Irwin was a daredevil.

[King Coal]

Most people watched him to get thrilled by watching him take chances. Remember the Wallendas? They refused to use a net. I always thought Steve Irwin was a charming guy, but I've been around people who like to show off with rattle snakes and its no fun when one of them gets snakebit. In fact, it always pissed me off; I've had to cart a few to the hospital and never had one die on me. Where I live there are lots of snakes and it's best to just leave them alone unless you have no choice but to kill it. Even though I think this was a freak accident and that Steve was just unlucky getting stung by the stingray, he was a daredevil. I won't watch a high-wire act unless a net is used. I won't watch bullfights at all. God bless his wife and family.

[WindRavenX]

1. it was an accident

Sting rays are NOT AGRESSIVE.

Good fucking grief.

Yes, he was tempting fate and all that, but can we please get the facts straight here?

[King Coal]

2. I don't think you read the whole post.

[WindRavenX]

3. yes I did

It's the same BS that's been repeated ad neasum all day-- he was daredevil, blah blah blah. Did you mention he has worked his entire life not to just entertain but to inform the public of the wild and help otherwise would be killed crocodiles? His entire zoo houses nothing but rehabed animals that would otherwise be put down.
So I take offense to him being called a daredevil. That cheapens what wonderful work he did for the public.

[PresidentWar]

12. Then you ignored the parts you didnt like.

Here is what was written, with the bolded part reiterated that he said from the get go it was an accident

"Even though I think this was a freak accident and that Steve was just unlucky getting stung by the stingray, he was a daredevil."

A daredevil is someone who gets a thrill by tempting fate. As nice a guy as Steve was, you cannot say that this was a guy who didn't clearly enjoy how close he could come to that fate. Yes, Steve was a daredevil, and I don't see why acknowledging that fact is so blasphemous.

[WindRavenX]

14. And again

Where is the part that mentions his lifetime of education and generosity? He isn't JUST a daredevil/croc wrestler, whatever you want to call him-- he was a bona fide educator who inspired a lot of people, myself included, to go and share their passion of science and animals with the public.

THAT'S my problem with the label. He was much more than that.

[PresidentWar]

20. Ah, so you don't deny the daredevil part. Well enough.

That's really all the contention was. There's nothing wrong with being a daredevil. But if "the bear gets YOU", please, we can dispense all the cannonizations because I'm sure Steve was smart enough to know what he was actually doing by putting himself in harm's way.

[pnwmom]

23. I never forgave him for dangling his baby around the crocs, on TV.

He apparently did some good things for animals, but he was lacking in common sense.

[seabeyond]

25. "dangling" his baby. are you being accurate. or rhetoric for points

i watched the video. i would never allow my children in there. and there was not a single thing wrong with what irwin did. and it was certainly not "dangling". are you to be taken seriously when you would describe irwin as "dangling" his baby. what an absurd comment. i didnt much care one way or another for the man, until that whole circus and i listened to such stupid comments. misinformed, or purposely ignorant.

there was no "dangling". so what is that

[pnwmom]

27. I watched the video too. The baby was under his arm and easily

accessible to the giant croc that he was feeding at the time.

If you don't like the word "dangling" then take the word "accessible." He was lucky that croc didn't make the baby part of his "dinner." One good lunge and that baby would have been dead.

[seabeyond]

29. he had the baby on the side of body turned away from the croc

it would have gotten his other arm or leg. and he had two men right next to him that would have gotten the baby and quite sure the man would have given his body for the baby.

the baby wasnt "accessible" either. but dangling is implying what he was doing with the piece of meat. literally and for real, dangling it over the snout of the croc. and well over its nose seeing how he was standing and croc on all four

it just was not dangerous for the baby

[pnwmom]

34. Here's a photo. See how the baby's legs are dangling?

Crocodiles can be very very fast. He was lucky the croc was more interested in the chicken.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/01/02/australia.crocodileman/

[seabeyond]

35. you proved my point. you suggest the croc is going to bypass his arm

body and two legs to reach itself up 4 ft to grab onto those babies legs. as i say, he has his body in front of the croc. it will be he that gets taken, and there were two men that would grab the baby, but beyond that, having been around croc they were pretty confident in their abilities and the croc behavior, i will give them knowledge as a plus over mine.

[pnwmom]

38. My view of that picture is that the croc had a clear shot at the baby.

It's fine if he wanted to risk his own life, confident that he had the risks under control, but it wasn't fine that he risked a baby's.

