Tell Me Why "Islamo-Fascism" Is An Idiotic Term in 10 Words or Less.

[David Zephyr]

I just can't stand it anymore.

I know and you know what fascism is. We understand the historical context of that word, but the right wing is really in full throttle intentionally co-opting a term that applies to them and their corporatism. And they are thereby diluting the word that frames them perfectly.

The right wing is clever with wording. And we are losing the war of words.

Bush's illegal, Civil War in Iraq is still either the "War in Iraq" or "The War on Terror".

Constitutional civil rights for gay and lesbian Americans have become "special rights".

The list goes on and on: "cut and run", "pre-9/11 mentality", "the soft bigotry of low expectations", "compassionate conservatism". They are killing us with words.

What happened to the erudite Left? Why aren't we framing the issues with language anymore.

Even Fox News is willing to experiment, at the risk of looking idiotic, with trying out phrases such as the loopy "homicide bomber". Give them credit for trying.

So rather than pontificate here, can I ask you, my fellow DU'ers, to help this old Leftie out and list your most succinct and lucid comeback to anyone using the ridiculous term "islamo-fascism? Can we even do it? Something the average Joe will understand? I wonder.

Can anyone tell me why "islamo-fascism" is an idiotic term in 10 words or less? And have some fun while you are at it.

[C_U_L8R]

1. errrr... because Bush said it

doesn't get any more idiotic than that

[magellan]

2. Beat me to it! (nt)

[tridim]

3. Besides the obvious reasons,

Where does the 'o' come from in "Islamo"?

Shouldn't it be Islamic-fascism? Seems that in addition to being complete idiots, they don't even know how to make up new words. I guess it kind of makes sense since they make up the rules as they go anyway.

[David Zephyr]

7. Good one!

Where does the 'o' come from in "Islamo"? :thumbsup:

By the way, I see that even Democrats have taken now to using this stupid term. Thanks for constructive input.

[POAS]

19. It fits in with Rush's "Hezbo types"

[David Zephyr]

28. Actually, you are right.

It appeals to their low nature:

IslamO...HezbO (as you point out)...and, of course...lezbO. All divisive and ugly terms.

It does "fit in", POAS.

[blm]

4. Republicans are corporatists. Fascism is corporatism. Islamo-corporatists?

.

[David Zephyr]

8. Excellent, blm!

"Islamo-corporatists?" No wonder I love you! :thumbsup:

No wonder the Saudi "Royals" were so quick to speak out against the term of "islamo-fascists". They would be the model for the term, wouldn't they?

[POAS]

17. well ya gotta admit they make big bucks 4 Halliburton

[AntiFascist]

22. Until they make the connection with wealthy Arab royals....

who own much of corporate America (including much of the media) and are in bed with much of the administration, then the point of "Islamic" fascism is a non-issue. On the other hand, if American leaders ever do decide to attack Saudi Arabia I'm sure it will be for the purpose of fighting any uprising against the Saudi Royals.

[blm]

63. Your sharpness on this is definitely appreciated by me.

.

[AntiFascist]

67. Thanks blm, people should also be aware of these threads...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2805807

which analyze the Bush family and industrialist connections supporting Hitler. I know that we are often warned not to compare people to Hitler or call them Nazis, but these historical connections are extremely important to study, and they demonstrate that powerful American interests have historically played an important role in propping up fascist regimes which later became our enemies.

:hi:

[sandnsea]

5. Hitler wasn't a Christo-fascist

He was just plain nuts. Same with the current group of extremists. There's no reason to attach religion to their violence, it's unnecessarily inflammatory and actually gives them a certain legitimacy that we need to take away from them.

[David Zephyr]

9. Great point! If Osama is islamo-fascist, then Hitler was Christo-fascist

:thumbsup:

[tocqueville]

25. Bush is a christo-facist, but Hitler wasn't

because both terms are appliable to the neocon ideology. They are fascists in the political sense of the term and the religious Christian propaganda is a very active part of the theme and motivation.

For Hitler and Nazism (as for Mussolini) religion wasn't important, it was nothing more than sometimes a useful tool.

Islamists are primarily islamists. Their authoritharian dream state wouldn't be a fascist stae in the sense we give today to fascism. It would be a theocracy, which is completely different.

[PATRICK]

37. I think for the Nazis

it started with the great social disillusionment after the war and the Kaiser jumping ship to escape his own people. All the institutions that had let them down or whom the soldiers protected became mere hate objects and an irrational fantasy was whipped up to become the soldier's religion, kingdom and race. Many besides Hitler were into this mad reaction. Socialists who been against the war were especially hated and blamed as were Jews, or any group that did not suffer as much as the defeated veterans and had opposed the war. Some kept to the fantasy but mostly they ended up with the hate, because even long after the pagan rites become laughable and fantasy power settles down into real world possession, the destruction of internal enemies remains the same and ever more affirmative of their old dreams and their growing reality. In Hitler's inner circle few took the neo-paganism seriously(Himmler). Most were pragmatic atheists- as I suspect Bush is when not overcome by his own lies and absolutist power. They scornfully gave the fantasies to the faces to drive out all other value systems.

