The votes are rigged but I'm voting anyway. They are spying on us & I'll

[helderheid]

post anyway. The truth is not being reported on the TV but I'll tell the truth anyway.

Vote Absentee.

Blog.

Donate to DU.

[helderheid]

1. Oh foo!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

2. Damn Right helderheid, I'm With Ya!!

:toast:

[helderheid]

4. make that 2 - hoorah and

:hug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Awww, A Goodnight Hug :)

Thanks, and right back atcha. :hug:

Great post, and have a wonderful rest of your night.

[helderheid]

6. thanks and you too!!

[helderheid]

3. you like me! One of you really likes me!!

[samhsarah]

7. helderheid, you RAWK!

:headbang: right there with ya.

[PeachyDem88]

8. Count me in.

Illegitimi Non Carborundum, as they say.

Don't let the bastards wear you down.

[helderheid]

9. y'all are ending my day well. :) I need to take my advice and donate to DU

5 years! Everyone here can spare $5 on DU's b-day, right?

[Rainscents]

10. I'm with you!

When we stop fighting, we'll lose.

[OKDem08]

11. god bless DU but I think my next contribution

will be to the Paul Hackett campaign!

[helderheid]

12. How about this challenge:

$5 to DU and $5 to your favorite candidate?

And how about one more recommend?

[shraby]

13. I'm leading with my chin too.

[upi402]

14. vote ABSENTEE - I agree

I'm with ya. I will be monitored with patriotic pride. Unlike those unexamined patriotism victims of propaganda.

[applegrove]

15. So too - we have to hold our noses and make sure enough diebold

machines are in voting centres where there were too few. I'm sorry, but even if you think those suckers steal votes, there is no point to not fighting to make sure enough machines show up at the polls for the population. There are 50 ways the GOP gets elected and plays with the letter of the laws. We cannot get tunnel vision and ignore the other 49 - because there is much evidence of those 49 tactics playing roles in voter turnout or voting.

[feelthebreeze]

19. Applegrove... uh ya lost me on your logic there...

We know that the machines steal votes, but let's make sure there are plenty of them? HUH?

[applegrove]

20. I didn't say we know. There is no smoking gun. What if diebold has

been whipped up to make Dems infight and feel apathy? We know some people didn't get to vote because lines were too long and they left. We know this to be a fact. Because they left the line.

So - what I am saying - is keep your eyes open to all possibilities. Because if you don't want to fight for the right number of machines - then you will not get them. Should we not learn from the things that happened in the past? The 49 other ways votes were stolen and of which there is much evidence?

One thing for sure - someone turned away by a long line up is not voting. We know that 100%.

Exit polls are used to prove diebold machine stealing - but exit polls were wrong in districts where there was no diebold. That should give you pause for thought. That the exit polls from 2PM until 8PM gave dem voters the feeling Kerry had already won. And if you worked a job and got home early to vote, you turned on the TV and saw Kerry had won - how many of the 35% who didn't vote and never vote but would have - got easily swayed?

We know for a fact. It has been proven beyond a doubt that some voters saw long line ups in mostly Dem districts and left the line. Those people did not vote. There is not way a machine could steal their vote because they didn't vote.

So what I am saying is not to get tunnel vision and go with the easiest theory to explain the "bad men" all away. The bad men don't use one tactic to steal elections. They use 50.

You could fight diebold machines. But if you fail to ban them from your neighbourhood - are you just going to sit there and not make sure there are enough machines for all dem voters to vote? Will you be angry at Dem leaders in your area if they demand an increase in # of machines in your riding? This will create strife between the people who believe diebold stole votes and people who don't. All of whom are dems. It will create strife as both mods and progressives try and work together in 2006.

You are in fact saying that your belief that votes were stolen by machine - despite a culture of fear stirred by the GOP - and no smoking gun - you are drawing a line in the sand.

Would it not be better to say "okay - this is speculation and there is no smoking gun. So I will have to work with other Dems who do not share my views and I will have to not scare them off. I will have to encourage people to vote early, or by provisional ballot. But I have to also not start fights or assume the doors I know on have a family inside, willing to vote dem, but perhaps not believing diebold steals votes".

