If Michael Moore's 'Fahrenheit 9/11' is so full of lies... where are they?

[devilgrrl]

I ask this because several freeper posts to the ABC blog bring the topic of 'F 9/11' as a propaganda piece. Now, I always thought propaganda was when you just made shit up and broadcast it as the truth. I've seen 'F 9/11' twice and the only negative I could find is that I didn't learn anything new that I didn't already know before seeing it. So you tell where the lies were... because I don't recall any.

[greyl]

1. There were 4 things in it that were a bit misleading by my count.

The name of the book bush was reading at Booker wasn't My Pet Goat. The story was called The Pet Goat, and it was in a collection.
The fake headline that "Gore Won!". edit: yes, I know it was a device during the 'dream' sequence /edit
Umm, I've forgotten the other two.

Huge lies, eh? ;)

[underpants]

20. "Saddam never tried to harm a single American"

something along those lines is stated by Moore. I think that Saddam is considered to have tried to kill Bush 41 at one point (forgot in what country the car bombing was) after he left the POTUS.

That is the only thing I have ever heard that was close to not being true.

[K8-EEE]

2. I've Asked EVERY Moore-Bashing Freeper That Question

and I give them MM's site because the whole script is on there witht he sourcing; they used to say "oh, the BL's didn't really leave before most people could fly" but the 9/11 commish found this was accurate.

They always either shut up or resort to "he draws conclusions from the facts that aren't necessarily facts." Well hell what is a documentary but making the director's case by real life footage? They are so stupid. They then resort to using the wrong definition of "documentary" (like 'documentary evidence' in a trial, ie, unbiased.) I documentary film can and SHOULD have a strong point of view!! Any film that doesn't have people acting out a script is a doc, you morons! Otherwise you could just let a camera run and call it a docmentary film. UUUGHH!! THEY ARE JUST SO FUCKING STUPID!

[sakabatou]

3. Here's a shitty site for ya

The "Facts" of Mike's movie: http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/

[Luminous Animal]

7. Indeed. "Facts" for the ignorant. (n/t)

[warrens]

18. Wow, reading that site is REAL interesting

The best they can do is set up a straw man (Moore evidently feels that blah blah, but the real facts are blah blah). They tried to disprove the Oregon coast segment, then find out not only is it true but worse than Moore said. So what do they do? They say, that's not DHS's fault. Well, it is, because DHS is responsible for everything the states can't or won't do. They spend millions on a park in Wyoming, not a dime on the Oregon coast. Moore is right, they're flat-out wrong.

[Luminous Animal]

4. Factual back up

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16

Debunking the so-called 59 deceits.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/1942/00222

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/125810/5754

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/7/35821/91470

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/7/175530/4378

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/8/18424/43142

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/9/1339/05561

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/10/153142/328

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2004/7/20/18926/6104

[SoCalDem]

5. The difference between the two films is GLARING

Moore shows the actual people SAYING and DOING..there is no "portrayal"..no "actors" or re-enactments.

That's what makes documentaries what they are.. It's REAL...not faked..

It's hard for someone to deny they said something, when you have them on camera SAYING IT..or when the things you say, have verifiable hard-copy documentation to back you up..

This is a propaganda, GOP commercial, to "remind" people that poor little georgie just has bad luck.. that HE's not responsible for ANYTHING..it's always someone else's fault..

[Oeditpus Rex]

6. I've always wondered

if Moore solicited only interview subjects who'd keep to his meme, or if he edited any comments that didn't "fit." I'd imagine he did both.

But that isn't "lying," it simply isn't being "fair and balanced." And, since it's hardly a secret that Moore has an agenda, he doesn't have to be. He makes films representative of how he sees things, and how many others see them. He isn't producing a news program and doesn't pretend to.

[Luminous Animal]

8. RE: meme

Please don't use that ridiculous word "meme' when you mean "point of view".

The term "meme" (IPA: , not "mem"), coined in 1976 by Richard Dawkins, refers to a unit of cultural information that can be transmitted from one mind to another. Dawkins said, Examples of memes are tunes, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or of building arches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

If anything, Mike is the anti-meme. For example, a meme does not have to be rooted in fact (or even in the pursuit of fact) to have a cultural impact. Moore's movies and books seek to have a impact rooted upon facts.

[cyclezealot]

9. Me too. Nothing new. Just well presented.

Well, we did learn Bush's national guard friend who guided BUsh around major pot holes in the road that could have derailed his career.
My repug acquaintances, do not doubt the movies accuracy, they said it just was presented in a slanderous way? Moore takes great pride in his documentation. Want documentation, just go to the Moore web site, stating where he got his information from.It's all well laid out as to his sources.

[eShirl]

10. for starters, Bush isn't walking on water

and the sun isn't shining out of his *

[chat_noir]

11. "Will they ever trust us again?"

Last minutes of Michael Moore documentary Fahrenheit 9-11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWsW6rdj_CM

[chat_noir]

12. My Pet Goat - are they saying that is is a lie?

Bush reads while America is under attack


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU-XodfXTao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGEwTJDX4o

[elperromagico]

13. From what I gathered, a lot of people objecting to it never saw it. nt

[Sven77]

14. He didnt report on the tough issues

like Norad standing down. this portrays Bush as somewhere in the incompetent, lihop, mihop theroies. i guess he got what he could out.

[elperromagico]

15. I think his target audience was people who hadn't been paying attention.

Frankly, I wasn't all that impressed with the film because I was familiar with most of the information. But I know people who've seen it - people who don't pay close attention to politics - who were very surprised by it.

[devilgrrl]

16. I'm not seeing any lies exposed...

let's kick this for the day crowd and see if they can find anything.

[geek tragedy]

17. Moore doesn't lie so much as he deals in innuendoes and

half-baked associations.

The whole "we invaded Afghanistan because of a pipeline" deal is a classic example.

[rinsd]

19. Propaganda doesn't need to be lies

It is simply a device to get people thinking a certain way.

For instance during WW2 we used variousforms of propaganda both at home and abroad. At home it would be patriotic duty stuff and the litany of movies that came out. Abroad we attacked Hitler as a sexual deviant who couldn't get it up.

F 9/11 is propaganda(probabaly more accurately defined as agitprop though it wasn't that ideological) in the sense that Michael Moore wants you to absolutely despise Bush after viewing the film.