All makes sense...Rove is GAY (not that there's anything wrong with that)

[Atman]

This article had a "Newsday" by-line in my daily paper, but Newsday.com had no mention of it I could find. It is about the new book about Karl Rove, in which it is revealed that he spends time with his gay stepfather, dining with he and his buddies at a gay men's retirement community. Cool. He's a good step-son, I guess. But it sure has to make you wonder about the self-loathing going on inside a man who would claim to be supportive of his stepfather while doing everything in his power to marginalize him as a full citizen of the United States.

Self-loathing. Jeff Gannon. All the single men in the administration. Bush's wave. It all begins to make sense. This is basically a totally gay administration, and they're using legislation the way Swaggart used to use the pulpit...to make you think they aren't the very thing they're railing against. Classic.

(EDIT to add link...

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2006/09/05/2 )

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. and I'll bet that his hero is J Edgar.

then, it would all make sense.

[Richardo]

2. 'Bush's wave'?

:shrug:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nye Bevan]

25. I know several gay men who do not wave like that

This post strikes me as a little homophobic.

[readmoreoften]

27. A "very wealthy gay man who has never done a day's work"

Why GAY? Wouldn't a "very wealthy straight man" have the same sort of uncalloused hands?

This post is seriously fucked up and offensive.

[rpannier]

3. The only thing wrong with it

(if rove is gay) is how he uses homophobia to advance his programs.

[Atman]

5. That is EVERYTHING wrong with it!

Exactly my point.

[terrya]

8. That's right.

IF Karl Rove is gay, the only problem stemming from it is pushing a rabidly homophobic agenda...such as a discriminatory Constitutional amendment. That's the sole problem here.

[warrens]

15. Among the most vicious gay-hating wingnuts ever

Were Roy Cohn and J. Edgar Hoover.

[onenote]

19. would his use of homophobia be more defensible if he was straight?

[Double T]

6. This ENTIRE ADMINISTRATION is nothing but............

a bunch of phony, lying, fraudulent GIANT HYPOCRITES!!!!!

[Bridget Burke]

7. Barf. The image of Rove having ANY kind of sexual relationship....

Is not what I needed so early in the morning.

I do find most of Bush's regime physically repellent. How can any of them "Get Some" without having to pay? (Whichever sort of "Some" they might prefer.)

[Chiyo-chichi]

9. The author (Wayne Slater) was on Fresh Air w/Terri Gross yesterday

You can listen here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5775226

Rove refers to his step-father (though I believe he is deceased now?) as his "father." He was the only father he ever knew.

Slater did not ask Rove how he reconciles his love for his gay father with his anti-gay campaign/policy initiatives.

[readmoreoften]

28. Having a gay parent does not mean that you're gay.

(I'm not saying that you're saying it does, I'm responding to this thread in general.)

Lord knows, everyone is itching for Karl to be gay so we can have a big party of "ass and balls" jokes at DU and pretend we're calling out "hypocrisy" and not engaging in flaming homophobia. But children of gays and lesbians are no less likely to be gay than parents of gays and lesbians.

[Chiyo-chichi]

29. Of course it doesn't.

And you make a good point.

[leveymg]

10. Not without precedent. Lavender Bundists, The SA . . .

[The Deacon]

11. This Is A Blatant Lie!

"Everybody knows" Rove sexually molests small barnyard animals.

[leveymg]

12. Whatever fits.

Rove's tastes seem to run to the large and sloppy, actually.

[Atman]

14. So "some people say."

I heard 'em. Really.

[leveymg]

18. Save the whales.

[beyurslf]

13. You heteros can't shove him off on us... we don't want him. He doesn't

know the secret handshake to get into the club anyway.

[Atman]

16. But I hear he really grooves at the club meetings.

Something about him playing a mean trombone. Or was that a rusty trombone? I'm not up on the lingo the gays use these days, but apparently he's a pretty good musician.

;)

[Greeby]

17. It's like Mike Malloy said

If Clinton was the "first black president" then Shrub is the "first gay president"

[skypilot]

20. I really wish that this would stop happening at DU.

I'm well aware that there are and always have been closeted gay men working for evil administrations and regimes but in my time at DU I've seen too many posts where people speculate that one of their most despised Bush administration officials or some other right-wing operative is gay. There have even been a number of "Is George Bush Gay?" threads. It's starting to sound like a very pat explanation for the behavior of some politico or operative that we don't like: "So and So might be gay?", "He's clearly a closet case, look at his mustache".

