PT911 - We're being Punk'd by Rove while Bush walks away clean

[symbolman]

I figured it out - Once again we are put into the position of Arguing about the ARGUEMENT, instead of going after the ROOT with a legal, or PR vengence.

Rove knew a 5 year anniversary was going to be a watershed event in people's minds - so they created this giant PR boondoggle, and he left all start screaming about the FILM Instead of Hammering on the FAILURES OF BUSH. To throw it in our faces and add the topping Bush will be speaking DURING the film when they get to the part where he is CANONIZED.

Of course he gets a lot of milage out of this, the dumb right wingers can scream CLINTON all day long every time we mention BUSH having Opened us up to attack. NO ONE is talking about Cheney taking over the TERROR issue as soon as he got in office. No one is bringing up the fact that we offered the Taleban 40 million and they could take their choice of "a carpet of gold, or a carpet of BOMBS", leading them to probably use that 40 million (as DOCUMENTED AS FACT by Michael Moore) to hire Al Queda or whoever really DID do this (maybe an inside job, we don't know for sure) to KILL all those people.

The trick? Once again FRAMING the issue and OWNING IT. It reminds me of the PINK PANTHER episode where Inspector Clouseau is busted down to traffic cop and he is demanding that a blind street musician get a "License for his Minkey" (monkey) or get off the street. While the musician ARGUES with Clouseau the Bank BEHIND them is being ROBBED.

They push buttons on the Left and the Left dutifully respond, outraged, BY THE WRONG THING. Granted this is a heinous theft of History, and a PR event - but 40 million is chump change when Bush can Stand before a Film of himself saving America, while we become TOTALLY FOCUSED on how THEY have framed the issue.

Let's get back to HAMMERING all the Media we can that tells the actual TRUTH, that this was the most catastrophic failure of a "President" in modern history, that Bush KNEW and that we KNOW he KNEW and we aren't going waste all of our time arguing about another film about it.

We must MAKE FILMS that get airplay, and at the same time demand that Congress Yanks ABC's license to peddle political SMUT.

Meanwhile, let's keep sending out ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN about BUSH'S FAILURE.

One thing I learned about being on TV, both on the O'Reilly show, and Scarborough's twice, is that they will SLAM you with a bunch of their FANTASY and make it sound like a Barrage of Questions. The answer you give is important, and who conrols that conversation despite it not being your hunting ground is important and here's how it's done.

YOU STAY CALM. It doesn't even matter what they said, YOU have a Point to make and You need to get it out.

Here's what you do: "Well Bill/Joe. That's ALL WELL AND GOOD, BUT...Bush was president and we got attacked because the Terrorists recognized that America was WEAK with an Idiot for 'President', and attacked us savagely, and YOU KNOW IT."

We FLIP THEM, they don't FLIP US :)

Let's get back to work PROMOTING OUR AGENDA - maybe SOME of us need to attack ABC for this, President Clinton's LAWYERS for instance - and the rest of us can certainly boycott all things DISNEY for this garbage. But the MAJORITY of us need to SET THE FACTS STRAIGHT and Trumpet them from the ROOFTOPS!

WE need to get in LOCKSTEP, and FRAME the ISSUES OURSELVES, and quit falling into Rovian Traps - we've been PUNK'D once again, and playing DEFENSE is getting OLD. Time to ATTACK with nothing but the TRUTH on all the BLOGS DAILY FOR MONTHS.

We've got each others backs now, and the Dems have been staying "on Messege" about this and I'm proud of them for that, NOW let's LAY INTO THEM!!

[Jackpine Radical]

1. I've been saying the following all weekend:

The Democrats need to turn the Path to 9-11 (henceforth PT911) story to their advantage, and they can do it if they play their cards right. They have nearly 2 months after September 11. In today’s world of 20-second attention spans, that's enough time for a shark attack story, another bogus child-killer story & 1 or 2 girl-in-vegetative-state stories. 9-11 isn't going to be anywhere near the center of public consciousness anymore by Nov 7, but the Democrats can make sure the Big Lie story is still there.

If they’re smart, thee Democrats will "pull a Rove" and turn the PT911 story into a story about the falsification, just as Rove did with the AWOL story in 2004. The Democrats have the substantial advantage that truth is on their side in this matter, but they must stay on-message. They need to meet every Right-wing lie and distortion with the accusation that the Republicans are trying to do another PT911.

Despite their demonstrable conservative bias in coverage, the media have to show a Democrat talking every once in a while, just to maintain some pretense of fairness. The Democrats should keep slipping in the message PT911 and the Lie Machine. The objective is to turn PT911 into a synonym for Right-Wing Propaganda.

