Anyone thought what we'll do next week when Mexico Explodes?

[Wiley50]

AMLO intends to form a parallel government on Sept 16
which is Mexico's Independence Day
Oaxaca has already done so per articles
at Narconews.com

Our Corporate media has the "mute" button on
concerning what is really going on.
It's tough to hear a storm approaching when
the thunder is on mute.

My guess:
The Mexican elite will try to make a stand.
They must for their own survival.
but they have created the huge percentage of mexican citizens
who are not just poor, but impoverished to an immoral extreme.
The elites are totally outnumbered.
and this Revolution is long overdue.

So, maybe they'll try to bring in American mercenaries, like Blackwater, at first.
But, most of them are in Iraq. So the US neocons can't afford to have chaos so close to home.
So, what US military and National Guard, who are not in Iraq, will be sent.

But then, the Mexican nationals who are in the US will have mass demonstrations
in support of the revolution and against US interference,
like they did last spring when the congressional immigration bill was passed.
The inferno will spread to the entire North American Continent.

Where will you stand on all of this?
Any thought to what you will do?
Those Halliburton concentration camps are waiting.
While we are obsessed with the GD controversy du jour
any thought to what is very likely to be reality next week?

Is this the time to make our move on Smirk, Snarl and our own greedy elite?

It's worth consideration.

Just what are your ideas?

[Ezlivin]

1. Blame it on Clinton. He should have seen this coming.

Really. Bush has his hands full dealing with all the problems that administrations going back to Rutherford have left for him.

[Wiley50]

2. You forgot the "sarcasm" thingy n/t

[elehhhhna]

14. lmao

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Clinton TRED to do something

but he was accused of Wagging the Wog.

[Ken Burch]

42. No, Clinton supported "free trade"

Clinton was on the side of the rich against the people in Latin America. We can't make that mistake again.
We need to return to the Bobby Kennedy tradition of solidarity with the poor.

[Hubert Flottz]

47. Wagging the Weenie...

The Clenis Menace...

We should take a lesson from Mexico on how democracy should work.

[lonestarnot]

38. She SAID you forgot the sarcasm thingy!

[Ezlivin]

44. Well, okay then

The mention of the presidency of Rutherford B. Hayes should have made my intentions clear.

[Wiley50]

46. Pardon, but I'm a He n/t

[Bonobo]

3. Talk about a Media Blackout!!! n/t

[Wiley50]

7. Yep, most americans don't have a clue what is happening

The RW press does it's job well.

But, you can bet some of their perception managers
are studying how best to spin this one

[lonestarnot]

39. Might interupt the ABC bullshit?

[enigma000]

4. The Mexicans know how to suppress uprisings

I'm pretty sure not much is going to happen. As for here, do you want to get locked up 2 months before the elections?

[Wiley50]

6. I'm fairly certain Mex. Elite can't suppress this one

Sure, they had massacres of civilians the last time this happened
but, the populace remembers and won't put up with that again.
They are aware of the dangers this time.

Something's gonna blow.
Mark my words.

[niallmac]

12. They don't know how to suppress Oaxaca.

I don't really see how we here in the U.S. will ever be able to get our democracy back
from the cororations without a revoiution. I'm on the side of the peeps.

[EFerrari]

18. You got that right. Oaxaca is awake and there's no stopping her. nt

[newspeak]

51. Mexico was built from an uprising

Mexico rebelled against the French-revolution comes from within--it is the will of the people to chose what's best for their own country with out interference-of course, if we did come in it wouldn't be for the best interest of the majority of Mexican citizens.

[brokensymmetry]

5. I wonder about this...

I'm not that far from the border. If Mexico
explodes, matters may get out of hand.

There's another little possibility. The
situation may simmer for a couple years,
as the Cantarell oil field depletes. If
foreign earnings decline, and the situaion
of the poor becomes more dire, perhaps the
matter will come to a head then - say, three
years from now.

K&R.

[Nikki Stone 1]

8. I think you are right about the mercenaries.

Plans have already been made, I'll wager.

