Casey isn't pro-choice?

[Horse with no Name]

Blechh...

[SharonRB]

1. No, he's not, but he's better than

Rick "man on dog" Santorum.

[liberalnurse]

9. I am disappointed that the PaDems

settled for Casey......

[WinkyDink]

86. Here are some reasons:

1. NAME recognition.
2. NAME recognition.
3. Respected politician father of the SAME NAME.
4. "Pennachio" is WAY too similar to "Pinocchio". Yeah, sad, but true.

[radfringe]

131. the other reason

I'm originally from Massachusetts (the western part of the state)... I moved to PA about 9 years ago


When I heard the following quote from James Carville - it cleared up my minor bouts with culture shock

"You have Pittsburg on one end of the state, Philadelphia on the other and Alabama in the middle..."

[LynneSin]

165. hell that's 1950 Alabama in the middle

I know you know that from the area where you live, I grew up in that area as a kid.

The current state of Alabama is still more progressive that the "T" of Pennsylvania

[Buzz Clik]

96. Agreed!

[LynneSin]

116. I'm still thinking a deal was cut with Casey

Casey wins the senate seat, serves for 4 years and then the party backs him as the soul candidate for governor in 2010. Perhaps Casey puts someone like Joe Hoeffel on the ticket to finish the term and be the front runner for 2012

Casey isn't a senator, he's a governor. He wants his dad's old job and like dear old dad, he'll run 4 times just to get that win.

[Tesha]

122. Casey has no soul; he already sold it!

> then the party backs him as the soul candidate for governor in 2010

Casey has no soul; he already sold it!

The Dems were fools to run him.

Tesha

[LynneSin]

140. Yeah, I know but if the plan works Santorum is gone

and Casey is gone in 2010. Although personally I'd rather have an anti-choice democrat in DC than in PA.

We have to start rebuilding the party from the ground up, not the top down. Pennachio was a really great guy and would have made a great senator, but with little name recognition or money even I knew the guy didn't have a chance.

I always look to Bernie Sanders as the key to success in winning without toeing the partyline. He basically started as a Mayor and built his trust and his position from there. Now the guy, a lifetime independant, is a shoo-in for US Senate. We need to build Bernie Sanders in the democratic party and that means getting them in the local offices and building name recognizition

[Ravenseye]

154. I'm disapointed that people only seem to care now

During the PA primary people many people here outright dismissed Pennachio, Casey's opponent, and other people didn't care. If you're just joining the conversation now, it's a few months too late. There are many DU'er's here who actively fought for Pennachio, but are now solidly behind Casey because he's far superior to Santorum. If you weren't involved months ago, it's a bit too late to complain now about how we 'settled' for him, when practicaly nobody before cared enough to donate to Pennachio.

[LynneSin]

164. I wasn't sure about Pennachio until I met the guy

I would have voted for him in the primaries but I'm in Delaware

But I hope the guy runs again - we need more dems like him.

[Ravenseye]

174. nearly everyone that met him promised him their vote

Very few people met Pennachio and then went back over to the Casey camp. Doesn't matter now though. Casey is our man and we need to get behind him to defeat Mr. Man on Dog. Casey is still a far better candidate than Santorum ever will be.

[SharonRB]

189. I met him in DC last year and really liked him

I'm sorry he didn't get the nomination.

:hi: Lynne

[LynneSin]

193. Yeah, he came to the fundie repuke fest in North Philly

Where James Dobson, Jerry Falwell and Rick Santorum actually showed up at a predominantly African American church trying to convince them why they are good.

Ironically most of the people who left out of the front door were white.

We even talked about the party

[liberaldemocrat7]

114. Casey's campaign Slogan: Vote for me and get a coat hanger for free.

Casey's campaign Slogan: Vote for me and get a coat hanger for free.

[LynneSin]

155. So how would it help voting for Rick Santorum or his Green Party stooge?

Here we go again.

Casey is anti-choice but given his position he would probably not be put on any committee where he could do any damage and if we got the democratic majority his opinion would almost be mute since our Judicary Committee with a majority has been pretty reliable with smacking down radical judges

Wow, all in one sentence too

Casey would never actively get rid of RoeVWade but would also not support it if the issue came to vote. Since we need JUDGES to overturn RoeVWade, not SENATORS and even anti-choice senators like Harry Reid have supported those filibusters, please stop the drama.

WE're here to support democrats, Bob Casey won his primary.

Please, if you're here to help get Rick Santorum elected (and trust me, voting Green is the same exact thing since Romanelli was bought and paid for by Rick Santorum and that's very well documented), please consider again what you are saying.

Primaries overwith and basically there are only 2 choices: Santorum (either by voting for him or for the Green) or Casey.

You really want Santorum again?

[ananda]

2. I think Casey's only virtue..

.. is that he isn't Santorum.

[geek tragedy]

5. He's very pro-labor and pro-environment.

There's very little actual harm--if any at all--that he can do on the abortion issue.

And he's definitely a vast improvement over Little Ricky.

[Warpy]

34. There is a great deal of harm he can do

in approving anti aboriton judges at all levels.

Sorry guys, but throwing half the voting population back into slavery is not going to work. Half the population IS A BIG DEAL.

The "triangulators" in the DLC obviously thought Casey would appeal to religious conservatives in central Pa. They were wrong, as they usually are, because those conservative voters are already a lock for Santorum.

[Horse with no Name]

39. Given the right set of circumstances

There is indeed a lot of harm he can do.

[geek tragedy]

42. Harry Reid is pro-life/anti-choice. He hasn't exactly

been a big help the anti-abortion crowd.

[MessiahRp]

66. He hasn't been a big help to any Democrats

Reid has been a spine quivering fool for most of the time since he became minority leader.

Rp

[geek tragedy]

71. Yeah, if you say so. eom

[MessiahRp]

108. Hmmm.. Reid has always backed away from real Dems

propositions such as the Iraq resolutions offered by Kerry & Feingold. He was the lightning rod for the Tom DeLay scandal as the one Dem they could point to as being involved in any form. Reid has been weak. Heck Rove basically cam out and said after he called Lieberman that he regularly has Reid over for dinner.

I don't think that's a stretch to say he hasn't been a good leader.

Rp

[geek tragedy]

126. How can a bill be a "real Democratic" bill if a majority of Democrats

in the Senate didn't vote for it?

And the Abramoff stuff is pure bullshit. Sad to see people on our side swallowing it.

[LynneSin]

137. MY GOD ARE YOU DENSE

No democrat EVER took money from Abramoff. Hell that was all over OPENSECRETS where you can look up any record of contributions.

Our only connection with the Abramoff scandal and a very very weak connection is that local tribes have always donated to various candidates. Patrick Kennedy is a democrat who, if I'm correct received probably the most money from tribes caught up in the Abramoff scandal BUT he gets that money because of his tireless work in promoting Native American Rights & Issues, not supporting Abramoff.

The tribes trusted Abramoff to help them get casinos built and gave him money. Then Abramoff used that money to give to democrats. However, many democrats also received tribe money from those same tribes but DIRECTLY from the tribe, not through Abramoff

Please, stop buying into the repuke talking point. He has about as much to do with Jack Abramoff as I do

[LynneSin]

83. Minority Leader

Think if we were majority leader and had an all pro-choice Judicary Committee (which btw, we have now).

Wow, imagine not having to fight for a filibuster when the buck will stop back in Judiciary

We wouldn't find anything useful for that would we

:grr:

[geek tragedy]

91. I'd rather have a so-so majority leader than an outstanding

minority leader.

[LynneSin]

99. I think Reid will be fine

The problem that escapes so many people here at DU is the senate floor votes are an absolute joke. SOmething like 84% of them are bills that were primary written by Republicans to support Republican causes. The real guts of the senate and house is the committees and you need the majority in order to get your bills on the floor and up for the vote. And it's the committees that will determine the fate of RoeVWade, not some mystical power that Bob Casey is going to inflict when elected. He'll probably have very little to do with the choice issue except for an occasional floor vote, which probably won't happen that often. He won't have many opportunities to vote on judges since any judge deemed to radical will be stopped in committee. And he most definately will not be placed on the Judiciary Committee. Democrats know that would be the kiss of death for the party to have an anti-choice democrat possibly helping the republicans. Best put Casey on commmittees where he'll do good for the country, especially Labor!

[geek tragedy]

106. I hear ya.

A Senate majority would mean that we could kill all of those nominations in committee.

It would mean that our bills, not theirs, would be coming to the floor of the Senate.

[Hippo_Tron]

138. Not to mention the conference committees

Any possible progress made on the floor is erased in conference committee which has entirely GOP membership from the House side under DeLay's rules of "order".

[LynneSin]

82. So is John Murtha - better get rid of him

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

SNAP!

G'on girl!

[CollegeDUer]

188. Hasn't been a big help to anyone except the GOP

An ineffective leader with ineffective criticisms.

