Just saw a cop shoot a homeless guy's dog

[Recursion]

That was really weird.

The guy (I think his name is Mark; I've talked to him a couple of times when he's been sitting in the circle) had let his dog off the leash for a few minutes to scamper around and chase squirrels. True, this is a violation of DC law. But when the dog started coming up to a cop -- not aggressively, as far as I can see, just the way a happy dog will, the cop yelled "back! back!", drew, and shot the dog.

Now, I'm not a cop, but I am a Marine, and I know what a clear field of fire is, and I know that the cop didn't have one. DuPont Circle is, after all, a circle, and there were people sitting on the benches in every direction, not to mention the cars directly in his line of fire on Mass Ave. had he missed the dog.

Mark (or whatever his name is) was flipping out because this dog has been his only friend for like 4 years, and he can't adopt another one now that he's lost his house. Add to that vignette the smell of cordite giving me an Iraq flashback, and it makes for a pretty shitty way to start an evening.

Any idea what I can do to help this guy get another dog? Or to figure out why the cop shot when it seemed so unnecessary? I tend to give a lot of leeways to cops in terms of what they do to defend themselves, but to be honest from my angle what he did looked really dangerous and pointless.

[Thickasabrick]

1. OMG - that is horrible!

I wish I was there to help - I would totally buy that guy another dog. Sometimes I hate police officers.

[Lindacooks]

2. Please report this to the precinct.

And describe the cop to them.

That's really disgusting. Maybe you could help the guy get another dog by adopting one yourself, then giving it to him (maybe check with a lawyer first?).

And please take care of yourself - flashbacks can be dangerous and you've been through enough already.

[Recursion]

5. I was one of about 100 witnesses

and backup was there pretty fast so I just went on home. I mean, it was surreal; the circle was literally full of people because it was like 5:45 and everybody was getting off work, going to the metro, going to dinner, playing chess on the tables 20' from the cop, etc. I've never seen somebody take a shot that risky, even in a war zone. I will call in to the precinct, though, that's a good point.

Oh, and "flashback" was a strong term; I've seen Nam vets with the real deal and I ain't it (yet). I just had a very intense memory associated with that smell. Thanks for your concern.

[Lindacooks]

6. Sounds like that cop should have some time off.

My dh took 'shoot/don't shoot' training in preparation for a short story he wrote. I just asked him and he said NO WAY was that a proper shot to take.

[sgxnk]

88. there is no way

based on this brief narrative whether you know if it was good shot or not

and i teach use of force TO cops

but i don't make baseless assumptions based on narratives like this

i have no idea if it was justified or not

nor do you

[Lindacooks]

92. Have you ever taken shoot/don't shoot training?

Based on what the OP said, that cop took a huge risk, shooting an animal who wasn't charging, in a crowd of people.

If you really do teach force, then you would know that.

[Sterling]

100. So you must know there are many ways preferred to fire arms in stopping

dogs in a public place where people are around. I hope so or you must be terrible at the job you claim to do.

[TheWatcher]

130. Self-Delete

[PhilYerHead]

168. Repeating once again, go find the Vets on the Mall with VFP.

Go to CampDemocracy.org

You will find many friends there.

Peace

[GCP]

3. Did you get a badge number?

It seems to me he needs to be reported to his superiors for dangerous discharge of a fire-arm.
What a prick to shoot the poor guy's dog like that. That makes me so :grr:

[Recursion]

7. DuPont's not in the precinct where I know cops...

...but I'll talk to some officers I know and see if I can at least find out what the f**k was up with that. I didn't see a badge number; I was like 10' from him and got the hell farther away when he drew.

[warrens]

102. He's gotta report the discharge of his weapon

Shouldn't be too hard to track down. That's ridiculous...I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

[wtmusic]

4. That is sad

Goddammit. Undoubtedly a Republican. I hope he goes home and has sweet little dreams about what a good little Rule-Follower he is.

[seemunkee]

8. The DC police are pretty stressed out right now

With the crime emergency they've been working their regular shifts plus an extra shift on one of their days off. My neighbor is a supervisor on the force and he said his guys are all pretty tired and need time off.
Doesn't mean the officer was right but he may not be thinking as clearly as he normally would. Bad situation all the way around. My sympathy to Mark on the loss of his friend.

[guinivere]

11. I can understand that they are tired and stressed.

But imho, somebody that is that tired and stressed does not need to be running around a city with a gun.





What a horrible thing for Mark. I think that the cop should replace his dog for him.

[Benhurst]

15. Yeah; but I doubt, stressed or not, he would have shot Barney.

How sad to take so much from one who has so little.

This story makes me :puke:.

[StraightDope]

68. Barney...

Man, I hate that fucking schnauzer.

[bobbolink]

31. Then they need to KNOW when they're at that point, and GO HOME!

No excuses! Endangering people isn't just a little game!

Truck drivers aren't allowed to work over so many hours in a row.

Neither are air line pilots and other professions.

Cops shouldn't, either.

So, tell that damned supervisor to see to it that they get the time off, NOW!

[seemunkee]

38. By orders of the Mayor and Chief of Police

They won't get their normal days off until they rescind the "crime emergency" who knows when that will be. They can't take even a single sick day without going to one of the police docs. Vacation time has been revoked.
Again, I'm not making excuses for this particular action but this may have contributed.

[bobbolink]

48. *THAT*, in itself, is criminal!

There is just NO excuse.

I'm appalled.

[katinmn]

64. Sounds like a tinderbox ready to roar into flames

It sounds unsafe not to give police officers time off when the need/earn it.

When people are that stressed out, next time they could should a person.

[dcfirefighter]

134. Sick Days

same clinic for us. Call in sick, go to a.m. sick call, take off the rest of the day. If you're that stressed, you're sick. Take off. Shit, 20% of MPD's enormous force was off long term sick a year ago - we're in the same retirement system, so they changed the rules. Now, you've only got a couple of months off before they try and retire you. Sucks pretty bad if you break a leg or your back in the line of duty. Thanks MPD!

[mmonk]

67. We don't need peace officers that "stressed" as they become

an endangerment to public safety instead of an insurer of safety.

[The Stranger]

108. Please don't apologize for police wantonly shooting homeless dogs.

It really just doesn't even come close.

[keepCAblue]

9. This is a case of excessive use of police force and animal cruelty

I would like to bring this to the attention of the ASPCA, the Humane Society of the United States and the local media. Would you be willing to provide your name and contact info as a witness for these agencies or reporters? Do you have any idea who the dog's owner is or how to contact him?

[keepCAblue]

10. Just out of curiosity, what breed or mix was the dog? n/t

[Recursion]

14. some sort of bulldog

but it was a small dog; maybe 18" at the shoulder

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. Probably another idiot with pit bull hysteria. nt

[Recursion]

20. Maybe

but this wasn't a pit (not that "pit bull" has a strict meaning, mind you); I mean, it wasn't one of those big beefy American Bulldogs. It was scrawny (not surprising, given the guy it was hanging out with).

I'm definitely going to see what I can find out about this tomorrow. And take some pictures of where it was.

[xchrom]

12. ''back''? -- did he think the dog was a perp?

[Nikki Stone 1]

18. Nah, he thought the dog was a terrorist

:evilgrin:

[Recursion]

19. I couldn't tell...

...if he was saying "back" to the dog or to the people behind the dog. Like I said, I wouldn't have taken that shot in Iraq, let alone in DC (not that I would ever shoot a non-rabid dog, personally)

[Subdivisions]

13. Absolutely horrible. And, taking away that poor man's companion

was inexcusable. You just don't shoot someone's animal like that.

"Any idea what I can do to help this guy get another dog?"

Yes, go to your local humane society and get him another dog and take it to him and, then, try to stay in touch with him so you can be sure the animal is being properly cared for and so you can bring him some food for the animal.

