinyurl.com/jpt2q

[Ammonium]

4. Fuck'em

I hope the people on AMLO's side continue to protest and do set up their own government within Mexico.

[autorank]

5. That's the plan, a "parallel" government.

He was Mayor of Mexico City, so he could do it. In addition, the South is in rebellion. Oaxaca has evicted the Federal governor for a collective government, in Chiapas, the PRD won the governorship, and there is real hostility toward Fox and company. It's economic and ethnic conflict based on years of exploitation. Watch the continued demonetization of Obrador. The "Leftist" tag is like calling Hubert Humphrey a leftist. He's a progressive. It's an amazing thing to see because Obrador and his campaign were sure they'd win. This is all driven by the people and planned as it goes. What a deal.

[Adelante]

29. The law is that the ballots must be destroyed

It doesn't say when that should happen, except it is after a new election has been certified. The question is will it happen sooner or later, and will the ballots be made available for study under other, very new, transparency laws.

[autorank]

39. It's very similar to CA's 50th District election...

What do you do when there is a controversy? Burn ballots right away? Sooner rather than later? Or accommodate the process of recovering public confidence?

In CA's 50th, there was an ongoing controversy and there were still many thousands of votes yet to be counted, yet Denny Hastert chose to swear in Republican Bilbray just 7 days after the election. We came to the correct conclusion on that one; it was a blatant power grab to set a precedent for other power grabs by the Republican leadership (that one's a real nightmare).

If you do things like this, it raises serious and justified questions.

I may be cynical here but I see Calderon doing a bait and switch here. He says keep the ballots for "confidence." What confidence do they provide unless they're available for examination. And if they are, will the broken seals be revealed on a wide scale.

If they burn the ballots prior to inspection or an unofficial recount, like the type done in Florida, then they're acting guilty. Guilty is as guilty does.

I hope things remain peaceful.

[Nikki Stone 1]

49. What's going on with that race anyway?

?

[autorank]

63. This is what happened...don't know how the race is going.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00372.htm
According to a senior political activist, the district was created to be Republican forever. No Democrat could win, they tought. So the closeness of the race is quite something.

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier:)

[Nikki Stone 1]

64. So did they work to keep it Republican, then...

Hmmm

[GetTheRightVote]

2. It sounds like they hope to not get caught with their hand in cookie jar.

:kick:

[rumpel]

6. Any background on Ugalde?

Amazing - can no court intervene as it was done in Ohio recently?

What qualifies these people to be independent observers if they themselves violate the trust of conducting a presumably fair review of the votes by opening 40% of the sealed boxes?
Again, either they are extremely negligent and incompetent or have an intent contrary to their duty - and I am afraid it is the latter.

The people will not sit idly by, and rightfully so.

[autorank]

13. Rockefeller University and Energy Dept. Mexico - prior posts;)

Career http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Carlos_Ugalde

Luis Carlos Ugalde was a professor of political science and chair of the undergraduate program in political science and international relations at the Center for Economic Research and Teaching (CIDE) in Mexico City. He has been a researcher and adjunct professor at various academic institutions, including Harvard University's David Rockefeller Center for Latin American Studies (2001); Georgetown University (2002): American University (2000); the Autonomous Technological Institute of Mexico, ITAM, (1989-1996); and the Monterrey Higher Studies Technological Institute, ITESM, (2003).

In addition to his academic career, he has worked in the Mexican government. He was chief of staff to the Secretary of Energy in 1997* and chief of staff at Mexico's embassy to the United States of America from 1997 to 2000. Ugalde is a permanent member of the Mexican Council for Economic and Social Development (COMDES).

*He was a member and stayed a member of the government during the 1997 Chiapas massacre.

[lala_rawraw]

7. KICK high up

with heels

[Kurovski]

8. K&R.

It seems pretty obvious at this point.

[Einsteinia]

9. thanks for keeping us posted on our parallel universe

of election crimes!

Burning the evidence--how obvious!

[mod mom]

10. UFB.

[Pooka Fey]

11. Here's my "up too late" K&R

[Vidar]

12. I thought I saw another thread saying Calderon opposed this.

[autorank]

14. He does or he says he does but he doesn't...who know. His statement:

From the article: "In his own letter to Ugalde, Calderon wrote that saving the ballots would guarantee "citizen certainty and confidence in Mexican institutions."

Well, actually Senor Calderon, a recount of all the ballots would guarantee "citizen certainty and confidence"...but I suspect strongly he knows that they cannot save the ballots. If La Journada is right in it's reports, and they've been very good I understand, 40% of the ballot seals are broken, probably by the institute...this means that a recount is not going to work...compromised evidence. Sweet!

Good question. We'll see.

[Vidar]

17. Got it. Thanks autorank.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

38. The PRD counted them once. They recounted 9%.

And the European Union observers stated that while they saw minor irregularities, there was nothing that would have changed the results. So what exactly is the beef again? (I mean, besides being disappointed that they didn't win?)

