Joe Biden

[mykpart]

Is he really a Democrat? Sometimes I just can't stand to hear him speak. Will someone tell me about him?

[Jim Sagle]

1. Joe Biden is the answer.

That is, the answer to the question: "With Lieberman gone, who is the only Democratic Senator known to one and all as 'Jagoff Joe'"?

[evlbstrd]

2. He's the Senator from Delaware.

The state where the biggest creidt card companies are incorporated. Voted for the bankruptcy bill. Guess who owns him.

[mykpart]

4. I remember how he acted during the

Clarence Thomas hearings about Anita Hill. He helped get Thomas confirmed.

[evlbstrd]

19. He's DLC crap.

They'll talk what they think is a good opposition game, and then fall in line with their corporate masters. I will never vote for a candidate like that. Are you listening, Hillary?

[LynneSin]

30. Don't be a fricking dumbass - did you ever look it up

John Kerry was in the DLC, Biden never was.

Don't go slapping labels on everything you don't like. It's a shameful way to live

[saltpoint]

3. I've followed Biden for a long time, even if I tend to ignore him when

a presidential primary comes along.

He is a foreign relations adept. He led the Foreign Relations Committee against Bush's ill-advised nomination of John Bolton. He is far more informed on Middle East affairs than ANYONE in the Bush administration, especially the deceitful Condoleezza Rice.

Liberals take issue with Biden over his vote on the bankruptcy bill and other pro-corporate legislation. Biden's state is heavy with the credit industry and while it is smart politics for him in Delaware, it costs him esteem among Wellstone Democrats.

He is accused of theatricality, whether fairly or not is another question, especially in an era of Fred Phelps. He is more theatrical than Jeff Bingaman, but much less so than Jesse Helms, to name two of his colleagues over the years in the Senate.

He's smart, quirky, a multi-termed senator, a one-time presidential candidate (he withdrew shortly after allegations that he'd lifted some text passages from British writer(s) ), and he was often mentioned in a potential 2004 Kerry cabinet as Sec. of State.

He's already announced his interested in the party's nomination for 08.

[Jim Sagle]

6. The question is, is anyone ELSE interested in him as the nominee?

:boring:

[saltpoint]

7. I think Biden would do better in Iowa than people think he might.

He appeals to people because he's a long-time Democrat even more than for any particular ideology.

He had a pretty vigorous go of it the last time he ran for president.

He knows what he's doing and surrounds himself with some good folks.

He can raise cash, god knows.

I tend to choose other Democrats as placing 1, 2, 3, and 4 in Iowa, but I thought Dick Gephardt might win Iowa in 2004 and he was buried alive with 11%.

Anything can happen in politics.

[MADem]

13. Good summation. And he DID steal Neil Kinnock's speech, word for word

damn near (Neil, the Welsh Windbag, was Labour, but Margaret Thatcher was unbeatable). It was a BRILLIANT speech, but it wasn't Biden's.

There's videotape of both Kinnock, and Biden, that proved it. Humiliating for Biden, that. He even copied a few gestures.

There's also the matter of the personal vanity, the hairplugs. That's a real odd thing, there, as well. He's got all these hairplugs along his hairline, but he didn't have enough of them to give him a decent amount of coverage. He looks OK from the front, but from the sides and back he looks like he's been in a dreadful industrial accident or something.

[saltpoint]

16. Hi, MADem. My privilege to bump into you twice in the last so-many

hours here on DU.

My summary is abbreviated, and I may have cheated key concerns both pro and con.

I do love his principled, articulate stand against John Bolton, which told me a lot. I am a Bolton detractor with emphasis, and appreciated Biden's ferocity and clarity. Poor Dick Lugar looked like a country fool walking through a Star Trek convention.

[MADem]

17. Hey, we could do worse. At least Biden's shortcomings are

right out there for us to see, and they center around things like verbosity and vanity. I don't regard him as mendacious at all. He's one of those old school, give-back, public servants. It's a good thing.

The quality he has going for him most of all is that he really is NOT stupid. He has one of the finest 'foreign policy' minds in public service we've seen in the US for some time. He does understand big picture and long view. He also knows his history (that's something I regard as hugely important; ya don't know it, ya tend to repeat it!).

And you're right on the mark about John "Plato's Retreat" Bolton!

We really could do much, much worse.