[question everything]

69. Yes, him and TN Ford

Abortion is not mentioned in his resume, but it is bad, nonetheless:

The Congressman who is running to replace retiring Bill Frist as Senator from Tennessee has voted to outlaw gay marriage and to repeal the estate tax, and wants to amend the Constitution to ban flag burning. He supports getting rid of the handgun ban in the nation's capital and says the Ten Commandments should be posted in courtrooms around his state. He favors school prayer, argues that more troops should have been sent to Iraq and wants to seal the border with Mexico.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1223381,00.html

[LynneSin]

75. Yeah, I know about Ford too - seems he doesn't get villified on DU

Thank goodness. I'm not keen on Ford but I know Tennessee is a different state with it's own unique voting ways.

This is all Santorum working here in this thread. Buy a 3rd party candidate to force the issue and divide the vote. I remember when he first mentioned about needing 3rd party candidates on the ticket, which was about a month before the Romanelli deal, that Rick was putting feelers out there for his donors to chalk up some cash and a person so slimy that he would call himself Green and let Rick Santorum pay for him

[Clark2008]

88. Your quote doesn't say a thing about abortion.

In any case, Ford is pro-choice, but he is for restrictions, such as parental/court notification and a ban on late-term abortions (if the mother's life is not threatened).

Still heads and shoulders above ANY Republican running in this state, especially Corker, who changed his pro-choice stance to anti-choice so he could win the Republican nomination for US Senate.

[Hippo_Tron]

136. As long as he doesn't sit on the judiciary committee, we're fine

And I think that Leahy will make sure that happens. Remember, once we get the majority back, decisions about judges won't be made by the entire Senate. They will be made by the 10 Democratic Senators on the judiciary committee.

[Warpy]

3. No, he spouts the Catholic party line and is strictly antichoice

with no exceptions.

I kept telling people he was going to be trouble.

Any real Democrat would have easily defeated the continuously bungling Santorum. He's made so many blunders a lot of people are fed up.

Casey just doesn't offer them enough of an alternative, especially the female half of the voters.

[Horse with no Name]

6. I wouldn't vote for him

I am sick and fucking tired of these white-bread male politicians making my reproductive choices.
Fuck him. If he has a "D" behind his name...it is obviously a mistake.
He isn't better than Santorum.
I just lost interest in the PA race.

[LynneSin]

11. WooHoo - Another DUer for Rick Santorum

:woohoo: :woohoo:

Hey, I'm stuck with Tom "I'm supporting Joe Lieberman" Carper on my senate ticket this fall. Of course he's done this after it was too late to try and field an opponent that knows what the democratic party is all about.

I'll still vote for the asshole and I will remember 6 years from now what he did.

Do you know why PA ran Bob Casey - because they figured he was the best chance of defeating Santorum and they know that Casey's first choice isn't the senate but the governor seat. So I highly doubt that Casey is a lifer in the senate. I could even see him running for governor in 2010 (and picking his democratic sucessor to finish out his term).

[Horse with no Name]

13. Nice rhetoric. Like saying you don't support choice.

What I said is I wouldn't vote for either of them.
Women's rights are on the brink of extinction.
You get enough of these asses in power, they will be gone.
Pennsylvania is status quo for women's rights with either Santorum OR Casey.
It is an unimportant race.

[LynneSin]

16. That's what you're doing

I hope your kids & grandkids who you are so concerned about their choice appreciate that you did absolutely nothing to stop the one man hellbent on destroy their choice.

Casey is anti-choice but he's not hellbent. His areas of expertise, where he'll probably serve on the senate committees will be Labor and Environment (and we want him there too)

[ComerPerro]

24. Well, I am glad that's the only issue for you

[Horse with no Name]

35. It's not the only issue

But the most important to me.
If I can't entrust our Democratic politicians to stand up for my rights, then he is worthless.

[ComerPerro]

44. You said so yourself, many times in this thread, and even right here

that if a Dem isn't lock-step pro-choice the exact way you want, you won't vote for him.

So, if that is your make or break issue, no matter what the other stances are, then guess what, that's your only issue.

Its all you've got.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LynneSin]

68. False choices - sweetie, Rick Santorum LOVESLOVES you

He probably has goons who monitor this site and just adoring the fact that we are helping defeat our own cause and helping him to peel away voters.

You are Rick Santorum's wet dreams

What are you going to tell your kids when choice is gone forever? "Yes kiddies, choice was soooo important to me that I didn't give two shits about democratic majority and an all pro-choice judiciary committee majority to elect a democrat that will help the overall big picture. I figured we already had Rick Santorum so why not another 6 years"

You are your children and all children's WORST NIGHTMARE

I weep for the lost of choice you are willing to do. Casey is not hellbent to get rid of RoeVWade, Rick Santorum is.

[Horse with no Name]

73. NOT nearly as much as he loves you BABY!!

Just think...having "supposed" Democrats attack other Democrats because they oppose an anti-choice candidate.
That's his wet dream.

[ComerPerro]

76. you aren't even supporting the Democratic candidate.

[LynneSin]

79. Why, I wouldn't vote Santorum directly or indirectly

And it is his wet dream - he paid for it by the name of Carl Romanelli. A green on the ballot with 100k of Santorum & friends money and a fist full of falsified signatures.

Get your head out of the sand. I didn't start this - I saw the big picture and knew Casey could remove Santorum. Santorum just knew there were idiots like you who would buy into the package.

I'm guessing Santorum is thinking that's the best 100k he ever spent buying folks like you with the false perception of "Choice will be saved if I don't vote for Bob Casey". Well who the hell will win if we don't vote for Casey?

BTW, former NARAL president Kay Michaelson was considering an independant run for PA US Senate and even she backed away because of the ramifications of dividing the vote and keeping Santorum in office

[ComerPerro]

74. you really, seriously, need to get over yourself

I am starting to think you don't even actually care about the right to choose, as much as you care about invoking moral superiority. In that regard, you seem just as bad to me as the supposed pro-lifers.

By the way, just for the record, when was the last time that Roe v. Wade was SERIOUSLY challenged, and the right to choose was actually in peril?

Someone mentioned, BTW, that Casey does support abortion rights in first trimester, especially in cases of rape and incest.

Can you say that about Santorum?



And, no, as long as you persist in this childish additude, I don't care about what is important to you, because you seem to lack some of the most very basic and fundimental understandings of politics that are necessary to function in this kind of environment (as a minority party).

Moreover, your suggestion that I would act just like you if there were an issue at risk that I cared about is just nonsense. You don't even know me. I live in Kansas, a state where there are essentially two political parties, and neither one is Democrat. We have fanatical fundies and Moderate Republicans. My district, with my help, has managed to send a Dem to Congress for several years. He is moderate, to say the least, and I don't agree with his soft positions on this war. But you know what? He is a Dem, and when I compare him to the sleaze being promoted by Republicans, I am damn proud to support him.

[Horse with no Name]

78. As soon as you get over YOURSELF.

Methinks that isn't happening anytime soon...

[LynneSin]

80. What because he is fighting for Democratic Majority

While you fight for six more years of Rick Santorum.

[Horse with no Name]

87. How much straw do you have?

Cause you are making numerous strawmen at a pretty fast pace.
I FIGHT for CHOICE, not Santorum.

[LynneSin]

110. I'd love some straw but you're hogging it all

Please tell me how voting for Santorum (or in you're twisted words, not voting for Casey, which people with a brain knows that means you're helping Santorum) protect choice.

YOu don't even have a clue about how the senate works. Do you think Casey will be on the judiciary committee ESPECIALLY if we get majority? That's the ONLY way Casey can somehow destroy choice. You make it sound like Casey is some sort of Godzilla that when he gets to DC he's going to destroy everything in his site related to choice. He's not. The guy is a Labor expertise who will probably end up on that commitee and a few others that have NOTHING to do with choice. If we get the majority, John Kerry will get back his Judiciary seat he gave up when we lost a seat and any judicial nomination too radical (ie - anti-choice) will get stopped in committee. In 2001-2, the Judicary Committee did that like 9-10 times. Suddenly, it doesn't matter what Casey's stance is on choice SINCE HE WILL NEVER HAVE THE OPTION TO EVEN VOTE.


Casey's stance on choice has been clarified even in the debate with Santorum (why do you think Santorum said "Your dead father would be upset with you". Casey supports EC and Birth Control. He also supports education that is more than this farce of "Abstinence Only". And the one thing that Bob Casey is that Rick Santorum will never ever be is one of these "The Buck Stops at the FEtus" types people. The guy is well-loved by the Unions and Labor and will be a major asset to us on that committee. He has strong environmental values and wants to help get more money for Education. And Bob has even said that he would not eliminate abortion for those who are raped/incest/mother life in danger.

What part of the Green Party/Rick Santorum connection do you not understand. I know the requirements to get on the ballot in PA are a bit crazy but Rick didn't help the Constitution Party or Libertarian Party because those parties could actually hurt him. Rick even said that "THird Parties help Incumbants" well who is the incumbant in PA. He knows that if he can peel of the single-issue voters with choice he could possibly pull out the win. I mean, you think Pennsylvanians want to vote for Rick based on his Senate Record? The fact that he's a long-time citizen of Penn Hills, PA? The fact that the race is within 6 pts AND the Green is getting 4% means that Santorum's $100k investment is working.