[bertha katzenengel]

16. I just called and emailed WTOP to ask them to report and investigate

Bless you, bud. :hug: I hope this media outlet digs and reports.

[Recursion]

21. Cool, that makes two of us

Hopefully they'll run a story on it tomorrow. I mean, there were at least a hundred witnesses.

[bertha katzenengel]

26. I just called the Washington Post too, the City Desk

The reporter who answered said it was the first he'd heard. They're looking into it.

[Recursion]

32. A schematic (why should the 9/11 forum have all the diagrams?)

Now, this photo is actually from the wrong side of the circle but it's the only shot I have of DuPont, and, being a circle, all the sides are roughly the same.

If you look at the far end of the circle you'll see some benches with people sitting on them (people are always on these benches). They go all the way around the circle, and past the benches in the cop's line of fire was Massachussetts avenue. And this was taken from a sidewalk that goes around the circle just inside the benches, a sidewalk that was full of people. (not *packed* like at lunchtime, but there were definitely people there.) Just to give you an idea of what we're talking about here. The distance between the cop and the dog (arrows touch the ground where feet were on the ground, roughly), shows you about the angle he was firing at.

I'll wait to hear the cop's side of the story, but like I said before, no way I'd take that shot, given the sidewalk, benches, and street past the dog (and, let me add, given the fact that it was a dog who was not as far as I could see being aggressive).

[bertha katzenengel]

35. Call the Post yourself and report it as an eyewitness.

Give the guy the full story. 202.334.6000

[Recursion]

36. Will do, thanks nt

[Glimmer of Hope]

39. I can't believe this happened in Dupont! There are always

tons of people around and he could of accidental hit a bystander. This cop must have some issues and probably has a history. I would try to contact your city council member and Chief Ramsey's office.

That poor man! The dog was probably a huge source of comfort. :(

[Mr_Spock]

40. Holy smoke - shot it in a public area like that?

That's stunning to me.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

22. Inexusable. That particular cop is a dangerous idiot...

...if the shooting happened as you describe, and a serious liability to the DCPD. He should be dismissed at the very least.

[misanthrope]

150. He ought to be eviscerated...

...and made to watch as canines lap up his entrails.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

161. If dogs could vote I think you could be our next President.

[AngryOldDem]

23. Civil rights and liberties really tend to blur between cops and homeless

Police at times have come to the shelter where I work with a vague description of somebody, and they expect us to roust everyone in the place on nothing more than "We think he/she might be here." We really have to be careful, and we have pressed the police to bring us some kind of warrant, etc., to justify why they are there. They have also asked to see our nightly registration rolls, which we politely refuse to show unless we are compelled by some kind of court order. To do otherwise is a big breach of confidentiality. These visits are rightly called "fishing expeditions" because it's been rare that they come with a warrant, a specific ID, or anything else.

The homeless basically are really at the mercy of the law.

I'm sorry about the man's dog.

[lonestarnot]

24. File a complaint with the Board of Standards and Review re the

shooting. I don't know about the dog. Would he even want one after this and in his chaos of homelessness?

[1620rock]

28. The cops are all going nuts again like they did back in the 60's.

[lonestarnot]

30. Not any different than usual here. Are you in DC also?

[judaspriestess]

25. I'll say it - Motherfucker asshole cop

and I don't care how fucking stressed they are. He probably saw the dog as target practice to see what a bullet can really do. Many of these assholes are trigger happy. I hope he loses his job. That is just WRONG and this really pisses me off reading this.

Did anyone say anything to that poor excuse of a human being hiding behind a badge??

Bulldogs are wonderful dogs and didn't the asshole have pepper spray?

This poor man losing his companion like that....... Wow!! I hate this country sometimes.

[Recursion]

27. Weirdest thing was...

...I remember thinking "doesn't he have spray or a baton?", and then thinking "but the dog was way out of range of spray or a baton" and then putting together (in the weird slow-motion-but-fast-forward my brain goes into now when I hear gunfire) "shit, he's out of range because the dog is about 8-10 feet from him."

Something's up here, I need to find out tomorrow wtf happened because it's bugging the hell out of me.

[Mr_Spock]

29. He shot the dog at 8-10 feet?

That's weird. I was bit by a dog and sent a cop to question the owner. The dog bit the cop too. It never occured to me that the cop would shoot the dog, though in my case I think it was justified. In the situation you describe, it seems way out of line.

[Recursion]

34. See post #32 for a pic of the distances nt

[Rex]

33. Wow.

Did the cop just exhibit PTSD type symptoms? I have a hard time believing a cop would mistake a friendly dog for a mean one.

[Poiuyt]

37. This breaks my heart - please read this:

Gentlemen of the jury, the best friend a man has in this world may turn against him and become his enemy. His son and daughter that he has reared with loving care may become ungrateful. Those who are nearest and dearest to us, those whom we trust with our happiness and our good name, may become traitors to their faith. The money that a man has he may lose. It flies away from him when he may need it most. Man's reputation may be sacrificed in a moment of ill considered action. The people who are prone to fall on their knees and do us honor when success is with us may be the first to throw the stone of malice when failure settles its cloud upon our head.

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his DOG. A man's dog stands by him in prosperity and in poverty, in health and in sickness. He will sleep on the cold ground,where the wintry winds blow and the snow drives fiercely, if only he may be near his master's side. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer, he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world. He guards the sleep of his pauper master as if he were a prince. When all other friends desert, he remains. When riches take wing and reputation falls to pieces, he is as content in his love as the sun in its journey throught the heavens. If fortune drives the master forth an outcast into the cold, friendless and homeless, the faithful dog asks no higher privilege than that of accompanying him to guard him against danger, and to fight against his enemies. When the last scene of all comes, and death takes his master in its embrace and his body is laid away in the cold ground, no matter if all other friends pursue their way, there by his graveside will the noble dog be found, his head between his paws and his eyes sad, but open in alert watchfulness, faithful and true even to death.

-Senator George Vest, 1870.

[Booster]

95. Thanks for posting this. I have passed it on to everyone I know.

[judaspriestess]

41. that distance is way way too far for that asshole to feel

threatened. and if he did have pepper spray he could have waited for the dog to get closer and sprayed him. I hope he gets what he deserves and gets fired.

Was anyone else upset? did anyone say anything to this fuckwad?

[Recursion]

60. We were all freaked out

Though my own PTSD'd ass was busy scrambling for cover once he shot :)

The woman that "Mark" (I'm thinking now that's not his name but I'll probably remember what it is some time tonight) hangs out with came over almost immediately and was trying to help the dog and "Mark" (this kills me to think about) was just holding the dog's head and apologizing to him. The rest of us were clearing the hell out of there because we didn't know what was about to happen. Probably the wrong reaction, since the only defense against an out of control peace officer is a vigilant citizenry. Sigh.

We just all kind of milled around wondering if we'd just seen what we just saw for three minutes until the car drove up on the circle and told us to clear out. I didn't see what happened after that but I'll see what I can find out tomorrow.

[Union Thug]

42. Reason number 5567 for me to dislike and distrust cops...

As I've learned, and as often has been said, there's no problem in this world that the police can't make worse.

[keepCAblue]

43. Report this to the Washington Humane Society (contact info in post)

Phone: (202)BE HUMANE

or email: [e-mail]

I sent the following emai to "mitch.b." I urge everyone to do the same and to email copies to those agencies or orgs I've cc'd.

*********************************

Subject: Please investigate: DC cop shoots homeless man's friendly dog
Monday, September 11, 2006 6:47:16 PM
To:[e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]

Dear Washington Humane Society,

Today a metro DC cop is reported to have shot a harmless, friendly dog (small, thin dog) for no justifiable reason. This crime of animal cruelty occured in Dupont Circle. There were approximately 100 eye witnessess to this senseless killing. One eye witness posted his account on an Internet message board shortly after the crime occurred. This person is willing to serve as a contact witness.

