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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:35 PM
Original message
GWB's unusual behavior the morning of 9/11.
Today's Dallas Morning News had a feature where they asked several Texans where they were on 9/11. One of them was Sandy Kress, former senior education adviser who was with Bush in Florida. It's certainly not a smoking gun, but I thought some of his remarks were interesting. Verrry interesting.

Sandy Kress: I flew with the president to Florida

03:20 PM CDT on Sunday, September 10, 2006

I went with him to Florida that day to kick-start discussions on the education bill – I actually have the trip manifest from Air Force One, which I'm going to keep – and briefed him that very morning in his suite, literally moments before the first plane hit.


(I have never understood why there hasn't been more outrage over the fact that they already knew about the first plane and still they proceeded on with the photo-op at the elementary school. Especially since we now know there had been warnings about terrorist attacks, some of them specifically mentioning planes.)


One of the most vivid memories of the day was being with him that morning. The day was so beautiful. It was crisp and clear, all the way up the East Coast. I remember this feeling in his little suite – it was just so palpable.

The president is a very punctual person, but that morning he was just sitting back and wanting to talk for a bit. It was kind of like the old days when he was governor or when he was in Dallas. It was a little uncharacteristic because it went past the time for the schedule for the motorcade. That struck me as unusual. I had the feeling later that these were the last moments he was going to have, ever, in the old world, in the pre-9/11 world.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-kress_10edi.ART.State.Edition1.3e5eaf3.html


So what did Bush know and when did he know it? :tinfoilhat:


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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. and the interview today with the kids, five years after
they said his face got red. They thought he was mad at them.. stuff like that. Just makes you wonder doesn't it?
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astonamous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. I agree...
so much was made of the 7 minutes, but B*sh knew before that seven minutes and still continued. It goes against everything I was ever taught while stationed at Andrews Air Force Base. If the country was being attacked or if there is a possibility, the President would be in Air Force One within minutes and running the country from the technology contained within that plane. He wouldn't be doing a photo op. Did B*sh know we weren't under attack?

Trudy
www.pryorsplanet.com
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. yes -- any way you look at it ...
... at the very least it shows extreme incompetence from someone who is claiming to be able to "protect" the country. Dawdling on the ground, endangering himself and probably those children as well (plus keeping them there as a backdrop as he talked about planes crashing into buildings, even though he claimed to be concerned about not frightening them). I am not an expert on security procedures, but even I know that Air Force One is MUCH safer than an already-known civilian location on the ground. They were claiming that they didn't want to take him to the plane because they thought it might be targeted (something about terrorists maybe knowing the code name for it?) -- and yet in the same breath, they claimed that the reason they spent so much time flying him around the country was because it was safe. They can't have it both ways!
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Sick_of_Rethuggery Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
66. it wasn't just 7 more minutes...
As I recall, he hung around in the school for about a half hour more, photo-opping and heh-hehing...

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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. It was unusual because that fucker
knew exactly what was going to happen. His behavior is no mystery at all.

As for their not being more outrage over his continuing his schedule even after he learned of the first plane, and after they knew of the specific airplane hijack warnings-what do you expect, since the RW corporate MSM whores haven't exactly fully publicized that little gem so that few people really know about it.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. agreed
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Nozebro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Excellent post. Couldn't be more accurate - I'm sorry to have to say n/t
n/t
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pyro858 Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. You nailed it.
He looked guilty as sin, didn't he?
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Felinity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
64. Forgive me for re-posting this here: AM I Crazy?
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 09:00 AM by Felinity
It belongs in this thread more than the one I posted it in earlier.

Maybe Bush, warned that this was the big, New Pearl Harbor day, actually found this very exciting that the game was on. Maybe that's why his face turned red, according to the child en who were there. Maybe he was embarrassed and couldn't get up until his "excitement" subsided (it's always about the Children).

Remember, during the 2000 (I think, could have been 2004) Rethug convention, the Daily Show pointed out the giant erection Bush was sporting from the Audience?

Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, right?

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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #64
67. It is for **. Nothing turns him on more. If I could have just one wish
it would be that the whole truth of that day and 9/11 comes out, NOW!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cheney was whisked off by SS
no questions asked just taken immediately away, why not bush?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Why not Bush?
I assume that the Secret Service has jurisdiction over any Presidential Photo-Op. If there were planes flying into buildings...how would they not assume that planes would also attack the school? I'm not aware that they had fighter coverage over the school....so wouldn't the SS get Bush out of there ASAP?

It was the lack of SS action that concerns me. Unless, of course, they knew that Bush was in no danger.

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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
58. Guilty.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Kind of reminds me of Stalin's last day on earth
Even though Stalin was dying, no one dared disturb the Russian dictator unless invited to come in the room. So he lay there for over 12 hours, at least.

Same thing with Shrub. No one would DARE tell the pretzeldent what he should do, even in an emergency.

Even when it was the sane thing to do.
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. All the planes that were hijacked took off late that morning
If they had all taken off on time then all four targets could have been hit in the 15-20 minutes Bush's motorcade was originally scheduled to take.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Most of the planes took off pretty close to on time
It was Flight 93 that really threw off their schedule and forced everyone into stall mode for over a half hour.

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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Depends on what you mean by pretty close
As I recall all but 93 were 10-20 minutes late, and 93 was about 40 minutes late. The point is that if they had all left on time, almost simultaneous attacks could have been pulled off and the time frame for such attacks would have been while the motorcade was rolling.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. One plane left on time
Two planes left 16-20 minutes late but still within tolerances.

Flight 93 was the fly in the ointment leaving 41 minutes late.


7:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 a Boeing 767-223ER with a maximum capacity of 181 passengers and 23,980 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 7:45.

8:01 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 93 a Boeing 757-222 with a maximum capacity of 200 passengers and 11,489 gallons of fuel, rolls from the gate in Newark International Airport, Newark, New Jersey with 44 people aboard bound for San Francisco International Airport, San Francisco, California. United Airlines Flight 93 will sit on the ground for 41 minutes before taking off.

8:14 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 175 a Boeing 767-222 with a maximum capacity of 181 passengers and 23,980 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 7:58.

8:20 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 a Boeing 757-223 with a maximum capacity of 200 passengers and 11,489 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Dulles International Airport about 30 miles west of Washington D.C. and the Pentagon, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 8:01.


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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Which one left on time?
Looks like they were all late from the info you posted.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Flight 11
left 4 minutes late, that's pretty much on time. I doubt if many planes ever leave exactly at their take off times.

However, the reason to do this attack early in the morning is that the first planes out have the best chance of leaving on time or close to on time.



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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Looks like 14 min to me
7:45 scheduled versus 7:59 actual, assuming that's correct, is 14 min late.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Oops, you're right
Time to give my eyes a break.

Either way, it's still Flight 93 that caused them to have to go into stall mode. I'm sure they would have built in a small margin of error, but 41 minutes was a lot longer then they had planned for.



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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
61. According to the airlines
on time stats are based on arrival times. However, if the plane arrives within 15 minutes of the scheduled landing time, it is considered on time.



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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. "My Pet Goat"! Bush was sitting, WAITING for Andrew Card to come in
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 10:52 PM by WinkyDink
with JUST the message he DID come in with.

And Bush had to stifle his thrill because of the kids; hence, the studied blank expression.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #49
69. He was being stage managed....
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 11:39 AM by Old and In the Way
"Who was really in control? Certainly not Bush. In the back of the room, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer caught Bush’s eye and held up a pad of paper for him to see, with “DON’T SAY ANYTHING YET” written on it in big block letters. (Washington Times, 10/7/02)"

From Paul Thompson's great article on the events of 9/11...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.jsp?article=essayaninterestingday

In light of the recent attacks on the historical record of 9/11, I think it's time to buy the book.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Late?
So the photo-op was never supposed to take place? That's why they didn't know what to do, because had the planes been early the whole thing was to be bush in front of a mic?