[Crowdance]

125. The father channeling was about Plan B--not abortion

The only air between Ricky and Bob on abortion is on reasons to allow it. Casey will allow exemption from the back alley only for the life of the mother. A raped woman or girl, or one whose health will suffer due to pregnancy, will have to make that walk down the alley. You know, the pro-rapist kind of pro-"life" kind of guy who doesn't seem too flustered by women dying. What a great guy! Courage of his convictions and all that.

Ricky, of course, would require the life-threatened to also seek back alley abortion. What the heck, she's as good as dead anyway, right.

Facts are so important when we're selecting candidates who'll have the power of life and death over women, don't ya' think?

[LynneSin]

144. Wow that google search took 3 minutes to disprove what you wrote

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Bob_Casey.htm
http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Bob_Casey_Abortion.htm

Exceptions to save life of mother, rape & incest
Q: What is your position on legal protection for unborn children from the moment of conception if Roe v. Wade is overturned? What exceptions would you require: a) life of the mother b) rape & incest c) fetal deformity?
A: Support a) Life of the mother. If the Supreme Court were to overturn Roe v. Wade, a PA bill would contain exceptions for rape, for incest, and for the life of the mother. I would strongly support that bill because it would have the effect of reducing the number of abortions in PA.

Source: Archdiocese of Philadelphia survey of Treasurer candidates Nov 7, 2004

[Crowdance]

153. I know it's hard to read this poorly written response. but try harder...

Casey says he'd support "Life of the mother." He then goes on to say that a PA bill limiting abortion,which he WOULD NOT BE WRITING because he'd be the TREASURER would get his strong support. His own support, however, goes to LIFE OF THE MOTHER.

Of course, all of this kind of conversation would simply go away if Casey would step forward and say what he really means here.

[LynneSin]

157. exceptions for rape, for incest, and for the life of the mother.

I would strongly support that bill

Not sure what you're confused about, commas are regularly used when discussing multiple issues.

Example I wouldn't say Cow Chicken and Pig because it sounds like I'm talking about some freak creature like a Cow Chicken

Instead I would use the common and say Cow, Chicken and Pig so it shows that I am talking about 3 items.

I'm thinking if Casey was not to support abortions for rape and incest he'd say something like NOT rape or incest but for the life of the mother

Casey's not going to admit it because he knows that is what Santorum is hoping for - why help get Santorum re-election

[Crowdance]

160. Lynn, I wish you well.

Really.

[LynneSin]

163. it's Lynne

If we get rid of Santorum life will be looking good.

I'm just tired of these instant gratification democrats who think we can make change all in one election. It will never happen, we can't we're fighting an uphill battle.

But when we have small but very important victories like the Ned Lamont one up in connecticut it's a start. We got rid of one bad democrat (I just hope it's permament :cry: ). But the thing with Lamont was he was able to get around the system because of his vast fortune which required no support from any established democratic organization.

We need to start building from the ground up and getting democrats elected in races where even a small group of people can make a major impact. Look at last years Dover PA School Board race. That was a major victory for democrats because a small group people banded together and made the difference they wanted to see on the school board and ousted the Intelligent Design nut jobs. And perhaps from that victory we'll see one of those members emerge as a future candidate, perhaps for mayor or state government of some form. Dover folks know him already and the repuation is established.

Bernie Sanders did not become senator overnight. He started as a mayor and built his career up from there. He's an independant getting elected without any major party money and he did it because Vermont people knew who Bernie Sanders is.

Personally, I want Casey in DC because he's more dangerous as Governor when it comes to choice, but I don't think there is anyway of stopping that. But our government needs major change and it will never happen if we try to do it all at once. But building the party will one day give us the party we really want and perhaps there are a few more Ned Lamonts out there that can help the cause

Good luck to you too!

[Crowdance]

168. with an "e"

I'll remember that.

[LynneSin]

170. :D

:pals:

[ComerPerro]

85. i know you are, but what am I?

[LynneSin]

53. So you're entrusting the Republican ones instead

Guess you trust them for the war, the economy, your job, your healthcare, your education, your chilrden's education, oh the list can go on

And don't even attempt to say voting for Green is a better option. Carl Romanelli wouldn't be on the ballot if Rick Santorum & his cronies didn't provide him the $100k needed to get on the ballot. Green party in PA is another way of endorsing republicans.

Look, I've lived in PA and I've had to make difficult choices at the booth. I am forever pro-choice having volunteered for local planned parenthood and donating money to their cause. I try to go to the Emily's List functions each year if I can. I would still support Casey in a heart beat because I am not the most important person voting in this election. My vote for Carper (which is who I have now - asshole is supporting Lieberman) is not for Carper - but is for Harry Reid to be the democratic majority, for Patrick Leahy and the Judiciary Commitee being the ones who stop activist judges from getting floor votes (and in 2001-2 they did a damn good job, 10 of them never go to the floor). I want Edward Kennedy running the Education Committee and working to get rid of this pathetic "Leave all Children Behind" rule. I want a debate on the floor about finding and end to Iraq, perhaps we won't get the win but you know Kerry and Feingold will keep fighting. And I want 84% of the bills vote on the senate floor to be from Democrats NOT republicans (that's Frist's record)

This ISN'T about you or me or Bob Casey's stance on choice. But trust me, Rick Santorum is hoping that's what will happen. This is about democratic majority and control of those committees. Because the most important votes are not the ones that happen on the Senate Floor - it's the ones in committee, the ones that never see the light of day because a democrat introduced it but republican majority killed it.

And on the bright side - Casey isn't going to be senator forever. He wants governor and I wouldn't be suprised if he runs in 2010. But since Casey is running out of statewide offices to run for and Rendell will have the governor seat locked up til 2010, the democrats probably asked Casey to take a run against Santorum because Casey really is one of the most popular people in Pennsylvania.

[ComerPerro]

57. yeah, you know, cause, If I can't get what I want

then fuck everybody else.

That seems to be the single-issue voter mentality.

[Hippo_Tron]

141. If we get the majority back it will be a huge boost for women's rights

Judges will have to pass through Leahy, Kennedy, Kerry, Feingold, Durbin, and other solid socially liberal Democrats before going to the floor.

[ronnykmarshall]

84. DU FOR RICKY!!

:woohoo:

[LynneSin]

146. Got alot of those here, and btw, I'M A CENTRIST!!!

I'm waiting for the DLC label to be dragged out next

:rofl:

[ronnykmarshall]

147. GASP!!

LYNNE!! I never KNEW!!

Oh, I feel so DIRTY now!

:rofl:

[LynneSin]

152. I would have been more insulted if I was called a Dallas Cowboy fan

:shrug:

Well, that's the game plan here anyways - if you don't like how I think slap Centrist on me as a label

what are you doing in this thread, it's crazy!

[ronnykmarshall]

180. I've been getting into these threads these days ...

it's kinda like a car wreck on the freeway .... you just can't help yourself!

[LynneSin]

194. I know, I can't help it

Sometimes though it's like shooting fish in a barrel and I really truly think that most folks understand the BIG PICTURE and what's at stake in 2006.

Personally, I don't want Junior to get into the PA statehouse. I think he's more dangerous there for choice than in the US Senate

[dsc]

196. He promised not to run for governor in 2010

He promised to serve 6 years. I agree he wants the governor's seat though.

[Warpy]

12. Tha's what I've been saying for a year, and I've been flamed

as a "one issue voter," something that is totally unfair.

Cross that choice line with me, and you've lost my vote, though. I will vote Green, I'll write in my cat, but I will not vote for any candidate who wants to push women back into reproductive slavery and the horror of illegal abortion.

Men always underestimate what that means to us.

However, between two prochoice candidates, I decide on other issues.

[LynneSin]

25. So you'll support Santorum then

Great :D

Because any vote you make not for Casey is an endorsement of Rick Santorum. Hell he bought and paid for the Green Candidate on the ticket. So really, even voting Green is endorsement of Rick Santorum.

I can't imagine why, for the life of GOD, you would sacrifice the future of our children and grandchildren with a man hellbent on destroy choice, middle class values and continuing war in Iraq, but that's what you're doing.

Please - just add "Another DUer for Rick Santorum" to your sig-line because that's what you are

[ComerPerro]

28. get this: You ARE a single-issue voter

you said so yourself.

And you think its unfair that people call you one?

grow up

[Warpy]

45. HALF THE POPULATION is huge

The DLC led Democrats have been shut out of all 3 branches by selling out their working class base.

What do you think will happen when they throw HALF THEIR MEMBERS to the wolves?

THINK.

[ComerPerro]

46. Republicans will have total dominance and you'll be happy

because, those people taking away ALL of your rights, including the only right you cared about? At least they aren't pro-life (or even moderate on that issue) Democrats, right?

[Warpy]

52. False choice and UNFAIR

THINK.

Men find it all too easy to sell women out.

I'm not predicting what I want to happen. I'm predicting what WILL happen.

Casey is already in trouble.