The timing couldn't be better for the Democrats, really--if they play it right. Just as the Republicans are starting to ramp up the propaganda machine, their first big lie out of the box gets exposed as a total piece of crap. This is a teachable moment. The public is more ready than ever to let go of their idealized portrait of the Bushies and let the scales fall from their eyes. Let every subsequent right-wing Swiftboat attack be met with the "Just Another Pathetic PT911" meme.

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. kick

:kick:

[symbolman]

3. EXACTLY

In a way this is a GIFT -- I think they're slipping personally. THey just handed us 5 hours of complete Bullshit that we can wave around like a Prize Bass and slap their faces with.

Let's SPANK them with it.. JUST ANOTHER PROGANDA FILM FROM THE RIGHT.

CLINTON WASN'T PRESIDENT, BUSH WAS.

Not to mention that BUSH and Co THREW away the Hart Rudman Security info on Terrorism the minute they went into office.

THEY LITERALLY DID NOTHING. Simple really. THEY DID NOTHING.

Thanks Jackpine, I always enjoy your posts and ideas :)

[Nikki Stone 1]

4. They've succeeded in making 9/11 about Bill Clinton (and his penis)

Their strategy this election is to run against Bill Clinton again. What we need to do (instead of worrying about lawsuits that will put Clinton and his administration in focus) is to get back to the real questions of 9/11 beginning with:

Where the hell was the US military? Or as Randi Rhodes might suggest, who gave the "stand down" order?

[symbolman]

6. Yep, I was in the USAF

drafted during the early 70's and I had top secret clearance, which I sometimes delivered to "scramble rooms" where when the Klaxxon goes off they are IN THE AIR in Seconds if not minutes, and I know for a FACT that for them to say the ENTIRE eastern SEABOARD was Unprotected by the USAF is laughable.

If they didn't have that whole eastern seaboard under protection in case of attack then the CIC is at fault for either gross negligence or Collusion. There IS no other answer.

There should have been 3-5 fighter pilots on each plane, and they could have simply used their combined Jet Wash of their craft to FORCE the airliners out to sea or away from populated areas. They didn't even need to shoot them down.

Good call, now THIS is what we need to hammer them on. That and Bush reading a BOOK about a Pet Goat. YOU DID NOTHING BUSH, Not since the time you took office to protect our COUNTRY, and THAT IS YOUR FAULT.

You took and Oath and did nothing, that is impeachable, not to mention lying to congress. War Crimes against your own people. I hope when the Lord takes you, that you DIE ALONE for all your crimes against americans.

[razors edge]

8. i spent four years as an F-4 phantom phixer

and even though the marines are ground support pilots first, they could also respond if need be to an actual air threat with massive quantities of pain and suffering.

18 arabs with box cutters couldn't hold the interceptors down for more than an hour.

18 arabs with box cutters on airplanes couldn't keep the secret service from evacuating the president from a disclosed location during an attack.

[Nikki Stone 1]

9. It's amazing to me how few people actually ask where the military was

on 9/11. Maybe it's a sign of how far removed the American public is from their senses. The military's absence is completely inexplicable unless there was collusion.

[razors edge]

10. rumsfeld, i read, changed the rules of engagement

in the summer of 01, prior to that an intercept was launched on regional command decision, after the change the launch required his approval and he could not be located, just what i read, i could look it up again if you like.

[Nikki Stone 1]

12. God, that rings a bell.

Yes, if you have a link, I'd love to see it.

[razors edge]

18. almost a given

[symbolman]

13. Thanks for serving, appreciated

and I agree wholeheartedly, there's a scam here in this somewhere - do you agree that jetwash could have forced these planes out to see or unpopulated areas?

And for Bush to keep those children in DANGER with a disclosed location during an attack is reprehensible. To me that says a LOT.

Thanks for serving once again :)

[razors edge]

17. would be hard to control jet wash to completely

control another planes flight, could steal their lift and bring them down, think flat spin, but a sidewinder would stop the threat nicely. flying at 1500 mph jets could have reached the area quickly enough to take them all out had the rules of engagement been followed, first make visual contact, second roll up and show the business end of a multi million dollar supersonic weapons launching platform, and if all else fails, splash the SOB. these roe had been in place for many years but not followed on 9-11.

[symbolman]

20. You think the one that hit the ground in Penn

augered in or was shot down? Seen any pics of that one? From what I saw there were pieces all over but not any kind of skid pattern..

No BITs (brains in trees) as we called them in the AF when I was in.

I've seen at least one film made by right wingers that showed Cheney making the call and shooting that flight down, the one that starred Timothy Bottoms (of "That's My Bush" fame) and was very nearly COMEDY. "Sir, we have a threat against the Air Force One.." Tim Bottoms stands up, "Is it a Credible Threat?" I was on the floor.. Then they show Rummy sitting in the Pentagon with nothing to do, BLAM they're hit and he's OUTSIDE HOLDING A SALINE BAG as they run with an injured.. too much, like he had nothing to do that day but play EM..