[seabeyond]

30. i will be straight

i won't go to the grand canyon because i picture my kids going over the edge. i picture the very worst. i am horribly over proctective to the point of doing harm. but that is who i am, and my kids allow me that knowing i am so good in so many other areas. i could never allow my baby to be in that situation because i would picture the worst. they had to stop a ferris wheel because my four year old son was on and i was going crazy on the ground. not good

the mom was comfortable with irwin taking baby in there. dad was confident in his abilities with baby in there. i can respect that. and when i rationally look at the video i could see the baby was not in danger and there were safety precautions being taken and out for the baby IF anything happened.

[pnwmom]

31. Millions of people all over the world saw the video and were as shocked

as I was.

But I'm glad to hear you are more careful with your own kids. Me, too.

[seabeyond]

33. my gosh, i just cannot stand that attitude

i really cant. i am so tired of people, all kinds of people, deciding what is right for others. who i am as a person, thank god, is not another. i dont demand or expect or know that my way is the only way.

your; i am glad to hear you are more careful, is not a compliment or comforting to me.

[pnwmom]

39. Children need to be protected. Sometimes from their parents.

And the child protection people in Australia were concerned enough by the same pictures to investigate.

[TomInTib]

5. Some ass on CNN talking about stingray "attack"

Good grief.

I got nailed once when I stepped on one while gigiing for flounder at night.

I have done a lot of dumb things in my life but that one was definitely the most painful.

But I was to blame, not the ray.

[demobabe]

36. It doesn't matter if an animal is not aggressive

A herpetologist I respect and like a lot is Melissa Kaplan, and she posted this to the Iguana mailing list on Yahoo today:

This quote from the article serves as reminder that no matter how tame and
socialized a pet is--or relatively harmless a wild animal is known or
perceived to be--stuff happens.

----------------------
Wildlife experts said the normally passive creatures only sting in defence,
striking with a bayonet-like barb when they feel threatened.

Marine documentary maker Ben Cropp, who spoke to one of Mr Irwin's crew,
said: "Steve got probably maybe a bit too close to the ray, and with the
cameraman in front, the ray must have felt sort of cornered.

"It went into a defensive mode, stopped, turned around and lashed out with
its tail, which has a considerable spike on it.

"Unfortunately Steve was directly in its path and he took a fatal wound."

http://tinyurl.com/o2y9n

[Mythsaje]

4. He made his life about debunking the myths about

some of the creatures that frighten us the most. He fought for habitat for even the scariest of creatures, and took his crusade on television to reach the most people possible. Sure, he took chances, and he was a daredevil, but it wasn't just about his own glory. It was about the creatures he loved and their future.

The irony was that he was killed doing something thousands of people do all the time... by a creature that generally poses no serious threat.

Wrestle crocs? Crikey. No problem. Drag rattlers out of their holes by their tails? Same deal. The guy dragged the most fearsome beasts in front of the camera and showed them to the world, with love and admiration shining in his eyes.

But, in the end, he was killed by a goddam ray. Who'd have thunk it?

[WindRavenX]

6. well, the local news had a clip about "killer" rays

:eyes:

It was a freak accident. I thought for SURE a snake would get him eventually..

[King Coal]

7. See what I mean? Snakes did get him every once in a while.

I said it was a freak accident in the post you didn't quite read completely. You thought a snake would get him eventually, but deny he was a daredevil? You don't have to monkey around with snakes to prove that they are harmless reptiles. They're not. Leave them alone.

[WindRavenX]

11. Oh christ

You thought a snake would get him eventually, but deny he was a daredevil? I said it was belittling to him to say he was ONLY a daredevil. His teaching style-- and why it was so popular and effective in teaching the public-- was hands on. As someone who has worked HANDS ON with animals for education purposes, he was effective and entertaining.

[progdonkey]

15. right, a true "daredevil" doesn't bother with learning about the animals..

He was very educated about crocs and wanted to educate others about them. It's not like he was a cast member on Jackass, where they sat around high one day and said, "Dude, we should go wrestle some crocs. Awesome!" No, it was about showing to the world that these animals are, yes, extremely dangerous and you shouldn't mess around with them without knowing what you're doing, but they're still remarkable creatures that deserve respect. If anything, he was the anti-daredevil: doing everything he could to minimize the risk to himself and to others by learning everything about crocs.

I think the fact that he died in what was really just a freak accident that could easily have happened to a member of the crew (or really just anyone at some other place and time) shows that he wasn't just some adrenaline-junkie daredevil: he got bitten by crocs and snakes, but was never killed by one. Why? Because he knew what he was doing; he took the time to educate himself about everything concerning crocs, snakes, and other reptiles. I remember one episode where they had to rescue some birds, and he was about ready to shit his pants because he was terrified of birds; he didn't want to get anywhere near their claws, because he didn't know what might spook them as he was simply completely ignorant about how to handle birds. He knew everything about crocs, so he had no fears about being around them; he didn't know anything about birds, so he stayed the hell away and let the experts take over. That doesn't sound like a daredevil, just a guy with some sense!