[Horse with no Name]

58. Lots of false choices in this thread

I am tired of women's rights being the ones that have become acceptable for sacrificing for the greater good.
From "supposed" progressives.:wtf:
If you don't support Casey then you support Santorum and Republicans?
WTF kind of empty rhetoric is that?
Talk about strawmen.

[cc488is]

59. A vote against Casey

is a vote for Santorum.

[Warpy]

67. Casey is in trouble

as predicted.

Deal with it and learn. Or don't deal with it and stay out of power.

[LynneSin]

72. Casey is in trouble thanks to idiots here at DU

who harp on single issues.

That's what Rick wants you to do. Thanks for keeping instep with the Santorum plan.

I'll blame the single-issue choice voters for destroying choice when Rick is re-elected because you're all a bunch of selfish pricks who think they're so high&mighting voting their single issue that they would rather keep republican rule than to make a different NOT with one senator but with a majority. All of them - dumbasses controlled by Rick Santorum

[Horse with no Name]

77. Don't flatter yourself.

Nobody gives a fuck what you think or what I think either. This is a message board. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Lars39]

95. Those are some mighty strong words...

is there a direct quote from Casey stating that he will uphold a woman's right to choice?

[LynneSin]

113. Is there one from Rick?

I'm not going to kid you, the guy is anti-choice. But he has come out for EC, Birth control, education and increase in family funding (not for abortion) and keeping abortion for those rape/incest/mother's life in choice.

But seriously, if we even want to CONSIDER getting the democratic majority we need this seat in Pennsylvania. Anti-choice democrats do not get on the Judiciary Committee. Kerry was the man bumped when we went down a seat and will probably get that seat back if we have majority.

Stop thinking one-issue and please please please stop thinking of what happens on the Senate floor. We need those committees - that is the real power and without them we're screwed. You can't subpeona a witness in committee without a majority, you can stop radical judicial nominations without a majority and you're stuck voting on 85% of the republican written legislation on the floor votes if you don't have a majority.

And please, don't kid yourself by thinking you'll vote Green. Romanelli is a Santorum stooge and it's been extremely well-documented in the press that his presense on the ballot is only because of Santorum donations

[Lars39]

121. I consider anti-choice Dems to be trojan horses.

Damn shame there isn't a pro-choice Dem running.

[LynneSin]

167. So John Murtha is a trojan horse - Thank goodness you outed him

Damn, he's getting elected just to infilitrate the party and stop the Iraq war!!

BTW - you want to meet a hardcore anti-choice Pennsylvania Democratic, check out John Murtha's record. His record on choice would make Casey a darling of the pro-choice crowd.

You cannot judge a candidate on the single-issue but the whole of the character. That's probably why Casey doesn't come outright and talk about his stance in choice because he is progressive in many other areas such as Labor, Environment and Education.

But we won't talk about how he'll make a difference in those areas because it's all about the single-issue voter, who I think is the biggest Trojan Horse. Because all these anti-Casey single issue people are being shoved unwillingly into Santorum's trojan horse

[Lars39]

190. So all these anti-choice Dems start getting elected...

what's the incentive for them to represent women?

[LynneSin]

195. My god is that the only issue out there

It's Caseyzilla out to stomp all over DC and destroy choice as we know it.

Or perhaps it's Bob Casey, friend to labor, environment, education and yeah, perhaps a zygote or two. It's not about "ME" and hell, I'm a woman who can still feasibly get knocked up. It's about this country heading in the absolutely wrong direction and enabling a Rick Santorum win, even with suggesting voting 3rd party or just not voting, is helping push our country in that continuedly wrong direction.

And senators can't overturn RoeVWade - Supreme Court does. If we had democratic majority, without a doubt the judicial dems would never let those judges hit the floor. Look up their records from 2001-2, they stopped about 10 powerhouse radicals. If those judges never get to the floor then we don't have to worry about the filibuster. And Patrick Leahy (who would be chair) would never allow an anti-choicer on that committee. Casey's forte is Labor, Education and Environment and he would do more good on those committees


And here's a secret as to why I want Casey in the Senate - he can do far more damage as an Anti-Choice governor than he ever could with years of being a US Senator. Hopefully once he runs for governor (and trust me, the guy will) we'll have an established majority in the Senate and a democrat in the White House to prevent RoeVWade from overturning.

[ComerPerro]

60. One, you set up false choices before I did. And two,

please pull your head out of your ass and look around at the poltical climate before arrogantly telling me to think.

Who, of the two, do you honestly think is going to protect your right to choose more?

And, as another poster mentioned, who do you think is going to actively work to make lives better for children who are actually alive.


But you don't give a shit about that, do you?

You are far too caught up in rehtoric and self-satisfaction.


Enjoy it. Its one that that, if someone is truly delusional, can last forever, no matter how bad things get in the real world.

[LynneSin]

65. You find it too easy to sell out EVERYONE

STOP FALLING PREY TO THE SANTORUM PLAN.

This isn't accident these types of posts, he wants this. He wants people to question Casey's choice issue and he even BOUGHT AND PAID for a Green Candidate to help his cause.

People can be such dumbasses.

There are only 2 choices for PA: Santorum or Casey
And if you're voting for Green - that's Santorum too, trust me, that's why he paid for the Green Candidate

[Hippo_Tron]

143. Does the idea of President Santorum scare you at least a little bit?

Because it scares the shit out of me. For the sake of argument lets say that all things are equal between the two (although in my opinion they are not). At the very least, Bob Casey won't ever get within 10 miles of a presidential nomination. Rick Santorum, on the other hand may just have a shot at it if he pulls out re-election in a critical blue state. And before you say it can't happen, weren't we all saying the same thing about the dipshit that we have in the white house right now? We need to defeat Rick Santorum now and we need to defeat George Allen now so that we don't have to deal with them in '08.

[Straight Shooter]

15. A pro-life Senator is not even an issue at this point, really.

The issue is getting a majority, because Congress has some serious work to do. I would love nothing better than to stop hearing about the "danger" of gay marriages and flag burning.

We need a majority. Preventing one Dem from being a Senator will hurt our chances. Also, Rick Santorum is so vile, he's symbolic of everything wrong with the GOP, and we need someone who is steady and mentally balanced to represent the Democratic party. A lot of Democrats are pro-life; we can't ignore them or dismiss their beliefs.

I also hope that Casey can be pro-life without being a radical misogynist. What is Casey's position on available contraception and sex education? What is his attitude towards the responsibility of men in a relationship if the woman becomes pregnant and wants to keep the child? What is his attitude towards helping the woman with prenatal care, and assisting the child to be nourished and educated?

Pro-life can be a positive thing, if handled ethically and not just relegated to pro-fetus and to hell with the baby when it takes its first breath and thereafter.

As for me, a woman's choice is a woman's choice.

[LynneSin]

27. Harry Reid and John Murtha are pro-life

And yet they are both able to maintain their belief against choice and still be effective in DC.

[still_one]

19. really, he is for embronic stem cell research

and is for the morning after pill

santorum is against both of those issues

There is so much difference between him an Santorum, and by focusing on ONE ISSUE, shows how ignorant you are about the where santorum and casey stand on the issues

[LynneSin]

43. STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT - You make too much common sense

Some of these single-voter issues folks will have their heads explode with logic like that.

You just need to consider our Judiciary Committee which is 100% pro-choice. No 'Gang of 14' democrat will ever see a seat on that committee. If we gain control of the senate and get to add one more democrat, more than likely Chairman Patrick Leahy will bring back the person he had to drop - John Kerry.

Casey's strongest areas (and most progressive) are Labor and Environment. He'll end up on those committees

[LynneSin]

7. ABSOLUTELY WRONG PLEASE RESEARCH FIRST

Bob Casey is against abortions but is ok with abortions for the trifecta - Rape, Incest and life-threatening to mother

Bob Casey supports the availablility of EC and birth control, which anyone who knows anything about Catholicism knows aren't hardline Catholic values

Bob Casey also supports increased funding for family planning and better Sex Education class that promote Abstience but also teaches common sense about the use of birth control.

Which Senator is the greater risk for ending RoeVWade - easily Rick Santorum

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/26/223636/897

Geez, that google took me less than 2 minutes

Yes, Casey is anti-choice, but perhaps he's more pro-life because once the fetus becomes human, Casey will do much much more to improve the life for that child than Rick Santorum ever will

[Straight Shooter]

22. Thanks, LynneSin.

You were able to answer my questions while I was still writing my post.

I'd vote for Casey in a heartbeat, even if I disagree with this fundamental issue. I don't want to be a one-issue voter. I want that damn majority in Congress and then let the Democrats show the country what it's really like to have the adults in charge.

[ComerPerro]

30. fantastic point

[bleedingheart]

47. what is really sad...is that he didn't come out with his position and

publicly state where he stands on all these issues....

He leaves himself open for Santorum to define due to this. The Lyn Cullen program was dicussing this very issue...he needs to just state all of his opinions on all issues...and make it public.

If you go to his web site...he has some gaps on some important issues.

[LynneSin]

4. But he'll do more to protect RoeVWade and choice than Santorum will

He has said that the current laws are satisfactory and agrees with the available of EC and Birth Control.

