How do we fix it? Therapy?

[undergroundpanther]

I saw this thread today...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x87128

Psychotherapy is not so scientific as it pretends to be... Even the biological model.

http://intotem.buffnet.net/mhw/29ap.html

It does not reliably cure what ails us. Because what ails us is for most people invisible,it is the way we have to live and the socially reinforced beliefs that keep us here..What makes us sick is being dehumanized,silenced, discounted, used,exploited,seen as less, abused belittled and extorted.People mistreat each other,chronically.Well,Certain people mistreat people chronically.
http://www.cinemaniastigma.com/pages/7/

Others seem to not desire to mistreat people.

Psychotherapy has it's origins in Shaman-ism,Mesmerism,Exorcism and torture...as in torture the patient until he behaves or things like THIS:

http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-122.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0876/is_n62/ai_12296630
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/archive/exhibits/bedlam/f_bed.htm

..It isn't all that sophisticated.However it tries to be,and psychotherapy has impressive failure rates and outrageous social power to give different people a social death sentence. (as in crazy = discount what they say about society ,human nature or their own experiences)

http://discover-your-mind.co.uk/1ab%20-%20abreactn-4.htm
http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Eysenck/psychotherapy.htm

Talk therapy is a gentler form of shaman ism.Journeying inward to find out why you do as you do,creative visualization,dreams,and whatnot are all features explored in therapy. Often it's to dismantle old beliefs and defense mechanisms that seem to be causing the issue and those stuck defenses come from defending against abuse or being mistreated or humiliated.That's what a DEFENSE means it defends the self from an assault. And humans assault and discount each other emotionally, verbally,physically,financially, ect..with
amazing frequency .

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/05_history.html
http://www.bullyonline.org/stress/index.htm
http://www.cipa-apex.org/toomuch/articlenew2006/July3a.html

Most humans would not know what a equal respectful relationship was if they saw one.Just like No therapist can define sanity outside the contexts of work or fitting in with this abusive sick culture without the stress causing symptoms..

So Now the new age and church is reentering the heads shrink business.offering exorcisms and new age cures,funky diets homeopathy ands colonics..anything to fix what ails,just short of ENDING THE ABUSE and ending competitiveness for the love of each other and making it SAFE enough to trust and exist around each other as we are,so we can process our feelings and traumas...

http://www.sidran.org/anna.html
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/ritual_abuse/81275

."In the right environment. All expressions of emotions are therapeutic. As you come to accept the reality of a safe,. Welcoming environment for your healing, the emotions will begin to appear."
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/14_2%20The%20Roseto%20Effect.htm
And those emotions can look scary can be rage,grief,they can look bizarre and be self mutilating. Crazy.

And until we as a society learn that being crazy is not the result of an individuals inability to cope with life in an abusive culture but instead it is the result of being systematically forced to accept abuse..I feel the individual is wounded by this culture early on,ands continues to be,and since most cannot cope with abuse,

http://www.nospank.net/main.htm

than IF we stop abusing each other ,controlling one another for non abusive reasons,we may begin to see past our pasts ..stop offering silly but profitable to the con man, "solutions" to silence and repress uncomfortable emotions like colonics,prozac or exorcisms.

http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/everyman1.htm
http://www.ebm-first.com/?cat=12
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1020-20.htm

If we could learn to communicate, to listen,to find sane boundaries on things that count like real abuse, rather than worrying about who's gay,who has bad hair or cusses, as individuals get over aesthetic differences and focus on the real issues and as a culture do this until we can stop repeating the same threatening patterns that are done to each other that lead to political solutions like empires and eugenics to modify the environment to foster an illusion of safety through conformity and monoculture. A game Designed to suppress the raw emotions rising in us when we see and feel the results of a life of rejection,despair,feeling like a lesser,abuse,the weaknesses,differences, limits ,unmet needs, and suffering in others we might change after the dark night of the self..Maybe humans can learn to not abuse one another and play make believe about it. Maybe someday something effective can be done about the sociopath problem.We may never be SAFE from tornadoes droughts accidents or floods..But can't we learn to be SAFE ,and caring around Each other and become intolerant of the kinds of personalities that harm that safety and well being??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/26/AR2005062601091_pf.html
http://www.mind.org.uk/Information/Factsheets/History+of+mental+health/Notes+on+the+History+of+Mental+Health+Care.htm
http://www.realchangenews.org/pastissuesupgrade/2000_10_15/features/sick_of_it_all.html


I don't think humanity will not heal through psychotherapy,biomedical or otherwise for the problem is not just in the individual ,we won't heal through exorcism or hypnosis.We won't heal through homeopathy or prayer cloths either.
http://www.unknownnews.org/060217a-Panther.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html
http://www.uncommon-knowledge.co.uk/psychotherapy.html

We might heal when we find a social situation where it is safe enough to be a witness to the pain we feel and express it without fear shame or attack. If the pain of our personal existence and can be listened to until there is nothing more to be said,we might "be over it". But when your expression is cut short,stifled limited,bound up,told to"get over it"faster or shut up now, be rejected,discounted,Or that you are crazy it helps nothing it suppresses.And it comes back on you later...Alot of hurting people long to know if they are being heard, taken seriously and are accepted and loved despite the pain expressed or not expressed but held in. WE all want to be cherished..Alot of people want to feel that our reactions to being hurt are not seen as something wrong with us we are ,crazy or it's our own fault or our own personal moral flaw,but as the results of injuries, assaults done by the many bullies in this world that one endures from birth on wards upon the sacred person hood..But for our society to acknowledge this psychopathy/bully problem,and how deep and common it IS it would have to create some BOUNDARIES As individuals we would have to enforce these boundaries without pity.As a society we would have to do it too. Which means abuse, exploitation and such won't be so tolerated, excused or blamed on the target of the abuser anymore.