I'm not kidding I've seen this kind of thing much too often here.

[Atman]

21. This isn't about the gay, it's about the hypocrisy.

I could give a rat about Karl's sexuality, quite frankly, or anyone else's. But when Rove and company choose to stay in the closet and actively campaign to restrict and repeal the rights of Americans based entirely upon their own sexuality, and when they use the issue in the most cynical fashion to divide the nation for their political gain, then I think it is something worthy of mention. You are reading much into this which wasn't inferred or implied.

[skypilot]

22. I quite understand the whole hypocrisy thing...

...the point of my post is that these "Is so and so gay" thread gets started without any proof that the person being speculated about is indeed gay. I understand the hypocrisy in having gay friends and family and yet pursuing an anti-gay agenda, but too often here at DU focusing on the hypocrisy doesn't seem to be enough. The villain himself must be gay.

And as for my reading too much into your post, I wasn't basing my post solely on yours. Like I said, this speculating about which villains are gay is something I've seen for quite some time here.

[emulatorloo]

23. What makes you think Karl Rove is "self-loathing?"

The sense I get is that he damn impressed with himself.

[Atman]

24. It's all a facade!

He goes home at night and fills his fat face with Malomars, fast-forwarding through his stack of 1970's era gay porn, wondering why he's home alone again on a Friday night while W and the big boys are out on the town with all the twinks. He's miserable. You can see it in his eyes!

:7

[readmoreoften]

26. God! Heterosexual people are so perfect! They are NEVER EVIL!

Who does all the gay bashing? GAY PEOPLE. Gay people who just don't accept themselves.

Who is controlling society? GAY PEOPLE. Evil closeted gay people who are twisted by all the other evil closeted gay people who wounded them with their self-hate.

Straight people never do ANYTHING wrong. The whole world is being destroyed by gay people who can't accept themselves. I suppose that self-hatred in gays must be genetic too, because there were never any straights to teach them that being gay is wrong.

Heterosexual people are always righteous and truthful and strong. They never heard anyone.

[Nye Bevan]

30. They also have manly waves

and their wrists never flop.

[Atman]

32. Good. Then let's not talk about them!

I was talking about Bush and Rove. Who are you talking about, and why?

[Nye Bevan]

37. I am talking about bigoted homophobia

equating being gay with "little finger-twinkles", "wrists flopping back and forth" and "soft supple hands".

Why? Because I don't like to see this kind of crap on DU.

[donco6]

36. And they are never homophobic unless they're compensating.

In fact, homophobia doesn't really exist. It's all just a latent expression of fear.

[Atman]

31. I never said any of the stuff you're freaking out about.

I wasn't speaking about everybody. I was speaking of a particular lunatic in Washington. If all you knee-jerkers want to get all freaked out and try to make it about everybody, go ahead. I was speaking of Rove, not everybody.

[skypilot]

34. "I was speaking of Rove, not everybody."

And just speaking about Rove in this manner is problematic. I don't know what I missed but I don't understand how a story about Rove having a gay stepfather ever lead to a subject line reading: All makes sense... Rove is GAY

What exactly "makes sense"?? Is his villainy somehow explained by his alleged gayness? And frankly, your declaration cleaves a little too closely to the myth that a gay parent (biological/step-/foster/adoptive) will result in a gay child.

[donco6]

35. Amen.

If someone is evil, it's certainly because they're really GAY! After all, straight people would never be that evil, nor would they be homophobic.

Ugh. I just hate this shit.

[Atman]

40. "Ugh, I just hate this shit."

Then stop making it up, because I never said anything like it.

[donco6]

42. Whatever you say, man.

I'm sure it's my fault for being so sensitive. I must be gay, too.

Wait! I am!

[Bluebear]

48. IT ALL MAKES SENSE then! nt

[LeftCoast]

33. Atman, I'm sure you're a wonderful person, but this post is BS

I am so tired of all the gay slurs that people think are ok to sling. And for the record, there's no fucking hypocrisy here because Rove isn't GAY.

