Men/Women Problems: Capricious Rush to Judgement?

[The Cleaner]

This website is a hoot, it's an article on BBC News UK with a big chart that pokes fun at the differences between men and women. Here's a couple:

Women order rice and eat men's chips.
Liam, Wales

Men will hear you open a beer from three rooms away.
Aileen, Scotland

Men can store useless information. Like the top speed of a car they are never going to drive, let alone own.
Rob, UK

Men can balance an infinite amount of rubbish in the bin, without noticing it is full.
Yvonne Eccles, England

Only women can understand other women.
Jon Lipscombe

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3002946.stm

I'm just your average old-fashioned sensitive/romantic guy I guess thrown into the 21st century of gender issue confusion.

I remember the joke years back: women don't like it when a man holds the door open for them because women are not helpless and are capable of opening the door themselves. But from my experience not one single woman has ever objected, In fact, most were pleasantly surprised. Because it's a nice thing to do to think of someone other than yourself.

Thing is, people get so offended nowadays based on nothing. I mean come on. I thought calling a woman "sweet" was a compliment, now I find it's actually an insult because "sweet" means submissive, naive and easy to push around. Come on! Sweet is good! It's not submissive, it's kind, nice, patient, gentle, and friendly while still being smart and perfectly capable of holding your own. It's a STRENGTH not a weakness and in any good society should be praised not looked down upon. Who came up with this submissive stuff.

You call a woman "girl" thinking it's a compliment they look so young or that maybe you still feel young yourself and you think they'd be happy to be made to feel young. It's just a manner of speaking and yet some get so offended by it. Should one call a woman "woman," or "lady," or what? Which is the "proper" terminology? And why does it matter so?

You urge the younger generation of girls (high school/college age) to get a "skill" because it's important for women to become independent and have a career but then you're lambasted for saying the word "skill" rather than "career" even though HELLO, you need SKILLS to succeed in any career.

A man dares to call a woman "cute" and look out, the gloves are coming off (why a man can be cute and a woman can't is beyond me). Why do women hate cute? Does this make any sense at all? I thought cute was a good thing but I suppose hot sexy and aggressive is the "new norm." In the not too distant past if you dared call a woman "hot & sexy" you'd get your head cut off and served on a platter.

Are today's male/female issues just one huge capricious rush to judgement, and has political correctness become the law of the land where one is hanged in the town square for deviating from such politically correct social norms?

[Lerkfish]

1. no offense, but IMHO, people who rail against political correctness

do so because they want to retain offensive language and attitudes to make THEMSELVES more comfortable, and discount the discomfort of others.
this may not apply to you at all, but my spidey senses go into red flag mode when people criticize political correctness.

[gkhouston]

21. epecially

when they go out of their way to bring the subject up on more than one occasion. :hi:

I've always liked your avatar, btw.

[Lerkfish]

25. oh, thanks!

:wave:

[Lindacooks]

32. When you get right down to it, political correctness is just

good manners.

I don't know why it isn't explained that way.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Opening the door for women

45 years ago, my grandfather gave me a little lesson on being a gentleman. Always open the door for a woman if you are going inside a building. The man should hold the door but exit a building first in case there is any danger lurking. And men should always walk on the sidewalk next to the street if walking with a woman. Always doff your hat for a woman. I've always remembered them and still conduct myself like that today. I appreciate my grandfather's influence.

I do recall one of the basic differences between boys and girls; I believe it was on Kid Cop with Aw-nud - Girls have vaginas, boys have penis's

[Warpy]

5. I've always held the door for someone coming in close on my heels

no matter what the gender is. That's just plain courtesy.

I can open my own car door, though. I'm not THAT much of a lady. Besides, exiting the car dressed to the nines is not a graceful process. I'd prefer not to have an audience clinging to the door.

[sam sarrha]

11. i dont open the door for the woman, just to keep thing flowing.. i am tall

just walk faster anyway.. it is stupid to walk away and let her catch up.. or have me follow like a puppy dog, and have her struggle with the doors, she is 5 feet tall..

so if a woman gets pissed off about being called sweet, so then can you call her a bitch..?? i just dont say much of anything anyway, i have aspergers syndrome and have no comprehension of social interaction anyway.. i would never give another person a complement like that, i thank them for things and leave the adjectives out. have learned to keep my mouth shut.. it is easier that way

i have been with my wife for 36 years, we have never had a an argument or exchanged harsh words. but maybe being Buddhists has something to do with that.

[Warpy]

13. Do two wrongs ever make a right?

If a woman reacts badly to being called sweet, does it make it OK for you to be rude? Does it ever? Really?

Your thoughts are your own, of course, but trying to have two wrongs come out to a right is something that other party specializes in.

[sam sarrha]

29. play on words.. and maybe they are just ill tempered..as i said i dont use

such words because of ill tempered people looking to bitch out people..

