Are we really as objectively right as it feels???

[Bleacher Creature]

I feel like I spend my life in a constant state of frustration due to the fact that we even have to engage in a public debate with the people who have taken over the Republican Party. They are wrong on just about every point, and worse -- resorting to outright lies. From the lies about the war, to Abramoff, illegal wiretaps, to convincing people to vote against their own best interests by scaring them into believing that two guys kissing is the end of the world.

Does anyone else know what I am talking about -- and doing a bad job describing. The entire 5 year period of the Bush Administration is not about a difference of opinion. These people are objectively wrong, dishonest, and deceitful. It's just so damn frustrating to see everything classified as being two points of view.

Enough with my rant.

[darkism]

1. Their views have NO legitimacy.

Hatred, intolerance, fear and corruption are not legitimate. The so-called "liberal" media tries as hard as they can to justify right-wing viewpoints to appear "balanced," when in fact there is no justification for their views.

They are absolutely and without a doubt wrong, dishonest and deceitful, any way you slice it.

[Zenlitened]

2. "everything classified as being two points of view"

I think you're exactly right. It's been one of the worst shortfalls of what we used to call Journalism in this country.

Instead of reporters digging for facts and providing context, they just get a statement from one side and a statement from the other and present them as somehow equivalent -- even if one side is saying "the moon is made of green cheese."

We see the same sort of laziness in the way people think now. If they even bother to think at all -- a lot of people have just about given up on getting something resembling a fact from any source anymore.

:(

[Misskittycat]

3. We are right; we are telling the truth.

I fully understand your rant. I've felt the same way, and it's a constant source of frustration for me. Yes, there is such a thing as reasoning and logic. There is such a thing as critical thinking. There is such a thing as mountains of evidence.

As a lawyer, I'm trained to evaluate evidence and present reasoned arguments. What is happening is so completely out of the realm of my training and out of the realm of my upbringing as a decent, fair person that it makes my head explode on a regular basis.

Unfortunately, the only thing truly exploding is my body. Quite literally, since the day after the Presidential election 2004, I have been stuffing my face with cookies, doughnuts, and chocolate in any shape or form. I've gained 30 pounds. I really have to find a different way to channel my frustration.

[Burning Water]

4. See

my sig.

We will always have this fight. Forever. When you cease to fight for what you believe, for your freedom and liberty, the forces of evil will move in.

That's always been the way it has been, and always will be. So take a deep breath and get back in there.

[TheFarseer]

5. I know what you are saying

it is amazing. Actually, I don't think "we" are right about everything, only 90-some % of things. And DLCers are lower than that. But with the big picture, sure democrats are better for America at this point and it's not even a close contest. That's what you get when one side is not working for the American people and one side is. You're going to get one side that is right an overwhelming percentage of the time. I think any objective analysis would bear that our.

[JAbuchan08]

6. Exactly. I find I often have as many policy disagreements with Dems

and progressives as I do with Republicans and conservatives. The difference is GOP lies.

[lady lib]

7. They ARE wrong, dishonest, and deceitful.

They aren't just "of a different opinion." They are waging war with anyone who disagrees with their manufactured reality. WAR. Karl Rove and the rest of the Administration are the colonels and all the media whores are under their command. They're vigilant, they're relentless, and they have no moral compunction about what they're doing to the fabric of our society. Our side has been very late in figuring this out, and we have done an insufficient job of responding. Why don't we have a cable news station that can provide rapid response to all of their false, hateful, and inflammatory statements?

We can be right, but it doesn't matter if we can't be heard.

[Beam Me Up]

8. Good rant and YES, we are as right as it feels--even more so.

That is to say, some things are debatable or a matter of opinion and some things are not. One can debate whether or not the Bush administration knew that Iraq did not have WMD, for example, but the fact that he did NOT and did NOT pose an "immanent threat" to the United States, is a fact beyond debate. One can debate whether the Bush administration has done all it could do to capture Osama bin Laden but one can not debate the fact that Osama bin Laden (if he exists at all) is still at large.

I think the problem you are pointing to is one of SOCIAL SELF IDENTITY. It works like this: Your understanding of who you are in the world is, to a large extent, influenced by how you see ourself being perceived by others. If you identify with a minority, for example, much of how you will see yourself and understand yourself is influenced by the representations of your minority that are displayed in the media (TV, film, books, magazines, etc.). As Democrats, Liberals, Progressives--whatever identification we hold--our sense of self is influenced by the images of people calling themselves "Democrats, Liberals, Progressives..." that get reflected back to us. The society holds up a mirror, as it were, in which we see ourselves. Since the media, for the most part, does not give an accurate, but rather a distorted, reflection, we begin to question our sense of self and self-identity.

Not sure what I'm saying is making sense--but the point is our sense of what is right and good is under attack by people who not only do not share our values, are actually OPPOSED to our values and wish to undermine and defeat them.

Hold tight to what you yourself know to be true.

[cali]

9. I don't believe in "Objective"

The closest we can come to that is what I call the collective subjective. Having said that, I do believe our side is mostly right; obviously some things are not merely about a difference of opinion. The NSA wiretapping comes to mind as an obvious example.

[undeterred]

10. The truth does not lie somewhere in the middle

as much as we have been trained to believe that. There are facts, and whoever looks at all of the facts and incorporates them into a meaningful interpretation gets closest to the truth. We take in all the data, while the Right chooses very carefully what to leave in and what to leave out. We are self-critical but they are not. It makes us look weak, but its really a strength.

[OneBlueSky]

11. something is either true or it isn't . . . it's not a matter of . . .

interpretation . . . it is true, for example, that the US invasion and occupation of Iraq was planned before Bush even took office and was based entirely on deliberate lies -- which, in fact, changed from week to week . . . that's the objective truth, and nothing they can say will make it anything but . . .

[lady lib]

12. Kick.

[countingbluecars]

13. I know what you mean.

And yes, we are right. It was never cleared to me than on Monday as I sat in the audience listening to Al Gore. Everything he said was the truth. We have been right all along.