How do you tell your child you don't want him/her to join the Army?

[Philosoraptor]

Do you plead on your knees? Do you weep? Do you implore dramatically and hysterically?

Or do you encourage your son or daughter and tell them how proud you are of them, but they have picked the wrong time to join?

I've done it, twice with my two sons, who both considered joining. My daughter never did, so it was the two sons who got my fatherly lecture. Son number one was sucked into the idea during daddybush's first ME war in Iraq, he hated Saddam and bought into all the rhetoric of the time, and the jingoism and nationalism, and I told him I was proud of him for wanting to serve his nation.

Then for an hour I lectured him about george herbert walker bush and his neo con plans for conquering the globe and that if he died in vain in that maniac's war, I'd never forgive myself to my dying day for not trying to talk you out of it in a fatherly way.

How would you tackle this? You may have to, your son who is now four may someday want to go and fight for our Nation in the near future, and if bush and cheney have anything to do with it, it will still be going on by then.

What would you say to your proud and patriotic son or daughter about to lay it all on the line for the bush vampire family?

[Turbineguy]

1. How do Republicans do it?

[Sailor for Warner]

2. Not all of us joined for him

In fact I would say that a sizable majority did not join because of President Bush.

[WinkyDink]

8. Their kids don't present the problem.

[pooja]

3. We may not have that choice in the future.. as it is they are recalling

now... so, I'm not sure that it won't be a mandatory thing.

[The2ndWheel]

4. Don't become an agent for the imperial state?

I don't have any kids, but beyond that, it's your life.

[Philosoraptor]

5. maybe only a parent can relate

Maybe just an old hippy parent like me. but i see your point. there's something about looking into your kid's eyes and imagining his future.

[Sailor for Warner]

9. Yes because I am proud to serve

"under the eagle" in the 10th Legion of the United States of America, because thats what we all are dupes and bushbots right?

[Philosoraptor]

13. Where did I insult you?

I got your point and you got mine, I guess.

[Sailor for Warner]

15. I was respondingto NoMoreMyths, raptor

sorry for the confusion.

[Philosoraptor]

19. i'm sorry too for being so cranky this morning

I respect you none the less, which usually goes without saying, but I'm saying it anyway.

[WinkyDink]

16. I say, as the proud daughter of a WWII Silver/Bronze Stars Veteran;

as the recipient of a personal Thank-You letter from former Marine Commandant P.F.X. Kelly; as the grateful donor to Paralyzed Veterans of Eastern Pennsylvania---that
to enlist NOW? Is utter folly.
And a damning indictment of this country's total disrespect for the struggling middle-class, that they need the military and its inherent dangers in order for their children to attain higher education and other come-with-a-price "benefits".

Dulce et decorum est.

[The2ndWheel]

21. No, agents of the imperial state

I never said dupes or bushbots. To become such an agent, you have to sit down and think about it. Life or death choice there. Sometimes strictly killing and dying, but also economic in some cases. I would never call someone a dupe for going into the military. Agents of an imperial state, yes. A dupe or bushbot? No, too important of a decision.

[NNN0LHI]

6. I would start out with...

..."Son, you know that inheritance you were planning on spending when your mother and I pass away? Well we are thinking about just leaving your share to the local dog pound."

That should be the end of Sonny wanting to play GI Joe.

Don

[knowbody0]

7. It's hard to argue with facts

I use visuals to begin de-programing them---symbolman etc., then I listen to them. follow up with truths and facts that cut through the endless propaganda.

My daughter did her senior project on the truth about the Iraq war. Amazing reaction from students and faculty. One teacher actually accused her of getting pictures from "another" war.

The depleted uranium factoids left her Vietnam vet teacher in tears.

Whatever it takes.

[ima_sinnic]

10. same way I was talked out of drugs: take him for a visit to a

VA hospital, or even take a walk around the "skid row" section of any city and check out how many are veterans. Give him realistic stats on mental illness among vets (esp. Iraq War vets), and on serious injuries (and of course death), and the fact that, with this "administration," what little benefits there are for vets are being slashed to the bone.

I was given a wake-up call about drugs ca. 1967 when a concerned friend made me really look at the messed-up people drugged out on the streets of the Lower East Side of NYC.

on edit: not to promote fear of injury/death, but the realistic fact that there is ZERO regard or support for vets with this bunch. They don't even honor the returning dead ones.