[file83]

9. I'm almost thinking that Mexico is supposed to fall to revolution in order

for the planned "American Union" to begin to form (officially). We already all know about the "trans-national super highway" they are laying down the plans for and in some cases already building, going from Mexico to Canada.

Somehow, they'll use Mexico's instability as an excuse to begin this AU.

[Odin2005]

53. The "American Union" BS is a creation of Libertarian wackos.

[hedgehog]

10. If you think illegal immigration is a problem now......

God help the Mexican people, because I know the US certainly won't

[elehhhhna]

15. holy cow that's quite a point.

[High Plains]

21. You remind me of an old Mexican saying:

"Poor Mexico. So far from God, so near to the United States."

[Annces]

11. I don't know what will happen

But I wish I could read Spanish, would make things easier to follow.

[Danascot]

29. Try these translation tools

Google - scroll down just a little to where is says translate a web page.

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

Babelfish - the granddaddy of web translation

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

[Annces]

31. Thanks - I will try it

I think there may be some good citizen blogs out there. I was looking around a little before.

[Greyhound]

13. I very concerned that the Mexican people are not very well armed

and the Mexican military is. They have never hesitated in the past to use overwhelming force to suppress their people and I see no indication that this will change. OTOH, it appears that there are enough people now that are so pissed off that they may well overwhelm the military with sheer numbers. If that happens, I do believe that it will spill over here and may well set off our much needed, far overdo, "regime change".

If that turns out to be the case, I'm all in. :grr:

[elehhhhna]

16. The Mex Mil is probably made up of, uh, Mexicans. Let's hope they

are allied with their country and not their Governmment.

[Greyhound]

19. Not sure what your point is. The US military is made up of Americans

and, should push come to shove, which side do you imagine they would be on? History shows that very few would switch sides or refuse orders.

[CollegeDUer]

20. Halliburton and Walmart are funding Calderon

And you know what the means: Bush will be sending his people to "fix" this "problem" (and that doesn't mean a fair recount of votes).

[High Plains]

22. I think (and hope) the OP is premature and melodramatic.

Mexico is not on the verge of a revolution today. It looks like it will be facing a serious political and constitutional crisis in the coming days and weeks, but as far as I can tell, it is by no means certain that Lopez Obrador will be able to muster the kind of support that would lead to a revolutionary confrontation. Don't forget that Mexico is essentially a very conservative country, and people don't like political disorder. Even some of Lopez Obrador's supporters on the left have been backing away from this path of confrontation.

Still, these next few days are fraught with danger. If this developes into a serious confrontation, there is no way of telling where it will end.

The revolt in Oaxaca is separate from, but runs parallel to, this confrontation over the election. The same social forces at work in Oaxaca are the ones who support Lopez Obrador nationally.

Meanwhile, the narcos are waging bloody war, and it's spreading from the border. There has been very ugly violence against police in Acapulco, and just a few days ago, narcos went into a bar in Michoacan and left five heads in the middle of the dance floor. More than 1,500 people have been killed in the inter-cartel drug wars in the past year.

Still, I think I might spend the winter there.

[Ksec]

23. So there are still Mexicans down there?

Hell, I thought they were all up here.

[High Plains]

25. Only about 107 million, according to a June 2006 estimate

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html

[pitohui]

26. hell there's more mexicans than that right here in new orleans

i kid, i kid

[Taxloss]

24. This really is under-reported.

I don't agree with your worst-case scenario, though; Mexico's civil society will inevitably have a stronger self-preservation instinct than that.

[Peace Patriot]

27. It's a non-violent revolution, and it is huge and unstoppable. If the

Mexican fascists use violence, they will be in big trouble with the OAS, which is now dominated by governments elected in the huge, peaceful, democratic, leftist (majorityist) revolution that has been sweeping Latin America--with leftist governments elected in Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Venezuela and Bolivia, and growing leftist movements in Peru (big), Nicaragua (big) and even in Columbia (still small but getting bigger). Some of the signs of the strength of this movement: Venezuela bailed Argentina out of World Bank debt; Argentina and Brazil are now engaged in talks on a common currency, to get off the dollar; the So. American leftist governments (virtually the entire continent) are apparently going to back Venezuela's bid for a seat on the UN Security Council next year (against everything Condi can do to stop it--they aren't buying it); Venezuela is now a full member of Mercosur, the So. American trade group that is working on regional self-determination and independence (mainly from the U.S.--whose only gifts to Latin America have been torture, oppression, murder and exploitation), following Hugo Chavez's policy of Bolivarianism (Bolivar, the great revolutionary hero, for whom Bolivia is named, believed in a United States of Latin America--but died too young to realize that dream).

