A question on racism and political correctness.

[Horse with no Name]

My 3-yr old granddaughter is learning her colors. So, when we go places, I will point out yellow flowers, green grass, blue skies, etc.
We were at the pediatrician's office the other day.
She said "Look Nana! It's a brown girl".
If only the floor could have opened and taken me away. I was so embarrassed.
I was trying to tell her not to do this...but then, I thought. The girl was actually a black girl. But she was, in all actuality, brown.
There wasn't a racial slur...just an observation.
The Mother of the girl just smiled so thankfully there weren't any hard feelings.
But truthfully, is what she said really wrong?
I ask this humbly, because I am white and now I am curious as to whether the observations of a 3-yr old could be construed as being racist. If so, I want to combat that immediately.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Inappropriate, but not racist.

Not to worry - might have been good to say "She's learning her colors" and laugh it off or something and then say to her "Yes, she is - well done on recognizing the color - but we don't point out things about other people because it's not polite". But from a 3 year old, even if she had said, "Look - it's a little n****** girl!" it wouldn't be her being racist, but her spouting yours or her parents' racism.

It is a good time, at three years, to begin teaching her etiquette and that it is not polite to point things out about other people, whether it be skin color, deformities, race, tattered clothes, etc.

[Kutjara]

5. I see your point, but....

...if we think of skin color in the same terms as "deformities...tattered clothes, etc.'" aren't we being even bigger racists? Skin color is no more important than eyecolor and nobody would have a problem with a child who said, "look, grandma, there's a greeneyed girl." But noticing that someone is 'brown' is somehow racist? This can't be right.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Perhaps I was not clear enough - I never said it was racist.

It's not about racism, it's about in appropriately pointing out something about a stranger. It would be equally impolite to point out eye colors, the size of diamonds on a ring, a fur coat, a beautiful nose, or a watch, whatever. One never knows how a person feels about their physical attributes, and generally people don't want strangers pointing out their accoutrements.

Your hypothetical "nobody" who would have a problem with the girl shouting out about green eyes might be someone who has hated her green eyes since childhood because of kids teasing her, or people constantly commenting on them like she's some kind of freak, or because her depressed father who committed suicide was the only other family member with green eyes.

This is why it is important to teach the young'uns that other people are not walking billboards about which we can point out anything we see, even the seemingly innocuous or "good" stuff.

[Kutjara]

14. You bring up a very important point.

How much are we 'entitled' to notice about eachother and how much are we supposed to ignore? Your counterexample about green eyes is entirely valid, but I wonder how careful we need to be. The extreme is that we ultimately end up saying, "good morning average citizen, may I complement you on how unexceptional you look today?" to our husbands and wives.

If we teach children that their enquiring minds can ask about anything except other people, what sort of message does that deliver?

Obviously, we should teach children that it is unacceptable to comment on someone's unusually large nostrils or inability to walk without a cane, but by responding with embarassment to an innocent comment about skin color is perhaps taking sensitivity too far. And this comes from someone whose Spanish friends have nicknamed 'the Ghost'.

[Rabrrrrrr]

20. We are entitled to notice everything and anything we wish.

How much we are entitled to comment on depends on the relationship one has with the person. If one has no relation, than there is very little one can coment on. One can say, "Your coat is very beautiful" or "I love your earrings" to a stranger, but one cannot point and say "That lady's coat is expensive! (or shabby)" or "Look at all the jewelery on that lady" or "that man is black" to a stranger.

You ask the question:

If we teach children that their enquiring minds can ask about anything except other people, what sort of message does that deliver?

God forbid, but it might send the message that manners and etiquette are important to a civil society.

There's nothing wrong with asking a parent about someone once one is out of earshot of that person.

Heck, even a group of adults can cattily comment on someone's whorish makeup or bright limegreen spandex body suit once they out of earshot of the person one wants to comment on. It's still rude, and there are better things for people to talk about, but what the hell - I've certainly done it. Many times. Some things just can't go without making some kind of comment...

But a polite person simply does not do it in front of the person.

[misanthrope]

15. People who wear...

...fur coats and jewelry usually do so to get noticed and probably would not take umbrage at the attention.

[Rabrrrrrr]

17. Ah, of course - obviously, they are screaming for attention

and want the world to know how much money they have.

Probably they want people to ask them how much they have in their investment portfolio. Next time I see someone with jewelery or a fur coat, I'll ask them about their financial worth, since that's clearly what they want.

Of course it's impossible for someone to have any motivation for wearing something other than screaming, desperately, for attention.