[Bigmack]

11. My son knew of my...

strong feelings. I never talked with him about Vietnam, but he knew I was in VVAW, and strongly anti-war.

I told him that if he ever wanted to go, he should work very hard to control those feelings.

I told him that the military wouldn't take him because he was missing his right big toe. He said he had a right big toe. I told him he wouldn't have one if he tried to enlist. I'd shoot it off in his sleep.

Luckily, I didn't face that problem.

[bluedeminredstate]

22. The Owen Meaney method!

I've spoken of it to my son as well.
Accidents will happen...

[librechik]

12. start early--don't wait til the recruiter is at the door

I tell my gentle 10 and 13 yr old grankids that armies are only about killing and they lie to you to lure you into jouining.Sometimes they ask you to kill little kids and puppies.,

I remind them everytime I see them how bad the army is hurting in Iraq. No water,IEDs everywhere. 118 degrees.

Then they got a psycho stepmother just out of the army and very strict with them. I don't have to do much more to convince them.

[Sailor for Warner]

18. I like killing puppies

their life force gives me strength.

[librechik]

38. I hope you run out and enlist right away

they could use you in Bagdad

just don't move in next door to me--are you even human?

[MUSTANG_2004]

14. Tell him why

My father was a WWII vet. After high school when I was thinking about it, he gave me all the reasons from his personal experience on why being an enlisted man in the army was a miserable life. While I hadn't been very serious about it anyway, that cured me.

It's a lifestyle that some people take to, but wasn't at all appealing to me.

Of course, many years later, he told me how much he'd benefited by joining the army when he was 18 (mainly the GI Bill and a confidence that he could handle difficult situations on his own), so his early talk was basically propaganda to keep me from joining...

[Fierce]

17. Tell them to think about joining a service corps.

If your child is an adult, all you can do is talk about it.

[stanwyck]

20. Obviously, don't do what I did

my son is a Marine with two tours in Iraq and one (?) more coming up. He enlisted before the invasion of Iraq. He was still in infantry training after boot camp when we invaded. And you wouldn't believe the number of people who told me "he's so lucky on the timing. He'll never have to go over there. It will ALL be over in a matter of weeks." (Rumsfeld: "six weeks...six months")
We raised our children to be independent. And they are. We pushed our son into college. We knew he was reluctant. But we pushed anyway. He stayed for almost two years with a very low level of performance.
He told us he wanted to join the Marines. We stalled and asked him to wait six months. If he still wanted to enlist, he had our blessing.
Guess what? He still wanted to enlist. He signed the papers on a Friday and was on a bus to Parris Island on Monday.
So. Be careful how you push. Sometimes the way they push back is alarming.

[w8liftinglady]

23. how do you tell your son to not be a contractor...when he hears his

IRR status may be activated in the next 6 months?His rationale?"I'm going back to iraq either way-better to get my balls blown off for 120K than 30K"...apparently,you can't be deployed if you are working for a government contractor.What the hell do you say to that?..especially when they aren't finding jobs here.

[librechik]

39. good lord

sad to say, he might be right

[lumpy]

24. I was raising my small sons during the

Vietnam debacle. They absorbed the idea that joining the military was not a choice career. That is probably because of all the ranting and discussion against the war by their parents.

[JHB]

25. I would go with Option B.

It's the one that treats everyone involved like grown-ups.

Plenty of people view joining a service as service, giving something to their community and nation, and that's a perfectly laudable motivation. It just ignores the present reality, which is that those who currently direct their service abuse it beyond belief.

Dig up all the facts you can about how the Bushies are sticking it to the Rank & File: from pie-in-the-sky "planning" to "billions for contractors but not a cent to grunts" supply to "charge the wounded for their meals" medical to "walk home, fool" returns to VA cutbacks, and anything that's slipping my mind right now. Don't just tell them: make them go over it.

You may also want to check out this site:
http://www.citizen-soldier.org/
(be sure to include the hyphen: leaving it out brings you to a jingo RW site)

Respect their reasons for considering joining, but point out that the guys running it righ now have highjacked the whole thing and taken if for a joyride, and they don't care how much they bang it up. Ask your kid "do you still want to volunteer to be the fender?"