[Sparkly]

7. I had a dear friend in NYC who did that

Whenever we walked, he had to be on the street side. I thought it was -- dare I say -- "sweet!"

Another common courtesy is giving up one's seat on buses and subways -- not so much men standing up for women when it's not necessary, but both sexes relinquishing seats for anyone who appears to need it more (elderly, people with lots of packages or a baby, etc.). When I was pregnant, it was VERY rare for a man to offer me his seat on a subway -- in fact, in infuriated me that they'd sit and STARE at me as if they'd never seen a pregnant woman before. Most of the time, it was another woman who'd stand for me. (I always did the same.) Good manners are good manners.

[mongo]

19. "When I was pregnant, it was VERY rare for a man to offer me his seat"

That is really sad, and just underscores everything that is wrong with society today.

[Ohio Joe]

33. Men walking next to the road...

That one got me dumped after a first date, and I had never heard of it. It was with a girl I had met online through Match. After eating dinner, we went for a walk and some quiet conversation. After only a minute or two, she got a bit agitated and suddenly stopped, turned to me and said 'If you can't be courteous enough to walk next to the road I think I'm done with you' and off she went. All I could do was crack up laughing, I had no idea what she was talking about.

[Sparkly]

3. It's really not all that difficult.

Treat women like respectable grown-ups, that's all.

Calling women "girls," like calling black men "boys," is demeaning and literally belittling. (The "proper terminology" for women is "women.")

Comments on a woman's appearance -- "cute," "hot," "sexy," or other -- is inappropriate unless you're on very close personal terms with her. In the workplace and among women you don't know, such comments aren't likely to be welcome.

Same goes for "sweet," and especially within a phrase telling a woman to "calm down" or "smile."

Maybe it'd help simply to ask yourself whether you'd say the same thing to a man, before saying it to a woman.

[raccoon]

23. Amen!

"Calling women "girls," like calling black men "boys," is demeaning and literally belittling."

I started a thread on that once.

If a female is over 18, she's a woman.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Ooh, I hate it when I'm walking down the street deep in thought

and some completely unfamiliar bozo tells me I should smile.

What, I have an obligation to brighten up the scenery for him? Am I obliged to walk around grinning just because? How does he know why I'm not smiling? Maybe someone I love just died. Maybe I just lost my job. Maybe...I just...don't...feel...like...smiling.

:grr:

[Sparkly]

28. Don't even get me started on street harrassment!!!

Grrrrrrr!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Warpy]

4. I agree about redefining "sweet."

One of the financial people I dealt with in Florida as I was winding up my pop's affairs last winter told me she'd enjoyed working with me, because I was such a sweet person, "but you certainly know how to get things done and you won't take any garbage!"

I rather liked the description and hope it fits.

[SheilaT]

6. On a personal note

I love it when there's a two door entry, and a man holds the first door for me and I then hold the second one for him. They are always pleasantly surprised, and it's just (as far as I'm concerned) part of being considerate of others.

I'm 57 years old and I look approximately my age. I certainly don't look like I'm in my twenties or thirties, and I find it annoying when someone pretends I'm that young. Treat me like an adult.

[Marie26]

8. He's bAAAAcck. nt

[Fierce]

9. Stop talking and listen.

Women don't like being called girls because they aren't girls. They're women.

"Girl," "cute" and "sweet" are all diminutive. They describe kittens.

If you really care about what women think, listen to them, accept it, and quit trying to act like you're not the one being obnoxious.

[TygrBright]

10. Oh, criminy, I thought we'd evolved beyond this silly discussion...

...at least here on DU.

Look, semantics is pretty far advanced as a discipline in the study of human behavior. If you can't understand why words matter and/or why the same word can affect various people differently, go mug up one of the many popular books published recently that deconstruct the semantic implications of political and social speech. It's not "political correctness," it's not a huge conspiracy, it's a combination of common sense, awareness, and good manners.

Fact: Different women will respond differently to words applied to them by men, and they'll respond differently in different situations as well. You might be able to get away with, or even receive appreciation for, using some words in an intimate or social context that would get you disciplinary action or a lawsuit in a professional or public context. Deal with it. MAKE THE EFFORT to observe what does and doesn't piss people off, and try to avoid pissing people off. Bonus points for making the effort of thinking about or trying to analyze WHY certain words and their usage might piss people off, but that's optional.

Fact: Words matter to EVERYONE, not just women. If using language in such a way as to avoid offending people and/or gain their good will is "political correctness," then it applies to everyone. Yes, even straight white middle class males who won't stand for being referred to in ways that subtly denigrate their masculinity, potential sexual prowess, and/or social status. Just get over your resentment that people take words seriously and will be offended and/or annoyed by your careless, unthinking, hopefully not malicious use of words that have acquired a weight of negative semantic context. People are funny that way.