:eyes:

It's been my experience that people usually wear things because they like them, not because they want to get noticed, except t-shirts with sayings or advertisements on them or clothing that's ridiculously out of the norm. But, that's just my experience - maybe your circle of friends are different?

You do realize how classist your pronouncement is, don't you?

[misanthrope]

35. You do realize...

...how purely argumentative your pronouncement is, don't you?

[boolean]

38. It's not inappropriate either

It's absolutely fine to acknowledge that we all have different skin colors.

Stop this nonsense.

[Kutjara]

2. I certainly don't think so.

Your granddaughter was just expressing what she experienced, without the filter of race or culture. Just as there are no 'black' people (melanin doesn't run that far into the spectrum), there are also no 'white' people (as a northern European of Celtic stock, I'd argue that I'm actually a pale blue person) or 'yellow' people. Color is just color. It is we adults that burden the rainbow with our own prejudices.

If anything, your granddaughter's remark was the very opposite of racism. I hunger for the day when we can talk about eachother's skin color the same way we talk about eye color: as an interesting but unimportant quality. Sadly, I doubt I'll live to see it.

[orpupilofnature57]

3. Typical 3 yr old , you Point at flowers ,not People

Tell her not to point ,but do point at ,out and to.

[thepurpose]

4. You shouldn't feel embarrassed or even construe this as racism. There is

absolutely nothing wrong with you or your grand daughter. Colors are beautiful and different colored people are beautiful. What the heck's wrong with that?

[Kutjara]

6. Thank you thank you thank you.

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for saying it so simply and beautifully.

[fasttense]

7. Three year olds say the darnest things.

No I don't think what she said was racists. It's kind of hard to come up with the right thing to say at an embarrassing moment. When my daughter was three she was asking why her brother and she were different. I explained to her that she was a girl and she had a vagina and her brother was a boy and he had a penis. Well, that morning when I walked into daycare with her, she proudly told the first daycare worker she saw, "I have a vagina and my brother has a penis." I could have melted into the floor. Luckily the daycare worker was very enlightened and laughed then said, "So, you are learning what makes girls and boys different." My daughter proudly nodded and ran off to play with her friends.

[cally]

8. This brings back some not too great memories

My daughter, who had friends of various races or as she would say then, colors, chose one day in a department store to notice the multi hues of humanity. Of course, she didn't choose to notice jer friends or their parents that I knew, nope she chose to notice the barely adult taking his sibling out to shop. He was very dark, almost black, and my three year old pointed this out to me in a very loud voice. The only thing that saved me from total humiliation is that she then proceeded to notice everyone's skin colr. The lady with the green tights really made her laugh.

[Heidi]

9. That's not racism.

Racism is a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Your little one wasn't asserting any belief that the "brown girl" was in any way inferior; she was just pointing out a difference that she hasn't often seen. I don't think you've any need to be embarrassed or worried. The more your granddaughter is exposed to the diversity of the world, the less likely she will be to point it out. :hi:

[dipsydoodle]

11. Well spoken

Good to read some common sense rather than some of the accusations which inevitably crop up on such postings.:)

[Heidi]

13. In my family,

we were encouraged to be curious and our parents were committed to explaining in rational terms any thing we asked about. However, the rule for expressing our curiosity in public was, "You needn't burden the rest of the world with the first thing that pops into your head." The older I become, the wiser my parents seem to me. :)

[dipsydoodle]

16. Main thing I remember from childhood

was being brought up never to stare at other folk - not for any reason. :)

[orpupilofnature57]

26. Exactly , though questions should be promoted.

[ComerPerro]

45. could look at it as an opportunity, too. I know of a similar situation

where a friend was with a nephew of hers (very young, I think 4) and she saw a black co-worker while she was out shopping. She stopped, introduced her nephew, they talked for a while. As they walked away, her nephew said something like "I don't know very many brown people"

So she something to the effect of "some people have darker skin, some have ligher skin, but they are all people, just the same".


Her nephew agreed that he was a nice man, and was interested by the encounter.


At that age, its not racist. It could easily be misconstrued, but most "brown" people I know would not be offended (and maybe amused, even) by a comment from such a young child, as long as the comment was innocent enough and as long as the adult handled things properly.


The younger children are when they are exposed to people of different color and coulture, the less likely they are to become Republican, racist xenophobes.

[datasuspect]

12. we were raised

among all sorts of races in a poor neighborhood.

an african american was never a surprise to me.

i have met people who never saw a black person until they were in school.