:hi:

[saltpoint]

-- -- --

:dem:

:hi:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

34. What, you want POLLYANNA? Go to www.pollyanna.com

Why don't you try reading all my posts on the subject before, in whining neanderthal fashion, picking up your club and beating the shit out of me?

And further, your speculation as to my motives and "what I did in High School" (how the hell old are you?) is false and a pretty lame way of striking out because you disagree with what I had to say about the Senator. It's also what's called a "personal attack" and you aren't supposed to DO that sort of shit here. Capisce?

But reading is fundamental. Go on, READ what I wrote--there's not a single falsehood in my descriptions of Biden, and:

I said we could do worse. And we certainly could.

But I guess your way of approaching politics is PRETENDING that everything with Biden is "sweetness and light" when it flat out isn't. That's how we LOSE races, with blindered cheerleaders who ignore the obvious, the weaknesses the opposition will drag out. And the GOP WILL drag that shit out--to ignore this political FACT is naive, childish, and ignorant. And a guaranteed way to LOSE.

The Kinnock tape exists. The tape of his plagiarized speech EXISTS. Pictures of Joe before and after his plugs EXIST. To try to claim that he doesn't have a habit of enjoying the sound of his own voice droning on and on is nothing more than whistling-in-the-dark DENIAL.

The enemy may be Republicans, but Democrats who refuse to factor harsh realities into their assessments of potential candidates are equally dangerous. If you really want to be helpful, you might come up with strategies about how the Senator can overcome these painful FACTS, rather than stomping your foot, making wild speculations about my distant high school years (real adult, that) and petulantly shooting the messenger.

I suggest you gain some maturity in discussing these matters, get a thicker skin, and start understanding that politics is a contact sport. If you cannot manage that, do use that IGNORE option if what I say upsets you so much.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

10. You don't seem to like old people much.

How are you on blacks? Hispanics? People from the Seychelles?

Children?

Dogs?

[Chipper Chat]

14. Touche!

I, as an "old" person who resents being told he should retire, would like to see Ted Kennedy live to be 200.

[saltpoint]

15. Hi, Chipper Chat. Yep. Some of us old folks still get around.

As for your praise for Ted Kennedy there, I whole-heartedly endorse it. Ted's a lion and we need him by heart and brain and muscle for the fight ahead.

[MADem]

18. Another old fart, picking up a pitchfork and torch and yelling, YEAH!!!

We'll go when we're good and ready, when the young'uns have arthritis themselves!

Of course, I AM retired, but I do a lot of driving fellow old farts to the polls! I still work, but not for pay!

And you got that right -- live long, Teddy, my Senator!

[evlbstrd]

20. That was an unfair attack.

The poster's term "old guard" has no bearing on the age of the politician, and if you were being honest, you'd know that. The term is generally understood to mean "establishment." The politicians we'd like to replace.

[saltpoint]

21. I stand by it. The poster has twice this evening made reference

to "old guard' versus "new blood" and I was present on both threads.

In both cases poster slammed Democrats, which is a rules violation.

[evlbstrd]

22. I can't comment on the remarks on the Dem party.

I didn't read them.
You were turning the usage of "old guard" into an argument about age.

Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source new!
Main Entry: Old Guard
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: original group
Synonyms: conservative group, diehards, veterans, war horse
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

[saltpoint]

23. I spotted a clear trend which you missed and called the poster on it.

And I stand by it.

[evlbstrd]

25. The poster hates old people?

What's the cutoff age?

[saltpoint]

26. The poster has evidently decided, and won't tell anyone else.

So the entire known universe remains in doubt about its relevance.

Since Michelangelo and Georgia O'Keeffe worked until age 99, I don't much give a damn what the cut-off is.

[evlbstrd]

27. Link please?

All I have is your testimony.
edit:
I hope to live a long useful life myself.

[MADem]

35. Yeah, all that 'new blood' that didn't come out for Howard Dean

If the new blood wants to be taken seriously, they've got to get their asses to the polls in greater numbers, like we geezers do. But until there's a draft, or a proposal to initiate an extra YOUTH tax on incomes of all people under thirty, that's unlikely to happen. They say they're gonna go, but then a lot of them (not all, but a good chunk) don't follow through.

Participation was better in the last election than it was in 00, but I'd like to see it go higher. And it is especially important that they turn out in great force, because Rove's strategies always include his old buddy, VOTER SUPRESSION.