We will have to protect each other's person and not be bystanders or enablers to abusive people. It will have to be the perpetrator personality who pays for his choices to harm and whom must stop or change or be exiled from the group. Not the victims.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-7-476029,00.html

In our culture we too often by stand, defer and offer excuses for the abusive ways of the aggressive,selfish, manipulating narcissistic authoritarian individuals among us.This has got to stop.

http://www.advocateweb.org/HOPE/costofabuse.asp


...
While most psychological studies of psychopathy have been based on prison populations, there's an emerging (and controversial) recognition that many individuals with this cluster of personality characteristics, are not in prison. The traits of these individuals are so distinctive that they may even represent a distinct taxon, a true sub-species of mankind -- consisting of otherwise normal human beings who are completely lacking in normal human responses to social interactions with others.

In his book, "Without Conscience", Hare writes: "To give you some idea of the enormity of the problem that faces us, consider that there are at least 2 million psychopaths in North America; the citizens of New York City have as many as 100,000 psychopaths among them. And these are conservative estimates. Far from being an esoteric, isolated problem that affects only a few people, psychopathy touches virtually every one of us.Consider that the prevalence of psychopathy in our society is about the same as that of schizophrenia, a devastating mental disorder that brings heart-wrenching distress to patient and family alike. However, the scope of the personal pain and distress associated with schizophrenia is small compared to the extensive personal, social and economic carnage wrought by psychopaths. They cast a wide net, and nearly everyone is caught in it one way or another.

The most obvious expressions of psychopathy -- but by no means the only ones -- involve fragrant criminal violations of society's rules. Not surprisingly, many psychopaths are criminals, but many others remain out of prison, using their charm and chameleonlike abilities to cut a wide swath through society and leaving a wake of ruined lives behind them. Together, these pieces of the puzzle form an image of a self-centered, callous and remorseless person profoundly lacking in empathy and the ability to form warm emotional relationships with others, a person who functions without the restraints of conscience. If you think about it, you will realize that what is missing in this picture are the very qualities that allow human beings to live in social harmony.

It is not a pretty picture, and some express doubt that such people exist. To dispel this doubt you need only consider the more dramatic examples of psychopathy that have been increasing in our society in recent years. Dozens of books, movies, and television programs, and hundreds of newspaper articles and headlines, tell the story: Psychopaths make up a significant portion of the people the media describe -- serial killers, rapists, thieves, con men, wife beaters, white-collar criminals, hype-prone stock promoters and "boiler-room" operators, child abusers, gang members, disbarred lawyers, drug barons, professional gamblers, members of organized crime, doctors who've lost their licenses, terrorists, cult leaders, mercenaries, and unscrupulous businesspeople.

http://www.911-strike.com/psychopaths.htm

[Annces]

1. One idea is that we are out of balance

There are natural laws and we have to abide by them or we will pay one way or other. Also there is need to adapt as world changes. Thinking even of Eskimos of Alaska and Canada. Even their shamans ended up starving to death when white man came in and changed their traditional ways of life (People of the Deer by Mowat). We are still changing, but not adapting.

Anyway, I like reading your posts. And agree that a lot of what therapists treat in individuals, is really a society problem that needs to be remedied.

I was in a bullying workplace for a while, not currently thankfully. And they were doctors. The leader started out trying to intimidate me, to make sure I was in my place. It was laughable. He made life bad for many people. He had a grand type of energy, and a beautiful office with a lot of love for his family. It was not as if he was all bad. There was no integrity there. I managed to get along with him and even gave him a beautiful present when I left, which I wonder if I should have done. We do have to adapt though to work in some places. It is sort of like the olden days of the small kingships in some places and that is how things operate.

[Cerridwen]

2. Riddle me this.

What happens to people under the following circumstances:

Each and every person has a comfortable home, healthy food and excellent health care. They know that they will "always" have them and have no fear of losing them. They know their children (should they choose to have children) are also guaranteed these things. Now suppose, these same people can have children or not, as they so choose, without repercussions or judgement either way. What if sex was something considered "normal" and healthy, "sacred" and loving? What if we each went through our lives doing those things we enjoy, e.g. some people like making widgets, or tallying rows and columns of numbers, some enjoy sewing, woodworking, creating and/or mediating laws, resolving conflict in creative and non-violent ways, some enjoy making sure others "draw inside the lines" or enjoy investigating anomalies, some enjoy teaching or leading teachers, building houses, making machinery, fixing machinery, etc. What if we each did those things just 'cuz? What if we were so busy creating we didn't have time to control others? And what if, we were able to stop and play with our friends, on our schedule, spend quality time with our family, on our schedule? In short, what if our lives were really, our lives?

What if we all lived this way and thought it normal?

Would we "need" cigarettes, liquor, caffeine, medication, drugs, therapy?

[Stargazer99]

3. Wow! you are one that gets it....

Therapy has helped me deal with a very unhappy childhood (divorce or parents, sexual abuse by substitute parent, loss of education, alcoholic family enviorment,marriage to an abusive individual) but it cannot help with the stress of being very low income. I'd like to have some more education in order to earn more but the money is not there. I need dental care but the money is not there. It is a stuggle to meet basic needs and there is no extra, not even for taking a short trip to the beach. At times it gets me down and therapy can only offer me medication. Instead of the society being ordered in such as manner as help me make my life situation better, I'm offered medicine. I'm over 65 years old now so there is no point.
In order for a plant to grow strong and healthy, it needs proper soil, sunshine and water. How can the culture expect people to be healthy functioning members when the soil, sunshine and water are contaminated? Some might be able to overcome it, but that does not mean everyone has the internal strengths to beat it.

[datasuspect]

4. therapist = the rapist

of your mind.