Thousands of people visit this forum every day and are now aware of this crime. I have alerted several other Internet groups to heighten the visibility of this case and a number of people have already contacted the local media (WTOP - DC's all news radio station - and the Washington Post.) The point I'm making is that this is soon to be a highly visible, highly volatile community issue and all eyes will be on how your office does (or does not) act on this report.

Here is the URL for the forum thread reporting this act of animal cruelty:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2111499#2112150

As I stated previously, the person who originated this thread has agreed to serve as a witness. I will have him send you his contact information. I would appreciate a reply email to confirm your receipt of this report of cruelty and a statement regarding what your intended actions will be in pursuing it.

Thank you,

XXXXX XXXX
Address: XXXX
Tel: XXXXX
Email: XXXX

[jollyreaper2112]

44. never trust a cop

Why did he shoot the dog? Because he's a pig. Does a pig ever need a reason?

Me <== never had a good experience with a cop

[Union Thug]

58. I have NEVER had a positive experience with a cop, either...

and you are right, never trust them no matter what the circumstance - EVER. Cops are all about authority and every action they take is calculated and about exercising that authority, by deception or by force.

...And I have two cops in my immediate family, and one that is aspiring to be one. I'm certainly not a stranger to the good folks of law enforcement!

[Ohio Joe]

129. Wow, I'm sorry for both of you

My experience with cops has been very different. I have met a few that were assholes but the overwhelming majority were really good people.

[misanthrope]

151. Well. 95% of the ones I've met...

...are rednecks with chips on their shoulders.

[bluerum]

45. Chicken $hit mutha-effin cop. What's the dog gonna do - piss on him?

[pitohui]

46. what's to figure out?

you have an irresponsible dog owner who got his dog killed by letting him run directly at a cop

no pity here, i had one friend who had to get a painful series of rabies shot, and a young neighbor boy severely mauled by a dog

if a dog is running right at you and you feel in danger, you have a right and indeed an obligation to do what you have to

the person who let the dog off leash in a public park killed that dog as surely as if he put the gun to the dog's head himself

do NOT do Not get another dog for such a person

i wonder how many people, esp. kids, the cop in question has seen injured by out-of-controlled dogs, probably more than he never needs to see

[kiahzero]

51. Do I get to shoot people that advance towards me too?

Nifty.

[pitohui]

54. if they're threatening your life -- absolutely

the right to self defense is absolute

my neighbor who was mauled was 9 years old

the dog had been threatening people off leash for weeks, including me, including my husband, if we had shot the dog or another neighbor had shot the dog a little boy would have been saved a horrible experience


i laughed at my husband's concern, as did local animal control

now we all have to live with it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. Except it wasn't self defense.

Apparently the prick wanted to shoot something.

[keepCAblue]

55. Wrong.

"If a dog is running right at you and you feel in danger, you have a right and indeed an obligation to do what you have to"

Wrong. Most civilized communities do not allow trigger-happy citizens to shoot at any loose dog they see, even if it is approaching them. If a person hates dogs and/or is afraid of them, they are likely to "perceive" EVERY dog they see as a threat (as in the case of this trigger-happy cop). One cannot justify shooting a dog just because it is running loose or is coming in their direction. Anyone who embraces such a wreckless disregard for animals or for the innocent bystanders who are potentially in the line of fire presents far more of a danger to our communities than does the dog he or she is all too eager to cold-heartedly kill.

[Recursion]

59. As I pointed out

I give a lot of leeway to a cop's decision on when to use deadly force to preserve life because, having been a Marine, I know the kind of split-second judgment you have to make. But the fact remains that from everything I could see, there was no way in hell I would have taken that shot given the crowd behind the dog. I mean, the animal cruelty is bad enough, but from my knowledge of firearms it appeared he was putting a lot of people at risk to take down a dog that frankly I did not perceive as a threat.

Now, as I've said a few times I want to hear the cop's of the story. I don't know why the cop was there: if he was responding to someone complaining that a dog was attacking them, that's one thing and I can see why he might go over the top. But he looked basically like the beat cops that tend to be in DuPont at rush hour -- and backup took about 3 minutes after he started talking into his radio; my guess is that if he had been called in backup would have already been approaching.

Anyways, I'm on pretty good terms with a lot of the homeless folks who hang out in the circle so I'm definitely going to be asking some questions tomorrow. Watch this space.

[Downtown Hound]

62. Good to see that you handle yourself maturely

and in an adult manner. Shoot first, at the slightest possibility of any danger. Yeah, what a great idea.

I can't tell you how grateful I am that there are people like you in the world. I sleep well at night knowing that whenever a dog is off his leash, he will be shot on sight. Excellent. What a relief.

:eyes:

[fudge stripe cookays]

82. You and me both.

But pretty much par for the course for this poster. Posts are mostly nasty and unnecessary.

Let's hope she never volunteers at a shelter. I'll sleep better at night.

[file83]

136. No doubt - if I shot every dog that approached me at the Park...

...I'd be a pretty unpopular guy in this city.

Who the fuck shoots a dog unless it is attacking someone? I'll tell you: a fucking coward.

[Susang]

84. Must have been a long time ago

As the rabies shot series are not painful any longer. This 2005 article give more information regarding the shots:

Many people believe that the rabies shots are extremely painful, but that is no longer true. Recent advancements with this vaccine have made the shots much more manageable. Treatment for possible rabies exposure now requires five shots of the vaccine (in the upper arm, spread over one month) along with two shots of human rabies immunoglobulin on the first day, one where the bite or scratch occurred and the other in the buttocks.

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtPrint/WSI/35320/35325/418890.html?d=dmtHMSContent&hide=t&k=basePrint

Rabies transmission to humans is extremely rare from dog to human anyway. Most rabies to human transmission in the US occurs from bat bites. You have a higher chance of being infected by a feral cat, skunk or racoon than a dog.

[Sterling]

104. I hope someone lets you off your leash

make sure you come in my direction when that happens.

[Rex]

146. I don't think it was that cut and dry.

Sounds like the cop kinda freaked out. I can understand if the dog was charging or stalking towards the cop. I wonder if he suffers from PTSD or was attacked by a dog as a kid. It happens.

[and-justice-for-all]

47. Sue.

[pitohui]

49. do NOT get this person another dog

sorry, he killed the dog as good as putting the gun to its head himself, i've known two people mauled by dogs off leash

no pity here for people who let dogs off leash in public places

they know somebody can get hurt, usually the dog, they just don't give a care

being homeless doesn't mean he gets to put other people in danger, the rules still apply to ALL

[kiahzero]

53. I'm more worried about the cop with the gun than the dog.

I really feel like a gunshot wound from a cop who doesn't seem to have a care about life (human or dog) is going to do more damage to me than a little dog.

[Vidar]

66. Your cop friend shoud have been on a leash.

[skygazer]

77. Yes, because every dog that is off leash is going to maul somebody

:sarcasm:

You're coloring this incident with your own experiences which are the aberration, not the norm. Dogs don't just run around attacking people all the time and this guy totally overreacted, judging from the details in the OP. "Shoot first and worry about the fallout later" is not a rational response.

[judaspriestess]

93. Wow, you sure do know alot of people who have issues

with dogs, what are the odds???

I am not a fan of pit bulls and if it was that type of dog then maybe I can see the response but not a skinny little dog who is about 10 feet away and you pull out a gun and shoot them in public.

Sounds like sick motherfucker hiding behind a badge. I hope he gets what he deserves and gets fired.

[pecwae]

126. No, of course a homeless person

has no right to a companion animal. :sarcasm: My guess is that you'd like to see this man do some time behind bars contemplating the error of his ways since he forced the cop to pull the trigger. Sometimes I am sincerely amazed at what I read here, but these kind of posts do serve a purpose; I know who to put on ignore.