He would also add more funding towards family planning and create an education system that isn't relying on "Abstinence Only"

Finally, Casey would actually work to make the world a better place once the fetus is born.

Just so you know - Harry Reid is pro-life and he has been a part of every judicial filibuster. John Murtha (a 'Casey Democrat' - western PA dems who happen to be pro-life like Bob's dad) is also pro-life.

We have GOT to stop being single-issue voters. That's what Santorum wants because it'll draw votes away from Bob Casey.

If you're from PA and a strong believer in Choice you have got to ask yourself if you could survive with another 6 years as Santorum as your senator. If you can, with the good conscious of your heart, say "YES", then go ahead and vote for someone other than Casey

[Horse with no Name]

8. "single issue voter"

Thanks.:eyes:
But I would rather my children and granddchildren not live in a Handmaids Tale world or a world of backstreet abortions.
Choice is my barometer. If a candidate doesn't support choice, then I don't support them.

[LynneSin]

14. So you're saying that Santorum WILL protect your kids right to choose?

I mean, that's the logic I'm getting.

Consider this - if we get the majority (and I know it's a risk), do you understand what could feasibly happen with RoeVWade?

No more filibusters
No more Gang of 14
No more worrying if anti-choice democrats will stab us in the back

If Dems get the majority then they'll control the Judiciary committee and no one gets on that committee that isn't pro-choice (and not a part of that dumbass gang).

Don't vote for Casey because of his issue - this election is more than that. This is trying to get the control away from the republicans and yes, there are some democrats who we might not find as perfect but ultimately they'll help with the greatest good which is getting that majority. Casey will be stuck on committees that suit what he has done well for years which is Labor and Environment (clearly pro-choice)

If you think what you're doing is somehow protecting your future generations then you are ABSOLUTELY DEAD WRONG and you can tell those future offsprings of how you helped keep Rick Santorum if office who is 110% worse when it comes to choice that Bob Casey ever was.

You're the one ruining their future - not me and definately not Bob Casey Jr.

[Horse with no Name]

17. That is your rhetoric.Wrong and misguided. But why ruin a good soapbox?

I am saying that NEITHER will support it given the right set of circumstances.

[LynneSin]

55. Hate to disappoint you, that's what's gonna happen

in fact Rick Santorum is praying that will happen and even bought and paid for a Green Candidate just to help his re-election case.

You're a Santorum supporter through and through because you are STUPID enough to buy-in to the single-voter issue which Santorum is clearly trying to do by paying for a Green Candidate to run.

Just google Rick Santorum Green and you'll find the whole sordid history of how Rick Santorum is twisting your mind and others like you that you have to vote this one single issue or else

[ComerPerro]

33. Keep refusing to vote for Dems, and you will have that future anyway

[warrens]

10. Abortion is a matter of conscience

I can understand someone opposing it. I don't think anyone is in FAVOR of it. I disagree with him on this and other issues, but he isn't going to ram them down your throat like Rickyboy wants to do.

Not every Dem is going to agree with you on everything. Get used to it.

[cc488is]

18. Hard to disagree with you there

Well said!

[LynneSin]

20. EXACTLY

When you think single-issue/1 senator, you're absolutely missing the point.

It's more than just that, Bob Casey is one of the links we need to complete the circle for Democratic Majority. And outside the area of chose, Bob is pretty progressive on many issues with tops being Labor and Environment.

I'm stuck with Tom "I'm supporting Lieberman" Carper as the democratic nominee for senator here in Delaware. Am I excited about voting for him - HELL NO!!! But I won't vote 3rd party because my only other alternative this late in the process is a republican (it was too late to force a primary against the bastard).

[Horse with no Name]

23. So you are saying that if Casey supported suppressing the black vote

You would still vote for him?
It *IS* a single issue after all, and not every Dem is going to agree with you on everything, after all.
Woman's rights are important to me.
However, people that are quick to dismiss women's rights as "single issue" would certainly jump up to object if that particular single issue was something THEY cared about.

[cc488is]

26. Nice strawman.

Casey is a FAR better choice.

[Horse with no Name]

32. Hardly a strawman. What is important to me isn't important to someone

else--so they say I am a "single issue" voter.
Anyone that doesn't support women's rights is useless in my book.
You might as well say they don't support civil rights.
I want the politician's out of my fucking bedroom.

[cc488is]

40. He's not in your bedroom and

he's not telling you what you can and can't do. Morally he's opposed to abortion. That doesn't mean he'll work to repeal the law of the land like his opponent will.

[Lars39]

101. Has he publicly stated that he will stand for women's right to choose?

[cc488is]

123. Right to choose

what? An abortion? I think he's on record as stating while he is personally anti-abortion, he will do nothing that will negatively affect a woman's decision to have an abortion.

[Crowdance]

127. Wrong. He's on record saying it should be overturned.

Democratic Senate candidate Robert P. Casey Jr., who opposes abortion, believes Roe v. Wade should be overturned. "You can't say you have the position I have and not believe that," Casey said in a recent interview.
Source: Philadelphia Inquirer, "Casey's Clear View on Abortion" Dec 18, 2005

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crowdance]

134. Means he'd overturn it AND it should be left to

states. It's possible to support both horrendous positions at once,and, yes, he did that.

edited: post-combining should be strictly regulated...

[LynneSin]

61. What's important to me is protecting choice, which Santorum won't do

So don't mind us if we're a bit upset with folks like you coming in and following the Santorum Plan to a key

1.) Announce we need 3rd parties on the PA Senate Race (plant the idea for his cronies to cough up some cash)
2.) Find a sleezeball 'green' candidate who has no sense of morale values who is all to willing to accept the Santorum Money
3.) Hire FSM Inc to gather signatures for Green, a company convicted in Ohio of voter fraud with the thousands of illegal signatures
4.) Ignore Constitution and Libertarian parties - those candidates will hurt Santorum
5.) Let 'Green' Party repuke stool push the single issue voters that 'All you poor babies, you need a candidate to appease your single-issue life stance'
6.) Rinse, Repeat and Siphon away the votes

YOU ARE A PRODUCT OF THE RICK SANTORUM SLIME MACHINE. To not see what his is doing makes you the scarist voter out there who will recklessly support Santorum even if indirectly voting for a Green candidate that has received most of his money FROM RICK SANTORUM.

That's no strawman - that's the facts. Google it if you want

[LynneSin]

29. Why would Casey suppress people who actually support him

That's a dumb argument.

Why not ask "If Casey sacrificed your pet on an altar to Satan would you still vote for him"

:crazy:

BTW, Santorum will - he had his goons at the polls in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia in predominantly African-American voters harrassing the voters as they stood in line and challenging them in hopes they'd be disqualified as voters.

Yep, in fact Michael Moore tracked complaints for voter harassment back in 2004 and the county with the most complaints: Allegheny. For those who don't know what Allegheny is - that's Pittsburgh

[ComerPerro]

36. are you saying that a pro-choice candidate who wanted to

supress the black vote would actually get your vote over a pro-life candidiate?

That's pretty fucking sick...

[tabasco]

37. Rick Santorum sends his love!

THANKS!

[Horse with no Name]

48. Nice.

[LynneSin]

54. Better stock up on those coat hangers - that's what you're getting

with Rick Santorum.

[Stand and Fight]

94. That's a bullshit argument... And you know it. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

162. No it really isn't

It is substituting one group for another.
Sometimes SINGLE ISSUES do matter--when supporting that issue preserves civil rights-- whether they are for black people or women or gays or any other subset of people that others seek to disenfranchise.

[skipos]

21. ALRIGHT! Another circular firing squad!!!

:woohoo:

Santorum or Casey is going to be in that senate seat. Take your pick.

[ComerPerro]

38. gotta love them Greens. They want what they want, when they want it

and if they can't have it, they are gonna take their ball and go home.

And they seem to ignore the fact that they only reason they have a game at all is because it was bought by Republicans.

[Midlodemocrat]

31. I understand completely your distaste for candidate who isn't pro-

choice, but at this point in time, I think we need to see the vote for Casey as more of a vote against Santorum if that makes any sense.

Santorum has been viewed, along with George Felix Allen, Jr., as the next Republican Golden Boy. We need to send a message in November that we are done with these pricks and we want change.

And, frankly, I believe Casey will do more to enhance the lives of children than Santorum ever would. He's the same ilk of pro-lifers that are actually pro-fetus.

[bleedingheart]

41. You just found this out? He is also anti-Stem Cell...

and from what I heard...he follows the DLC line on the War.

His web site has no real information to keep people confused.

[Horse with no Name]

49. I have blindly supported him

basically because he wasn't Santorum.
I don't live in Pennsylvania and I have been concentrating on my local races.
However, was REALLY surprised he didn't support choice. I can't support a candidate that doesn't support women.

[bleedingheart]

102. Casey is actually a personable person and he is the better choice

because he does care about people after they are born...which is the key factor differentiating him from "a little bit of suffering does people some good" Santorum.