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[autorank]

53. Check out what they found.

The European Union folks pronounced things OK after the election, which was premature. I'm not sure you've got your timing right, you may. I'll check but look at this:

Mexico’s Partial Vote Recount Confirms Massive and Systematic Election Fraud
With Less than 9 Percent of Precincts Recounted, More than 126,000 Votes Are Found to Have Been Disappeared or Illegally Fabricated
http://www.narconews.com/Issue42/article2010.html
By Al Giordano
Part V of a Special Series for The Narco News Bulletin

August 14, 2006

Finally, the hard numbers are starting to come in. In the “partial recount” of paper ballots from the July 2 presidential election in Mexico, ordered by the Supreme Electoral Tribunal (known as the Trife), the recount has been completed in 10,679 precincts of the 11,839 ordered by the court (about 9 percent of Mexico’s 130,000 precincts). From these precincts, Narco News has obtained the following preliminary numbers that confirm the massive and systematic electoral fraud inflicted on the Mexican people:

* In 3,074 precincts (29 percent of those recounted), 45,890 illegal votes, above the number of voters who cast ballots in each polling place, were found stuffed inside the ballot boxes (an average of 15 for each of these precincts, primarily in strongholds of the National Action Party, known as the PAN, of President Vicente Fox and his candidate, Felipe Calderón).
* In 4,368 precincts (41 percent of those recounted), 80,392 ballots of citizens who did vote are missing (an average of 18 votes in each of these precincts).
* Together, these 7,442 precincts contain about 70 percent of the ballots recounted. The total amount of ballots either stolen or forged adds up to 126,282 votes altered.
* If the recount results of these 10,679 precincts (8.2 percent of the nation’s 130,000 polling places) are projected nationwide, it would mean that more than 1.5 million votes were either stolen or stuffed in an election that the first official count claimed was won by Calderon by only 243,000 votes.
* Among the findings of this very limited partial recount are that in 3,079 precincts where the PAN party is strong and where, in many cases, the Democratic Revolution Party (PRD) of candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador did not count with election night poll watchers, one or more of three things occurred: Either the Federal Electoral Institute (IFE, in its Spanish initials) illegally provided more ballots than there are voters in those precincts, or the PAN party stole those extra ballots, ...

[reprehensor]

15. Bastards. n/t

[EFerrari]

16. What could be more inflammatory.

My cousin has in laws in Oaxaca. It's really dangerous down there right now. :(

[autorank]

41. Sure is...

Oaxaca's Popular Assembly Expels the State Government

[katinmn]

18. This is the ultimate challenge. Viva Mexico resistance!

This is beyond the pale. :mad:

[cal04]

19. Plan to burn presidential ballots sets off furor in Mexico

thanks autorank!

It has scheduled the ballot burning for sometime after Dec. 1, when President-elect Felipe Calderón is due to be sworn in.

But the petitioners Monday protested the decision, which they claim was politically motivated.

"It's a very clumsy political move," said Irma Sandoval, an expert on transparency laws who's advising the petitioners. "The IFE has the historic chance to calm the suspicions held by a large share of the population."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mexico/stories/MYSA091306.01A.burning_ballots.30ed785.html




Local organization joins fight over presidential race in Mexico

In a show of solidarity with their like-minded counterparts in Mexico, a group of local activists is heading to Mexico City this week to join with supporters of leftist presidential candidate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who narrowly lost the July 2 election Felipe Calderon.

Dozens of people from the Riverside-based National Alliance for Human Rights and other groups from around the United States will participate with hundreds of thousands of Lopez Obrador supporters in Mexico in several events marking Mexican Independence Day.
http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_4327063

[autorank]

40. Great stuff ... more pics from you;) Bravo!!!

[Jcrowley]

20. Obvious corruption

Technocratic dictatorship with the rigged vote then being used to validate the authority.

K&R

[kpete]

21. liars and thieves

Thanks for the info autorank!

I am in awe of the Mexican people and their spirit of rebellion.

[Annces]

22. Burning the evidence

Isn't that tidy.

[autorank]

48. It is tidy. Bet they had spotless rooms as teenagers;

[oc2002]

23. The only thing that will save Mexico is a civil war to oust the hunta

and restore a legitamate government.

[Bridget Burke]

25. More than a million Mexicans died in the Revolution of 1910-1920

It was actually more of a Civil War than a Revolution.

Let's hope that Mexico can find another way to change, rather than glibly hope for more bloodshed.

[autorank]

30. I couldn't agree with you more. This is Gandhi and King from Obrador

side and it can't be met with force. In 1968 there were five or six thousand demonstrators in a square and they were attacked. The dimensions of these demonstrations makes that pale. Violence is already
being used in Oaxaca and, reportedly, on a lesser scale in the capitol by provocateurs who are harassing foreign journalists and anyone from the outside there to support PRD and the Mexican democracy movement.