So bush was placed in front of the little ones instead, while the background people were waiting for flight 93 and cheney to give the word to go live?

Must of been a few uncomfortable moments there.... no wonder bush just sat there waiting.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Only 93 was significantly late...but I don't believe Chimp's travel
schedule had much if anything to do with the day's plan. Unless, of course, there was some coordination. :eyes:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. If all of the planes had left on time
the attack would have been over or almost over by 9:00 AM just has Bush was arriving at Booker Elementary. Instead of looking like an idiot, he would have looked like a hero.

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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Ohh...okay I get it. He could have "leaped into action" before the
Goat story got underway. I can see that, but wasn't he smart enough to do it anyway, albeit "late"?
Why didn't he just stand up and say "Something important just came up and I'm sorry but I have to
leave right away and see about it"...?

I guess that's a rhetorical question, though...:eyes:
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. They had to wait until at least the Pentagon was hit
They needed a strike on a military target, not just civilian targets to justify their war on terra.

All of the top WH officials sat on their hands until after the Pentagon was hit.

(Hint: see my sig line)

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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Not leap into action but caught by surprise
in order to explain the lack of quick military response. If the attacks had taken place in less than 30 min then it would have been easier to sell the story that the planes couldn't be scrambled in time. So they had to wait and worry and go forward with what they were doing.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Yes, I see what you're saying but I meant from THEIR viewpoint as
PR usefulness - wouldn't it have -appeared- uh, 'better' if he had done something...anything...to look more 'presidential', which isn't to say he/they couldn't have stalled on actually DOING anything other than SEEMING to 'take charge'.?

I'm just wondering how or why the whole thing was handled so horribly - but maybe they aren't nearly as bright as I was giving them credit for. But then I have to realize the knuckledraggers interpret things differently, many of them saw him sitting like a turd on a log as being 'calm', 'thoughtful' or
'resolute'. Who can deduce the mindset of Bushbot freepers?...not I. :eyes:
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. I unbelievably had someone tell me that
he interpreted Bush's sitting there doing nothing as Bush "getting all mad as hell" or something like that.

The rest of us in the conversation all said, "WHAT!?" incredulously, even one of the other guys who is probably a rightie. The guy actually found Bullsh's indecision to be something to respect.

I don't get it either.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #40
59. One thing Bush is not good at
is switching gears.

Bush likes to follow a script and when the script changes he's panics.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #40
62. Absolutely.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. What's scary is they don't have to be that bright, apparently, to
fool the sheeple and get them in line.

You have to be willing to swallow whole whatever the M$M says in order to think of Bush as "heroic" on that day. It is glaringly obvious he did NOT take charge. He "protected" no one. He was being protected.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. So what did Bush know and when did he know it?
why wont they answer the questions ?

nazis are what they are
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liberaldemocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Bush did not "know" in the classic way.
Bush did not plan it, But he angered the Taliban in July 2001 with his invasion plans and they struck first.

When the planes hit the towers, Bush CONCLUDED that he pissed off the people he was negotiating with.

So BUSH knew in the sense that his provocation brought an unexpected reaction by the taliban by destroying the towers.

That explains his anger on tv in the classroom but not as much surprise as if he did not provoke the taliban.

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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Kress's description almost sounds like somebody who's
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 08:47 PM by tanyev
stalling for time for some reason. That's how it hit me when I read it, anyway.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. "The president is a very punctual person
but that morning he was just sitting back and wanting to talk for a bit."

That's not what happened according to Katie over at the Colony:


THE PRESIDENT IN SARASOTA

<snip>

The President went up to bed at 10 but some of the others lingered in the Monkey Bar. Katie chatted with some of the Secret Service agents and soon found herself touring the Presidential limousine. She remembers marveling at all the phones and electronic equipment.