German fascism was born in the trauma, despair, disillusion and rage of WWI but our spoiled chickenhawk neocons seem to be some sort of fan club of Classic Monsters of History and seem to feel they have missed out on the rush on gets from driving the world to slaughter and burned out empires.

Oops! Ten words or less. Sloppy attempt to make Islam hyphenated with a context-less slur.

[David Zephyr]

39. Try again, Patrick.

If you haven't read Trotsky's essay on the rise of Hitler which he wrote years in advance of the jerk's zenith, I can't recommend it enough.

I enjoyed reading your post, but give it to me in less than ten words. :)

[PATRICK]

45. Did you miss the edit?

Attempt to hyphenate Islam with projection slur backfires.

Got it down to 8.

[tocqueville]

51. agrees, see my post below nr 30. nt

[Vincardog]

6. Islam is religion. FAscist is Marriage of Government and Corporate power

Theocracy's are not equal to Big Government central control Corporatist.

[David Zephyr]

14. Hmmm. So "islamo-fascism" would really be a subset of "theo-fascism".

Theo-fascism: that would, er....apply to the Vatican and the Christian Coalition, then wouldn't it?

[Vincardog]

24. Religion is about controlling beliefs, Government is about controlling

countries. "islamo-fascism" is a nonsense word made up by the Idiot in charge. If it made any sense it would be "Islamic-"

But with that aside do we want to have a RELIGIOUS WAR?

Weren't the crusades disaster enough?

IF GWB wants to have a war against ISLAM he can put on his uniform and fight it himself.

[Duke Newcombe]

53. Isn't it possible...

...to control a country with/by religious belief (a la Afghanistan and the Taliban, like Islamists are attempting to do in the Sudan), etc? The Clerical style of fascism that Al Qaeda, Hizballah, and their jihadist supporter fulfills nearly all of the elements of classical fascism, save corporatism (although that is changing), and having a nation-state status.

Duke

[AntiFascist]

56. Is it clear what kind of social class structure evolves in such a society?

Fascism is always opposed to socialism and communism, favoring those who maintain control of the wealth. I don't see where this is clear based on religion alone, in fact I've read on certain right-wing websites fears of communism taking root in an Islamic Fundamentalist uprising. I dislike Fundamentalism as much as anyone, but I wouldn't always classify an authoritarian, even terroristic, society as necessarilly fascist.

[Vincardog]

59. corporatism is the defining element of FASCISM. See Corporate America

The reason the the NeoConvict wing of the Greedy Oil Party is riling against FASCISM is because they are FASCISTS

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. It's really very simple.

new enemy = ethnic stereotype prefix + hated old enemy suffix.

For example:

"islamofascist"

"femi-nazi"

"sand ni****"

Try it, it's fun and easy:

"muslimocommunist"

"homoyankee"

"liberowobblie."

"abortopaptist."

[David Zephyr]

16. Well, there's a formula now!

Move over Einstein, Bornaginhooligan has the formula! :thumbsup:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Did it in ten words, too.

[David Zephyr]

40. You did. And I like the formula, too!

:)

[Ganja Ninja]

60. Let me try.

Christofascist

Republiklan

Conservabilly

[leftofthedial]

11. oxymoron

repukes made it up; therefore, it is a lie.

[dansolo]

12. Just look at Moussolini's definition of fascism

Facism is really corporatism, which has absolutely nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism.

[malaise]

32. that fugging simple n/t

[johnaries]

13. Because fascism was a Christian movement. nt

[David Zephyr]

18. In truth, you are correct: Fascism was exclusively Christian, wasn't it?

:thumbsup:

[tocqueville]

30. Fascism is mostly secular, with Christian AND Pagan influences

and a lot of religious persons both Catholics and Protestants were persecuted by both Hitler and Mussolini. It is true that some fascists movements have used catholicism (clerical fascism) but they are not representative for fascism as a whole. This is called clerical fascism, and can include even buddhists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_fascism

Fascistic mythology takes it sources in nationalism and even in pagan myths

Hitler and other Nazi leaders clearly made use of both Christian and Pagan symbolism and emotion in propagandizing the Germanic public, and it remains a matter of controversy whether Hitler believed himself a Christian, a heathen, or something else entirely. Some historians have typified Hitler as a neo-Pagan, whereas other writers have referred to Nazism's occasional outward use of Christian doctrine, regardless of what its inner-party mythology may have been. Many Nazi leaders subscribed either to a mixture of modern (pseudo-)scientific theories, as Hitler himself did, or to mysticism and occultism, which was especially strong in the SS. Central to both groupings was the belief in German racial superiority. The existence of a Ministry of Church Affairs, instituted in 1935 and headed by Hanns Kerrl, was hardly recognized by ideologists such as Alfred Rosenberg or by other political decision-makers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_religion

[WildEyedLiberal]

65. Very true and many European neo-fascists today are neo-pagan of some sort

Just as a really off-the-wall example, Varg Vikernes, the Norwegian black metaller who killed fellow black metal singer Euronymous, was deeply involved in the Scanadanavian black metal scene, which emphasized a violent anti-Christian form of neo-Nordic paganism. In the years since the murder Vikernes has become something of an underground leader of a neo-fascist movement, which is unsurprising, given the similarities between fascist nationalism and his warped brand of neo-pagan beliefs. Both emphasize an obsession with racial/cultural heritage and the belief that the Nordic/Aryan/Viking race is superior to all, and both are intensely violent and deal with bringing "battle" to the "enemies" of your "heritage." (Many black metallers in Norway, including Vikernes were jailed in the early 90s for church burnings, beatings, and murders.)