[dipsydoodle]

19. "never saw a black person until they were in school"

Similar here in the UK - just one of those things I guess. The background to that must be associated with the fact that immigration wasn't financially assisted until the mid fifties onwards. Prior to that I don't think that folk from the Caribbean could afford the passage by ship.

I've been racking my brains to recall the first black guy I came across. Think it was at the local dance hall 1960. All I can remember is being impressed at how well he danced. Nothing's changed much - they are still the best dancers.

[baldguy]

18. "Political correctness" is RW propaganda.

What was political about this situation? Nothing. The things that the RW call "Politically correct" (as if it's an insult) are for the most part simply people being polite and respectful to one another. Why RWers would wish to be insulting & disrespectful to people who bear them no ill will and wish them no harm is incomprehensible to me.

You were embarrassed, not because the lady would think you're in the KKK, but because to point out a person's skin pigmentation in that manner is inappropriate and insulting - if it's done by an adult.

[annabanana]

21. It comes under the category of "personal remarks" that

children must be taught not to make about strangers (or relatives, for that matter). It's a matter of manners, which smooth the way of personal dicsourse.

[AspenRose]

25. I agree

It's not racism....

I had a friend who also has biracial kids. She taught them at an early age, if they were trying to point a child out for some reason, to use something like the color of their clothing, rather than the color of their skin.

e.g. "the girl with the yellow dress needs help" instead of "the black girl over there needs help"

children are innocent and will be naturally curious.....but I agree with the 'calling things out' and 'not sharing your curiosity with the world' remarks made here.

I actually heard about a white child saying about a black woman with 'natural' hair on the metro (unprocessed afro) to her mother, "mommy, that woman needs her hair straightened."

(!) Now THAT was totally inappropriate.....

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

22. I would say no.

Just point out to her that it's not right to point out people's skin color and that it doesn't matter what their skin color is.

For example, I have short hair (it's usually cut pretty buzzed on the sides & back and spikey in the front), tattoos and piercings. I have gotten really nasty remarks from adults. Those people are assholes. Meanwhile, I've had more than one kid around 3 years old remark to their parent, "look mom, that boy has pictures on his arms" and have the parent get really embarrassed, apologize and point out to the kid that I'm a girl and the pictures are called tattoos. That doesn't bother me at all. That's just a kid being a kid and figuring out the world.

So basically, don't worry about it too much.

[Evoman]

29. People really are assholes.

What gives someone the right to criticize people they don't know. We tell children its rude, but supposedly "thinking" adults do the same shit. Back when I used to be real thin (I work out now, so I'm not) people I did not know would constantly tell me to "get something to eat" or tell me I would blow away in the wind. Fuckers.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

30. Yeah, I always think it's funny when people post about how rude

people with body mods are, then proceed to go on about how their stupid, dirty, etc. They seem to have a major disconnect going on in realizing that probably if they feel modded people are that low, then those with body mods are probably just reacting in kind. I've almost always had jobs dealing with customers. People who treat the staff like crap, generally recieve less help than those that are nice to us. It's a natural human response.

[boolean]

37. It's not right to point out people's skin color?

Why not? I think that's more of a racist thought than anything else.

We should be celebrating our differences, not hiding from them.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

40. It's wrong in terms of "hey look it's a brown person."

Not from kids because they don't know any better, but do you honestly think that's acceptable adult behavior?

[Karenina]

23. There are 2 issues here, HWNN

The first is "calling others out" for differences. There is no malice coming from a toddler; it's merely a request to have them explained which gives one the opportunity to teach politeness in dealing with other human beings. Having been the first exposure HUNDREDS of white children had to BROWN skin so often in my life, may I share with you how sweet, innocent and FUNNY children are? THEY DON'T CARE. They notice, want an explanation, but assign NO VALUE to such nonsense as colouration or disposition. What they want to know is, "Are you mine, too?"

May I tell you a story to illustrate the second issue?

My little Jan, who recognized my voice when he was born (from months of talking to him through his mom's belly), met the African father of a friend at kindergarten. This man had perfect, smooth skin that was so dark it had a bluish tinge. Jan was absolutely fascinated with its hue. His mom took that opportunity to point out how many different skin colours there are and asked him who else he knew with brown skin. He thought awhile and produced his list. She prompted him... "Anyone else?" He pondered awhile, came up with "yellow" and "olive" and decided that was it. She asked, "What about Karenina?" "OH, YEAH!!! Karenina IS brown, too!!! I never even thought of that!"

Your grandchild's observation was neutral and natural. What did she learn from you in this situation when you look back on it? I ask that realizing it was complicated for you and to communicate that it was not complicated for your wonderful baby.