[MountainLaurel]

50. Damn, right in the Circle?

:scared:

That dog could have been mine.

:cry:

[pitohui]

52. you let your dog run free in a crowded public park?

then do the dog a favor and give the animal to someone who is willing to keep him properly leashed in a place where the OP described there were 100 people around

i somehow doubt you would be that irresponsible tho, and the homeless guy don't get a pass on basic safety and common sense just for being homeless

i am tired of being terrorized by unleashed dogs in public places, people who care about other people, other animals, AND THEIR OWN DOG, simply don't allow this

[Recursion]

61. But lots of people unleash their dogs in the circle

I don't remember it being a problem before. And this wasn't some big mastiff or anything. Now, for all I know this dog attacked a baby or something and that's why the cop was there, but I just can't see what way the dog was a threat severe enough to justify this, especially given the risk that civilians were at behind the dog.

[file83]

138. What's your problem with dogs? I see dogs running loose playing frisbee

with their owners ALL THE TIME! Let me guess - you are from a culture that fears dogs. Am I right?

Be honest, because I grew up with dogs and they are simply NOT dangerous creatures. If you invade their home, they will defend. If you attack their owner, they will defend. Other than that, fucking relax and grow up. Dogs love to play with people in public areas.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

140. And then there's the poster below...

who just shoots pit bulls, rottweilers and other breeds he doesn't like on sight. There's some sick, twisted people around, who should be ashamed of themselves.

[alstephenson]

148. Letting a dog off a leash may be a misdemeanor and reason for a ticket

but not a reason to EXECUTE the dog. WTF?

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. This is so sad. The one ray of light in the whole mess is

you, hon. :hug: Bless you for looking for a way to help this poor guy out.

[astonamous]

57. As a former resident of DC

It will be difficult to do anything about the cop, especially the way things seem to be these days. The homeless guy won't be able to adopt, but I have put a call out to my rescue contacts to see what we can come up with.

I have bookmarked this thread and will get back to you if I find a solution or any other ideas.

Trudy
www.pryorsplanet.com

[wicket]

63. Story at the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/11/AR2006091101440.html

[EnviroBat]

75. Yes, this animal looks terrifying...

Stupid f*ing cops!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

76. I think the white pit bulls are so pretty.

I almost adopted a deaf one with blue eyes awhile back, but he had already found a home. His stupid owners were giving him up, because they decided they didn't want a deaf dog anymore (allegedly he was already trained with hand signals & everything).

[never_get_over_it]

78. This story doesn't sound too much like the OP post

for example any truth that the officer asked this homeless guy Joe to put the dog back on the leash?

[Recursion]

81. I only noticed him once the yelling started

I would not be at all surprised if the officer had asked the guy to leash his dog (they're always having to ask people to leash their dogs in the circle). What did surprise me was the claim that the dog was "charging" the officer; the dog was backing away from him.

[never_get_over_it]

83. Covering their butts no doubt - eom

[tom_paine]

65. Senseless cruelty on the rise in Imperial Amerika

and no wonder. I have no doubt the same has happened in other nations from history that have transitioned from liberty and constitutional governance, to totalitarian authoritarianism (no matter how much window dressing gussies it up).

Like is happening here, in Imperial Amerika.

[RumpusCat]

69. Hey, my parents and I walked right past that!

After the fact--they're visiting me here in DC and I we had come up out of the Dupont Circle metro and were on our way to get dinner when we saw the crowd and the police tape. At first my mom thought it was a dead child under the blanket! Then the police pulled the blanket back to do something with the dog and we saw what it was. I'm glad to know the backstory--we were trying to guess at what had happened over dinner!

That poor dog, and the poor fellow who loved him. :cry:

[deaniac21]

70. There is no cordite in centerfire pistol ammunition of any brand.

[Recursion]

71. Not one for shorthand are you?

The smell is actually the burnt CLP/oil/lubricant, along with (possibly) primer.

[deaniac21]

72. Don't they teach Marines to remove all lubricant from the

barrel and reciever before firing? If not it will cake up in the breech of the weapon causing jamming.

[Recursion]

73. No

They taught us to never fire dry, and to brush off the the singed bits after every shooting.

[me b zola]

85. You're still here?

[deaniac21]

127. No

[Ishoutandscream2]

74. God, so heartbreaking

Just so sad, and terrible.

[PhilYerHead]

79. Find your way to Camp Democracy, on the mall right by the

Washington Monument. There are a number of people you will find there, including many veterans. More info at www.campdemocracy.org

Peace

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. Report his ass.

He shouldn't be on the force.

[me b zola]

87. Heartbreaking

Please don't listen to the hysterics of one poster who is "terrorized" by dogs. The guy who lost his dog lost his best friend, after it sounds like he has already lost everything else. If you help to get Mark another dog I'll be glad to chip in for vet costs, just pm me.

Thanks, dmesg, for being an over-all great guy. :hug:

[keepCAblue]

89. Police denied slain dog medical treatment--vet at scene restrained

Two independent reports from eye witnesses posted that the dog was made to suffer for 20-40 minutes at the hands of the DC police. A vet at the scene was restrained by the DC police and denied any attempt to provide medical care/humane euthanasia for the slain dog:

**************

A friend called this morning to tell me about this -- she was there when it happened. Even more horrifying than the events related in the article was the fact that the police restrained a veterinarian from treating Precious, leaving her to suffer until she died -- fully twenty minutes after she was shot, according to my friend. Leaving aside the motive behind the shooting which the report indicates was dubious, restraining the vet from treating the injured dog and thereby ensuring maximum suffering is barbarism and should be prosecuted under the Districts animal cruelty laws. Stacey Young, District of Columbia (By styoung | Sep 12, 2006 12:50:24 PM)

***********

I was there too - the article fails to mention that Park Police forced Precious to suffer for nearly forty minutes before allowing the veterinarians who were waiting nearby to euthanize her. One vet was forcibly restrained by the police. I saw Precious lying on her side, bleeding and heaving. Forty minutes later, they finally let a vet through, but Precious had apparently bled to death already. It was wrong to shoot the dog in the first place, given that she was motionless and had a gentle disposition. The penalty for violating the leash law is a ticket, not a death sentence. The initial wrongdoing was only compounded by the willful denial of euthanasia. This is absolutely intolerable and the Park Police should update their policies. (By ethaneddy | Sep 12, 2006 1:24:35 PM)

***********

Unlike most of the people who are commenting on this page, I actually saw this entire incident occur. The dog WAS NOT behaving agressively and WAS NOT charging the officer. I watched the officer pull out his gun, aim and fire at the dog while the dog was 6-8 feet away from him. Officer Assmussen should be fired. (By ewelty | Sep 12, 2006 11:01:37 AM)

***********

This is absolutely messed up. Ive met Precious many times, and she was completely harmless. I hope the media dont let this drop. By PSUPaulie | Sep 12, 2006 11:13:20 AM |

[judaspriestess]

97. Please don't let this bully crime go unpunished

this asshole needs to be fired. I am on the verge of crying. This is so fucked up!! Those poor vets who had to be restrained. and for you I am so sorry you witnessed that.

[anarch]

122. in all fairness to the MPD, this guy seems to have been a Park Police

officer. Not the same thing. What an asshole...I hope he gets totally reamed for this.

[Recursion]

123. Yeah, he was USPP

White blouse, dark trousers. DCPD in blue showed up about 3 minutes later. They're the ones who made the cordon that kept the vet out.

[anarch]

125. in that case, I retract my statement in their defense

That just sucks. I don't have anything against cops in general, but they certainly seem to have more than their fair share of total assholes on the force. I've been threatened by MPD cops for looking at them the wrong way (as one was harassing some woman...threatened to arrest me), hassled on numerous occasions by the Uniformed Secret Service people...never had any run-ins with the Park Police, but if this dickhead is any indication of how they act, then I never ever want to.