:argh:

[Atman]

39. How do you know Rove isn't gay?

I am totally serious, this has turned into PC-ism run amok. First of all, the tone of my op was about as light hearted as it gets. Of course "it all makes sense!" is silly and meaningless! That is pretty much the point, I guess. I don't know who has the bigger problem here, but I'm actually more inclined to chalk it up to the inherent inability of a message board post to accurately convey emotion. When I first read the story, I pictured Karl sitting around the gay men's retirement community with his step father, and then I thought of the crap he pulled on America during 2004, and I said to my wife "Of course! It all makes sense! The gay reporter in the White House..." etc.

My point being, the massive overcompensation one could easily argue Rove was experiencing.

It was all lighthearted speculation, and as usual, the name calling here begins. I didn't call anyone anything, but suddenly I am "homophobic" for posting about a story that was in all the major newspapers. You (inclusive of all, I'm not singleing you out, LC) feel knowledgeable enough about me to place your own labels as you castigate me for using labels, and call me "homophobic" when you don't even know me, you don't know my sexual preferences, you don't know that as an artist having worked a significant portion of my career in the women's fashion industry, gay men and women are pretty much my circle of friends. I'm not sure why I am explaining myself to anyone here, except for that I am also damned tired of the PC police telling me the meaning of my words.

I find the mental image of Karl Rove, the supposed most powerful man in Washington, sitting around a pool in in his speedos in the Arizona dessert having dinner at the Gay Men's Retirement Village to be, frankly, kind of humorous. I make no apologies to anyone for it.

[LeftCoast]

41. You're absolutely correct. I don't know you. However, I do have your words

to go by. You used being gay as a slur against Rove. That's homophobic. I'm sorry, but that's how it is. The fact that you think it's funny to think about Rove as a gay man should make you think about your own internalized views of other gay men. As an out gay man, I'm probably a fucking laugh-riot for you.

[Atman]

43. You can read my words or continue to make stuff up.

Why would I consider anything about you funny? I know nothing about you, nor you of me. Karl Rove and George Bush, however, are public figures we know lots about. Including their own apparent homophobia, exhibited in their old campaign stand-by issue. But you keep right on ignoring my words, making up your own conclusions contrary to what I said. In fact, you might as well ignore my posts completely if you're just going to make up stuff anyway. Just go on and make up anything about me that makes you feel justified in wallowing in your persecution complex.

Once again...you simply don't know me, and one silly post on DU will not define me.

[LeftCoast]

50. Your words:

"I find the mental image of Karl Rove, the supposed most powerful man in Washington, sitting around a pool in in his speedos in the Arizona dessert having dinner at the Gay Men's Retirement Village to be, frankly, kind of humorous. I make no apologies to anyone for it."

[Atman]

51. Thank you, but I saw them the first time.

In fact, I wrote them! Thanks for showing them to me again. I hadn't gone back and re-read all my posts yet.

[donco6]

46. How can this guy be so thick?

He just doesn't get it. And now we're "victims". I say it again, "Ugh, I hate this shit."

[Bluebear]

45. "PC-ism run amok" . . .PC is the right's excuse for insensitivity. nt

[skypilot]

47. If it was all just a matter of lighthearted speculation and

...an image that you found "kind of humorous" you might have said that earlier instead of posting:

"...when Rove and company choose to stay in the closet and actively campaign to restrict and repeal the rights of Americans based entirely upon their own sexuality..."

I'm not calling you homophobic but, still, these "light-hearted" posts about the sexual orientation of people we don't like have become tedious and kind of offensive. If yours had been the first and only one we might not be having this discussion but like I've said these kinds of speculations happen often here and they are not always light-hearted.

[raysr]

38. What's wrong is Rove's father was gay

and he was OK with that fact. Then he goes to the loony right and makes a false wedge issue about gay marriage. That's what's wrong with Rove. His acceptance of his father's sex-pref should be painted on every media outlet there is! The hypocracy, the hypocracy!

[mitchtv]

44. What unadulterated horseshit

When it comes time to demonize someone ...."HE'S GAY"
no he's a typical RW straight man.

[patcox2]

49. Politics, as a field, is about as gay as ice dancing, musical theater.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, I was just amazed and astounded, being a naive country boy, to see that as a heterosexual I was a minority when I walked down the halls of a congressional office building or ate in the cafeteria. My ex-governor was no fluke.

[Laughing Mirror]

Rove's stepfather is white

La plume de ma tante.

[mvd]

52. Locking

From the rules:

"When discussing race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, or other highly-sensitive personal issues, please exercise the appropriate level of sensitivity toward others and take extra care to clearly express your point of view."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

mvd
DU Moderator