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Ladyinblack Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:08 AM
Original message
911 incompetence or something more sinister
The more I know about 911 and these years since, the more I wonder what the cover up is about. Is it about gross incompetence or something much more sinister?
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh Dear
Are you really going to invite this discussion? ;-)
:popcorn:
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Benfea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm a big believer in Hanlon's Razor.
Hanlon's Razor: never assume evil intent when stupidity or incompetence are sufficient to explain events.

The Bush administration has shown itself to be staggeringly incompetent time and time again. I cannot believe that they would be capable of pulling off any sort of conspiracy of such massive scope and complexity.
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Blackthorn Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. This is most staggeringly naive thing I have ever read.
This Administration has run everything to plan. They planned to use a faked terrorist attack to instigate multiple theatres of war in the Middle East, aiming for regional instability to the point of full blown war.

Personally, when you fuck EVERYTHING up, you're past incompetence, you're doing what you fucking intend.

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Benfea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Let me see if I understand your argument:
If incompetence is sufficiently extreme, then the people responsible for said incompetence must be geniuses rather than morons? And I'm the one who's naive?

Fascinating.
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Blackthorn Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. No, I'm saying they're not incompetent full stop.
I'm saying that the non-action during Katrina was intentional. I'm saying that the non-action on 9/11 was intentional. The quagmire in Iraq? Intentional. Leaving Bin Laden on the loose, even though he's dead? Intentional. Everything the Bush Administration has been planned and carried out to almost perfection. It's not incompetence if you intend for it to happen.

I mean, when Bush says he wants to bring democracy to Iraq, do you believe him? But it's simply his incompetence that's stopping it from happening? If you don't believe him, then what the fuck does incompetence have to do with it. He's flat out lying to cover the real agenda. Which is happening, and it's going to plan.

Yes, you are.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Um, look at Bush*s live up till now
He fucked up everything he touched. I don't think it was a plan
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az chela Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is sinister and evil and should be reinvestigated and the
people in our government should be put in prison
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Benfea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes, they are evil, but they're evil and INCOMPETENT.
This bunch simply isn't capable of pulling off such a complex conspiracy involving such a large number of people. Stealing an election, sure, but this? I don't buy it.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Well, they did pull it off
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 02:11 AM by CJCRANE
or allow it to happen, so they're competent to that level.

However, they're incompetent because they've left their fingerprints all over it and their contradictions are catching up with them. They're fighting a full scale media war just to keep the questions and conspiracy theories at bay.

ed: sp
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
4. Something much more sinister
Do a google search for "new Pearl Harbor", and you'll find out why warnings were ignored.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. It was an obvious inside job.
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. For further discussion
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. corrected link?
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 02:21 AM by tiptoe
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I tried it just now and
so did I.

I went to the board again and copied this link, see if it works here, I put it into a new page and it did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. absolutely...
much more sinister.
PNAC!

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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. dickie
probably told georgie not to worry his pretty head about the memo. just enjoy his vacation.
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. Sinister: BYU Prof placed on leave Fri- Reported evidence of Thermite @WTC
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 02:11 AM by tiptoe
September 9, 2006 SCHOLARS FOR 9/11 TRUTH ASSAILED --Members and movement attacked from several directions
Madison, WI (PRWEB) September 9, 2006 --- Three professors who are members of Scholars for 9/11 Truth have been threatened with the loss of their positions for their research and teaching about the events of 9/11. Other attacks are coming from national magazines, such as TIME and U.S. NEWS, which have cover-stories this week suggesting that those who believe 9/11 involved a conspiracy may need psychological counseling. In addition, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and Popular Mechanics have published pieces intended to bolster the official account of 9/11.

“This flurry of activity suggests that the government is becoming desperate in its efforts to keep the truth about 9/11 from the American people,” said James H. Fetzer, the founder and co-chair of the society. “But I don’t think it’s working.” Fetzer finds attacks on faculty members, including Kevin Barrett, a humanities instructor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Bill Woodward, a professor of psychology at the University of New Hampshire, and Steven Jones, a physics professor at Brigham Young University and the society’s co-chair, especially disturbing.

“According to the government, 9/11 is ‘the pivotal event of the 21st century,’ which changed everything”, he observed. “So it obviously deserves to be studied. College and universities are the institutions that undertake the study of significant historical events. The very idea that faculty should not be studying the events of 9/11 verges on the absurd,” he remarked. “And since the official account-that the events of 9/11 involved 19 Islamic fundamentalists hijacking four commercial airliners and perpetrating terrorist acts under control of a man in a cave in Afghanistan-involves a conspiracy, it is impossible to study 9/11 without dealing with conspiracy theories.”

Fetzer thinks the administration wants to suppress serious research on 9/11 because the official account cannot withstand scrutiny. “What the government has told us is just fine if you are willing to believe impossible things,” he observed. “Its truth requires violating laws of physics and engineering that cannot be violated and cannot be changed.” He offered a recent piece from NIST that attempts to resolve “frequently asked questions” as an illustration. “We have posted it on our web site at st911.org along with several critiques. I invite anyone to review that exchange to determine if the official account has any basis in science. It does not.”
...


September 6, 2006 Fury as academics claim 9/11 was 'inside job' jonesreport.com, Daily Mail
Professor Steven Jones, who lectures in physics at the Brigham Young University in Utah, says the official version of events is the biggest and most evil cover up in history.