According to what I read tho, I have heard that the chain of command was changed SHORTLY BEFORE 911, so that Rummy effectively COULD order a shoot of a commercial liner.

Appreciate the input from someone who knows whereof they speak.

[razors edge]

23. I read the story about

rummy getting the intercept orders changed in may or so of 01 also, will be looking it up for another duer from another thread, don't know how to post a link yet bet i'll work on it.

my reply #20 covers most of the rest from what i can surmise of it, but I definitely don't buy the "we couldn't get a plane in the air" BS. even if that were true, we should have seen squadrons of fighters show up on tv shortly afterwords, maybe they did but i don't remember it.

but the dead giveaway is the Secret Service leaving bush sit there and not whisk him away while there were other planes still in the air, his location had been disclosed in advance.

the dog that didn't bark. they knew he was in no danger sitting 4 miles from an airport.

[Karenina]

14. Help me here, Symbolman

People talk about 7 minutes and "The Pet Goat." IIRC wasn't it more like 20 minutes? And wasn't the first video from the school "disappeared?" And weren't a whole bunch of "Buffet-type" CEO's at a brunch in Omaha? And wasn't Commander *Bunnypants whisked off to that same city to be "out of harm's way?"

[Jackpine Radical]

15. I certainly remember people talking about the 20 or 23 minutes

or something at first, but later it was always 7 minutes. I think F9-11 said 7 minutes. I guess I assumd the 20-min. business was a rough early guess that turned out to be an overestimate. I could easily be wrong, though.

[symbolman]

16. As I understand it

that asshat sat there for a full 20 minutes or so, later the right wing media started weighing in on it and started the Rumor that it was only 7 minutes and that Bush RUSHED out of the room.

Some had it down to 30 seconds, some two minutes.

I wrote to Larry Flynt soon after it became apparent that there was some disparity there and asked him if he didn't think that maybe if he ponied up a million bucks or so, if someone who was THERE (and there were TONS of cameras there that morning, I have a picture of them lining up to shoot), would be inclined to produce a FULL length version of HOW LONG Bush sat there.

I also wrote in the email that if Larry were to buy up a half an hour of airtime during elections and RUN the WHOLE FILM of Bush sitting there for 20 minutes UNEDITED that the Republicans would never win another election :)

Larry never wrote me back, but I'll get to him at some point - I know people who know him..

I personally remember that it was well known at that time that Bush sat there for 20 minutes or MORE, as that's what I put in my flash I made one year later to the day.

At that time you could actually send 25 bucks to the School and they'd send you a High Res Video Tape of the entire event.. Buzzflash had the 7 minute version I utilized, but someone had a 40 minute version somewhere - back then it took too long to download, I wonder where that one went, I could D/L it now in no time. It was too expensive to Host in 2001 online.

The school QUIT selling it, I think they got leaned on, because I knew a lot of people that were ordering it, they were making money off that thing.

Yes to Buffet, the CEO's WEREN'T in the TWIN TOWERS THAT DAY, due to a Buffet invite, no one's followed up on that one I believe, but it DID happen.

Dunno if Bush left a trail of PISS all the way to Omaha or not, I assume he did, I think that's where they have a base under a mountain just for these Dr StrangeGlove events.

Still 7 minutes is a LONG TIME to put all those kids in danger. Here's an interesting item too.. they claim they were gone right after Bush's speech, but I remember a picture of Bush and RICE and ROVE all standing around in a schoolroom talking on the phones and the school clock says 10 o'clock on it.. I've got all these videos and pics on hard drives somewhere and I do have my "Bush Knew - An American Requiem" Flash I created one year after 911 occurred with some interesting facts on the Timing of that morning, including Bush sitting there for 20 minutes..

[Karenina]

22. Thanks! The reason I remember

is that I was SO PISSED when the timeline got "corrected" to 7 minutes I was screaming BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT and searching everywhere for some unedited footage I'd seen. That shit got scrubbed so fast it made my head spin.

[AX10]

5. Exactly!

[5X]

7. Big K & R for sense and sensibility.

Rare as it is, lately.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

11. I agree - we should be going on the OFFENSIVE on this issue

They brought up the topic and now we need to tell the truth.

[opihimoimoi]

19. THE DISTRACTION CARD...its to take our minds off the GOPs dereliction

of duty and focus on BS.

Rove may be smarter than his own good tho...all this ranting and raving is bringing up the peeps conciouness re Bush...

Too much evidence emerging showing him to be a dufus../ only his brainwashed base clings to him...

Rove is gonna have a meeting with Mr Murphy this afternoon re Nov 06

[ProgressiveEconomist]

21. The truth is on the internet, and there are many links to it on DU. See URLs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2082072

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2080493

for a start .