RW e-mail on immigration/cheap labor

[Mz Pip]

I already check snopes and it wasn't there. I am questioning how much illegal aliens actually qualify for. Seems unlikely they are filing tax returns since the social security numbers are made up. I just don't have the facts on all the rest of it. An no, I will not just hit 'delete'. If people send be false propoganda they need to be called on it.

Mz Pip
:dem:



CHEAP LABOR?
Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?
Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage
Consumers don't want expensive produce
Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs
But the bottom line is cheap labor.
The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, a lie...an oxymoron. There is no
such thing as "cheap labor." Take, for example, an illegal alien with a
wife and five children.
He takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour.
At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet
at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an
"earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.
He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent
He qualifies for food stamps
He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care
His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school
He requires bilingual teachers and books
He qualifies for relief from high energy bills
If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for
SSI
Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare
All of this is at the taxpayer's expense.
He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or
homeowners insurance.
Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed
material.
He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour
in benefits.
Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after
paying their bills and his.
The American taxpayer's also pay for increased crime, graffiti and trash
clean up.
Cheap labor?
YEAH RIGHT!
Wake up people!

[spindrifter]

1. So what benefits does the American

who works for $5 or $6 and hour get--hmmm...exactly the same except they might not need the bilingual books, education, etc. But then again, maybe the American is a Spanish-speaker born here. That's right. No cheap labor.
Oh, but that American might insist on a labor union---and then the wages go up.

Actually, I don't know how much of the benefits listed in this "email" are actually available to non-citizens here illegally. I suspect not all are.

[Mz Pip]

2. When I worked for social services

people had to provide birth certificates and social security numbers. But this was 30 years ago and I don't know how much has changed.

Hard to believe an illegal can get SSI because Social security numbers are required.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[silverweb]

3. He's *almost* on the right track.

What that e-mail is really arguing for is a living wage and an end to corporate welfare! The RW just hasn't made all the connections yet, though, and is still beating that ancient drum against immigrants and "welfare" assistance for the working poor.

As for an illegal immigrant filing a W2 and getting a tax return, earned income credit, etc, I don't know if that's true and actually don't see how it could be true. Wouldn't that just be begging for a visit from La Migra?

[Cleita]

7. Blaming the poor as scapegoats is as old as history.

Social Security numbers aren't that hard to get. Savvy dealers in fake documents know how to game the system so that the employer might not know it's not a legitimate number. Most unauthorized workers who have taxes deducted file tax returns. The IRS isn't particular as to where the numbers came from as long as the taxes are paid. I'm sure welfare and SS are more particular about a double check so it's unlikely immigrants would try to collect unless they are stupid.

As for a visit from La Migra, most government agencies don't tattle to each other if it's not their jurisdictiion.

[SheilaT]

4. If he's illegal

he's not filing for an income tax refund and he's not getting an earned income credit.
And what free health is he qualifying for? The employer who hires him isn't giving him any. And he's probably afraid to take himself or any member of his family to a doctor or emergency room anywhere because he's worried they'll report him to INS. No one qualifies for SSI unless they've paid into the system for a significant length of time, so that benefit is out.

No, I don't think this hypothetical illegal immigrant is costing the U.S. taxpayer anything.

Someone needs to write similar screeds about the overpaid CEOs of major corporations and what they actually cost us. Or how those corporations don't pay their fair share of taxes which is why Joe and Jane Middle America are paying so much.

Added after looking at my most recent mailing from Social Security:
To get Disability Benefits if you become disabled right now, you need 35 credits of work and 20 of these credits had to be earned in the last 10 years.
As it happens, I personally have not worked enough in the last ten years to qualify for Disability Benefits. I guess if someone has worked enough, then they deserve the benefit, right? So what's this guy's beef again?

[Mz Pip]

5. As for the CEOs

How much of our tax dollars are going to investigations, indictments and trials? How much did Ken Lay cost us? Probably a lot more than any individual illegal.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[spindrifter]

6. Bravo! That is a great point

about writing about the overpaid CEOs and corporations. That info should be circulated far and wide.

[Cleita]

8. These were the same things said about so-called welfare

queens back when they were the scapegoat of convenience. I even had someone tell me that they knew of a lady who had a dozen fake social security numbers that she collected welfare on. Oh, yes she drove a Cadillac. Same screed, different scapegoat.

[unlawflcombatnt]

14. You couldn't be more wrong

And he's probably afraid to take himself or any member of his family to a doctor or emergency room anywhere because he's worried they'll report him to INS.

Illegal immigrants are not the slightest bit worried about being "reported" when they go to an emergency room. ERs are forbidden by law from turning anyone away, and most illegal immigrants know this. I've seen probable illegal immigrants in the ER many times, and they are never even questioned on their legal residence. They are treated exactly the same as anyone else.

The fact that they are treated, at great expense to taxpayers and hospitals, is the main reason so many ERs in Southern California have closed. County facilities take anyone who walks through the doors. Private facilities MUST take anyone who walks through the door, or face a $50,000+ fine. They MUST take patients, regardless of their ability to pay. Again, it is illegal to turn someone away because of inability to pay.

It's amazing how widespread this myth is that illegal immigrants can't get medical care because of their status, or that they're afraid of being reported. That's just complete nonsense.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Nikki Stone 1]

9. Labor is cheap for the corporations and the taxpayer foots the bill

The problem with this email is that it targets the worker and not the American corporate complex which is basically being subsidized--they let the taxpayers pay the living costs that they normally would have to provide were the worker legal.

[Alacrat]

11. I have a question

I always hear people say "make corps pay their fair share of taxes" and that sounds good to me. I have also heard the freeper rebuttal "corps don't pay taxes, they may on paper, but the cost is passed on to consumers, so consumers ultimately pay the taxes not the corps". I don't see how anyone can figure out our tax structure, I sure can't, so which is correct? Do the corps pay taxes, or their customers?

[unlawflcombatnt]

17. Exactly

Exactly. And American workers "pay" indirectly through wage suppression and lost jobs. 7 million of the 143 million American jobs are taken by illegal immigrants. The wage suppression is put at $1700/year per worker by economist George Borjas.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Stargazer99]

10. Our collective foot needs to be put on business

this administration has let business run over the common man. My auntie in the 1950s said to me "don't vote Republican because they just get us in a war and start a depression". Prophetic or just life long observation it still holds true. We are in Iraq and now business page is talking about a real estate bubble. Here we are just like she said!

[unlawflcombatnt]

12. Cheap for the illegal employers only

Illegal immigrant labor is "cheap" for the employer only. The rest of us pay the price through lower wages, while social service expense increases outstrip taxes collected from illegal immigrants.

And the price reduction from cheap labor is a farce. A New York Times analysis suggests that the cost of a 40% increase in wages for farm workers would add only 2 cents to the dollar on the price of produce.

The author's right. It isn't cheap. It reduces the cost of labor to the employer only. The rest of us pay the "price" in reduced wages and increased costs for government social services.

unlawflcombatnt

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

___________
The economy needs balance between the "means of production" & "means of consumption."

[Elwood P Dowd]

16. Check out this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1992647

[LSK]

13. no sources no sources no sources

no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources no sources

[ComerPerro]

15. All Americans could have these "luxuries" if it weren't for

conservative economic policies and handouts to the rich.

Section 8 housing is no picnic, by the way.


But lower taxes for the poor and free health care? We can do that. We just WONT.

That's the bottom line.


Scapegoating, racist shit like this plays off the jealousy Americans feel for those who have things like health care, and redirects it towards illegals.