He has joined the 9/11 Scholars for Truth whose membership includes up to 75 leading scientists and experts from universities across the US.

Prof Jones said: "We don't believe that 19 hijackers and a few others in a cave in Afghanistan pulled this off acting alone.

"We challenge this official conspiracy theory and, by God, we're going to get to the bottom of this."

In essays and journals, the scientists are giving credence to many of the conspiracy theories that have circulated on the internet in the past five years.

They believe a group of US neo-conservatives called the Project for a New American Century, set on US world dominance, orchestrated the 9/11 attacks as an excuse to hit Iraq, Afghanistan and later Iran.

The group says scientific evidence over the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon is conclusive proof.

Professor Jones said it was impossible for the twin towers to have collapsed in the way they did from the collision of two aeroplanes.
...


September 8, 2006 BYU places '9/11 truth' professor on paid leave
PROVO — Brigham Young University placed physics professor Steven Jones on paid leave Thursday while it reviews his involvement in the so-called "9/11 truth movement" that accuses unnamed government agencies of orchestrating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center.
BYU will conduct an official review of Jones' actions before determining a course of action, university spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said. Such a review is rare for a professor with "continuing status" at BYU, where Jones has taught since 1985.
...
Jones became a celebrity among 9/11 conspiracy-theory groups after he wrote a paper titled Updated version: Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Collapse? The paper was published two weeks ago in the book 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out and lays out Jones' hypothesis that the three towers fell because of pre-positioned demolition charges — not because of the planes that hit two of the towers.
When Jones began to share his demolition theory publicly last fall, he politely declined to speculate about who set the charges other than to say terrorist groups couldn't have been the source.
Then, later, he started to speak publicly about research conducted at BYU on materials from ground zero. He said he found evidence of thermite — a compound used in military detonations — in the materials.
In recent weeks, after becoming the co-chairman of the group Scholars for 9/11 Truth, Jones seemed willing to go further, implicating unnamed government groups but not President Bush.
...
"BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty," the statement said. "We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."
...
Efforts to reach Jones prior to press time Thursday night were not successful. He later declined comment. Jones told the Deseret Morning News on Wednesday that his paper had gone through an unusual third round of peer review in what is now an apparently unsuccessful effort to quell concerns on campus.
...
Jones, also known for his cold fusion research, provided academic clout to the 9/11 truth movement. C-SPAN repeatedly broadcast a conference that featured Jones this summer. Recent articles about Sept. 11 conspiracy theories that focused at least in part on Jones have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Guardian in London and other publications.
Recent rebuttals to the demolition theory have been released by the State Department and the National Institute of Standards and Technology, which published a 10,000-page report on the towers' collapse.
A modified version of Jones' paper was scheduled to be published this week in the online Journal of 9/11 Studies. Jones is a co-editor of the journal.
...

Additional DU discussion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=114064&mesg_id=114064

Power Point Presentation by Prof Steven E. Jones re Pentagon's "Fake" Bin Laden:

Which one of these is not like the others? Image 55
Pentagon's OBL (E) not the same as AL Jazeera's Image 56
Sept 16 & 28, bin Laden denies 9/11 involvement Image 57
With much fanfare, administration released the "smoking gun" video 13 Dec 2001 Image 58
Bin Laden video on Dec. 27, 2001 -- after release of Pentagon "confession tape" Image 59
Bush admin. bin Laden (12/13/2001) vs. Aljazeera bin Laden (12/27/2001) Image 60
Osama bin Laden: Convicted on TV. What other suspects were even investigated? Image 61
So what happened after 9-11? Image 62


SOURCE: Bin Laden Was Blamed - did he do 9/11?
Outline Part III of 9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions

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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. Incompetence is trying to hold up a bank with a banana.........


Sinister is lending all the banks assets to
your friends, who default on the loans allowing
you to declare bankruptcy and avoid jail for
racketeering.
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tiptoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Why did Jeb do this?"
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 04:21 AM by tiptoe
Why did Jeb do this?

Jcrowley (97 posts) Sun Sep-10-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I looked that up
and lo and behold it takes you to here:
Jeb Bush seized flight school records at 2 AM on September 12.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
17. "much more sinister"? make that far more sinister...
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. 9/11 paymaster had meetings on DC on 9/11
There are a lot of weird conspiracy theories out there that tend to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.

But the financial and intelligence ties, reported in the mainstream media, make a good case for government complicity.

The most damning fact for me is that the guy who actually paid for Mohammed Atta's flight school training was the head of Pakistan's intelligency agency, the Inter-Service Intelligency Agency (usually called the ISI). The head of the ISI was Lt. Gen. Mahmoud Ahmad. He sent $100,000 to Atta in the year before 9/11.

This paymaster of the 9/11 attacks flew to Washington, DC around September 6, 2001 and met with the heads and top officials of the CIA, Defense Deparment, National Security Council, and State Department. On the morning of 9/11, the paymaster of the attacks was having breakfast with Porter Goss, chair of the House Intelligence Committee, a former CIA agent who would later be appointed to Director of Cental Intelligence.

So why would the paymaster of the 9/11 plot be in DC meeting top officials of the Bush administration?

Google ISI and "Mahmoud Ahmad" and you will be shocked at what you find.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
22. sinister (very)
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