It's amazing, with all the different police agencies in this town, and now the "anti-crime cameras" too, that the place is still as completely fucked up as it is in some neighborhoods. And meanwhile, the cops are shooting dogs in parks. That's just great. :mad:

[keepCAblue]

90. Dog-killer cop's name is Mark N. Asmussen.

Posted on the WaPo article page:

Mark N. Asmussen - he was new on the force in 2005. Thats the guy.

By achilli | Sep 12, 2006 1:10:51 PM |

[Sterling]

106. More on Mark?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:7baHzRvPq3cJ:www.nps.gov/uspp/USPPIFINAL2.pdf+Mark+N.+Asmussen&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=10
what an asshole. Can this guy plz get fired for this? I really don't feel safe with this dickwad owning a fire arm of any kind.

[keepCAblue]

112. bad link ...eom

[libhill]

91. Don't cops in D.C.

have better things to do than killing dogs?

[Synnical]

94. Wonkette - First, They Shot Our Friendly Dogs For No Apparent Reason

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/dogs/first-they-shot-our-friendly-dogs-for-no-apparent-reason-200102.php

Dupont Circle got a grim preview of the new America — constant war against everything all the time — when the beloved pet of a friendly street preacher was murdered, execution style, in front of horrified residents.

. . .

A peaceful late-summer afternoon at the park had become a blood-soaked scene of screaming chaos. The government assassins claimed Precious “aggressively ran toward the officer.”

Wonkette operatives say the crazed cop was screaming and the dog — like everybody else hanging around the fountain — simply directed its attention to the government madman.

. . .

The real cause of the murder seems to be this: A power-mad federal cop told Texas Joe to put Precious on a leash, and when the harmless homeless man didn’t jump fast enough for the cop, the cop shot Precious dead.

[libhill]

98. That ass clown

should be fired, and banned from ever working in law enforcement again.

[BlooInBloo]

96. lol! A pit bull charges someone.... and he shoots the charging dog...

... and you guys all chant in unision "What an asshole!"

LOLOL!

You guys slay me!

:rofl:

[Recursion]

99. Except it wasn't a pit bull, and wasn't charging

It was an American Bulldog ("pit bull" tends to mean "large American Bull Terrier that scares whoever is describing it) and the dog wasn't charging anyone.

I don't care what the article says, I was 10 feet away and the dog was not charging or menacing anyone.

[BlooInBloo]

111. (shrug) Maybe there wasn't a dog at all? Or even a park?

I take it you're saying that the WaPo got the story 100% wrong?

(It certainly wouldn't be the first time - lol!)

It's certainly the case that my remarks were based on what the newspaper reported. If that's 100% then so too are my remarks.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

114. Read the WaPo comments for more witness testimony.

It lines up with what the OP witnesses. Also, these police refused to allow the dog veterinary treatment, even though there was a vet there and instead let the dog suffer for 20-40 minutes before it bled to death. The police should be held on animal cruelty for that alone.

So yeah, it looks like WaPo talked to the cop but didn't talk to any of the actual third-party witnesses, who all testified that the dog was not charging and that he was a friendly dog.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

115. You know...

If I'd have to choose between an eye-witness and a WaPo story that's based on heresay from a police spokesperson, I'd go with the witness.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

117. And there are multiple eyewitnesses that gave testimony in the WaPo

comments. Their story lines up with the OP. The police even refused the dog vet care and let it suffer for 20-40 minutes as it bled to death, even though there were vets on site.

[libhill]

103. Cover up -

n/t

[Sterling]

105. You must really hate dogs.

I find people who hate/fear dogs are usually very bad people.

[BlooInBloo]

113. That's amazing! I find people who idiotically ascibe dog-hatred...

... to non-dog-haters without any reason whatsoever have small penises!

I love fictional correlations! What a fun game!

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

116. Maybe.

But it seems to me that people have a good reason to ascribe dog-hatred to people who shoot dogs for no good reason, and those who defend them.

I'm also going to assume you've got something against DUers in general, and have a real boner for authority.

[BlooInBloo]

118. You're welcome to assume anything you like...

... no matter how foolish. Oddly enough, that's one thing that can make this country great.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

119. You haven't given me any reason...

to assume it was the wrong assumption.

[BlooInBloo]

120. LOL! As if anything said by a person...

... who is ok with shooting a charging-at-you pitbull could say could possibly change your mind!

There's no point.

And I've already provided the standard disclaimer in my 1st or 2nd post here. No need for me to repeat it - no matter how many times you all disregard it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. Ah, but there's the rub.

It wasn't charging.

[Recursion]

124. The dog wasn't charging

She was off her leash, which was unlawful, but she was not attacking anyone or charging, and her owner was not very far from her.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[negativenihil]

101. wtf?! that's terrible... n/t

[madmusic]

107. Mr Bojangles – Robbie Williams

I knew a man Bojangles and he’ll dance for you
in worn out shoes.
With silver hair, a ragged shirt and baggy pants,
he would do the old soft shoe.
He would jump so high - jump so high, and then lightly touch down.

He told me of a time he worked with, With the Minstrel shows,
travelling throughout the south,
Spoke with tears for fifteen years how his, how his dog and him
they would travel about
But his dog up and died. Part of him died, after twenty years he still grieves

He said, "I dance now at every chance in honky tonks
for my drinks and tips.
But most of the time I, spend behind these county bars
you see son I, I drinks a bit."
Then he shook his head. Oh Lord when he shook his head,
I could swear I heard someone say please, please

[TahitiNut]

175. I named my black labrador retriever "Bojangles" in honor of this song.

... and of Bill Bojangles Robinson, a fabulous dancer whose 'set dance' I've enjoyed dozens and dozens of times in my life. (Shirley Temple is mere 'noise' in that scene.)



"Bo" - March 1977 to November 1989
(I'll Miss Him Forever)

[noonwitch]

110. The guy needs housing, first.

No agency like the ASPCA is going to give a dog to a homeless guy who can't afford to take care of it.

Mark needs to find an income and a place to live, and, if he's been homeless for a while, he probably needs some help with counseling and such. Homeless people see and go through a lot on the streets, and many are suffering from an underlying mental illness or substance abuse problem. Maybe there's a local social service agency, church, or Salvation Army program that can help him out.

[Kolesar]

128. Peace and good luck to you &the Texas preacher

This all makes me feel pretty sick, too.

[rateyes]

131. The Humane Society took the police chief in our town

in VA to court for shooting a dog, not killing it, then beating it with his billy club, and driving off. My wife went to the dog, and it was still alive. She went back in the house and called me, and before I got there the chief had arrived, picked up the dog and put it in the back of a truck. When we called and asked why he did it, he said that the dog was a nuisance (not) and that he only had one shell for the shotgun he used (a .410), and that he was beating the dog to put it out of its misery (when in fact, the dog was still breathing when he left).

My wife wrote a letter to the editor re-telling the event, asking if the chief's name was "One-bullet Barney Fife?" The humane society subpoenaed us to testify at his trial. (Which was a farce...good old boy system.) Thing is, the Animal control officer lived right across the street from where the shooting took place and was home at the time.

Asshat.

[Joanne98]

132. They do it cause they're PRICKS! No other reason!

[libhill]

133. Actually -

they do it because they're fascist assholes with over inflated egos - "Look at me, I'm a macho man, I have the badge of power and the gun of authority"... sorry, but I'm reaching the point that I can't stand cops. The police in this country are out of control, and overly militarized.