However, the local Democratic leadership here in PA ran him because

1. His name is famous
2. He is anti-choice and they thought it would help them lure GOPers...but that isn't working.

Personally I think what is bad is that people are just finding out where he stands on issues and a lot of pro-choice folks who didn't know him before are now a bit miffed. I know of many NOW members who won't vote for either candidate.

[skipos]

51. Could you do me a favor?

Google "Casey" and "stem cell" and tell me what you find.

[LynneSin]

62. Can you do me a favor

Google:

Santorum and War
Santorum and Choice
Santorum and Separation of CHurch and State
Santorum and Labor
Santorum and Environment
Santorum and Health Care
Santorum and Social Security

Geez, do I need to add some more

It's so fricking amazing how many DUers are dumb enough to buy into Santorum's plan. Trust me, you have!

[bleedingheart]

90. the problem is that Casey needs to be upfront about these issues

I am getting tired of people asking me obvious questions.

Look at www.bobcasey.com

No one should have to google around to look for how he stands on the War, Abortion or any other issue.

He sets himself up and it pisses me off.

I am still voting for him and in fact I will be walking my entire district for him, BUT all these issues must be addressed and in his literature...just like how you listed them...so that he can at least highlight how he differs from Santorum.

[LynneSin]

115. I'm thinking Casey is letting Rick shoot himself in the foot

He's not much for dirty campaigning but with his support with the Unions and his name popularity he should do well in this race.

Perhaps he doesn't mention choice because he doesn't want it to be the central issue. There is more going on in this world that choice (although I know it's an important issue but so are many many others).

I watched some of the first debate and basically saw Rick putting his foot in his mouth and Casey letting him do it (with getting some key points in right before breaks - that was nice). The fact that Santorum had to drag out Casey's dead father (an extremely popular governor in PA) will hurt Santorum.

[bleedingheart]

92. I did...

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/062106/stemcell.html

and just like I said...he ain't for it...

"Although the stem-cell issue generally favors Democrats, Santorum’s opponent, Pennsylvania Treasurer Bob Casey Jr., is immune to any political rewards in this area because he, too, rejects research into embryonic stem cells. Unlike Santorum, Casey has not actively engaged in the debate.
"

[Beelzebud]

64. Wouldn't it be cool to have a real opposition party?

That would be great.

Maybe we can try to get that done, someday.

[Horse with no Name]

70. I totally agree.

Women's rights shouldn't be used like baseball trading cards.
I'll trade your choice to get stem cell.
I can't believe all of the people who are willing to do that.

[LynneSin]

89. You know, I went to a book signing for "Crashing the Gate"

Great book btw!

The guys that own DailyKos and MyDD were there to speak about the future of the democratic party. They talked about the same thing with making the democratic party filled with the type of democrats that we could support.

I was a little concerned because I was in Philly and we knew that Casey would be the nominee and that the crowd might get a bit restless. But then an important point was brought up - we have to work with what we have now and build for what we want in the future.

I highly doubt Casey will be a permament fixtured in DC. He wants Governor but can't have it until 2010 and he's out of statewide offices he could run for until that happens. I can almost guarentee that they cut Casey a deal to ask him to run against Santorum in hopes to get rid of him and more than likely they'll all back him for governor in 2010

[WinkyDink]

81. No, Same as his old man. But neither is Santorum, so I'm voting Casey.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

93. Oh, but the DLC'rs will happily tell you that he's "not as bad".

After all, a woman's right to control her own body isn't REALLY important, is it?

[Horse with no Name]

97. According to this thread

it isn't.
That scares me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

107. Well, women's freedom is just a "single" issue and should be ignored.

After all, Casey does have a (D) behind his name which absolves him from all shortcomings. And, after the election, if he wins, which is all important, then we can "move the party" to the left. Why, just look how far the party has "moved to the left" over the last 20 years.

And, btw, there's this real nice bridge in Brooklyn...

[bleedingheart]

117. well I kept telling people this during the Primary and yet a lot of

folks didn't vote in it or voted for him...

Then the same folks now call me and say..."hey...I am trying to get this pro-choice republican friend of mine to vote for Bob...tell me where he stands on this issue.." and I tell them...and there is silence on the other line...and get this...they yell at me...and say stuff like ..."how the hell did that happen"..."your joking right?" ...it is tiresome and it pisses me off.

We had a choice in the primary...people chose their candidate.....so now they better damn well vote for him (Casey) in November.

[Stand and Fight]

103. Hmmm... I think you're distorting what people are saying.

People are not necessarily saying that he "is not that bad," but I think the majority would agree that he is not as bad as the current junior senator from Pennsylvania, Richard Santorum.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

111. Segregation wasn't "as bad" as slavery.

Which the "moderate" Democrats used as a simliar argument in the '50s and '60s.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stand and Fight]

176. Nice strawman... n/t

[Stand and Fight]

98. Research, research, research...

You could have pulled up Casey's stance on this issue MONTHS ago since it is so important to you. However, I would sincerely hope that if you were given the choice by actually living in Pennsylvania that you would make the right decisions. After all, Casey, while he is not necessarily aligned with your position on abortion, will help to make a Democratic majority, and thus a MAJORITY who are in line with your position. However, if you were to choose to not to vote for him and Republicans maintain or INCREASE their majority, guess what? Then you would have a MAJORITY who are anti-choice. I guess that you would have to decide what is more important. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I hope that reason would rule your head instead of blind belief in only one issue.

[deadparrot]

100. Nope, but even if he's a DINO in that respect,

he's a DINO. That means we're one Democrat closer to taking over Senate committees and instigating investigations into the crap that's been going on. Santorum's anti-choice, so we're not losing anything we had in the first place. At least this brings us closer to making ranking committee members committee chairs.

[Stand and Fight]

104. Precisely...

And whom do people think is likely to vote with the Democrats on ALL the big issues -- little Ricky Santorum or our boy, Bobby Casey? My money is on Casey. ;)

[KingFlorez]

105. No, he isn't

But he's better than Santorum

[Egnever]

109. After seeing him on meet the press

I certainly wasnt impressed. In fact more horrified truth be told that yet again we are given a horrible choice. Re elect the devil or elect his idiot brother instead. I thought santorum wiped the floor with him on MTP and thats just sad. The guy doesnt apear to be anything more than a parot and I am soooo sick of parrots.

However having said that yet again I would have to take this shill over santorum if only to get us closer to the majority.

I gotta say though if that MTP "debate" was any indication of his skills. I think santorums seat is safe..... How pathetic is that?

[LynneSin]

119. Casey isn't the most personable person

But his name is solid gold in Pennsylvania. It's a weird state - only in PA are democrats anti-choice and oddly enough republicans have been pro-choice (Former governor Tom Ridge was very pro-choice).

Perhaps the strategy is to let Santorum make a fool of himself. Bush is not popular in PA and yet Santorum praised his love for the idiot. And that comment about "YOur dead father would be ashamed of you" was pretty low (and trust me, BOb Casey Sr is very well-loved in the state).

I'm just tired of these single-issue voters doing their best to denounce Casey and push for the Green Party. The fact that there is a Green Party candidate was not because of an overwhelmingly desire for a pro-choice candidate on the ballot but instead it was $100k from Santorum supporters and a bunch of fake signatures. Democrats are challenging the signatures and the judge is allowing supporters from the Democrats and Green party to be a part of the challenge. Guess who the green party sent - Republican volunteers. He couldn't even find actually Green Party members to go in there and do that job

[Egnever]

128. He didn't appear to be

Sadly I thought santorum walked away from that interview looking like the guy with conviction.

I hope you are right and that name recognition carries casey to a win. I only hope he doesn't do too much damage while he holds the seat if he gets it. Of course he cant be any worse than santorum but boy am I sick of lesser of two evil votes.

I can understand your frustration with single issue voters. I am definitely willing to turn the other cheek on issues I care about in order to oust the current creeps in office. I just wish it wasn't necessary. Its races like this that make me wish for strong third parties. Not pretend third parties intended to dilute the vote but actual third party choices that helped avert the lesser of two evils choice we are so often faced with.

[Horse with no Name]

112. I am not for Santorum

and even though many want to paint as either/or...it isn't that simple.
As I stated above, I don't live in Pennsylvania so obviously I can't vote one way or the other, so the strawman that my OPINION is a vote for Santorum is just plain ignorant.
However, as we come into the stretch for the elections, the only support that I can offer to candidates outside of Texas will be monetary.
When I start making those contributions, I will NOT financially support a candidate that does not value choice as I do.
According to this thread, there are MANY that will pick up that slack obviously, so in the realm of things, my opinion is simply that.

[LynneSin]

118. Then if you're not from PA, mind your business if you want to hurt dems

I'm not from PA either (although I spent a lifetime in that state including 8 years with Santorum) and I'm here to fight for the democrats. Casey's stance is well known but many of us support him, including myself (donor to NARAL, Planned Parenthood and Emily's LIst), because we want the majority and we want Santorum gone.

Policy of DU is to support the candidate after the primary is done so how your negativity against the man who overwhelmingly won the primary in Pennsyvania just baffles me.

Casey will never affect choice in DC because he will be in future positions where he could decide the outcome. And bookmark this link because I almost guarantee that in 2010 Casey is going to run for Governor fully backed by the PA Dems.