[OneBlueSky]

26. "You even think about it, and I'm locking you in the basement" . . . n/t

.

[genie_weenie]

27. Do you know any vets?

I have told all my friends and family members that when their children are thinking of joining to come talk to me or someone else who has been there...

Most Vets are NOT Gung Ho kill-bots. Especially if they have seen the inner workings of the beast (not just the horrible face of war, but the rampant nepotism, Admin pay fuck-ups, for shit duty assignments, being a lab rat for the new designer vaccine, and more).

[MercutioATC]

28. I told my son I'd break his legs if he tried to enlist.

Actually, it's not an issue with us. He has no intention of enlisting.

[Bluerthanblue]

29. DON'T TELL.... ask... and listen

ask what is prompting this decision and listen closely to the answers.
There are many reasons people enlist- many of them are illusions-

There are many ways to serve your nation, and your fellow man. Many ways that improve the world for everyone, not only the interests of the USA- There are ways to protect and defend the citizens that do not require weaponry, military training or violence.
War is a failure of communication and negotiation. War SHOULD always-always-always be the very last resort. There are branches of 'service' such as the Coast Guard, who are very vital and whose main focus is on rescue, and saving lives.

The one thing I would tell my children if they were hell-bent on joining the military, is that I have tried to raise them to use words, negotiation, alternatives to violence and terror to settle problems and confrontations- If they choose to join the ARMED forces, they will very likely be called upon to use weaponry against other human beings- And if they believe that is an option that they truly support and can 'live' with, then, the choice is really ultimately up to them.

The military isn't an 'answer' to getting an education- the cost is far too great-
There is NO 'job' that is beneath anyone- flipping burgers at McD's while finding out where your future leads, is not something to be ashamed of, or to avoid- neither is Bagging groceries at Shaws-
While the 'uniforms' may not evoke the same oohh's and aahh's - there is no job that isn't important, and that has the potential to teach us far more than to put the canned goods in the bag before the eggs, or how to keep a customer satisfied.

The Peace Corps, Habitat for Humanity, Vista, and other social building groups are wonderful ways to learn, and serve society too.

What IS "Patriotism"? Does loving ones country require studying war and killing?

(I come from generations of veterans- from the revolution-vietnam, and while I honor my ancestors decisions, and sacrifices- The best way to honor them I believe, is to work towards a world where war is obsolete- )


peace,
blu

[chat_noir]

30. better to show them how repub kids handle the war...

Jesus General photo montage





……….


www.awolbush.com




DESERTER: THE STORY OF GEORGE W. BUSH AFTER HE QUIT THE TEXAS AIR NATIONAL GUARD http://www.glcq.com/bush_at_arpc1.htm















$10,000 reward was never collected




Cheerleader action doll hahahaha

[Cerridwen]

31. I don't have kids but I have a short story.

I wanted to join the Air Force in 1975; I was 18. My mom had my two uncles, career Air Force, call and speak with me - long distance, on our dime. At the time, long distance was a big deal; not much money in our house and long distance was expensive. I don't remember exactly what was said in those 2 phone calls, but my mother's attitude and the fact she took the time to have my uncles "educate" me about the service, especially for women at that time, made a very strong impression. I didn't join.

If your children want to serve, is it possible they'd serve in other capacities? Peace Corps? Habitat for Humanity? A community non-profit feeding the homeless? If they gotta have uniforms, hell, maybe the Salvation Army? :D The pay's not great, they don't have the "glamour" and "perks" of military service, but serving in these ways doesn't usually cause mental illness, physical trauma or death.

Just my $0.02.

Oh, if only we glorified and rewarded the Peace Corps and community service the way we do the military.

[Arugula Latte]

32. I've talked to my kids about it,, and they're young.

I tell them that there were times in our history when war was necessary (WWII--their grandfather served and was injured severely). But we've also told them that for the most part, the last several decades have seen the military used primarily to further the interests of U.S. corporations, which has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people, most of them poor and brown ... They really get it. My son tells me that he will NEVER join the military.

[SmokingJacket]

33. I have sons, and I've thought about this a lot.

I was thinking of saying, "If you join, I'll kill you," but that wouldn't make much sense.

