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StefanX Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:27 PM
Original message
Paging Will Pitt: How PRINTING AT HOME could help ABC destroy itself
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 01:24 PM by StefanX
What if a few thousand DUers printed out Will Pitt's "data dump" on Clinton's anti-terrorism work:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/printer_083006J.shtml
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/WilliamPitt/86

and did a "literature drop" in strategic places - bookstores, laundromats, diners, coffee/watercooler areas at work, bus shelters, subway stops, college campuses, grocery-store checkouts, etc?

UPDATE:
Will mentioned that there's a condensed version of the data dump here:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/083006J.shtml

Then, when ABC airs its $40 Republican campaign commercial about 9/11, they'll just be exposing themselves as the backstabbing liars and traitors they really are.

There's no need for us to keep getting kicked in the teeth by the lies in the corporate media - not with all the great information and writers we have (and laser printers and CD/DVD burners).

The growth of blogs and peer-to-peer stuff shows that Americans are hungry for the truth. I say, let's give it to them - and give ABC plenty of rope to hang themselves with.

(Calling Will Pitt - Would you give permission for this as "fair use" of your material?)

UPDATE:
Just got a message from Will in my InBox where he says:
"Please feel free to reprint this. Just be sure to credit truthout. Thanks."
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, It sure couldn't HURT. . .
The more people exposed to the truth, the surer the innoculation against these lies...
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. K & R!
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not sure how effective that would be but it can't hurt. (nt)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. I already sent the data dump to the local abc affiliate
along with different CNN stories back in time on the Clinton administration and its attempts to get anti-terrorism legislation through and detailed analysis of the strikes in the Sudan. I'm waiting on a response.
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StefanX Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It's great that you're sending stuff to ABC
There might be SOME responsible people there who might act on it. (Not the same people who greenlighted this treasonous film.)

If ABC also sees that we're cabable of countering their lies directly, not just online but also offline, they might think twice in the future before going ahead with their lies.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sorry Do not trust Pitt or TO
I will not be caught putting out lies.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Here you go...
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 12:57 PM by snooper2
an old list I saved from DU many years ago, with a fraction of what Clinton did...different sources...
(ON EDIT, some of the links/pages have expired, but you can take the subject matter and find additional sources.)


Here are a few stories about Clinton's attempts to combat terrorist forces and the brick walls he ran up against:

http://www.aclu.org/news/n042495.html

April 24, 1995 The American Civil Liberties Union today said that the "counter-terrorism" proposals suggested by President Clinton Sunday evening threatened to repeat the mistakes of the past and erode constitutional principles that have shaped our society and remain at the core of our freedom and liberty.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9604/18/anti.terror.bill/index.html

April 18, 1996 Congress on Thursday passed a compromise bill boosting the ability of law enforcement authorities to fight domestic terrorism . . . The measure, which the Senate passed overwhelmingly Wednesday evening, is a watered-down version of the White House's proposal. The Clinton administration has been critical of the bill, calling it too weak.

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/p8_facta.htm

July 30, 1996 Paris -- A Fact Sheet from the July 30 ministerial meeting of the P-8 (the industrialized nations of the world plus Russia) notes that President Clinton for three years has led an international campaign to combat terrorism in concert with the P-8 as well as with allies in the Middle East and elsewhere . . . Following is the official text of the Fact Sheet.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

July 30, 1996 President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess . . . But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures . . . Clinton said he knew there was Republican opposition to his proposal on explosive taggants, but it should not be allowed to block the provisions on which both parties agree.

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/schenker.htm

August 25, 1998 The August 20 bombing of Osama bin Laden's terrorist bases in Afghanistan and the alleged bin Laden-funded chemical weapons production facility in Khartoum, was a decisive and appropriate U.S. response to the atrocities in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, and President Bill Clinton should be commended.

http://www.indiainfo.com/news/2000/03/21/clin

March 21, 2000 US President Bill Clinton said on Tuesday that he would take up with Pakistan military ruler Gen Pervez Musharraf the issue of terrorism in the Kashmir valley.

http://www.kdka.com/now/story/0%2C1597%2C1747

March 22, 2000 Clinton is pushing General Musharraf to use his influence with Afghanistan's leaders—the Taliban—to bring Bin Laden to trial . . . Even if Musharraf could convince the Taliban to give Bin Laden up, there is an abundance of anger, frustration and weapons in the region, left over from the Afghan war, when thousands of extremists came together to bring a superpower to its knees . . . That militant network has built up in this region over two decades of conflict. The president believes America must get deeply involved in South Asia to crack the terrorist problem, a process Clinton continues throughout this week.