I came here to DU to help elect democrats and better our party. I know that our party sucks in many ways but it's not going to help us if we just don't vote with narrow minded attitudes of "It's my way or no way" voting. We had a MAJOR victory with Ned Lamont winning the primary and it was odd that after that victory suddenly some of the more hawkish dems in the senate start mentioning that perhaps setting goals & deadlines in Iraq is good (I know Hillary did). To change the democratic party is going to require us to tear down the wall and if we think we can do that in one shot we're fooling ourselves. We're pulling it down brick by brick and one day that wall will be weak and we'll see the change that we wanted. But we are going to set ourselves back 50 years if we don't get that democratic majority now. And hell if we do get it, I know I'll be the first person here in DU bitching about their screw-ups. But even a democratic majority that only gets it right 25% of the time is still 100% better than a republican party that never gets it right.

So call me a strawman, call me foolish, call me whatever. But if you're here to lure voters away from supporting Bob Casey - then just please stop it. We know he's anti-choice but we know he has some great progressive values too. Pennsylvania made their choice and I for one support him 110%

[Horse with no Name]

120. So you are more "pure" than I am?

:puke:

[LynneSin]

133. Next you'll accuse Casey of supressing the Black vote

Wait, you did that one already.

No, I'm here to help get democrats elected, I mean last time I checked this was the democratic underground. Pennsylvanians had a primary and had choice and Casey won. He is the candidate. So coming in here with your destructive attitude that somehow you're better than everyone else because you support choice really isn't that producive in electing democrats.

Here's a little known fact - I don't trust Russ Feingold and I've made that point many many times. He failed us with Ashcroft and failed us with Roberts and I personally think he's a snake in the grass who might ignore you or might bite you when you least expect it.

So, should I start spewing anti-Feingold mentality because I'm not a fan of his? Tell Wisconsiners "YOU HAVE BETTER CHOICES THAN FEINGOLD". No, because Feingold represents Wisconsin and even if I can't stand the guy he is a pretty good senator.

Single-issue voters come across as having little knowledge of what really goes on in DC. The republicans are the master of utilizing the single-issue whether it's guns, gays or god; or in this case choice. We have got to STOP playing the republican game. Get the majority now and work to get more folks like Lamont elected.

Live in your fantasy world with Bad Old Bob CASeyZiLLA trouncing DC and destroying every last trance of choice on the law books. Those of us who know Pennsylvania politics, DC politics and even Bob Casey Jr's history know that he will have little decision making when it comes to choice should he win in DC

[Horse with no Name]

142. Disgusting.

You really are.
You are just another centrist trying to shove your agenda down our throats and stomping up and down when we don't take it.
Other people's opinions matter whether you like them or not.
It is NOT your message board and I have every right to state an opinion just like you do.
Not once in this unpleasant discourse with you have I asked you to keep your opinion to yourself.
How very Republican of you.:eyes:
But I guarantee you one thing...I am AS knowledgeable as you are and I find your opinions dangerous to our country. You can't even comprehend what I have said and continue to (purposely) detract from what I have said.
I have no use for you. I have no use for your opinions. You are a DLC operative at best, mole at worst, that is seeking to destroy my party from within and take away the values that should be inherent.
Now, go ahead and spew the venom that you do so effortlessly.
I am ignoring you because you have proven yourself to be exactly what I thought you were.

[LynneSin]

145. Who says I'm a centrist - wanna slap a DLC label on me next

I'm a realist and I know that without a majority we're FUCKED

You're nothing more than a Santorum enabler. Where are your ideas of regaining the majority, I see no rational solution

So slap any label on me, I know enough folks here who are EXTREMELY familiar with my support on choice with both my time and money.

And believe me, I'd rather be a centrist then a dumbass single-issue voter who somehow believes that they are better than everyone else because of some mystical 'conscious voting'

I solve problems, not create them

You don't like me - click this guy here:


Centrist - what a laugh. Is that the best you can do

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You've got a long way to go offending me with a joke like that

[Warren DeMontague]

124. I'm glad I don't live in PA.

I have to vote for Dianne Feinstein, but at least she's pro-choice.

[LynneSin]

135. I have to vote for Tom "I'm supporting Lieberman" Carper

Too late for a primary candidate this late in the game

:grr:

That's why I'm working in PA to help make change there. I'm a lifetime Pennsylvania and I've pretty much got most of my family in Pennsylvania voting for Bob Casey. Best I can do

[Hippo_Tron]

149. I'm stuck with Harold Ford

And unlike the race you have in Deleware, ours is a close one. Ford pisses me off but when you look down the ballot at Bob Corker, well... you get the idea.

[LynneSin]

197. Man my heart goes out for you

When I heard it was Harold Ford it just sent shivers down my spine. That guy could be a potential Joe Lieberman Jr.

But he will still side with the democrats and help towards the Majority.

And I'm praying that we get a democrat in office in 2008 so all of this is just a moot point.

But here's irony. I see tons of anti-Casey threads. How's come folks are bitching about Ford? (let's hope that doesn't happen)

[w4rma]

132. He is anti-choice but pro-life: opposes death penalty and abortion.

Good on economic issues from what I understand.

[WI_DEM]

139. so what is the alternative? vote for the Green candidate who is bought

and paid for by the PA Republican party?

[LynneSin]

148. I guess so

:shrug:

BTW, I did post about the fact that I don't trust Russ Feingold so I'm gonna start a thread insisting that DUers not vote for Feingold, m'kay

:sarcasm:

but it is true, I haven't trusted FEingold since the Ashcroft and Roberts vote but I would never in a million years encourage people to vote against him.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

150. Romanelli accepts contributions from Democrats too.

Does that mean that he's "bought and owned" by the Democratic Party?

[WI_DEM]

156. Sounds like it was the GOP who practically paid for his ballot

initiative.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

159. So?

He was supposed to turn down contributions from anyone who wasn't a Green. I haven't seen too many Dems running away from contributions from Republicans in the Corporations that actually expect something in return for their bribes...er, contributions.

[WI_DEM]

171. to each his own, but the reason the GOP helped him so much

and with so many thousands of dollars and volunteers is clear they know that he will hurt Casey and help Santorum. Luckily Santorum is so disliked in the state that I don't think it will even be close.

[LynneSin]

161. HAHAHAHAHAHA you're so funny!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Seriously, I voted for Tom Ridge back in 1998, does that mean I'm a republican (he was pro-choice and the democrat was a loser plus this was before 2000 when I swore off republicans altogether).

My next door neighbor is a Cowboys fan and we're friends, I guess that means I'm a cowboy fan too.

Pul-lease, can you come up with a better excuse, I haven't heard anything so lame since Terrell Owens started actually like a baby last year and the Eagles benchedhim.

Pretty much the breakdown for the 'Get Carl Romanelli on the ballot' was about 99% Santorum & friends and a documented $30 from the candidate himself. Perhaps democrats have donated to him now but Santorum did the dirty work

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

169. Does that mean that the Repugs would force him to be "pro-life"?

Even if the Repugs did contribute to his campaign, I rather doubt that he would then vote in favor of Republican anti-choice measures...unlike the candidate of the Dems who openly states his support of such measures.

[LynneSin]

173. HE WON'T WIN, geez can you be that clueless

And ask yourself this. If Santorum was so concerned with 3rd parties getting on the ballot then why didn't he help the Constitution and Libertarian party get on the ballot. They both had candidates they wanted to field

Oh wait, Constituion and Libertarian tend to peal away CONSERVATIVE voters which would hurt Santorum.

Carl Romanelli could promise that every America would be given $1000 and a new car, but the guy will be lucky if he gets 4% of the vote. But that 4% could very well make the diference between 6 more years of Santorum or 6 years of Bob Casey and quite possibly a democratic majority.

Anyhow who thinks the Green Party is going to win that election, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you! Just PM me and I'll give you the address to mail the money

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

177. So, your support for Casey will influence to become Pro-Choice?

Oh, well, women's rights to control their own body is such an insignificant issue that people should just ignore it and vote for the "not as bad" candidate who also supports the occupation of Iraq.

[LynneSin]

181. DON'T YOU GET IT??!! Casey not running for Board of NARAL or something

My god open your eyes, this isn't about choice this is about Rick Santorum getting re-elected and dividing off the votes by hoping democrats will have hissy fits about ONE SINGLE FUCKING ISSUE.

I'm not voting Bob Casey for president of Planned Parenthood or NARAL, I'm just trying to get rid of Rick Santorum. And after the primaries this is what Pennsylvanians voted for - overwhelmingly. And as someone who lived in Pennsylvania for most of life, this isn't a recent revelation about the Casey stance in choice. I mean, we had his dad for two terms as governor.

He is a man with some pretty progressive issues that would be a vast improvement over Santorum in areas such as Labor, Education and Environment. I mean, you do care about those issues, dont'you? Or perhaps you just want everyone unemployed, dumb on a planet headed for self-destruction. I mean that could be the case here. Casey's stance on Iraq is tentative but would work with Democrats to hopefully at least get a damn deadline to get our troops out of there.

