Free energy

[HannibalBarca]

has anyone seen this? I'm torn between jaded scepticism and a hope that the world energy scene can be revolutionised and best of all it may be done by my country men.

http://www.steorn.net/frontpage/default.aspx?p=1

Yahoo news link

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060818/sc_afp/irelandscienceenergy_060818141011

[William Seger]

1. 100% chance of scam

Buying an expensive ad in the Economist magazine is a pretty clear sign that they are fishing for investors, not scientists.

[HannibalBarca]

2. Why though

If the technology does not work there is nothing to invest in?

[William Seger]

4. You would think so, wouldn't you

People invest in these "free energy" scams without any proof that they work because they imagine they will make a fortune if they get in on it before everyone else.

[On the Road]

5. They Have a Background in THIS Noble Profession

The company has also provided forensic and expert witness services to British, Irish and international law enforcement agencies.

[MADem]

6. It would appear their main gig is preventing credit card theft

For many years Steorn has developed technology to help combat counterfeiting and fraud in the plastic card and optical disc industries.

Steorn is a word translating as 'to guide, direct and manage'.

The company has been instrumental in the development of core technologies that address counterfeit crime in areas such as plastic card fraud and optical disc fraud. The company has also provided forensic and expert witness services to British, Irish and international law enforcement agencies.

http://www.steorn.net/en/about.aspx?p=4

[LaurenG]

3. I hope it's true

this makes me a little nervous though, "Steorn’s technology appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy’, considered by many to be the most fundamental principle in our current understanding of the universe. This principle is stated simply as ‘energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form'.


edit: bold

[dalaigh lllama]

19. Yes, but that's yahoo's quote, not theirs

It's not the C.E.O. claiming they've created something from nothing, that's yahoo's interjection. based on their interpretation from interview notes. It'd be interesting to see what McCarthy would have said if they had simply asked him: "So, are you saying you're creating something from nothing?"

Here's a snip from the article:

"What we have developed is a way to construct magnetic fields so that when you travel round the magnetic fields, starting and stopping at the same position, you have gained energy," McCarthy said.

Saying energy is gained isn't the same as saying it's created from nothing.

"The energy isn't being converted from any other source such as the energy within the magnet. It's literally created. Once the technology operates it provides a constant stream of clean energy," he told Ireland's RTE radio.

A good interviewer would have asked for clarification of McCarthy's "It's literally created" statement, but I think the section I've highlighted might give the answer the interviewer didn't seek.

I'm not going to jump up and down hailing a new energy source just yet, but I'm also not ready to dismiss this out of hand based on an article in yahoo. Wonder if they've got anything in science journals? (And even that's another hot political potato sometimes.)

[whistle]

7. Sounds like these guys just came back from the Landmark Forum

<snip>
Steorn’s technology appears to violate the ‘Principle of the Conservation of Energy’, considered by many to be the most fundamental principle in our current understanding of the universe. This principle is stated simply as ‘energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form’.

Steorn is making three claims for its technology:

The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.
The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts.
There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).

The sum of these claims is that our technology creates free energy.
<end of snip>

So, where are the demonstrations? The website only has unsubstantiated claims and descriptions. If it sound too good to be true, then it probably isn't true.

[rosesaylavee]

8. Ok. Suppose that you and/or your team had

stumbled upon something, an energy force that could be used in this way. How would you go about getting it out into the world? I would put an ad in prominent papers and put a general call out for scientists to review and duplicate our efforts - same as what they are doing. Watched the video - they are right when they say that they are fighting the media, the scientific community and the energy community. That last group could be a deadly fight as billions/trillions of dollars are at stake here. Hope they are staying out of small aircraft...

I had read something about Blacklight last year and had been hoping to hear more... didn't save the article but thought if it were true, it would resurface again.

Signed up for the email updates out of curiousity and I do hope that they have found something viable!

[Hugin]

10. In this Y.O.Y.O. world created by greedy corporations and their minions.

I'd probably simply hook up my auto to use this new 'miraculous energy source' and
drive it around.

Word would spread quickly after I answered the first person who asked, "How come you
never buy gasoline and why've you cut the power lines to your house?" People would be
six deep begging me to hook them up. That is if this really existed. It doesn't.

Perpetual motion is a scam which typically emerges in times like these.

[rosesaylavee]

11. I would probably think so too but

Tesla had many inventions based on magnetics that were never passed on due to his enormous ego. I choose to keep my mind open on this one.

[William Seger]

12. While you're waiting....

... you can Google "magnet motor" and see how many of these things there have been since the 70s (at least, probably longer). I suppose there are a lot of open-minded people still waiting for the results on thos, too, but at some point you might start to suspect that the math that says the total magnetic gradient is zero, regardless of the geometry, is correct.

[rosesaylavee]

13. I did do something similar to that prior to my post

googling for info on Tesla's magnets. I know its a long shot. If it proves to be a hoax or a deadend, so be it. But one of these days, someone will happen upon the same sequence of events that Tesla uncovered and the results will be amazing.

I know I may be naive optimist... but I like me that way!

[madokie]

14. I like you that way too. it is the ones who are thinking outside of the

box who make the most important discoveries, important being the operative here.

[rosesaylavee]

22. Thanks madokie!

:hug:

I don't know about making any important discoveries personally. But, my mom always stressed the importance of curiousity. I liked her for giving me that bit of advice. So far, I haven't been hurt by it and it sure leads to interesting ideas and places!