The President was up at six and gave in to the Secret Service when they requested that he not jog on the beach, for security reasons. He was driven to Harbourside Gulf Course in the neighboring Longboat Key Club.

After a four-and-a-half mile run, the President returned to the Colony and showered. He left promptly at 8:35 but not before thanking the Klaubers and the Colony staff, each member personally when possible.

The motorcade set out and soon disappeared southward on Gulf of Mexico Drive. The President was on Highway 301, just north of Main Street, heading toward Booker Elementary when, on the phone that Katie Moulton had been admiring just hours before, he received the news that a plane had crashed in New York City.

http://web.archive.org/web/20011204000548/http://sarasotamagazine.com/Pages/hotstories/hotstories.asp?136


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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #14
70. I wonder if Katie could tell us if CCTV was part of her marveling
about all the phones and electronic equipment.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. She probably thinks
I just for playing porn videos on.

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. One thing bush said about that morning - and he said it at least twice -
is that he saw the first plane hit on tv that morning.

That's not possible, because there was no live broadcast of the first plane hitting that morning. He couldn't have seen it.

Or could he?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Supposedly his limo is equiped
with all the latest hi-tech gear.

Why did it take them 25 minutes to drive a route that should have taken at the most 10 minutes?

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. but how would he have seen the first plane hit when it wasn't broadcast
I understand your question, its another piece of the puzzle, but I've never gotten over the fact he claimed to see the first plane hit, at the school:

QUESTION: One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country, and another thing is that how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?

BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE)

Thank you, Jordan (ph).

Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Maybe he had a special closed circuit channel
that was monitoring the WTC?

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. but why in the world would he have a cc camera trained on the WTC?
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 09:09 PM by Skip Intro
that morning, and watching it on the way to the school? What possible reason could there be? Unless he knew what was coming...

but, he said he saw it in the hallway of the school.

this baffles me - he didn't simiply mispeak, he detailed watching the moment that would change America and the world in the hallway of the school.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Got me
but it's the only way I can figure, that he would have seen the plane crash before anyone else in the country. The video of the 1st plane hitting wasn't discovered and broadcast on the M$M until much later in the day.

Also, Bush told his 'bad pilot' story not just once, but twice and two separate occasions.

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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Maybe he was watching a rerun of the pilot for THE LONE GUNMEN?
Oh, but the plane didn't actually hit in that one...
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. There was no TV in the hallway
The TV was in the room set up for Bush with special phones etc. As I recall the TV wasn't there originally but was was rolled in while Bush was listening to the goat story.

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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. he puts himself outside the classroom at the time
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 10:36 PM by Skip Intro

possible he meant the tv in the room, and he saw it from outside the room, but it really doesn't matter because he is saying he saw something he could not have seen.

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TripleD Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
77. I found some pictures from the room:
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Has anyone ever publicly challenged him on that? If so, I missed it.
...
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #41
74. I think he was asked again about a month later
and he repeated the same story.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
71. He blew his lines? Bushdoesn't do ab lib, well.
What really disturbs me is the reasoning for inaction. "I saw the first plane go in....I thought that's one terrible pilot". Given that he's carrying a portable SAM missle with him and has an AWACS providing electronic security over head and, it has since been documented, he was given multiple warnings of impending attacks culminating in the 8/6/01 PDB....how can his 1st thought be bad piloting? Sounds like he was already formulating an excuse for his inaction.

Or, if there was CCTV capability in his vehicle, he could have been watching it and forgot that not everyone was seeing this live. Bush's 1st words on 9/11 may be what does him in. I'll take him at his word (repeated twice in public)....he ought to be impeached and charged.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. "the TV was obviously on"
I've never believed that he was telling the truth when he said this. We know that he's an inveterate liar and the lies slip off his tongue easier than does the truth. It sounds plausible--everyone in America had their TVs on that day and saw the footage over and over--but the facts of the day do not support this folksy anecdote.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. That is someone lying and trying to make it sound truthful
why would he say "the TV was obviously on" - ?