[Tulum_Moon]

24. All children do it.

esp when they are learning thier colors some of mine are still very young and will say so and so, you know he is brown or white. They learn about race when they start school.

[Karenina]

34. My point is

to deal with it in such a way that the child receives no VALUE JUDGEMENT about skin colour. Babies are MEGLOMANIACS. ALL they want to know is: "Are YOU there to ensure my survival? Are YOU MINE???" They give a flying rat's ass about your wheelchair, crutches, weight, mental challenges, skin colour, number of toes or brand of hair dye.

[Evoman]

27. People and objects are two different things entirely.

First, let me be clear. There was no racism here. None. At all. The political correctness thing is not the issue.

However, IMO you should have used this experience to teach your grandaughter not to point at people. Pointing at a tree, a house, or even a car is one thing...but pointing at a person, and making a comment, is considered rude in our society. Naturally, your grandaughter is too young to understand that, but what a perfect time to teach her. Even pointing at an object on a person and commenting (provided the person is stranger or not well known) is not polite. Now, most adults will be understanding...no doubt the lady you passed noticed how young your grandaughter is, and your embarrased look, and understood the situation completely. But IMO, curbing this type of pointing, especially at strangers, is probably a good idea.

[Cleita]

28. Well, for what it's worth, when I was about that age my

mother, a hispanic, used to take me to an African American pediatrician when we were living stateside because he spoke Spanish and she could communicate my symptons to him better than she could in English to a doctor who didn't speak Spanish. Well as you can imagine the waiting room was full of little African American kids.

From what my mother told me I was fascinated with their hair and wouldn't stop going over to touch their heads and feel their hair. Fortunately, whatever I said was in Spanish so I even if I had said anything insulting they wouldn't have understood but I don't think I did. I was just curious.

I ony know this because mother told me. She told me she was mortified and tried to make me stop but the mothers just told her to leave me alone. It wasn't long before we little kids settled down on the floor playing with each other. I think everyone understands. It was the same when I lived in south America and the little indigenous native kids always wanted to touch the hair of the blond kid. It was something different that they recognized was different and they wanted to explore it, but it's hardly racist.

[Karenina]

39. You said it all, Cleita

It's about exploring differences when children are allowed to do so without having anyone's "trips" laid on them they simply do so and go on to the next bright, shiny object.

I grew up in "physicians' housing" on the grounds of a state institution. We kids were a U.N. tribe and got yelled at in whatever language whoever's mom spoke as she screeched at us whenever we crossed the line.

"I don't understand" was NEVER a valid excuse for not obeying IMMEDIATELY!!! :rofl:

[misternormal]

31. She's 3... She's an innocent soul... talk to her about it and move on. nt

[readmoreoften]

32. You may want to tell her not to point and talk about people like objects..

but instead talk TO people. It is perfectly acceptable for a little girl to walk up to another and say, "I'm learning my colors. I'm a peach-colored person and you're a brown colored person. You have black eyes. I have brown eyes."

It's the objectification that kids do, talking about people as if they are objects and not "to" people, that kids should be broken out of.

[Odin2005]

33. I don't get how a 3 year old noting that people look different is racist.

If she was scared of the other girl because of her skin color THEN I would be concerned

[boolean]

36. Newsflash!

People have different skin colors.

Can we please stop pretending otherwise?

It isn't impolite to point out that I'm white and you're black, no matter how old we are. It's the truth. Stop this madness.

[Odin2005]

42. Exactly.

[PresidentWar]

41. Kids are innocent. No need to tar them with adult silliness yet.

Just go with it, and don't make too big a thing from it. They'll pick up on the important things you want to teach them soon enough.

[TheFriedPiper]

43. Aren't we ALL really just different shades of brown?

[InkAddict]

44. With a chuckle

on parents and children's opportunities to teach, I nostalgically recall two incidents/experiences in my life. On visiting the art museum, my young brother saw a "David" and with pointed finger and a loud voice declared that the statue had, horrors, a penis!

While my kids were in high school band, we took Gramps along to an outdoor concert. We lived at the time in an ethnically diverse school district, but it didn't stop Grandpa to quickly and too loudly point out one of the children in the audience that was "such a cute monkey."

Oh the embarrassment coming out of the mouths of the innocent and not so innocent!

It's too bad that my mom was much too religiously pure to further a discussion about genitals in public with a 3-year-old male child, and, right or wrong, it certainly didn't stop us from having a quiet discussion in the moment with Gramps about how his impolite comment could have been construed within the earshot of our community. Is there a smilie for a bittersweet nostalgic remembrance of the "innocent but truthful faux pas of life?