[file83]

135. I'd love to hear the cops BS version of his story in the report....

..."I saw this baby rolling in the grass and this 180 pound dog ran up, growling and foaming at the mouth. The dog was about to kill the child. Luckily and thanks to my excellent arms training by Sgt. Riker, I drew my weapon, gave the dog a verbal warning, and fired on the suspect. There were no people in the field of fire - I made sure of that. There were no witnesses to this event. End of story."

Or some such shit.

[Xithras]

137. My concern ended once I read Pit Bull.

He let a pit bull off its leash in a park with more than 100 people in it according to both you and the articles. The dog in the photo is NOT an American Bulldog, it's an American Pit Bull Terrier. The guy was insane to let a dog like that loose in a park, and the officer was correct to shoot it if the owner wouldn't leash it when ordered to (that's the one point that needs clarification...did the owner really refuse to leash it?) The officers duty was to protect the people in the park...if the dog wasn't leashed, he was a serious danger.

Pit bulls have killed more than 60 people in this country since 1980, and have viciously mauled hundreds more. Even worse, there are countless stories of "peaceful and friendly" pit bulls suddenly turning on their owners and families, and nobody is quite sure why. They can't be trusted, and the breed should be banned from both breeding and ownership.

I live in the country, and unfortunately have to shoot several dogs a year. Typically, they're abandoned out here by their city owners, they turn feral, and then begin attacking livestock when they get hungry. I've SEEN the kind of damage a pit bull or rottweiler can do, and I don't take chances with them. If I see a lab or some other type of breed, I'll usually try to approach it first to see if it's feral yet (once an animal goes wild, they lose the ability to live with humans permanently). If it's friendly, I'll pen it for animal control. If it's wild, I'll shoot it to protect our livestock. I NEVER approach pit bulls, rottweilers, or similar breeds. I drop them the moment I see them.

And yes, it's perfectly legal to kill feral dogs to protect livestock. Feral dogs are legally considered pests, and can be shot like any other predator to protect the life of another animal.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

139. The dog wasn't threatening the officer or anyone else.

If you read the comments at the article, you'll see that more witnesses posted their story and it fits with the OPs version. They knew the dog and it was a friendly dog.

The fact that you shoot pits, rotts, etc on site is just sickening and pure ignorance.

[Xithras]

143. "Friendly" pit's have killed many people in this country.

Generally speaking, no dog should ever be off leash in an public urban environment EVER, because any dog can bite. Anyone who believes that their dog will never bite anyone, ever, for any reason, is simply delusional. If you want to take your chances in your home, that's fine (I have several dogs of my own), but in public you have NO RIGHT to expose other people to danger. If he's homeless, he should have either found a fenced pet park, or should have given the dog up. Pit bulls are especially dangerous and need to be guarded especially closely (the statistic's don't lie...pit bulls make up about 2% of the dog population in America, and yet are responsible for over 20% of mauling fatalities). Even if the dog didn't charge the cop the simple fact that it was off its leash was a danger to the cop and the other people in the park.

FWIW, it's not ignorance that makes me shoot these dogs. Urban people don't typically have any clue about how dangerous feral dogs can be...most of the dogs I shoot would rip your throat out and eat YOU if given the chance. Feral dogs have generally reverted back to their ancestral wolf instincts, and have lost both their fear and respect of man. They see us as just another animal. Feral rottweilers and pit bulls are especially dangerous because their size and power make them especially deadly to people or animals getting attacked. One of my neighbors lost a horse to a feral pit bull two years ago...it charged the horse, tore its belly open, and started eating its guts before the horse was even dead. When the owner came out with his rifle, the dog instantly charged him as if he were another predator coming to take his kill. That dog died before it closed half the distance.

I try to give the dogs that wander onto my property a chance. If they seem friendly, I'm more than willing to send them to animal control where some family might adopt them. But rottweilers and pit bulls? They're simply too dangerous. I don't have a large piece of property (only a few acres), so most of my interaction with these animals is at fairly short range. If a pit bull were feral, it could probably close range and hit me before I had a chance to ready the shot. That's not a chance I can take, so wild pit bulls get shot on sight. It's not ignorance, it's safety. My 2 year old plays out there, I'm NOT going to play nice with wild dogs from breeds that are PROVEN to be more dangerous and potentially lethal.

[flvegan]

157. First, I'll ask for a link to back your shit up.

Then, I'm going to ask about your statement that you "shoot these dogs"

Challenge...pick up the gauntlet. I double motherfucking dare you...

Better be ready to throw the fuck down, too...

[keepCAblue]

141. More pit bull hysteria from a trigger-happy yahooligan

This dog was not feral or vicious. She (Precious) was a regular fixture to Dupont Circle; many residents there knew her and attested to her friendly, gentle nature.

"Pit bulls have killed more than 60 people in this country since 1980, and have viciously mauled hundreds more."

When citing sensationalistic "facts," such as that above, please be kind enough to include your source. I, for one, would be very interested in where you obtained your numbers.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

142. And one thing to keep in mind about dog bite statistics...

by Pit Bull they mean any dog which someone even remotely declares to be a pit bull, regardless of the dog's actual breed. Most people don't even know what an American Pit Bull Terrier really looks like. It's also one of the highest scoring breeds on the American Temperment Test ranking as better than Goldens and so-called "safe" breeds.

God, these anti-pit/rott/whatever the current evil breed is people piss me off to no end.

[Xithras]

144. My cite? How about the CDC

http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/m0047723/m0047723.asp

Numbers do not lie.

[keepCAblue]

153. Classic example of citing data without providing context or analysis

Unfortunately, uninformed lay people are often all too quick to cite data without applying critical analysis or offering context.

The reason the CDC data displays "pit bulls" in quotation marks is because this term is being used (albeit incorrectly) to lump several breeds of dogs together (APBT, AST, SBT, Bull Terrier, English Bulldog, American Bulldog, etc.), resulting in an exaggeration of the number of bites/maulings falsely attributed to the American Pit Bull Terrier.

It should also be noted that "pit bulls" are the most often misidentified breed(s) by the victims, medical professionals and law enforcement authorities reporting dog bites and fatal attacks -- further contributing to the need to encase the term "pit bulls" within quotation marks.

In terms of context, there's the issue of "skewed" data ("skewing of the data" is taught in every introductory statistics course, an area of study apparently foreign to Xithras). How is the CDC data skewed? In two ways--I've already discussed the first, i.e., lumping several breeds together under one class, "pit bulls." The second manner in which data can--and in this case, IS--skewed is in the relative popularity of one breed compared to another. Fact: In terms of population numbers, The APBT is THE most popular breed of dog in the U.S. When you add to their already high numbers the five or six other breeds that get lumped together with APBTs in the CDC data, the overall population numbers of "pit bulls" becomes even more exaggerated. When one breed or class greatly out-numbers any other breed or class, obviously that breed or class will be overly represented in the data, skewing the results. Such data, in order to be validated, must be normalized against the populations of all other breeds. The data compiled by the CDC and cited by Xithra is not normalized and thus CANNOT be reliably used to draw conclusions regarding relative viciousness of one breed over another.

Data on pit bulls may be skewed by popularity

Soooo, to counter Xithra's claim that "numbers do not lie": Yes, they can and do LIE when the person spouting them is doing so without thought or conscience.

By the way, the American Pit Bull Terrier, at the turn of the 20th century, was considered the #1 family dog in America, and the most decorated war dog -- honored for the hundreds of soldiers' lives he saved during WWII -- was (drum roll please) a "pit bull."

"Pit Bulls," when raised by responsible guardians, can and do make outstanding family pets, and there are thousands of wonderful, loving and gentle Pitties serving today as therapy dogs and service dogs for the disabled, as well as those working in law enforcement as top notch drug and bomb detection dogs.

[Xithras]

160. A breeder?

You must be to spout that line of BS.