[many a good man]

15. Because its a word invented by "Republico-Fascists"

Simple explanation:

Communism is when the government owns all of business.

Fascism is when business owns all of government.

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. We are currently under the rule of Islamo-fascism

The marriage of Islam, capitalism and our government already occurred years ago when the Bush crime family agreed to be supported, lock stock and barrel by their Saudi brethren.

The Islamic Sheiks, who rake in billions of personal dollars, are in charge of the oil companies that are "donating" petro-dollars to the GOP in return for an open spigot in Iraq and continuing support of the military machine in the middle east.

George W. Bush is the face of Islamo-Fascism.






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[David Zephyr]

23. LOL! I think you may have hit a raw nerve.

Cronus Protagonist, I thank you. :thumbsup:

[Cronus Protagonist]

26. You are welcome :) n/t

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[EFerrari]

27. Because jihad is voluntary, not coerced.

[EFerrari]

31. And jihadis are more like the Minutemen than like Nazis.

:evilgrin:

I can't do anything in less than ten.

[David Zephyr]

41. I bet you can.

A little keyboard viagra and...

[KamaAina]

29. It portrays this as a struggle against Islam, not extremism.

Ten on the nose!

[ktlyon]

33. ok

Islamo is not a word

If they were to create a descriptive noun to label people it would be Muslim-fascist, Islam is the verb form. (hyphen makes it a noun)( "ic" goes on verbs not nouns)

Muslims are fighting corporatism not living it.

It is an attempt to confuse the meaning and get in a preemptive strike before people start whispering the f word about about them.

[David Zephyr]

44. All good responses. I will boil these all down. I like...

this one: "Muslims are fighting corporatism not living it."

You also picked up on the "o" which Tridim pointed out in post #3. And isn't ironic that here is a tortured verbal phrase that Bush can easily pronounce. Hmmmm.

[Jed Dilligan]

34. Less than ten words:

Look... who's... using... it.

[shraby]

35. Because there is no such word as Islamo

[Justice Is Comin]

36. It's urine face attempting Scrabble.

[David Zephyr]

46. LOL!

:rofl:

[Toots]

38. It is a name to generate hatred

GOP is very good at generating hatred. In fact they thrive on it. Limbaugh with his Femi-Nazis etc. They need hateful names or they dump so much scorn on a name and make it hateful as they have done to Liberal. They are name-callers no more no less. They live by divide and conquer...Which is totally against what the whole concept of America is. "United we stand, divided we fall" What is so amazing to me is how few Americans can make the connection. :shrug: It really doesn't take rocket science...

[PresidentWar]

42. Fascism was never even mentioned in the Qur'an.

There. Eight words. Now, where's my prize?

[Patsy Stone]

43. Because there's nothing fascist about it.

It's a misnomer meant to confuse and scare simple folks with a big word based on a concept most of them never got to before dropping out of high school.

Kinda like Alanis calling rain on your wedding day "ironic". It's inconvenient, not ironic. But this is much, much more destructive.

[Sapere aude]

47. There is no such thing and it is hate speech.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Because Digby said so. Duh.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Because only idiots would give credence to the term.

[LostInAnomie]

50. Witless slogans; prove nothing, win nothing, and make us look foolish.

Eleven words, but it's true.

[Odin2005]

52. It uses Fascism as a term of abusre.

[mackdaddy]

54. it is the PETROFacist we should really fear!! n/t

[slaveplanet]

55. how about 10 pics ?

Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini reviews Moslem Waffen-SS troops in Bosnia, as shown on a Nazi magazine cover, 1944






http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/


the present:




and a bonus:

[cap]

57. are we really fighting WWIII...

why couldnt you guys have kept it down to a police action against a band of criminals called Al-Qaeda?

[rasputin1952]

58. It is the act of a desperate administration...there's 8 words that sum

it up.

Most people have no idea what fascism really is.

FWIW, in the Senate Chamber, there are fasces, one on either side of the flag that hangs there. The symbol of Ancient Rome, Mussolini's Italy...and a part of our culture as well.

Most Americans view fascism as Mussolini's attempt at building an empire and Hitler's Nazi Germany...but the parallels between Homeland Security and the Gestapo are somewhat striking. The Gestapo could never have had the power they did w/o the input from civilian sources...a LOT of input from people who thought they were being 'patriotic'.

[Darkhawk32]

61. I never knew terrorists had vast corporate ties!! n/t

[newportdadde]

62. "Radical Muslim!" is my fav.

[FUGW]

64. Because Christo Fascists came up with it.

[sofa king]

66. Only Jesu-fascists use that term.