And don't forget how GW stopped ongoing terrorist investigations:
FBI claims Bin Laden inquiry was frustrated
Officials told to 'back off' on Saudis before September 11
Greg Palast and David Pallister
The Guardian Wednesday November 7, 2001

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4293682,00.html

FBI and military intelligence officials in Washington say they were prevented for political reasons from carrying out full investigations into members of the Bin Laden family in the US before the terrorist attacks of September 11.
US intelligence agencies have come under criticism for their wholesale failure to predict the catastrophe at the World Trade Centre. But some are complaining that their hands were tied.
<snip>
They said the restrictions became worse after the Bush administration took over this year. The intelligence agencies had been told to "back off" from investigations involving other members of the Bin Laden family, the Saudi royals, and possible Saudi links to the acquisition of nuclear weapons by Pakistan.
"There were particular investigations that were effectively killed."
Only after the September 11 attacks was the stance of political and commercial closeness reversed towards the other members of the large Bin Laden clan, who have classed Osama bin Laden as their "black sheep".
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Please expound...


What specifically in Will Pitt's or TO's data is untrue?
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StefanX Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yeah, I don't trust Dan Rather either after Rove ratfucked him
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 01:08 PM by StefanX
When Jason Leopold reported on TruthOut that Fitz was going to indict Rove, and it didn't pan out, I think many people figured it was either a case of Rovian ratfucking - or maybe Leopold was gullible.

But TruthOut is still a great site.

And you're entitled to your opinions, but c'mon, WillPitt is a great writer! (And my name is NOT 'sprezzatura'!)

His data dump on Clinton

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/083006J.shtml

is filled with important facts - and you haven't rebutted single one, so I guess they all stand.

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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Pitt came on here and said trust his cokehead friend...
To this day TO has never admitted they put out shit on this matter.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. What in Will Pitt's data dump is incorrect?
Edited on Wed Sep-06-06 12:03 AM by Catrina
Is it more important to you to hold a grudge against a reporter, than to stop ABC from airing more Media lies?

This nonsense about that one story makes me wonder about the motivation behind it ~ it is totally out of proportion antagonism against a reporter, whose overall reporting on the Plame affair was so far superior to anything in the MSM. He gets one story wrong while the MSM got people KILLED, tens of thousands of them, with the lies they told.

If only the same venom that has been aimed at this relatively obscure reporter could be directed towards the MSM, maybe something could be accomplished. I am so sick of this stupidity. And I wonder about it now, as I did back when it started.

I know for sure, I trust Jason Leopold and Truthout based on their overall record, one hundred times more than I trust the MSM.

Again, what in Will Pitt's information is incorrect? We're all about to send it out to everyone we know, if you've got information that contradicts anything he states, now's the time to say so.

Thanks Will Pitt for giving permission to use your work .... I remember the 'nineties and the Republicans taking every opportunity to block Clinton's terror initiatives.

I also remember Orin Hatch and Phil Gramm stating that when he tried to freeze terrorist assets, which they blocked also, that Clinton was 'making a mountain out of a molehill'.

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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Well then, make your OWN list of what Clinton did to counter
OBL - do the research. On the other hand, if you don't believe that Clinton did all the things on Pitt's list to work against Al Queda and OBL, then the issue is bigger than your distrust of TO and Will Pitt. You don't believe the smears against Clinton, do you?

If you research and write your OWN list, then the main point of this thread will be satisfied, and YOU will be satisfied with the veracity of the data -- which you can then distribute as the OP asks.

Then you would be working to counter the lies of this ABC/Disney fake-u-mentary. Isn't that the point of this thread?

I will be happy to read your list.

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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. lol
i just remembered when the ignore button was a 'sleeping guy' icon ... :rofl:

go back to sleep!

dp
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kicked and recommended.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent idea!
Just excellent, well worth a K&R! If they don't do the correct thing, we have to take matters into our own hands.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Recommended - way to go on being the media!
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm ready to go, as soon as we have clearance. nt
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 01:24 PM by Fridays Child
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StefanX Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I just got a message back from Will in my InBox where he said:
"Please feel free to reprint this. Just be sure to credit truthout. Thanks."