I guess I would make the best argument I could -- what it would feel like if you knew you killed an innocent person, what it would feel like to die in a meaningless war -- and then stand back and let the kid make his own decision.

Ultimately, it's THEIR life, not yours, so you have to let go.

[lonestarnot]

34. What is this fight for our nation BS? This is a bushitler war.

[fed-up]

35. Michael Moore's movie/books, my brother's a GWI Vet, lots of news/movies

that tell the truth, lots of graphic videos/pics including the "Highway of Death" from GWI and lots of anti-war info from his loving mom have kept my almost 18 YO son from wanting to sign up.

I had my son read all the newspaper articles that quote my brother about GWS/DU and all the lies that our military tells the troops so they will kill innocent human beings. I let him know that the military doesn't give a god-damn about the health of our soldiers once that have returned from battle and it will do all it can to deny and delay health care and will lie about what the soldiers were exposed to so that they can't get timely, proper medical care.

Describe PTSD in full detail.

Have him watch Hidden Wars of Desert Storm, Farenheit 911, the Corporation, Outfoxed etc.

Have him attend peace rallies, talk/listen to Vets from all the wars we have been involved in.

Help him to understand the long-lasting devastating effects that war has on both civilian and enlisted folks and damage to the infrastructure of the countries involved (either damaged by the war, or in disrepair because taxes are funding the war). Help him to understand who is making a HUGE PROFIT from the blood of well-intentioned, but misinformed soldiers.

Having him understand that the targets of this war are human beings just like we are and that they did NOT ask to be invaded. That those killed/injured have mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters and neighbors just like he does.

Education is the key here, make sure your child is fully informed with the FACTS and not with the bullshit propoganda from the military and RW media.


Good luck

[KansDem]

36. Show you child this (inspired by the "Your Brain on Drugs" campaign...)

This is you:


This is you in Iraq:


Any questions...?

[Zech Marquis]

37. for my co-worker's son

who was thinking about the Army last year, i simply took a pic from the newspaper of Darth Cheney and Rummy ;evilgrin: his family did the rest! And I'm happy to announce that it worked :bounce:

Now for ME, I'm going to take the Navy and Air Force officer exams this fall--while most of my friends and co workers have said"go for it Zech", 3 have expressed their disapproval, 1 being an ex gf who at least gave it a reasonable and well mannered response. The othr 2 became downright sobby and evil--one said that I was now supporting * :-( I can accept a olite, dignified disapproval, but I strongly disagree with someone calling ME of all people a future killer of innocent people...

[noonwitch]

40. It is your child's right to decide for himself.

You can tell him or her why you don't think he should enlist, but ultimately it is that child's decision to make.

If your kid listens to your arguments and still chooses to join up, the only thing you can do at that point is tell him how proud you are of him, that you support his decision and will send him care packages wherever he ends up, and that you will pray for his safety constantly.

[AirmensMom]

44. Thank you.

I'm glad someone said it. I wasn't happy when my daughter joined the Air Force (before bush*) and I was less happy when she extended her service last year. I'm proud of her and my A/F son-in-law, but I worry constantly about their safety. It was their choice to join and their choice to stay. I raised my kids to make their own decisions ... how can I complain when they do exactly that? (And, no, they're not bushbots.)

[NNN0LHI]

45. Is that what you would want some Iraqi father who had a son...

...bent on revenge against America for what we have done to them to do? You would want that father to support his sons decision too?

Or would you want him to take a more reasoned approach and try and discourage his son from coming over here to kill Americans?

Don

[Pattib]

41. I was in the Navy, DH is retired Navy...son is a senior in college and gay

so I really don't have your situation, at all. I do not want either of my children to join the service. I do not recall my service being horrible for me or my husband but in these times I would not do it. Especially with our current King on the throne. Plus, it is especially hard as a liberal to be in the service. I ended up really despising the system. I did meet my husband who was a moderate when we met. He is now a full-fledged Democrat....has been for nearly 15 years. I feel horrible for the young ones who really may be going into the service with noble intentions only to be used up by a corrupt government. Sad.

[JHB]

42. Coast Guard!

n/t

[NNN0LHI]

43. Don't think so

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/257231.html

[Ganja Ninja]

46. Perhaps a trip to a VA hospital might drive your point home.