You underestimate the GOP if you think they only use one tool to suppress the vote. Don't make it any worse. You don't know. You don't.

Don't play into the GOP hands. And run your life and your particular campaign based more on fear that actual clear information that is commonly accepted facts.

GOP has done nothing to try and assuage diebold fear. Nothing. Why? It works for them. It slices and dices.

People who work elections, perhaps you, know that every single vote counts. And if you feel that diebold will steal a certain percentage of votes - you need to get everyone out to vote - so that it would be statistically impossible for that small percentage to be stolen - if you feel that is going on.

People who work elections know that you need to get every single one of your supporters out to vote. That means calling and calling them, driving them, making a list of those who need an extra kick. Now why if this is how elections are run... why would you encourage too few machines in your neighbourhood? Why would you work against the chance Dems have in your district?

[feelthebreeze]

22. So don't make it any worse. Allow for more hacked vote and...

time to get out of our denial and read more. I would prefer to end all 50 ways in which they have cheated. Rather than give them their number one weapon against the tool of Democracy, I think it is beholden upon us to end these machines. You build your argument on the premise that there is no smoking gun. The very essence of unreadable source code and lack of absolute veracity is all the smoke I need to show the corruptable nature of these abhorrent vote takers. Perhaps you view your denial as a strength to truth, but I challenge it and say it is almost as dangerous as the act of complicity itself. Yes, the GOP has well been documented for their 50 ways to leave a voter, but to give these machines out like candy and suggest that you are affording a reliable vote from the electorate by doing so is ludicrous. Your entire assumption is also based on fear of exposing the truth. Don't bring this up, it will muddy the waters from our fellow democrats. What insanity. These Machines are the spearhead and nexus to which all electorate fraud is tied. Your reasoning is convoluted in the extreme. If I end Diebold, ES&S, and SeQuoia, too name just a few, surely there will be other voting systems put in place to cover the needs of a demanding and deserving electorate. I have seen this rubbish of yours in other posts as well and I just don't get it.

[applegrove]

24. I'm telling you not to get tunnel vision. Do you agree that there should

be enough machines for all to vote or election day - in areas where we have not managed to stop the use of machines? Or do you want a small percentage of Dems to have no vote at all.

You cannot say where or when a vote will be taken. You cannot. Exit polls, of which the theory was based, were off in many places outside of areas where there was no use of machines.

Please tell me where and exactly what percentage of the vote will be stolen, district by disctrict or poll by poll, or you have to admit that stopping dems from voting in the greatest numbers on election day will serve the GOP.

[feelthebreeze]

41. You are gravely mistaken on your assumptions and I am running out of

patience.
1) You confuse the act of voting with the action of your vote actually being counted and tallied correctly. To simply vote on a machine provided insures nothing. Do you understand? Nothing. Better to not vote at all and show a rebellion against this massive fraud than allow yourself to be used as a tool in their continuing crimes.
2) I want all Americans to have the chance to vote. Not just Dems but Pubs as well. I know plenty of Repubs who hate this dictator in training and would remove him if their vote is counted and tallied with a system that is verifiable. This is not targeted just at Dems, but as a crime against our very Democracy. Against all citizens.
3) If the Machines are not used and stopped before 06 election, then surely we will not have long lines. Different systems will be utilized that will insure the speedy process to be completed. As a side note I am once again confused by your denial and warped logic on this issue. It seems as if you are a proponent of the very things I demand to be gone from this country. I will continue to watch your posts concerning this particular issue with more attention. I see the sowing of seeds that I find particularly distressing and questionable.

[helderheid]

33. I understand your thinking - I feel my time is better spent encouraging

early absentee ON A PAPER BALLOT voting. Can they rig that too? Sure, but at least your vote on record is that of a paper ballot.

[applegrove]

34. Well all the choices should be there. For a variety of voters. And that

means we have to fight in all ways.