He's lying.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. YES! The extraneous "filler" words of a psychopath!! TOTALLY!!
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coda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #37
76. Yep. Like a witness who had been "coached" by a lawyer.
Or a handler.
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Hailtothechimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. 2 things come to mind about this...
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 10:35 PM by Hailtothechimp
First:
When Bush made these comments, he never thought anyone would know about the August 6 PDB, because its existence blows this out of the water. No wonder he fought having an investigation for so long.

Second:
Some people who worked at the WTC in 1993, and who were working there on 9/11, knew what was happening and knew to get out. If the building has already been attacked once, shouldn't the radar be out for when something else happens AT THE SAME BUILDING?!?! I wouldn't have brushed off a plane hitting the WTC if I remembered that somebody had already tried to attack it once before. How stupid does he think we are to overlook that?
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
48. "That's one terrible pilot"
Ya know, every time I hear this story, I hate him more. Because even if it HAD been a single accident and not a coordinated terrorist attack, it still would have been a horrific tragedy that killed hundreds or thousands of people.

And the President sees nothing wrong with joking about this right as it happened, and taking no action to find out what's really going on and what he can do to help?

(Well, we found out from Katrina just how sociopathically callous he is on a grand scale. But this was a hideously revealing little moment, IMO.)
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Well, they have attempted to explain this away as 'confusion'
to deflect criticism of complicity...even if that were true, it's hardly reassuring.
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Some say he saw the images from the second plane
and thought they were of the first plane. After the goat story is over, he goes back to the holding room. A TV has been brought in and all the networks are now playing the second plane over and over. It's plausible he could think these images were of the first plane. But by then everyone knows we are under terrorist attack. There's no way he could utter some comment about a terrible pilot at this point.

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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Yeah, exactly, but it was MONTHS later when he answered that kid
and specifically said he "saw the first plane hit." That was either a lie or a really dangerously
faulty memory - neither of which is very reassuring.
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StraightDope Donating Member (716 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. My Ramblin friend...
I understand that you are merly acting as the proverbial Devil's advocate... However, it is stretches the bounds of credultiy to believe that * could think that plane #2 was plane #1, particularly when acrid black smoke was pouring out of the tower that was hit first, not to mention the fact that * was, or should have been, well-apprasied as to the sequence of events on that fateful day.

The Right can keep selling their version of events, I, for one, ain't buying it...
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ramblin_dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
72. I was just trying to explain the Bush supporter's argument
that Bush was confused, that he saw images of the second plane and thought they were the first plane. Of course it's not really believable even by itself. But the giveaway to the lie is that he claims he thought it was an accident, a terrible pilot. If he sees an image after he's told of the second plane, that makes no sense. If he really did see the first plane, then how? There's no way to explain this except that he's lying.

I tend to agree with others that he rehearsed what he would say and later confused his rehearsal with reality.
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blonndee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
47. I'd forgotten about this, and never could figure it out. I'm trying to
imagine any innocent explanation.

Does anyone think he MIGHT have meant the word "hit" as a noun? Like, instead of saying, "I saw the first building had been hit by a plane" (i.e., before the second plane hit), he instead referred to that particular scene as "the first plane hit"? A stretch, maybe, but I can imagine "folksy" talkers speaking in such a way, and we're all familiar with how inarticulate and slow he is.
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
50. the 'leader' of our country sees a plane hit the wtc and says
now that's a bad pilot. it does not make any sense at all. god, it's like he was making a joke of it. pitiful.
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. Huh??????
"It was kind of like the old days when he was governor or when he was in Dallas. It was a little uncharacteristic because it went past the time for the schedule for the motorcade. That struck me as unusual. I had the feeling later that these were the last moments he was going to have, ever, in the old world, in the pre-9/11 world."
------------