If Mexico descends into bloodshed and violence it won't be the doing of the entirely peaceful protesters--in Oaxaca and other southern states, and in Mexico City. These protesters are highly organized, very grass roots community based, and will likely be able to maintain order in their ranks, as to provocations. They have done very well so far. In Oaxaca, they've already organized an alternative government--an uprising that was sparked by a brutal state government assault on striking teachers in June (in the middle of the night--they were camping out, in a protest), and has been further strengthened by the protesters' belief that the 2004 gubernatorial election was stolen. The ONLY violence has come from the police. The protesters have kept good order. And the same is true of the protesters in Mexico City--hundreds of thousands of people camped out in protest in the capital, with NO incidents and no confrontational behavior. They wisely backed off of a confrontation with Darth Vaders forces that Fox put round the capitol building so he could give a farewell speech--and, instead, members of Lopez Obrador's party in the legislature took over the stage and prevented Fox from speaking (he changed his plans, and was forced to give the speech on TV).

The protesters have moral right on their side--on both the election and on gross economic unfairness--and a strong leader in Lopez Obrador (and in other leaders as well--given that remarkable protest in congress). They don't NEED to do anything violent or destructive. They have the numbers; they have the cause. They can shut down Mexico. And only really bad fascist violence can stop them from doing so.

And, as I said, for all the fascism of the Bushites, that is NOT the trend in the rest of the Americas. The trend is overwhelmingly toward justice and peace, and equity for the poor. And I just don't think Fox/Calderon and their rich elite can buck that tide.

And we'll see about the Bushites.

--------------------------------------

As for a plan here, we had better get our own house in order, as to stolen elections. We need to bust the Bushite-controlled electronic voting machines. And how we do it is by MASSIVE Absentee Voting this fall. By FLOODING local election officials with MOUNTAINS of Absentee Ballot votes, we can create sufficient panic and crisis in the election theft industry, to FORCE reform NOW. It may not get us accurate vote counts in November (probably nothing can, at this point), but it WILL set the stage for RESTORING transparent, verifiable elections, and will save the '08 primaries and general election from Bushite corporate-controlled, "trade secret," proprietary vote counting.

It's a very North American kind of protest--suited to current social and political conditions here. It's easy. Everybody can do it. (Most states have some form of AB voting.) It doesn't involve meetings or street protests. It's a quiet individual decision to boycott the machines, by voting with an Absentee Ballot, that could be extremely powerful, if many people do it (and many already are--it's up to 50% in Los Angeles). If everybody who despises the Bush Junta (65% to 70%) votes by AB, the election theft industry will be over! Kaput. Fini. They can't operate this election theft system with only 30% e-voting.

Bust the Machines--Vote Absentee!

[Danascot]

30. How come Central and South America

gets lefty governments and we get these fundamentalist right wing assnuts. I mean, is that fair?

[Ouabache]

43. obviously Central & S. America know not to use Diebold

machines.

[Wiley50]

33. Yes, they're peaceful now,

Not sure if that can be sustained once a few hundred have been massacreed like in '88

And, as for your absentee voting protest
I'kk join in
but can't help thinking that Rove has contingency plans for the trainwreck
expected in Nov

[dkofos]

28. I'm having Nachos with my popcorn

[chaska]

32. As seen on a truckstop mensroom wall...

Not exactly on topic, but....

"The border crossed us." Obviously written by a Mexican. I think he's on to something.

Great thread, BTW.

[Wiley50]

34. Extra nice Graffiti catch, BTW n/t

[UTUSN]

35. It's not 'huge and unstoppable". All other parties/countries have accepted

Let's see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Mexico

The turnout was 58% and AMLO got 35% of that, which is 20% of the country's population. The idealistic posters here who keep referring to AMLO as "representing (ALL OF) Mexico" are just plain wrong. There was another news item today that said the campers in the Zocalo were dwindling in numbers.

*******QUOTE*******

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060908/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_other_government;_ylt=Al.zQ_GoWUXGUJhLXAe_hGu3IxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

.... Lopez Obrador has irritated many with a monthlong, traffic-snarling blockade of Mexico City's main downtown boulevard. The convention on Sept. 16 will decide whether to pull up the sprawling protest camps. ....

The main question is how long Lopez Obrador can keep mobilizing his followers. His actions already have alienated many and hurt the PRD. The same election Lopez Obrador terms fraudulent was the most successful ever for his party, making it the largest opposition force in Congress.

His call to ignore the federal government as illegitimate also poses a dilemma for PRD state and city governments, which depend heavily on funds from what Lopez Obrador calls "the regime of corruption and privileges."

One of three parties in Lopez Obrador's coalition, the tiny Convergence party, has started abandoning the movement's more radical positions.

For the moment, moderates in the PRD are "sort of stuck" because they can't afford to challenge Lopez Obrador's immense influence in the party, Estevez said. But the convention could help the party distance itself from its former presidential candidate by creating a separate vehicle for Lopez Obrador.

There also were questions about how democratic the convention would be. Fernandez said that it would operate on a show of hands, instead of taking formal votes. ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[Ken Burch]

45. That's an AP report. We can assume it's largely bullshit

The AP has always had a rabidly anti-left bias when it comes to Latin America.

[UTUSN]

48. Of course. Every single link that punctures the balloons

is said here to be biased. So are the personal experiences of those of us who have contacts with live Mexicans inside Mexico. So is the Wikipedia link introducing my opinion, correct? Everything that disproves the unfounded, fantasy, bloodthirsty thinking. Today's paper, also an AP report, says the numbers in the Zocalo contintue to drop and that polls show 68% disaprove of AMLO. But, of course, those polls are by definition biased.

For now I am indulgent of you beautiful idealists. If the poorest of the poor in Mexico start getting their blood shed, I will despise you.

[Ken Burch]

49. What would you suggest?

If AMLO stops and accepts the election results, the left dies. There's no chance to recover.
Why should he give up?

[Truthiness Inspector]

36. Honestly

I think your post is overkill. You lead from one thing to the next, only based on "what ifs."

How about a scenario where Mexico deals with it on their own, as they are a sovereign nation? Give Mexico a little more credit.

[Lifelong Protester]

37. Still, bloody or bloodless

how many 'democracies' can keep tolerating elections that are either stolen or tampered with so as to make 'stolen' the commonality? Even if a revolution does not happen now, the seeds for it are planted. One only has to read the history of Mexico to know...

[bhikkhu]

40. Hope for the best, hope for nonviolence

While it has been said that there is nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose, and Obrador's supporter have been so labeled, Mexico is far from a country of "the poor". There is a great deal to lose from an election contested. On the other hand, were Obrador to have a "Kerry moment" and just lay down for some imagined greater good, that is a blow to democracies everywhere (including here in the US). Hope for nonviolence, and for our own benign masters to not involve themselves.

[Wiley50]

50. Well, so far so good

He's told his people not to interfere with the Independece Day military parade.

The movement is decidedly non-violent.

I just don't know about the elites

[tomreedtoon]

41. Time to stock up on Mexican stoplight candy!

What do you mean, "time to make our move?" What does this have to do with anything involving America's problems, aside from the NAFTA business?

The only time Bush would ever take action against this is if there was something actually threatening the American borders, or something that would cut off the flow of money of his multinational corporate pals. And given the limited trust America has in the Bush administration now, there would be one hell of an uproar against any intervention at all.

[Jack Rabbit]

52. Support President Lopez, of course

We Americans know that allowing a chief executive from the right to seize power through electoral fraud is unhealthy for the body politic, a threat to public welfare and a danger to international peace.