Okay, am I crazy here or what?

[Mythsaje]

Though strident, the tone of this essay doesn't strike me as particularly offensive. Yet I've been attacked by people who seem to think it's their place to condemn "divisive" speech on gather, where I posted a copy of it.

I'm not sure what's so outrageous about what it has to say.

What do YOU think?

:banghead:

We can argue until the end of time what the founding fathers meant when they erected the wall between Church and State. Whether it was just to protect the Christian sects from one another, or if they actually meant to protect Jews, Muslims, Deists, and other Free Thinkers from those who would persecute them as well, doesn't matter now.

We're all here now, and we're not going away. This is OUR COUNTRY TOO.

You are all more than welcome to practice your religion in your home and your church the way your conscience dictates. But, by the same token, you have NO RIGHT to dictate to us how we choose to worship or not, or live our lives if we do not choose to live as you do.

We are all Americans, and we DEMAND tolerance. We, the Pagan, the Jew, the Muslim, the Rastafarian, the Gay. The agnostic and the atheist. We belong here. We are here. And, as much as you might wish we'd go away, we're not going anywhere. America belongs to ALL OF US.

ALL WE ASK is that you afford us the same respect you would want yourself. Do not push your religion in our faces, and we will do the same. Leave the public sector free of your beliefs, and we will do the same. You have no more right to erect a crucifix, or the ten commandments, on the land that belongs to all of us as we do to raise a Buddha, or a pentacle, in the town square.

This is not a Christian nation. It belongs to the adherants of NO religion in particular.

You do not have the right to enact laws that promote your religious beliefs over those of your neighbors. We will not allow it.

Attend your church, read your holy books, and teach your children as you will.

But we demand the right to do the same. And you're going to let us. You know why? Because this is America, and we are all equal here.

THAT is what America is all about.

And don't forget it. If you do, we will remind you.

Leave others their otherness.

That is what America means.

"They" hate us for our freedoms, some might say. Well, that's one of our freedoms.

And if we toss that freedom away, well, then they win.

And we KNOW you wouldn't want that, would you?

Leave others their otherness.

That's all we ask.

It isn't really that hard, is it?

:banghead:

Here's the link to the whole discussion, if you're interested in adding your two cents. It most likely requires you to sign up for gather to respond (there's a lot of DUers I'd love to see post over there, if only to help us gather liberals balance out the influx of FOX viewers who are about to be introduced to the site through commercials on FOX News and CNN.

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976787894

edited to fix a typo

[bryant69]

1. That seems very reasonable to me

Have you read The Godless Constitution by Isaac Kramnick and R. Laurence Moore? It's quite good - and it's particularly valuable in arguing that idea of a secular state and seperation of Church and State has deep roots in American history - roots that are at least as deep as those of the "Christian Nation" crowd.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tularetom]

2. I can't comment on your sanity but

your essay is well written, reasoned, and thought provoking. The reaction you describe is unfortunately all too typical of many who loudly bleat their "christianity" to any plea for tolerance.

[Demit]

3. Welp, my take is that you wrote this in the style of a manifesto, and

that's why it's eliciting the reaction it is on that website. I assume that the reason the site is called 'gather' is that its purpose is inclusiveness? (I couldn't tell, there's no About Us link that I could see.) Your essay is forceful, and direct--especially because of your use of the second person. I would stand by it if I were you. You got people who understood it. And don't forget there are always going to be people in an online forum situation who either are contrarian by nature or who see belligerence when it isn't there and react belligerently.

[Greyhound]

4. Seems perfectly reasonable to me, therefore it must be subversive

anti-religious, anti-amerikan, heresy. At least thats what they always tell me.

Keep fighting the good fight, we are not alone.

[Jacobin]

5. Divisive?

I don't see how.

With the fundies, anyone who doesn't worship Bush and believe Jerry Falwell walks on water is 'divisive', so I'd just chalk it up to talking to idiots.

[sweetheart]

6. noble revisionism

Yet we know that the country was been overwhelmingly influenced by protestant and catholic,
christianity, in politics much, where womens right to vote and stamping out of infectious
diseases was championed by religious groups, and really, to say that religion should not be
part of ones politics is absurd. Ones religion advises ones morals and ethics that reflect
directly in ones politics.

The issue is not that religion will have an ongoing influence in politics, but that the system
of winner-take-all politics has reached its useful end, and whichever religion in power has no
right to wage a war of extermination and denial against all those not in power. Its become
the new religion, this waging war on your neighbor, threatening to kill them for not joining
in the new righteiousness; winner-take-all has left us all wanting.

[porphyrian]

7. It's divisive because you actually stand up for yourself.

And you don't apologize for not agreeing with them throughout, allowing them to believe you're just misled.