First, the reason that pit bulls are in parentheses is the fact that the majority of "pit bulls" owned in America today are actually mixed breed part-pit mutts. People who dispute these numbers seemingly only want to count them as pit bulls if they're UKC registered American Pit Bull Terriers that have been genetically confirmed to descend from authorized parent populations. They then turn around and further dispute the numbers by claiming that the numbers are skewed because pit bulls are the most popular dog in America...a claim that ONLY holds up if you count ALL of those partial and mixed pit bull's that were so quickly dismissed in the first claim (according to the UKC, only a relatively small number of the dogs are registered). In many parts of the country, pit mixes make up more than 20% of the animals euthanized by local animal shelters (source: ASPCA). Speaking of the ASPCA, even THEY don't advise keeping pit bulls around children or other animals because of their proven aggressive tendencies...and you can hardly call the ASPCA an anti-dog organization.

As for the numbers being skewed by popularity, that's simply a hard call to make since surveys are inconsistent and localized. Still, some inferences can be made from the numbers that are known. More than a quarter of the attacks according to the CDC study are attributable to pit bulls, pit mixes, and closely related breeds. Are you claiming that pit bulls comprise a quarter of the American dog population? If not, they are statistically more likely to bite. In the book Animals in Translation, the author cited CDC statistics showing that in 1997 and 1998, Pit bull mixes and rottweilers were together responsible for 67% of all fatal dog bites. Are you going to claim that Pit Bull related breeds and rottweilers comprise more than 67% of the dog population? According to VetMed Today, September 15, 2000, between 1978 and 1998 more than half of fatal dog maulings are attributable to pit bulls and rottweilers. Are you willing to even peg their percentage of the dog population at this much lower number? If you do make that claim, your beliefs contradict those studies that HAVE been done. A 2004 survey by Animal People News (a northwestern animal advocacy magazine) found that Pit Bulls compromise about 5% of the American dog population (a statistically large group given the number of breeds in the US and the number of mixed breed dogs that cannot be identified with any particular breed). HappyPitBull.Com, a pit bull advocacy site, cites unidentified claims that Pit Bulls (including mixes) may comprise up to 8% of the American dog population (as a percentage, the numbers are far higher in urban areas, and they tend to be rarer in rural ones). The American Canine Foundation, in turn, cites the highest number on the web...they claim that an astounding 9.6% of the American dog population is American Pit Bull Terrier, pit mix, or a closely related breed commonly identified as pit bull.

9.6% of the dogs (including breeds identified as pits which actually aren't). More than 25% of the fatalities. You tell me where those statistics are lying.

And lest you make the false assumption that I'm some kind of redneck: I'm a part-time college professor teaching logic and computer science, I own a moderately successful IT company, and I only live on a ranch because I happen to enjoy raising and riding horses and wanted to escape the urban lifestyle. I hold degrees from both UoP and UC Berkeley, and I've instructed in an adjunct capacity at both Sacramento State and SFSU. You know those jokes the freepers like to toss around about wealthy elitist California liberals? They're talking about people like ME. Don't make the mistake of pigeonholing me as some kind of uneducated, backward, slack-jawed yokel simply because I live in the country and own a rifle.

I shoot dogs because they kill horses and sheep, not because I enjoy doing it. You want to place blame for that? Place it on the irresponsible urban dog owners who can't handle their pets and dump them in the country to "set them free" when they're incapable of caring for them any longer. Do you know what happens to a domestic dog when it's suddenly faced with starvation? I do. I've seen it. I've seen animals killed by them, and talked to people bitten by them. Dogs are social creatures, and both wolves and dogs raised in wild packs generally have social and behavioral norms imposed on them by their pack. Domestic dogs never had that kind of training and pack hunting socialization, so when they begin to "hunt" for food they simply attack anything and everything they can in the hopes that SOMETHING will die for them. A dumped feral dog is FAR more dangerous to people and livestock than either naturally feral dogs OR wolves. A pack of dumped feral dogs on a country road is one of the most dangerous things a human being can run into. Do you expect those of us who live out here to simply tolerate the damage these animals cause? Or maybe you think we should call animal control (hint: Animal control shoots the dogs with a tranq gun, takes them in, and euthanizes them anyway...feral dogs aren't adoptable).

Now that I think about it, I don't know why I'm even arguing this with you. Pit bull ownership is an affair of the heart...you guys love your dogs, and no statistic is going to change that. I can respect that, and I understand that no numbers or statistics are ever going to convince you that they are dangerous. You can keep your pit, just keep it the hell away from me and my kids.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

163. Now this is what the ASPCA *actually* says about Pit Bulls...

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pets_pitbull

Breed Characteristics of Pit Bulls
Pit bulls were genetically selected for their fighting prowess. What does this mean? What it doesn’t mean is that pit bulls can’t be around other dogs or that they are unpredictably aggressive, or that they will fight to the death. What it does mean is that pit bulls can easily be encouraged to be aggressive toward other dogs or, to put it another way, it takes less to arouse a pit bull than many other breeds to be aggressive toward other dogs.
<snip>
The Pit Bull’s Bad Reputation
Sadly, pit bulls have acquired a reputation as unpredictable, dangerous, and vicious. Their intimidating appearance has made them attractive to the wrong sorts of owner—people who are looking for a macho dog and end up encouraging aggressive behavior. In order to meet the growing demand for pit bulls, unscrupulous and uncaring breeders are producing puppies without maintaining the breed’s typical reliability with people. In fact, pit bulls are now notorious for redirecting aggression from a dog to any person who attempts to break up a fight. It is a shame what has happened to this loyal and affectionate breed.

Having said all that, we must tell you that a well-bred, well-socialized, and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable. Some of the most famous dogs in American history were pit bulls: Stubby, the most decorated United States war dog; Petey, the beloved mascot from Little Rascals, and Helen Keller’s faithful companion. Additionally, many pit bulls were featured in well-known advertising campaigns, such as Buster Brown shoes and Levis. The majority of pit bulls are still ambassadors for their breed, serving as loving companions, family members, and therapy dogs, working in search and rescue, narcotics and explosives detection, and police and sentry duty. Unfortunately, we often hear more about the exceptions than the rule.

What Pit Bulls Need
If you have, or are thinking of adopting, a pit bull, please ensure that you can provide the following:
- Plenty of early socialization with dogs and with people, beginning as young as seven weeks of age and continuing into adulthood.
- Training, starting with Puppy Kindergarten and progressing through Basic and Advanced Obedience. We highly recommend continued guidance throughout the dog’s life.
- Neutering or spaying--there are already too many pit bulls and not enough homes for them.
- Lots of daily exercise! Pit bulls are high-energy athletes!
- Honest and constant attention to the behavior of the dog. Questionable behavior can never be excused, and must be addressed immediately through training/retraining, and/or management

So in light of the public statement on Pit Bulls from the ASPCA that I have provided, do you have any concrete citation to back up this claim?

"Speaking of the ASPCA, even THEY don't advise keeping pit bulls around children or other animals because of their proven aggressive tendencies..."

[Xithras]

164. Yep, another link from the ASPCA

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=cruelty_pitbull

Thinking About Adopting a Pit Bull?

- Aggression to other dogs is a serious issue with this breed. Early socialization is essential for pit puppies, though your best efforts may not override a dog's genetics. Regardless of early experience, some pits will become dog-aggressive when they reach maturity. A pit bull who doesn't like other dogs cannot be let loose in dog runs or other public places. Some are also dangerous around cats, so please choose carefully if you have other pets.

- Due to their strength and exuberance, pit bulls are best placed with families with older children.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

166. "Strength and exuberance" have nothing to do with aggression.

Many shelters use that term to describe large dogs of any breed and only adopt them to families with older children, regardless of the dog's personality. Also, they don't say not to keep them with other pets, but rather just to do it responsibly. Many pit bulls live in many pet households just fine.

[keepCAblue]

167. wrong again.