I mean, if none of these issues mean anything to you. If you are happy to add to the 2,657 dead in Iraq and probably even more once we invade Iran. If you want your job shipped overseas and your kids to have an IQ of a Kumquat, then please, be my guest and not vote for Casey.

I'm very pro-choice but I look at the big picture. This isn't about me - it's about getting Rick Santorum out of office.

Peronsally I find it offensive how little you care about what's happening in this country. No it's not about us women, it's about every single goddamn living thing that walks this planet!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

186. Women aren't living things that walks this planet?

There are "issues" and there are "issues". I don't give a rip if my senator or congressman votes for naming a bridge after Ronnie Reagan or putting Richard Nixon's mug on a quarter. But, I will not vote for candidates who are against the rights of women to control their own bodies or supports the slaughter of people for political gain.

Just because Casey is likely better than Santorum doesn't cut it when it comes to what matters. Just because he has a (D) after his name doesn't palliate him, or those who vote for him, from supporting what is clearly an anti-woman position.

“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.” - Thomas Jefferson

[Ravenseye]

151. Don't complain, you get what you pay for

Plenty of Chuck Pennachio supporters were here, in the PA forums, in the GD forums...all throughout this site, trying to convince people this would be a problem. That the numbers were only high on him from name recognition but would drop when people found out his stances. Women polled said they'd vote for him, then found out his positions, and backed away.

Yet most of those threads either dropped like a rock, or were full of people saying "Casey has a better shot" or outright bashing Pennachio, who is a true and PROUD liberal.

Nope. The bandwagon had Casey and Pennachio couldn't raise enough cash to change enough people's minds.

Well I'm sorry that there are so many DU'ers now pissing and moaning about it, but most of you couldn't be bothered when we had a chance to put a real liberal in the election, so you can quit your bitching now. All it does is hurt our chances here in PA to get rid of Santorum, and believe me...Casey is FAR better than Santorum.

If you're only coming into the conversation now, and didn't donate money or time to Pennachio, then imho you shouldn't complain. It's way too late for that now.

[Horse with no Name]

158. I'm sorry

I never saw those posts as for a few months my time online was limited. I don't live in PA and was on the ground with candidates here in Texas.
All I ever saw here were posts in support of Casey.
I have more time to be online now, so I was completely unaware.
But you are saying that nobody is allowed an opinion now? What exactly are we becoming?

[Ravenseye]

172. What are we becoming?

We're becoming a group of people who seem to want to fight the fights that were already lost, instead of the ones that are going on now. I live in PA. Casey is my candidate, because Santorum is DANGEROUS to not just my state, but to my country. People are allowed to have an opinion but there's also no crying over spilt milk. Casey is the nominee and whether you, or anyone else, didn't have the time or inclination to support a more liberal candidate when we had the chance, doesnt' matter anymore.

There's no use complaining about what was, there is only fighting for what we can do. Casey may be pro-life, and there are aspects about his stances I don't like, they're still better than Santorum, and this election is going to get closer and closer. We need to unite behind our candidate and get him elected. Not voting for Casey, or voting for the green party candidate, is as good as voting for Santorum. There IS a big difference. Casey is a liberal in pretty much every respect other than this one issue, and even with abortion he's far more liberal than Santorum.

We don't need the infighting now, we need to be strong and support our candidates.

You're allowed an opinion. You can say whatever you want. You can come back here daily if you like and smear Casey. That's your right to have your opinion and to express it. I just think that the time to complain about Casey is now in the past, and that MY opinion is that complaining about him now only hurts us all.

You'd rather Santorum be elected? It doesnt' matter? What if we swing the Senate and Santorum keeps his seat the Republicans maintain a 1 man advantage in the Senate and if Casey had won we'd control the Senate? Think that'd make a difference?

[Horse with no Name]

178. You show me just ONE post where I smeared Casey

I simply pointed out his political position. Is that considered smearing these days? When the truth is a bad thing not to be mentioned except in the dark recesses? Shhh...don't mention his stance because there are still some people out there who aren't aware of it and we want to keep it that way. Downright scary.
This is a message board. People are allowed opinions.
Where anyone "gets" that not liking a candidate's position on an important issue is a vote for Santorum...is really bizarre.
I'm starting to think the zealots for Casey are worse than Casey's stance on abortion. Sheesh.

[Ravenseye]

182. I'd call 'blecch' a smear

your first post. you refer to Casey and go 'blecch'. That's a smear. You didn't just point out his political position and discuss it. You mentioned it and went 'bleecch' and then later said how you wouldn't vote for him, etc.

Yeah that's smearing.

You can mention his stance, but the part that pisses me off is that you're just coming onto this now? when there's nothing that can be done about it? Sorry. Sorry that you just became informed about our race here in PA and decided to throw you 2 cents in, and in such a negative way.

You've said you wouldn't vote for Casey. Now, you dont' live here, but if you encourage someone else to do so that's damageing to not just our state but our country. It's going to be a close election, don't let the polls fool you. Santorum is going to cut that difference. Encouraging someone to not vote for Casey based on one issue, is as good as a vote for Santorum. It's an off year. We need a high turnout. Turning people off like this reduces turnout and that's good for Santorum.

I'm not a zealot for Casey. I was a Pennachio support. I'm a zealot for what we need to do in this country which is to take back control, and doing things that negatively affect one of our senatorial canddiates is hurting our overall cause. If you can't see that, then I feel sorry for you.

[Horse with no Name]

184. Blechh is a smear?

Sad really that is the best you can do.:rofl:

[Ravenseye]

191. You want more?

I thought it telling that your initial post was a smear. How bout...

Post 6 - "Fuck him. If he has a "D" behind his name...it is obviously a mistake. He isn't better than Santorum."
Post 13 - "You get enough of these asses in power, they will be gone."
Post 39 - "There is indeed a lot of harm he can do."

I'd call those smears too. I'm sure you don't see them as such though. If you really care about women's rights you'd want to fight for a democratically controlled Senate and House, even if that means some of us vote here and there for pro-life people.

What if Casey were running against Arlen Specter? Casey the Democratic pro-life candidate versus the Republican pro-choice candidate. Who would you vote for? Who do you think would do more for women's rights?

[LynneSin]

183. You you have got to be kidding me

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Look, here's a simple favor - support Casey or just stay out of the threads. Pennsylvania has always known that Bob Casey was anti-choice. I mean, I lived under his dad's governship for 8 years, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

My belief is that the candidate represents the state. And if you're not Pennsylvanian (which even I'm not, I moved to Delaware recently) then perhaps let Pennsylvanians decide. If you're here to help then jump on board. But if you're so against Casey, then perhaps there are other races where you can show the same kind of amazing passion that you have showed us here and HELP GET A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY

I'm just trying to get rid of this crap of hashing again and again and again the extremely obvious fact that yes, Casey is anti-choice/pro-life. Pennsylvanians knew it and they supported Casey anyways. Perhaps they liked his support for Labor and Unions. Perhaps they thought he had better ideas for Education. Maybe they just say "An Inconvient Truth" and wanted to so something about the Environment. Maybe someone just hopes that Casey has a better idea for how to deal with this war than what Santorum has.

I'm a woman, I'm pro-choice and I'm gonna say this now. I'm tired of women claiming "we're being repressed". Take a damn ticket, there has been a long and horrible history of just about everyone being repressed. Personally who knows if Casey will make our lives better. But I know this, Santorum won't. Casey is the better risk any given day

[Phillycat]

166. For the first time in my life, I will vote for an anti-choice candidate.

I love my country more than I do my pet issue. But it's a really repugnant moment for me, believe me. :puke:

[LynneSin]

175. You should be upset but thank you

It's not about "ME" it's about "US".

I don't want to vote for Tom Carper because he has betrayed me and the democratic party by endorsing Joe LIeberman. But he did that one week before the primaries and there was no other candidate on the ballot.

But I'll vote for Tom and I'll grimace while I do it. Because I do believe in John Kerry. And I believe in Barbara Boxer. And I believe in Ted Kennedy and I also believe in Patrick Leahy. Hell, I believe in Russ Feingold even though that stink voted for Ashcroft and Roberts.

I am not voting for Carper and you are not voting for Casey (if you live in PA). You're voting for the senators that you believe in, the ones that also are at the top of the party power list.

This is why I pull the Carper lever

[Phillycat]

179. I'm voting for a congressional shift in power.

I'm going to need one big clothespin, though. :puke:

[LynneSin]

185. This one big enough?

BTW, you have to share it, I'll need it for Carper

[Phillycat]

187. Heh. That's where I get off the El!

[LynneSin]

192. You working any campaigns in the area

I've done a little actually here in Delaware (don't tell anyone but for Beau Biden, he's running for AG and I don't even want to think what DUers would think of a democrat supporting a democrat who happens to be a son of a democrat).

But now that the weather is getting better I really do want to spend weekends in the PA area getting democrats elected

[mvd]

198. Locking

Topic has turned into a flame war, and the opening post basically encourages voting against Casey.

mvd
DU Moderator