There needs to be a radical compromise where the goals of PRD are acknowledged and met to a large degree in return for a smoother transition than we will have otherwise. After all, their demands are reasonable - address rampant poverty, stop allowing national resources to be pilfered, and free and fair elections. There's more but "leftist" is not the correct label for Obrador.

[rinsd]

32. Easy for you to say. You won't be doing the dying.

Personally I hope for peaceful solution.

[autorank]

42. Gahndi and King are the models here...

There are 30 million or more people in Mexico City. It's like Paris, the hub. If you have Mexico City then a peaceful movement is quite viable. The PAN would have to be literally insane to use the type of force necessary to dispel that many demonstrators.

Peaceful, nonviolent resistance...

[Me.]

24. I Hope Obrador Sticks To His Guns

so to speak, and keeps his parallel government going.

*shadow government*

[autorank]

43. He's gone further than anyone would have imagined.

I think he's stepping into his destiny with real courage...I admire him.

:hi:

[dogday]

26. They sure want to burn the evidence quickly

:wtf:

[Wilms]

27. K & R n/t

[autorank]

45. Gracias Senor!!!

[Xenotime]

28. Typical RW tactics.. They must have the * playbook.

[LunaC]

31. Luis Carlos Ugalde is Mexico's version of Katherine Harris

It's going to be a never-ending battle.....

[bvar22]

33. GOSH! I haven't seen a word about this on ABC.....

or CBS....or NBC..... :shrug:
Guess its not really happening.
.
.
.
.
.
Now Back to Fear Factor after a few words from our sponsor.




VIVA Obrador!
VIVA Chavez!!

[autorank]

46. Well, we need to understand and give them a break. They were busy

lying to millions of American children. "It's a hard job..."

Viva you for supporting this!

[bleever]

34. Big kick for democracy that isn't faith-based.

:kick:

[autorank]

47. It's face in the crowd based, millions of supporters. Viva bleever!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

35. Even Calderon called for them to be saved.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/09/12/mexico.ballots.ap/

:wtf:

[bvar22]

51. Calderon clled for them to be "saved" AFTER

40% of the boxes had been opened.... (and their contents rearranged?)
See OP.

[robertpaulsen]

36. K & R! Great post! I totally agree with your last paragraph!

:kick:

[autorank]

44. Thanks for saying that. They are an inspiring group of people, all of

them...the movement has a leader but he's leading from the will of the people. They've just had it, I suspect.

[hogwyld]

37. K & R!!

Gotta keep this at the top for all to see! Let's hope that the fascist junta collapses under the weight of it's lies, and the real leader takes his rightful place! Viva Obrador! Viva Chavez!

[stepnw1f]

50. The Anemic Sick Right Wingers

could never have support that Obrador has. We need to show the same solidarity here for our election this November!

[tom_paine]

52. Mexicans have more guts in their little pinkies to stand up for democracy

Than the entire nation of Imperial Subjects here in Amerika.

Unbelievable. But there it is. I don't know if the Mexicans can overcome THEIR Bushevik Monsters, who are likely supported financially buy OUR Bushevik Monsters, but they are fighting.

The Imperial Subjects of Amerika wouldn't fight unless their TV told them to.

[Land Shark]

54. No, there are Millions of Americans thinking they are basically alone...

and so they do nothing. Your understandable disappointment with the situation here reinforces that fictitious alienation Americans "feel", but the spell is in the process of being broken.

[tom_paine]

61. I pray you are correct. But without the vote...we have no ability to

effect change.

THAT is the issue that concerns me. And while the Busheviks don't have total control or anything, they have enough unchallenged ability to alter election outcomes (with just their legal and semi-legal methodologies, not even counting Diebold and other stuff unproven) to make them invalid anyway.

Even if you are correct, how can that awareness be reflected when just enough will be taken away to do the necessary. Might as well be 99.9-0.01% as 50.6-49.4% if the outcome is rigged.

[lonestarnot]

55. Can't they be stopped with force by the people?

[Mind Snapper]

56. Tried to recommend, but I don't have enough posts yet

[lonestarnot]

57. I did it for you!

[havocmom]

58. Prolly a donation issue- stars bring options

Welcome to DU though :hi:

[autorank]

60. Mind Snapper, Welcome to DU!!!

You'll have that option soon. Enjoy!!!

[autorank]

59. Check this out: Zapatistas in Cyberspace

http://www.eco.utexas.edu/faculty/Cleaver/zapsincyber.html

Wow, didn't know about this until yesterday. It's fascinating.

[lovuian]

62. Mexico is about to ignite

Revolution is an amazing thing...

[Keepontruking]

65. Mexico

We didn't burn ours ...........Did we????????// I'm sure we should have they were just as corrupt and we aren't a third world county .....our we??????????? Circus Girl