My husband can call me cute because I know him and I know exactly how much respect and value he has for me as a person and a professional in my field. And he won't do it in public, because he wants others to share that respect. A stranger calling me cute in a purely social context, I'll feel mild irritation but cut some slack to, because they may not know any better. A professional colleague, someone in the business, political, or professional world calls me 'cute,' I'll be seriously irritated and lose respect for that individual's competence and/or essential communications skills.

Freedom of speech allows you to make an ass of yourself without government intervention or punishment, but it doesn't require the other people to ignore that you're making an ass of yourself.

exasperatedly,
Bright

[mongo]

20. What a cute post!

:sarcasm:

You know, words do have power. And in the right context, the ability to offend/anger people with words is a wonderful and powerful thing.

[TygrBright]

31. Ha! Exactly....

:thwap:

It's like * using nicknames as a way of asserting power. Context is EVERYTHING.

Words used by consenting adults in private are a whole 'nother thing than words used (or misused) by ill-mannered semi-evolved life forms as nonconsensual power plays. When it's done by drooling neanderthals or snotty stick insects in a purely entertainment/social context, that's bad enough. When it's done by those in positions of power who should know better, we end up with a meaner, creepier, less functional society and an unfriendly, dangerous world to live in.

sadly,
Bright

[treestar]

12. Finally we have achieved normalcy

I recall arguing this kind of subject before 911 all the time. Then it sort of went away. If it is coming back, it means the wars and the terrorists are all faded to insignificance again!

Glory Hallelujah!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, men and women are "different." Whether that goes any further than reproductive function is hard to say. Probably not, since women pretty much do anything men do given the chance. One grouping of human beings never wants to be subservient to another and if they are it is due to societal pressure.

I am a woman and am pretty sure I don't want to be dominated by any other person, male or female. I want to count, too. I am pretty sure I can do whatever I want. I am pretty sure I don't have any respect for any person male or female who wants to dominate and control me. I'm sure there are other women who agree. Those who don't (the freeper women) are lying through their teeth, trying to dominate men in an underhanded way, but still, trying to make their own destiny, or pretending to one thing in an attempt to control other women.

[Kailassa]

17. There is another explanation for freeper-women.

Being dependant is so much easier, and it means there is always someone else too blame.

Men why shy away from independant women don't realize what a burden a dependant one can be.

This thread has made me think about differences between people,
and I'd say there is a bigger difference these days between
the average democrat and republican than there is between
the average man and woman.

I wonder how much more difference it would take to make
intermarriage between the two groups rare enough to allow
speciation?

[treestar]

30. IA, people are people, and have various characteristics

regardless of race or sex and the potential is there for each person to do anything.

[lukasahero]

14. "A man dares to call a woman "cute" and look out," Hi, remember me?

What you actually said was "relax cutie" and then went on to simply dismiss the concerns I had laid out in a reply post to yours.

That thread was locked by the way because while you were expecting a big "Amen, brother", what you got was eviscerated - by almost every single person who responded to your post.

Think about it. If so many people here found what you said offensive, are they all wrong or might it be you?

[FormerDem06]

15. There's a guy in our office who used to be a college quarterback

and he looks the part. We have a lot of beautiful women who work in this office. He can get away with ANYTHING with women who are normally saying the same things some are saying on this board are inappropriate.

It's amusing, he told the receptionist that she looked hot in "those pants". She blushed and giggled. I have heard him have some amazingly crude conversations with the female VPs and they let it happen because they want his attention (married or not).

None of the rest of us would dare try (or want to since I am a married man...but so is he); but it just goes to show that people are people and the old rules of attraction still apply in some cases.

I still hold the door (or elevator) for most everyone though, it's the polite thing to do regardless of the gender.

[omega minimo]

16. oh fuck .................. ..........................

:evilfrown:

"Are today's male/female issues just one huge capricious rush to judgement, and has political correctness become the law of the land where one is hanged in the town square for deviating from such politically correct social norms?"

Go back. Go away.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. Here we go again.

Here to tell us how "career women" are silly again?

:eyes:

[Boojatta]

22. Proper terminology

You call a woman "girl" thinking it's a compliment they look so young or that maybe you still feel young yourself and you think they'd be happy to be made to feel young. It's just a manner of speaking and yet some get so offended by it. Should one call a woman "woman," or "lady," or what? Which is the "proper" terminology?

The proper terminology is "human." For example, you can say, "Human, your technology is laughably primitive. My comrades and I will have fun trashing this planet."

[Crankie Avalon]

24. Are you going to tell another woman you don't know to, "Relax, cutie?"

:wow: :popcorn:

[Sparkly]

26. That Forbes article is about to be discussed on Franken's show

Listen if you can. (It's Christie Harvey - sp? - and Tom Oliphant.)

http://www.airamerica.com/

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. Jesus Christ on a cracker...

AGAIN with this shit??? :eyes:

And don't even try telling me, "Relax, sweetie."

You really need to spew this stuff someplace else.

[maddezmom]

35. locking

Do not start a new topic in order to continue a flame war from another discussion thread.