Ever? I don't think so. He very quickly went back to his pre-9-11 schedule, including his month long vacations and his bike rides and golf games. It was only for fear of the Dreaded Cindy Sheehan that finally spooked him away from his semi-retirement in Crawford.
:rofl:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
54. the MOST interesting thing that happened that morning . . .
was what the Secret Service DIDN'T do when informed that "American is under attack" . . . i.e they didn't hustle Bush's ass out of there . . .

the only two possible explanations for the inaction of the SS are that they totally failed to do their jobs that day, or that they KNEW Bush wasn't in any danger whatsoever . . . the former being HIGHLY unlikely (given the nature and history of the agency), the latter is probably the truth . . .

what I want to know is HOW they knew that Bush was in no danger -- and WHO told them . . .

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. don't forget the anti-aircraft weapons at bush's hotel
Edited on Mon Sep-11-06 05:26 AM by leftchick
has that ever happened before? I mean besides at the G8? Has there ever been anti-aircraft weapons set up at another hotel in the US for the chimp?

<snip>

President Bush has just spent the night at Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. Surface-to-air missiles have been placed on the roof of the resort (it is not known if this was typical of presidential security before 9/11, or if this was related to increased terror warnings).

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=bush
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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 04:45 AM
Response to Original message
55. My take. Bush: "We talked about it but they actually did it and.....

they didn't tell me. Now the're going
to blame it on me."
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. That's exactly what I think!
I'm surprised to find only one mention of this possibility in this thread. To me, his expression during the Goat minutes clearly says "My God, they actually did it." Meaning Cheney and Co.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
57. they waited to 'schedule' things properly?
so he'd be in the right place at the right time.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
65. Sounds like Shrubo...
had a mild case of cold feet.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
68. About the first plane, the Pres. reminisced, "That's one terrible pilot."
Dec. 2001 - here is the CCN Transcript


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0112/04/se.04.html

<Thank you, Jordan (ph).

<Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

<But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."

<And Jordan (ph), I wasn't sure what to think at first. You know, I grew up in a period of time where the idea of America being under attack never entered my mind -- just like your daddy and mother's mind probably. And I started thinking hard in that very brief period of time about what it meant to be under attack. I knew that when I got all the facts that we were under attack, there would be hell to pay for attacking America.

(APPLAUSE)>
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #68
78. I don't know which is worse -- Bush actually thinking that
(when 100% of the those I've asked about their reactions on that day have told me it was something like "Oh no, those poor people!")

Or Bush deciding afterwards that it would make an "amusing" anecdote to tell (repeatedly).
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
75. Bush's (in)actions that morning simply make no sense whatsoever.
In July 2001, at the G8 Summit in Genoa, Italy, US President George W. Bush was himself the suspected target of a terrorist plot to crash a hijacked commercial plane into a building.

From The LA Times: http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/latimes092701.html

Italian officials took the reports seriously enough to prompt extraordinary precautions during the July summit of the Group of 8 nations, including closing the airspace over Genoa and stationing anti-aircraft guns at the city's airport.

Given that Bush himself was a suspected target of a hijacked plane crash attack in July 2001, how can the Bush administration possibly explain the fact that Bush kept reading The Pet Goat in a widely publicized, previously scheduled public appearance in Sarasota, FL (only 5 miles from the Sarasota International) for at least 7 minutes and then remained at the school for a press conference more than 25 minutes after it had become patently obvious to even the most casual observer that the US was dealing with a coordinated attack of suicidal terrorist hijackers?

Didn't it cross anybody's mind in the entire Bush entourage that the grammar school might be the terrorists' next target and that they just might want to get Bush and all the children he was reading with out of harm's way? If not, why not? Remember that just two months before, Bush himself had been one of the suspected targets of just such a terrorist plot. Exactly who was in charge of protecting Bush's safety that day? Was there no one in the entire Bush entourage with a three digit IQ?
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