For one so edjamacated, you're batting zero so far.

I'm a staunch advocate of s/n, not just for pits, but for all breeds of both dogs and cats. Controlling the numbers of unwanted pets will surely serve to save many unfortunate animals from suffering cruel, inhumane deaths--such as that suffered by Precious and those you, yourself, have executed.

You are working very hard to twist and confuse the issue at hand. You can holler, scream and stamp your feet all you want in justifying your shooting packs of wild dogs and fearsome feral pits, but such justifications have no relevance in the shooting death of Precious. Precious was neither a feral pit nor a member of a ravenous pack. She was not "charging" anybody nor was she exhibiting aggression. Enough eye witnesses have corroborated this as to render it indisputable.

The seething venom you've spewed toward a single breed of dog is all too familiar; such is the venom of those who used to dress in white sheets and burn crosses on people's lawns. The "justifications" for hatred and violence of those people were not unlike your own, spewing manipulated and meaningless statistics to prove the inferior intelligence or inherent criminality of a marginalized race. With regards to mentality, breed discrimination is not so very different from racial prejudice or religious intolerance or gay bashing. Yup, you're in awfully good company.

[Xithras]

174. *I* didn't twist it!

I don't like pit bulls or any similar breeds, because I've seen the damage they can do. I simply pointed out that I don't care for these dogs, and that I have to occasionally put them down because they're a danger where I live. I've read both sides of the argument, have reviewed the numbers, have seen animals killed by them, and have seen photos of people attacked by them (check Ogrish). It was others who attacked ME, acting like I'm some kind of cold blooded killer who gets off on gunning down every Benji who wanders on to his property. My defense of shooting feral animals wasn't about Precious, it was about defending MYSELF from accusations that I'm some kind of monster for doing so.

As for the rest of it, I can only conclude that you're unfamiliar with my past posts in which my sexuality has been discussed numerous times. If you had read them, you'd understand why comparing me to a gay basher is so humorous.

Humans are inherently equal because our brains, irregardless of race, are of equal size and relative composition. We all have the same feelings, the same desires. Animals aren't the same way. Some animals are naturally aggressive (which is why we don't keep wolves as pets). Dogs were created by humans by culling violent wolves and only permitting the gentler ones to breed. Repeating this process over generations eventually deactivated the parts of the wolf brain which caused aggression (evolution in action). However, not all dog breeds were equally domesticated. Some dogs were bred specifically for use in warfare and as guards. These breeds were permitted to remain somewhat aggressive. Other breeds were designed for use as pets, and in these dogs aggression wasn't tolerated. Other breeds were created for hunting, and in those dogs intelligence and obedience were bred in...and violence bred out. This is the reality of the dog world, and it's why some breeds bite and attack more than others. If understanding that makes me equal to the KKK in your eyes, I really don't know how to respond. I deal in facts, figures, and numbers. That's how my brain works. You say the facts are discriminitory, and I say that facts are facts. If we can't even agree on that, we're not even debating the same thing.

[flvegan]

159. And being a personal friend of someone very close to that study

I'd suggest that you ask them what the hell a "pit bull" is. Get your definition, cry over it, then bring it back here.

I'll wait...

[flvegan]

158. Let me introduce shit to you, since you don't know it....

Pit bull? Prove this dog was a pit. You can't and neither can they. I saw the picture, and that, my dear friend isn't.

Sounds to me like someone has a bit of a gun v. dog fetish. Tell you what, as one that rescues bully-breed dogs from dipshits all over this fine land (you might find kin there)...howsabout you v me. Let's talk about it, debate it, break it down. That's right...challenge...

There's the gauntlet. Pick it up...

[Xithras]

165. see # 160

No rednecks in my family, friend. See #160, it explains my position better.

BTW, the feral dogs I'm forced to shoot are typically there because of the same dipshits you're rescuing them from. Sadly, you can't get them all. Some get abandoned in the countryside, go completely wild, and leave us little choice but to put them down. I don't enjoy shooting dogs, but I don't enjoy shooting gutted horses or ravaged sheep to put them out of their misery either. That's what feral dogs do around here, and it's why they have to be put down. It has nothing to do with a gun fetish.

[ForrestGump]

171. Hello, everyone

Now, I don't know about pit bulls -- I'd be wary of the beasts (good idea with dogs, in general, given that they are inherently social animals with hierarchical tendencies that could get out of whack through cues that we don't perceive) but I'm prepared to believe that the threat is overstated -- but what Xithras says about feral dogs is right on. I'd hate to have to shoot one, all the same, but I don't condemn him for doing so when it is necessary. I'd be worried if he claimed to enjoy it, or if he blasted away indiscriminately at every stray dog in the neighborhood, but that's not the case.

Feral dogs can be scary animals. It's something that most Americans, this being an overwhelmingly urban country, never have to deal with or think about. I grew up in the boonies and out there the threat from feral dogs is very real. It's not their fault -- it's the pigs who dump them (some run away, or otherwise get cut off from their humans, but most are probably dumped) -- but that really doesn't change the facts of their being there, wreaking some degree of havoc.

One of the most elementally horrible things I've yet seen was a pack of feral dogs turning on one of its own. It was also one of the most horrible things I've heard...

I think this whole discussion Xithras provokes needs to be split into separate arguments: one about the alleged innate danger of pit pulls and one about feral dogs running wild, and it's abundantly clear that neither has anything much to do with what happened to Precious in DC.

[proud patriot]

145. I'm sorry that you had to see that

I wonder if the local Humane Society would be interested in
knowing what happened .

:hug:

[keepCAblue]

155. The Washington Humane Society has been alerted...

I and others have sent the Washington H.S. emails urging some sort of action--I have also sent this to the national office (HSUS) as well as the ASPCA and Pasado Safe Haven (they're the org that is funding the investigation into the horrific school house shootings of all those Katrina dogs.

Alas, to date, not one response from any of them. On the brighter side, a large group of dogster.com members are rallying together to push for some sort of punitive action against Officer Mark N. Asmussen.

[proud patriot]

176. good to hear

:hi:

[greiner3]

147. According to psycological tests, the MMPI in particular;

Cops and career criminals sharethe same personality traits. They just have them in a slightly different order. Not a job I'd want or refer anybody I cared anything about to. Cops do what they think they have to do and I steer clear of them.

[misanthrope]

149. In a moment of fantasy...

...I'd like to imagine someone taking the officer down and using his own gun to blow his little piggie balls across the sidewalk, then stand and laugh as he bled to death. But that's just me.

[keepCAblue]

154. You are not alone. eom

[Spirochete]

152. The cop must have forgotten

to taser the homeless guy to death for letting his dog off the leash.

[Ahpook]

156. The Circle..

has changed so much since i was last there.

[smtpgirl]

162. Yep, the cop shot a white pit bull

maybe someone should have shot the cop

[Brian Stevens]

169. Depending on state law

Where I use to come from, it is illegal to keep and take those kind of dogs in city limits because the state listed Pit bulls as an agressive animal (not the only breed).

[keepCAblue]

170. What Breed Am I? (A quiz for self-professed experts)

This little quiz is for both hobbyists and *advanced* academics like Xithras, who appears to be an *expert* on identifying pit bulls (post #137: "The dog in the photo is NOT an American Bulldog, it's an American Pit Bull Terrier.")

Of the 15 photos found in the below link, how many can you correctly identify as an American Pit Bull Terrier?

What Breed Am I

BONUS POINTS! Based on the fifteen representative photos found at the above link, can you identify what breed Precious (pictured below) is most likely to be?

Precious:



*************************

[slackmaster]

173. Ugly

Do i get a bizkit?

[slackmaster]

172. AHEM - They're not called "dogs" any more

The proper term is "Canine-Americans".

http://www.animalagalliance.org/email/HSUS_091106.cfm

HTH