(I asked him to say so IN THIS THREAD but he hasn't yet so I'll message him again - or feel free to message him yourself and paste in a link to this thread so he can get to it quick without hunting around.)

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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Proudly casting vote 10 for Greatest Page
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 01:27 PM by EVDebs
If ABC wants to put its sorry reputation on the line with this program, then prepare for truth or consequences. BTW, see related post at DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2051748

"it never happened" can't be much clearer than that. Will ABC 'fess up' ?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Please feel free to use that stuff as you please
I'd use the truthout one; it is far more organized.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Another Plan ...
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. A BOYCOTT has started on this thread:
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mp3hound Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. Yes, better to use a DU source than a truthout source.
Edited on Wed Sep-06-06 12:07 AM by mp3hound
DU has more credibility and it is probably better, safer, and wiser not to appear too closely aligned with truthout.

Love the plan, wyldwolf.

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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Interesting post I must say
Edited on Wed Sep-06-06 11:12 PM by Laurab
Welcome to DU! You have an interesting perspective. I don't necessarily share it.

DU has more credibility? I always thought it was a messageboard where anyone could post their opinions...

Not to take anything away from DU, there are excellent writers here, and great articles posted, as well as a lot of information, but DU is a messageboard, not a media source.

I DO love DU, I also think Truthout is credible, and I would be proud to "align myself with Truthout", and in particular, Will Pitt's story referenced in the OP. You might want to take a look at it when you have a chance.

One other thing - you can actually do BOTH things - I didn't see that as an alternate idea, I saw it as an additional idea. IMO they're both good.

Edited to remove a word or two.
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PresidentWar Donating Member (499 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Try to find a way to do it electronically.
The problem I have with lit drops is all the damn paper. You know where all that is gong to end up.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. We can freeway blog messages also.
What shall they say?
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. Looks like a Scientology rant! Throw it away!
When are you guys who write these handouts going to realize a few facts?

1) You need to write SIMPLE, SHORT SENTENCES and SHORT PARAGRAPHS.

The people you want to read this stuff aren't English majors. They have no desire to plow through your annotated and footnoted texts. They need simple, concise facts.

2) You need to include PICTURES.

One of them is worth far more than a thousand words. They add a mood, a feeling to what you're writing and for people who DON'T READ (and that includes 90 percent of all Americans) they can draw eyes to what you're saying.

3) You need to FOCUS.

Stop wandering into other areas. If your piece is about how Bush is an incompetent about 9/11, don't bring in global warming and growing hemp.

This is why long crapfests like this "handout" help Bush in the long run. It makes anyone with progressive ideas look like a college professor who is going to test you on the fine points of his wonderful oration, not someone who is trying to tell you the direct, simple truth.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Do better
Take all that data and make simple direct sentences.

Go.

We'll wait.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Here it is in sixteen words. Count 'em and weep.
---------------------------------
ABC Lies.
Clinton fought terrorism.
Bush killed anti-terror programs.
This time impeach the real crook!
---------------------------------
And that's sixteen words if you count "anti-terror" as two words.

Take this and put it in every supermarket, phone booth, park bench and bus station in America. THAT will get to people. An ego-stroking, self-congratulating boycott of ABC will have piddling effect.

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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. ouch!
Concise and to the point I like it!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. That'll get the people who already agree with it
Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 02:10 AM by WilliamPitt
See post #30.

Give me the next sixteen words.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. You do NOT need more than sixteen words! But...
...if you insist on doing haiku or some pretentious effete crap like that...

----------------------
3000 Americans are dead.
Bush killed them in his
war for oil and power.
Had enough?
----------------------

You do NOT need more than sixteen words. Consider this the "second flight" of the advertising campaign. If you keep adding "sixteen more words" you have that stinking doctoral thesis that started this, and no one will give a damn about reading it.

If you keep writing these long treatises, you may impress yourselves or your buddies at the Starbuck's, but you won't get ordinary people to read them or to effect change. This is why progressives keep losing elections; you don't talk like real people.

(Some would say you don't give a damn about real people, but I contend that you just don't know them and don't want to associate with them. You might actually care about them and get them on your side if you would quit trying to ram down their throats how smart you are.)

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