I haul my fellow geezers to the polls on walkers, in wheelchairs, with canes...they won't let anything stop them from doing that civic duty.

I wish the under-30s had equivalent motivation, and I'm hoping they'll bring it on this Nov.

[saltpoint]

37. I dearly love and appreciate our younger pals in the party, and

many of them did go out to support the whole ticket.

Your stats are exactly right, though -- and that age bracket could do with some improved voting percentages.

Especially if they want to slam us old-timers.

The party protocol at all levels needs to involve respsect. It's an irreplaceable component.

The OP asked into Joe Biden and an intelligent exchange of responses might have ensued. Instead we get the slammers and slashers.

[LynneSin]

32. Posts like I"m reading in here is the crap I did in 3rd grade

I thought this was a website where we banded together and defeat republicans

[saltpoint]

36. Sorry/wrong place ... 'thought this was the Gordon Lightfoot appreciation

thread.

[Egnever]

42. Don't give up the fight.

Think of it in a positive light. Clearly there are a lot of uninformed people around here these days. Every well researched post you make helps bring them that much closer to rectifying that situation.

The great thing is that there are so many people here thirsting for information. It can be maddening seeing so many posts from people just popping off but ... They are here instead of free republic or some other spew filled place. There is a chance they will take away some decent information. Especially if you keep chiming in with good information :)

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. He's sort of a pro-bush Democrat. In the mold of Joe.

[MaryRN]

28. Exactly. Plus, he's supporting Lieberman's Joe for Joe campaign.

He did happen to miss the train to a scheduled stumping event but I haven't heard any endorsement of Lamont by him.

He has zero appeal to me and he wouldn't get my vote no matter what he ran for.

[LynneSin]

33. OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU DON'T RESEARCH SHIT DO YOU

Joe Biden is in support of NED LAMONT

Tom Carper is in support of Lieberman

It took me all of 2 minutes to verify that from Bob Geiger's journal

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2785889

You know, it just makes DU stupid when we don't research our facts. It's so much easier to slander someone and slap DLC titles on them or accuse them of being in support of Lieberman.

And yet in Delaware we are fighting the VP of the DLC and a Lieberman supporter and everyone gives Tom Carper a free pass

Go figure

[Justice Is Comin]

9. He's an incessant grin in a suit.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Seems like two different issues

His being a Dem, and being able to listen to him.

Yeah, he's a centrist Dem.

No, I can't listen to the bombastic bastard.

He could be a liberal, and if he presented himself in his usual manner, I wouldn't be able to listen to him.

And I suspect the most dangerous place in Washington would STILL be between Joe Biden and a camera.

Regardless of his politics, he's a glory hound.

[Ediacara]

12. I think he's a liability more than an asset

The charges of plagiarism will haunt him forever and he may as well stop this idea that he's running for president in 2008 right now as it'll save his donors a boatload of cash. He's also an insufferable loud mouth. Even when he says things I agree with I just want him to shut up...

[Bluebear]

24. MBNA Biden and his bankruptcy bill done done him in for me.

No stomache for him.

[flyarm]

29. do not forget when Joe was on Maher show after outting of Gannon

Gannon said he met Biden a couple weeks before..it was like a warning..

i will never forget that..and after that it semed Biden went soft on Little lord pissy pants..and he clamed up about gannon...

fly

[Idioteque]

38. I can't say I like him but I totally respect him.

He is a foreign policy wonk and his position of progressive internationalism really is where the Democratic party needs to be.

On most issues he is a pretty reliable, sensible, liberal although the RAVE act is garbage.

[Egnever]

40. Well said

Couldnt agree more.

[Egnever]

39. While it isnt popular to say so on this board.

I like Biden. I dont agree with everything he does by any means and I am really dissapointed in anyone who voted for the bancruptcy fiasco. However when it comes to foreign policy I think the man is often way ahead of the pack.

I find it unfortunate that he is so often derided on DU. Guess you cant have everything.

[saltpoint]

41. You're allowed to endorse Democrats til the cows come home.

Don't be intimidated by people on these boards.

Many folks have favorite Democrats, and Democrats they like better than other Democrats.

But we tend to like all Democrats over any Republican.

A strong case can be made for Biden and there isn't one soul on these boards who knows how far Biden will get in his quest for the 08 nomination.

He could be at the top of the ticket for all any of us knows now.