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Can we get out of Iraq and call it a win? I say yes.

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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 06:48 AM
Original message
Can we get out of Iraq and call it a win? I say yes.
I think there is a strategy that can get us out and still save some of our dignity. We need to go back in time and undo the real mistake that has led, in part, to todays mess. We need to redraw the boarders to fit the long established ethnic cultures. The great wisdom of the empire building days of the past was to divide these groups and keep them fighting with themselves while we exploited their nature resources. This would be very difficult to do throughout the Middle East but it might be possible to quiet Iraq by separating the warring parties. Iraq must be split into three sections and the responsibility for policing each area would immediately go to the majority. Time would need to be given for people to get to the area that matches their ideology or they can stay and take their chances as a minority, this is already happening some are even fleeing to other countries. It would be good to set up some sort of international court to arbitrate boarder disputes and help people with safe travel to a safe haven. Iran and Turkey would not be happy to give up ethnic territory nor are Israel, Syria, Jordan happy about it but this is the only way to peace that I can see. New countries need to be formed and Iraq needs to die. The UN needs to step in take over. As long as the US is controlling the resources and the government the situation can not improve. Local tribal leaders should be officially put in charge and money directed through them to begin rebuilding. If we are not in discussions with the locals, how can we possibly bring stability to the area. We can not continue down the road of confrontation and civil war. A dramatic shift in our handling of this issue is called for.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Was a good article in the Nation.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can see the reasons for splitting them up
but the real reason for all the strife is the occupation and everything else the US has done.
We should just get out and let the Iraq's decide what to do with their country.
There is no Win for us anywhere to be found. A "win" according to the neocons would be to stomp out all that dissent.

To hell with the neocons and there endless war.
:dem:
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree this must be done as an international force.
We need to take a step back and let others help. Unfortunately this administration has compounded the problem by pissing all our friends in the world off.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Problem: The oil is not evenly distributed under the various
factions lands. The Kurds get some, the Shi'ia get some, the Sunnis - not so much.
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. yes that is a big problem that would need to be resolved
I don't have enough information on oil well locations to speak to your point.
All I know is if the world was not addicted to oil it would be less of a problem. If we had stuck with Pres. Carter and ended oil dependency it wouldn't be an issue at all. Hell we would probably be ignoring their plight just like we refuse to look at Africa and its many problems today.
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Homer Wells Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hell! Look what Nixon did!?
Pulled us out of Viet Nam and called it Peace With Honor.
If he could do it over there, seems we can just bring em home NOW and say "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED..AGAIN!!!

:smoke:
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. We could do it like Nixon but what I'm talking about is to leave
Edited on Sun Sep-03-06 12:08 PM by ktlyon
with some real honor. I hate the expression in reference to Iraq, you broke you bought it, but I still think we can do a lot to mend it some what. We will never be honorable in this whole thing but some could be gleaned from stabilizing the results of our huge blunder.

As long as we let the civil war continue and keep a propped government in the "Green Zone" we are doomed to fail and we will have to airlift out like Nixon did. But if someone (probably not the US, we have zero credibility) started working with the people really in charge of what is happening on the ground, got them resources to rebuild with and provide jobs for the people we can get things calmed down.

The first thing that needs to be done is to separate the fighting sects and give each control over their own world. Tell them if they cross this line and attack those other people they will be punished severely. Make the person in charge pay with life if necessary. Just like I would do with two fighting children, I would seen them for separate timeouts.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I doubt Bush will change course significantly as long as he's president
And he won't leave office until the beginning of 2009 when the new president is sworn in.
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I am a solution minded person and I am looking to solve this one
Hopefully Bush will leave before his term ends.
Hopefully enough pressure can be put forth to start some people talking and thinking about alternatives to "stay the course".
Hopefully Dems will step forward with this solution, or another that will show the world that some of us want to resolve the matter.

If we don't talk about alternatives how will we fix it? What would you suggest? Do you think the Iraq government we created can survive? Will we airlift out and declare victory as all hell breaks loose?
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Lots of hope, little in the form of concrete steps to get there.
Edited on Sun Sep-03-06 12:32 PM by Selatius
In short, no solution will be effective without first removing Bush from power. I'm not saying this talk is counter-productive, but it will be relegated to theory and mental masturbation without dealing with Bush. It is in this area that I see lots of weakness. We talk about what can be done, but nobody wants to talk about Bush in the way. It's always, "If I were in charge..." The fact is nobody is in charge except Bush et al.

My suggestion is to get Bush out before anything else; impeachment. Do that first, then we can talk about what can be done.
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ktlyon Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. as I don't have any real specific ground information, I can't be
more specific sorry.
but you make a good point, let's get rid of Bush
I believe the only way to do that is to return Dems to the majority in Congress and to do that we must attack this administration with concrete solution that the Dems would implement when returned to power. Iraq, I would think, was the biggest and most vulnerable point on which to attack but we must attack with ideas and plans the American people can rally around. We must propose concrete solution and to get concrete solution we need to have this discussion, I think. Sorry no one seems to agrees. But stabilizing the ME would good for the world in my opinion.
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