He could just as easily have been dealing with a croc, got thrown off, found himself next to a Black Widow, got bitten, and died. It's a freak accident of circumstance, relating only indirectly to his being "the Crocodile Hunter."

[Mythsaje]

18. Maybe not a black widow

they're not particularly dangerous to adult humans...

but I get your point.

He may have SEEMED like a daredevil, but he was knowledgable and did know what he was doing.

It's an important distinction.

[progdonkey]

19. well, neither are stingrays... ;-)

To quote your earlier post, "He was killed doing something thousands of people do all the time... by a creature that generally poses no serious threat."

If a black widow isn't "particularly dangerous to adult humans," how is it any different from a stingray in this regard? :smoke:

[Mythsaje]

22. A stingray CAN be dangerous to anyone...

One would have to be rather small (under 100 lbs or so) or allergic to a black widow's bite to be killed by one. ANY human could conceivably be killed by a ray the way Steve was...

[pnwmom]

24. Uh-huh. What kind of anti-daredevil dangles his baby

over a group of crocodiles?

He was much too full of himself in my opinion.

[progdonkey]

37. yes, that was wreckless by "normal" standards...

If I had a newborn baby, went to the zoo, jumped into the croc pen, and started baiting a croc with chicken while holding my newborn, you'd be right to take my kid away from me and put me in prison.

But I'm no Steve Irwin. That's not to say he was some superman, but he was certainly a top expert in crocodile wrangling, so the baby was in extremely safe hands (considering the context, of course).

Yes, there was the possibility that the croc might've made a sudden move, scared Irwin, causing him to stumble back, releasing the baby onto the ground and into the waiting jaws of the croc, but is it really reasonable to believe that that croc could've done anything to frighten Irwin? This was a guy who'd seen everything a croc could do, who had supreme confidence in his abilities with crocs, so the idea that he would've panicked and lost his grip on the child (which was the one most commonly put forward) was very unlikely.

What I mean is that the danger that Irwin put his baby in was probably no greater than any father who straps his baby into the family sedan every day. Yes, feeding a chicken to a crocodile while holding your newborn baby sounds so fundamentally stupid and dangerous, but when you add in that the person doing it was such an expert and confident around crocs that the odds of something bad happening fall dramatically, you have to realize that the actual danger that baby was in was minimal (or at the very least, no greater than the danger to the baby in the sedan).

If you mentioned to someone who had never seen or heard of an automobile that you routinely strap your child into a two-ton metallic structure and then zip around town at 40mph, that person would think you're as wreckless with your child as you think Irwin was, right? But you know how to drive, the child has a safety seat, etc., so the actual risk is minimized and is actually nowhere near as great as it appears at first glance. The child would, however, be in extreme danger if it were driven around by this hypothetical person who's never even heard of an automobile, just as it would if it only had me--who can't even tell the difference between a crocodile and alligator--to protect it in a crocodile pen, but when the child is provided the proper safety harnesses and driven around by a knowledgeable driver or is likewise in the hands of a crocodile expert, it's in far less danger of injury.

[ForrestGump]

26. Excellent post

:headbang:

He was a 'daredevil' only in the best sense of the word (he was not afraid of life or of risking it to benefit others, human and otherwise), and he used it to educate as few others ever have. The risks were controlled, largely by his own experience.

[undeterred]

8. Jesus was a prophet.

[King Coal]

9. So was Eve, but she got knocked up monkeying around with the apple snake.

[PresidentWar]

13. After Lillith!

but of course that's another story...

[Canadiana]

10. This was a freak accident

Getting killed by a stingray is pretty damn rare. He might as well have gotten hit by lightening or died in a plane crash. This is what upsets me about this...it would seem less senseless if he died from being a daredevil; if he got maimed by a croc. But he didn't....this was a pretty random accident.

[OzarkDem]

16. He was a great educator

something most "daredevils" don't do. He brought the world of wild animals and great lessons about protecting the environment and animal habitats to many people.

And he did it in a very entertaining way! Bless him and his family, his work will live on for a long time.

[ComerPerro]

17. I think that's the most stunning part. He seemed invincible

[PresidentWar]

21. No one is immune from Nature. No one.

[pnwmom]

28. He obviously thought he was. Which is why he carried his baby

in with him to feed the crocs.

[tyedyeto]

32. So????

He was still an environmentalist.