[CanSocDem]

21. What people are forgetting...

...is that there is today a much more powerful lobby in charge of the "energy" business. Your government, your mass media, your scientific community; in fact your entire culture is based on the idea that "free energy" is a scam.

Since discovering "The Secret" I've had to conclude that even 'the church' is complicit.:D

Wilhelm Reich was also aware of "free energy". He ran afoul of the American government, was sent to prison where he died in the late 40's. His books were confiscated and burned though are available again.

[William Seger]

36. I don't think so

When Fleischmann and Pons thought they had discovered cold fusion, being scientists, they went public and "put a general call out for scientists to review and duplicate" their work -- BUT when they made the announcement they also said: here's our device, here's the data we're getting, here's how you can build your own device and see if you get the same results. There's a very BIG difference between that and what Steorn is doing, which is showboating with nothing but a promise that they'll have some evidence Real Soon Now. If they had something tangible to show that actually appeared to produce free energy, there's absolutely no reason why they would need to take out an ad in the Economist to make the announcement -- a press briefing that included the demo would be more than sufficient.

Now, if you were more business oriented than scientific, what you would probably do is keep the thing as quiet as possible until you had a commercial product ready for market, and when you were selling the things as fast as you could make them, you wouldn't much care about poopoo-head skeptics. For some reason, that's again very different from what Steorn is doing.

On the other hand, if you were a clever scammer, you might think of doing precisely what Steorn is doing to get lots of publicity without having to prove anything. Sure, eventually those scientists you're recruiting are going to come back and say "this is bullshit", but a whole lot of money could have changed hands by the time that happens.

(Edit sp.)

[rosesaylavee]

37. Good points.

Perhaps after (or if) their patent is approved, they will be more forthcoming - if it is not a scam.

[Hugin]

9. "If it's such a great thing how come everyone isn't already doing it?"

That quote about covers my feelings on the subject of cons and their artists.

[madokie]

15. maybe the same reason everybody wasn't already using a computer

before they were developed or telephones or hell about everything. sheeeze

[rman]

16. Computers and phones did exist before everyone started using them

Demonstrating a technology is possible before everyone starts using it.

[madokie]

18. what I'm saying before they were developed no one were using them

they didn't exist for the masses

[rman]

20. That's no reason why this particular technology could not be demonstrated

before it becomes available to the masses.

[hfojvt]

17. free energy?

What about Mumia?

Energy can take care of itself.
I like my energy captured and directed.

But if its series, then its hugh!!1!11!!

[CJCRANE]

23. Wouldn't capitalism collapse

if there was free energy?

Although I guess there's money to be made from selling the free energy motors.

[immoderate]

31. I'd think just the opposite.

Things that are dependent on energy now would boom. Would you take more trips if you didn't have to buy gas? Would goods be cheaper if energy was removed from the basic costs?

Everybody would want to buy a new free-energy vehicle. Could that help our auto industry? Etc., etc., etc.

--IMM

[immoderate]

24. Scams like this one are always around.

They even manage to get patents.

A sure sign is that they want money, not for production, but for promotion. If this existed, we would be back to the drawing board on every accepted scientific principle. I know this means nothing to those who don't understand physics, but it leads me to expound the true principle on which this "product" is based. One that everyone can understand, that "there's a sucker born every minute." The truth of that one is proved all the time.

The Tesla magnets, orgone boxes, water fueled engines will always be with us as long as there are those who can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

BTW, James Randi has some more info on this in his current commentary: http://randi.org/jr/2006-08/082506yet.html#i1 so it's eligible for the JREF prize. According to Randi, the company admits the device has never been tested. LOL.

--IMM

[rosesaylavee]

25. Thanks for the link

It was an interesting read from another point of view. I didn't get the impression though that they were looking for investors - tho that would make sense if this is a scam.

[immoderate]

26. Yeah, they're looking more for endorsements now...

so they can get investors.

--IMM

[boolean]

27. LOL!!!!!

I can't believe these stupid perpetual motion machine scams still exist.

[boolean]

28. The laws of thermodynamics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics

Read that. Then forget about this stupid scam.

[boolean]

29. FURTHERMORE:

If these guys actually developed an over unity device, they wouldn't be asking people to test and verify it. They would be mass producing and selling them like mad and be making billions of dollars.

[immoderate]

30. Not to mention laws of economics.

As you point out, the "build a better mousetrap" law applies here. CDs weren't suppressed by the vinyl industry, and i-pods weren't knocked out by the record business. Real technology will always come out because it makes money for people.

--IMM

[CanSocDem]

32. Really...???

"Real technology will always come out because it makes money for people."


Who is going to make money from "free energy"?????

[immoderate]

33. How many people will want to buy free energy cars?

The trick is to sell them for a profit. How about airplanes, (non-sail)boats, ATVs, motorcycles, lawn mowers, leaf blowers, air conditioners, and refrigerators? With free energy, new areas that haven't been thought of, will open up.

Unfortunately, we're talking about a scam here. But new technology always opens up opportunity.

--IMM

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. What A Waste Of A Website. Where's The Data? What Is The Output?

Ok, maybe they can create free energy. But how much in what amount of time? Hell, they have flashlights that you just simply shake a few times in order to work, but that is hardly of any real use to me in a revolutionary sense.

Until they reveal some numbers as to how much energy can be produced in how little time, the website is worthless to me.

[sendero]

35. There is plenty of free energy out there..

.. it just costs a lot of $$ to harness it.