[helderheid]

35. Agreed 100%

[applegrove]

36. That also means that if you run into someone like me who doesn't

believe diebold stole votes except in cases where there were faulty defaults (evidence) or too few machines(evidence), that we have to get along. You cannot fight with the people you are working beside.

We have to not let them wedge us. And work towards cleaning up every part of the election. And getting all the vote out.

[helderheid]

37. We need people like you who don't believe it was stolen because of machine

machines eating the votes, because you can concentrate on other disenfranchisement while us Diebold hating activists can concentrate on that. It also means you need to get along with us too. ;)

:toast:

[applegrove]

38. I try. I don't want us to hate each other if people like you & me were

to work together this election.

[helderheid]

39. we agree we want fair elections. There are many aspects that need to be

concentrated on for that to happen, which you obviously understand. I'm happy to work with you (just don't call me names and I'll refrain from doing the same, unless the name is patriot)! :)

Besides - how could I not get along with someone who's avatar is a glass of red wine, my very favorite drink?

[applegrove]

40. Peace n/t

[kster]

16. Oh, I'm going to vote and I'm going to vote early

and I'm also going to be very carefull not to scratch the screen on the voting machine with a key or any shark objects, it may take that machine out of business for the rest of the day. So I've been told, in another thread.

[feelthebreeze]

18. Whoo, thanks for the warning about the scratching, I would hate to ruin

another voter's chance to have their vote changed by an unreadable source code. It is so important to have many of these machines around so the nefarious bastards can claim that "America has spoken". What would happen if these machines were hurt on election day? Has HAVA created a back up plan for stealing our votes?

[Cleita]

17. Do not be afraid. No matter what happens.

These jackals feed on fear.

[applegrove]

26. Exactly. Don't succumb to your fears. Get the vote out. No matter how

it looks!

[EFerrari]

21. Eat a lot of peaches and twice a day

ask Special Agent Mike how he likes working for a loser. :)

[upi402]

23. slow down, I can't follow you...

I, uh... Mikewhoandwhypeaches?
:)

[EFerrari]

27. From the song, "Blow up your TV"

She was a level-headed dancer on the road to alcohol
I was just a soldier on my way to Montreal

Well, she pressed her chest against me
About the time the jukebox broke
She give me a peck on the back of the neck
And these are the words she spoke

Blow Up Your TV, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home

Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

I sat there at the table and I acted real naive
Cause I knew that topless lady, she had something up her sleeve
She danced around the room awhile and she did the hoochy cooch
Yea sing a song all night long tellin' me what to do

Blow Up Your TV, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home

Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

But I was young and hungry and about to leave that place
Just as I was going she looked me in the face

I said "You must know the answer"
She said "No, but I'll give it a try"
And to this day we've been livin' our way
Here is the reason why

We blew up the TV, threw away the paper
Went to the country, built us a home

Had a lotta children, fed 'em on peaches
They all found Jesus on their own


:)

[thebigidea]

25. I wonder why Bev's "Special Agent Mike" paranoia/lies still has traction?

While undoubtedly there are a more than few fools wasting their time "monitoring" DU, why give credence to Harris' delusions?

[EFerrari]

28. I give that grifter no credence, traction or slack. n/t

[Salviati]

29. That's my take on it for sure...

Why just give up... Make them actually cheat. If we all sit home and give up, then they won't have to. But if you force their hand, and make them cheat, there will be evidence, and it may come out...

[helderheid]

30. Good mornin' DU! Time for me to make my $5 donation.

[wildeyed]

31. Vote early, vote often, that is what I say.

:kidding:

But seriously, what is that quote about people of good conscience? The one where they allow evil to take root out of comfort and apathy? Well anyway, I am not going to do that. If it is wrong, I will say it is wrong.

I just laugh thinking about someone spying on me. If they are spying on me, then this country really is in the dumper. I stay at home with my two kids when I am not doing activist stuff. The poor spy would be dying of boredom listening to the stuff that goes on at my house all day. But I guess they have documented spying on Quakers and other peaceful antiwar groups, so why not spy on SAHMs.

[glitch]

32. Yep. This cat ain't herdable. nt

[proud patriot]

42. I'll be right there by your side

:patriot: