A simple Yes or No: Have you changed your mind about 9/11?

[Philosoraptor]

I'd prefer we not get into details and specifics, just trying to get a feel for things five years after. Of course feel free to respond as well.

I'm just referring to the official story about the event and your own personal opinion, has it changed over the last five years, or is it the same?

I know its more complicated than a simple yes or no, but many people have had a change of mind about how it all went down. Personally, my opinion hasn't changed.

And if this thread is in the wrong forum, I apologize in advance.

[sendero]

1. I took...

... the whole story at face value when it happened.

I honestly don't see how a sentient being could possibly buy the story now.

Our illustrious president didn't pull out all the stops to derail any serious investigation for nothing.

[liberal N proud]

2. Something still does not smell right about the "official story"

When that happened, all I could think about was that we had the biggest idiot in the world to lead us at a time like that.
He could have proved me wrong, but he has done nothing but prove me right with every decision since that day.

[smtpgirl]

5. I totally agree with your statement,

I think that the *ush Admin is responsible for 9/11

[City Lights]

10. And what's truly sick is that 9-11 is his greatest moment.

Or specifically, his bullhorn moment atop the rubble. :puke:

All according to the "official" story, of course. :eyes: How did America end up with such low standards? :mad:

[Initech]

49. I agree just like JFK Ive always suspected foul play in the official story

There is something that has always had a foul stench in my book. Bush was pretty unanimously hated from the time he stole the 2000 election up until not even 24 hours before 9/11 (just read the Newsweek that week if you do not believe me). Even on the DAY OF 9/11, he was still pretty unanimously hated. How in hell could he go from being hated like that to being the greatest hero in American history when he stood on top of the WTC ruins with some fire fighters and a megaphone? Doesnt make a whole lot of sense.

[Red Right and BLUE]

63. I voted yes

and I agree. Something isn't right. I don't belive their 'explanations'

[Phrogman]

3. I've gone from thinking that they saw it coming and let it happen to

thinking that some in our government actually facilitated some of the hijackers, and deliberately disabled air defenses that day.

I bet I'm not the only one to draw these conclusions.

At least, I hope I'm not. But I'm an expatriate living overseas, I'm not under the homeland propaganda umbrella. So, the view is quite different from out here.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. You're not the only one. I'm LIHOP/MIHOP. Have been since day one.

:hi:

[reichstag911]

32. Ditto...

...my initial response when I heard was "Cui bono," and I've neither seen nor heard anything to dissuade my belief in LIHOP/MIHOP.

[Phrogman]

69. And when I read that the Bin Laden family had been escorted out of the ...

country, to Saudi Arabia, a country with no extradition treaty with the USA, that it was quite obvious something was "rotten in Denmark".

Whatever that means.

[benevolent dictator]

46. Yep I'm a MIHOP believer and have pretty much always been. nt

[lostnotforgotten]

4. LIHOP Pure And Simple All The Evidence Suggests Same

eom

[xchrom]

6. so many people knew that something wicked was this way coming --

it was always a question of who didn't know for me...

i'm a LIHOPer.

[w13rd0]

7. I was a 10%-er on the 12th of September 2001...

...and remain so today.

[Eurobabe]

8. Was LIHOP, now more towards MIHOP

Didn't trust the fuckers then, trust them even less now...

[ComerPerro]

50. I think the truth lies somewhere in between

let it happen sounds too easy, made it happen just doesn't seem likely.

LIHOP suggests that they heard about the attacks, maybe as late as that morning, and decided not to stop it because they needed a Pearl Harbor.

MIHOP could go as far as to suggest it was a covert CIA operation.


My view could be summed up as, "Made sure it would happen", as in, "well, we know they are planning this, let's make sure that it happens and happens big"

[TahitiNut]

61. I use a curling model ... sweepers.

The sweepers don't "make it happen" or "let it happen" - they're somewhere in-between, creating conditions such that the result is as close to what's desired as they can without actually touching the stone. It didn't take many sweepers - and I doubt that they needed to actually know a stone was sliding in their direction, either.

The fatal flaw in most "conspiracy theories" is the number of folks who'd have to keep a secret. Well, there are ways of managing and compartmentalizing that don't require awareness of one's participation. Any time a CT requires some kind of knowledge/realization on the part of many people, even in hindsight, I discount it.

That said, the "official" story has that fatal flaw.

[ComerPerro]

65. ooohhh, curling. Good analogy, actually

[Greyhound]

9. Mind changed here. Too many lies told about things that it there

is no need to lie about if there is nothing to cover up.

[Demeter]

11. I Feel Even More Strongly Today That Something Is Rotten

My first thought as I heard the radio was airplanes aren't supposed to fly over Manhattan in the first place. The nightmare, and the complete lack of government response, went on for hours.

Then there was the Chicken Little reactions from people in high places who really ought to have known better. And it just gets uglier as the years roll by.

I hope that something approaching the truth comes out before I die, but the odds are against it. It took 60 years for the dirt on WWII to surface: the Swiss banks, the life insurance companies, IBM and Preston Bush. Iran/Contra was frozen solid by Dubya to protect Poppy's ass. The chances of anything being disclosed in under 100 years is slim.

[reichstag911]

34. Prescott Bush, not Preston,...

...otherwise, right on.

[marions ghost]

12. from the first I could see that

the towers did not fall straight down in seconds UN-assisted. I have studied architecture and know how these buildings are constructed. Plane damage would have been significant, but the buildings would have held up, at least in part. So the whole thing was fishy to me from the moment I saw those 3 buildings implode and smack the dirt in 01 ...and then the 9-11 Commission investigation was so flawed...I really didn't need to know any more after that.

I have no interest in debating this as I haven't really followed all the arguments. I made my mind up in 01 and haven't changed it.

[HughBeaumont]

13. If we're talking a six-month time frame, then "no".

Went from being enraged when it happened to a day after, asking how and why were four jets hijacked at the same time.

Then, six months later, going slightly at LIHOP when I realized that much of the offical version was a pile of batshit.

Year later, MIHOP and even COINOP at times (Collectively Orchestrated It Nefariously On Purpose).

I still stand by MIHOP. And remember, MIHOP absolutely does not mean you have to believe in Controlled Demolition, Pentagate, missiles, pods, holograms, alien lizards, Tri-illuminati, or whatever other silly counter-argument the curmudgeon believers of the Bushco-populated 9/11 Commission POS throw at the "conspiracy theorists". It means you look at the events (The Terror Timeline by Paul Thompson is the definitive source on this) before, during and after that day, put 2 and 2 together and realize in all honesty there isn't a damned way on EARTH that our government and the corporations that own them were NOT in on this day. Everything about that event bordered from the improbable to the impossible to just happen by coincidence and by 19 under-trained Saudi and Egyptian "terrists".

Don't think for one SECOND that your government is not as bad as we say it is, or that corporations aren't this soulless and greedy. They think more of the gum they step on accidentaly than they do with the "unluckies".

[HornBuckler]

14. Well said.

You've illustrated my thoughts/beliefs as well as I ever could.

[marions ghost]

30. and...

if the War on Iraq had gone "swimmingly" would there even be as much interest as there is now in finding out what happened on 9-11? If the mission was accomplished there, the public might have blindly 'moved on' as instructed by Fox & Rush.

With the complete failure of the present administration in every sphere (unless you're an obscenely rich fat cat) it becomes easier to see that the 9-11 "official story" needs to be re-examined.

[CJCRANE]

36. I also think

that the PNAC/Neocon crew never took the internet into account.

They're Cold War dinosaurs used to being able to manipulate the media to send pesky inconvenient facts down the "Memory Hole".

With the internet those media stories don't turn into fishwrap anymore, they stay there on the web for anyone interested who cares to look them up.

[Philosoraptor]

37. Exactly, I wish we'd had the internet when JFK was murdered.

Then we'd probably have a better handle on who benefited and is now serving in our government.

The internet won't let the dead rest easy will it?

Long live the miracle of the internet and DU, I live in a world without it for decades.

[marions ghost]

39. yeah good point

they can't get rid of the blood stains quite so easily as they used to...even when they tie big pieces of tower fragments to the bodies of evidence, they just keep bobbing up in that vast internet sea.

[azurnoir]

15. Knew from the minute I turned the tV on

what I was seeing and what I was hearing did not match.

[CJCRANE]

16. My initial reaction

was that B*sh had brought this on America (but not responsible for it). From day one he'd gone around ripping up treaties (Kyoto, ICBM, ICC) and giving the finger to the world, so it didn't surprise me (I thought he had it coming).

It's taken me until the beginning of this year just to try and figure out how all the different pieces of the puzzle fall together (Saudi interests, Dubai interests, Israeli interests, Halliburton etc etc).

(I'm of the LIHOP/MIHOP persuasion just from the political/financial/intelligence evidence. "Controlled demolition" comes way down the list of things to investigate IMO, although I don't rule it out).

[oblivious]

17. It was the growing shrillness of the shills that confirmed it for me.

As more and more of the official story started unraveling, they started pulling out all the stops to try to marginalize anyone who publically questioned the OCT. If there was any substance to the official story they wouldn't have had to do that. (edit:spelling)

[CTyankee]

18. I voted for "b"

I remember being caught up in the conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination. While they still swirl around, no real proof has emerged from all of the investigative studies and research that has gone into it that LH Oswald did it alone. But then I thought for sure that it would be revealed that he did not carry it out alone.

I truly don't know about 9/11. What I do know is that this admin. has been so thoroughly incompetent it couldn't coordinate a 2 car funeral, much less such an horrendous catastrophe. If they could pull that off, why couldn't they pull off the Iraq pacification or at least look like they could manage Katrina (even if they didn't care, except for how it made them look)? Plus, their screwups on Social Security, the Dubai Ports deal and on and on.

Besides, 9/11 was predicted ahead of time by the Rudman/Hart Commission. People in the FBI were screaming, Richard Clarke was screaming. Plenty of non-Bushies were trying to get the word out about al Quaeda and its activities.

I grant you that this administration is evil to its rotten core, that it doesn't care about human beings and is driven by a murderous ideology. But I think it is entirely feasible that al Quaeda pulled this off because it knew that the heat was off when Bush took office and took advantage of this stupendously arrogant administration.

[Tesha]

19. LIHOP then, LIHOP now. (NT)

[MervinFerd]

20. It's in the wrong forum. YES.

Yeah, I've finally decided.

It was actually an elite squad of CIA and Air Force Suicide Bomber Pilots who flew holographic freighter planes equipped with i-pods into the towers, which fell down because there were 22,382 charges of ThermAte planted carefully on each floor by invisible elves.


I don't think the Apollo Moon landings happened either.

[Philosoraptor]

21. mr. comedy

thank god you are always there for me.

[CJCRANE]

24. And I got a port to sell you...nt

[LSK]

55. maybe you should research before sounding like a clown

[enid602]

22. strange

I just thought it strange that the Administration seemed so unwiling to let investigations continue.

[CJCRANE]

23. Can I just say

re: Bushco competency in facilitating 9/11 - I don't think they were fully competent or fully successful.

First off they didn't cover their tracks very well, otherwise we wouldn't be having this debate.

Secondly they didn't have the echo chamber in place back then to blame it on Iraq, which they wanted to do straightaway (and tried to get Wes Clark to do). That came later.

Thirdly, the fourth plane (United 93) didn't reach its target. The destruction of the White House or US Capitol building would've given them a green light to implement a state of emergency and de facto dicatorship. Instead they had to fall back on sending out the anthrax to get the Dems and media in line.

[Philosoraptor]

25. Bldg. #7 may have been the target of United 93.

Bldg. #7 fell all by itself, never got hit, but fell just like the two other wwtc bldgs.

[Arkansas Granny]

26. I had serious doubts about the official story from the very

beginning. Nothing has happened to change that feeling, except to intensify it.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

27. I am wise enought to know we never get the full story

but I have examined the conspiracy theories and also the debunking sites and I am satisfied it was not done by Americans. I do not blame the Bush administration for it happening. Did they exploit it? Hell yeah. I don't respect them for that.

[dogday]

28. Yes and it was hard to come to terms

with it... Most of us at first say no way, they would not do that, crazy.... The more I hear and see, the more that is proved after the fact, the more I realize MIHOP or LIHOP are more than just phrases...

[Zynx]

31. Believed it was incompetence then. I believe that now.

This government has never been able to do anything right. They can't even pass an estate tax cut with huge majorities in both houses. This is something they really want to do. I don't believe they're capable of orchestrating squat.

[Pierre.Suave]

33. In the beginning

I believed the story, now, not at all. not one eensy teensy bitsy little bit of it...

[CJCRANE]

35. So, 9/11 wasn't done by Americans

but...

- 15 of the hijackers came from Saudi Arabia
- Much of the funds for the 9/11 operation came from Saudi Arabia
- The Bush family has received $1.6 Billion from Saudi business interests
and had a close relationship to the Saudi royals and bin Ladens

Bin Laden's main demand was to remove US troops from Saudi Arabia and after 9/11 that's exactly what the B*sh administration did.

Doesn't that seem a bit strange?

on edit: I'm not suggesting that Saudi Arabia did it. My belief is that the neocons used the assets and connections that they already had in place to provide their "new Pearl Harbor". They also realised that most people form their opinions from newspaper headlines and TV news bulletins not from in-depth analysis of the facts.

[goddess40]

38. What did they do now, was my first thought that morning

and I still wonder how the bush administration was involved in the tragedy.

There has been no evidence that they weren't involved, directly or not, and the more that comes out the more it condemns them.

[rman]

40. MIHOP since 2003

I suppose that's a "no", but i voted "yes"...

[newspeak]

41. I smelled something rotten five years ago, and that hasn't changed

When the people demanded a 9/11 investigation, the administration finally gave in-but, who was the first chosen to lead the investigation? good ole Pinochet loving boy, Kissinger. I knew something was up-so much for independent panel. Then, when the administration would allow only certain people on the panel to see certain documents, and only parts of documents, and * had to have Cheney with him to answer questions, mind you, not under oath. Yeah, they just went in front of the panel to have a little discussion, so we don't need no stinkin oath. My question is, why didn't the majority of the people react when they found out how the investigation was being circumvented? Red flags should have popped up

[MorningGlow]

42. I stand firm

Never bought the official story and still don't. I'm MIHOP all the way and I don't care if people call me crazy, either. Is there a "stubborn" smiley? Lacking that, proudly :tinfoilhat:

[earth mom]

43. They had me fooled till mid 2003 when I got DSL and got a clue!

Now I believe it was LIHOP/MIHOP all the way. It wasn't incompetence that made them not dot every I or cross every T, but sheer arrogance that they would get away with it-why bother with the details?!

IMO, anyone who believes in the official story or that a bunch of bad guys named Al Qaeda even exists is fooling themselves and in deep denial. I really don't understand how anyone could give * & his thugs the benefit of the doubt anymore. HELL NO! Not after all they have done!

:grr:

[Ferret Annica]

44. 9-11 is an inside job

And I live in outrage and deep alarm we have a government of little Hitlers who would dare burn a Reichstag in America.

[GliderGuider]

45. From the start I had reservations about the official story

But now I'm "off the reservation".

It's MIHOP, baby. All the way.

[Swamp Rat]

47. The response to Katrina only intensified my suspicions and beliefs

:(

[ComerPerro]

48. That morning, while I watched the news, I knew the events would be

just what Bush wanted and needed, and I knew it seemed too convenient.

[CrushTheDLC]

51. My first thought, upon seeing the second plane hit the WTC

...which of course, removed all chance of it being an accident, was "those fucking bastards did this".

And I wasn't referring to Al Qaeda.

Of course I tried NOT to think that. NOT to believe it. REFUSING to believe that the government of the United States, even obvious bastards like the Bush Crime Family, could go THAT far.

But, sadly, nobody has ever PROVEN otherwise. They did it. How and to what extent they were personally involved is irrelevant. They did it. And you must accept that reality, ugly as it is, to realize exactly who and what we are dealing with, or else we can never turn this country back from what these treasonous bastards have done.

[mogster]

52. I'm more suspicious now

Too many coincidences. Besides, the general demeanor of the people involved and their history of lying/MIHOP behaviour - as witnessed every day here at the DU - makes me more of a MIHOP than a LIHOP. I have a problem in believing in the whole Al-Queda thing, to be honest. I see this kinda from the outside, from Norway.

How it look from afar, MIHOP/LIHOP notwithstanding:

A group of very radical politicians are taking every advantage there is to be taken from the hightened feeling of crisis in your country. And their radical political platform is being made possible by the events on 911, which has attained religious proportions by some.
When things start to simmer down and people start going back to normal, they reopen the wound by scaring people unnecessary, and twist the knife until the wound bleeds again.
They started a war - totally unnecessary - to increase the feeling of crisis, to keep their control on the US society. And make a lot of money.
They're clearly very evil and inconsiderate, with no limits to how far they'll go. That's why I'm turning.

[angstlessk]

53. There should be 4 points to this poll..

Yes, I used to believe the official 'conspiracy theory' now I do not.
Yes, I used to believe it was other than the official theory now I believe the offical theory.
No, I always believed in the official 'conspiracy theory' and stil do.
No, I always believed the official account was bogus and still do.

[Philosoraptor]

56. That would've been more accurate.

Leave it to me to muddy it up. But that is what we're left with. I think it will take some more time to go by before most folks start to question it.

[LSK]

54. Yes

[newspeak]

58. you know, I know why I have white hair

First the 2000 election debacle-I remember * couldn't do the full walk because he experienced a jeering, tomato throwing public; then 9/11 happened, and most people said let's pull together; then, the anthrax attack before the shoving down our throats, the patriot act; then, the death of a peoples' senator, Paul Wellstone near the elections; then, the war in Afghanistan, cause that's where Al Quaeda is being hidden and supported by the Taliban; then, the set up of distortions and lies about Iraq culminating in war; then Katrina hits, people screaming, crying, begging for aid (watching people die in the US on your screen); and it's all a coincidence, just a coincidence. My, my the neo-cons have been busy!!!!

[The Wielding Truth]

57. When the the message was whispered in *'s ear and he just nodded

I thought he was saying to himself well okay now it's begun I keep reading to ensure my innocence and photo op then I'll get the word how it went as to what I do next. He was not surprised. He did not act to take control of the situation. He did not excuse himself immediately. He did not order immediate clearing of the skies. He did nothing but go through with the plan. Strange. It was so strange and so not Presidential and such a fortunate catalyst to insert militarily business interests into the key of the middle east. The PLAN. Collateral payment for the plan. As Condi says they will remake the Middle East. That is the only truth I have heard from any of them since that day.

[SutaUvaca]

59. MIHOPer now.

Simply uninformed before.

[Ino]

60. It took a while to raise my suspicions

I accepted the official version... until Iraq. Huh? But... but... what about Bin Laden? Then I saw Fahrenheit 911. I'm firmly LIHOP, but I wouldn't be at all surprised it's MIHOP. I don't believe ANYTHING BushCo says about ANYTHING.

[TheWatcher]

62. No, I haven't changed my mind one bit

I never believed the Official Story to begin with.

I sincerely hope against all hope that this country does not fail to hold those accountable this time who are responsible for this, like it has failed for the past 44 years to face up to what really happened to Kennedy.

[bobthedrummer]

64. Haven't changed much since it was LIHOP at a minimum

moreover I firmly believe there was a coup of sorts when this administration was installed by SCOTUS in 2000.

[Generator]

66. Yes

From refusing to even think of the idea that the government had any knowledge at all to questioning everything. I don't have an absolute answer. I only know that the story my government tells is woefully incomplete and most of the questions haven't been answered.

See/Google:
Able Danger, Sibel Edmonds, Operation Northwoods, Christine Rowley, Crossing the Rubicon, The Complete 9/11 Timeline/Paul Thompson.

Spend awhile. Be aghast.

[Ilsa]

67. Yes; I was naive then. And I heard dark speculation from nonpolitical

sources then, that their friends in the military knew something was up. I'v elearned more and am caught between LIHOP and MIHOP.

[Mrs. Overall]

68. A seed of doubt was planted when my spouse said, "The jet over PA was shot

down." He said this on the evening of 9/11. I told him he was crazy, but now I am definitely a believer in "let it happen on purpose" and the more I continue to educate myself on the events of that day, the more I am beginning to believe, "made it happen on purpose."