Can you believe there is a party to the LEFT of the NDP in Canada.

[Swede]

The Greens were on CPAC all day today. I am a left leaning Liberal, and I love that we have the Greens.

[Wonk]

1. Do they pull many votes from the NDP and the Liberals?

Did they have anything to do with Harper and the Conservatives gaining power in the last Canadian federal election, do you think? Just wondering.

[Swede]

2. I never thought of that.

We need Greens,NDP and lefty Liberals to take back Ottawa.

[cyclezealot]

3. Canada does not have proportional Representation.?

I'd be careful. The NDP is green enough for me. Splintered voting is how the left lost to LePen in France.

[tocqueville]

4. it's one reason, not the main

if you are referring to the 2002 presidential election, fact is that the socialist party had made a disastrous campaign and was completely out of touch with the voters questions. Besides it was a two turns majority election, so proportionality is not relevant here.

[Selatius]

5. What went wrong with the socialists? Did they nominate a poor candidate?

Also, I had heard there were some issues in the party, especially over the EU Constitution. Was it true the leadership half-way supported it and the rank-and-file party members opposed it?

[cyclezealot]

6. Fr Socialist were split.

Most French Socialist leaders supported the new Constitution. THink it was the "Rocard' left that opposed it. Rocard obviosly won out. Others opposed to the new Constitution. The Le Pen people and the COmmunists. Strange mix. Of course that was after the 2002 presidential election. I disagree, I thought Prime Minister Jospin a solid, reasonable technocrat. I for one often have no problems with technocrats. Sure beats Bush style populists.

[Selatius]

8. BTW, do you like the current government over there?

What's the big topic of the day over there nowadays? The hot summer? The war? Etc.

[cyclezealot]

12. Biggest story this week is

the Popularity of Socialist member Segolene Royal. THe leading socialist woman candidate for president. Polls show her leading against the right. She spoke up at a rally in the Loire. She was mobbed. News reports said the scene was reminiscant of 'Trudeaumania' in Canada thirty years ago.
France just might elect it's first woman president next year?

[cyclezealot]

13. Even our right-centerist friends here

Talk about social conditions in the US. They think their government fairly responsive to their countries social needs.

[tocqueville]

9. OK some precisions

the two issues are completely separate as legal processes

1) the socialist presidential candidate Jospin (former PM) lost to Le Pen in the secound round of the presidential election 2002. The "normal" expected second round socialist/republican was thus disabled. The reason for that is not PRIMARILY to be found in the many left-wing candidates in the first round, but because Jospin had a disastrous campaign not taking account of the security problems in some parts of France. He made excuses about that as recently as yesterday.

2) the 2005 referendum about the European constitution was formally supported by a "yes" vote after a socialist congress. But short after one of the main socialist leaders Fabius went into a no-campaign for pure electoralist purposes. Rocard doesn't play a role in the socialist party for many years now and supported the yes. The results were that the MAJORITY of the socialist voters voted no in an alliance with the extreme left and involuntarily with the Le Pen right wingers and the de Villiers catholic fundies. The yes-socialists were completely isolated in that process.

3) the votes of active party members in France play a little role, since the parties are not mass parties. The two biggest parties have each round 150 000 members and there are 30 millions potential voters in France. The winning no-vote to the referendum (no) was PRIMARILY due to the disapproval of Chirac's internal policies and the fear that "foreigners" would take French jobs in a market plagued by unemployment (the myth of the "Polish plumber"). It's a common phenomenon which is current in countries that uses referendum such as the Scandinavian countries. Voters don't answer the question, but send a message of disapproval to the sitting government. That's why countries like Norway, Denmark and Sweden have said no to obvious good deals like membership in the EU in the Norwegian case - or membership in the Eurozone like the two others. Then when the consequences show up, they go and complain about "being left out". Referendums are banned in some countries like Germany and I think it is a good thing.

[tocqueville]

10. see post above n/t

[liberaldemocrat7]

7. Didn't the NDP form a government with the conservatives?

The conservatives did not have enough seats to form a government.

[cyclezealot]

11. The NDP voted for a no confidence vote for the former

liberal government. I suspect they have way too many differences with the Tories to go into coalition.?
Harper a right winger with a socialist party? Can't imagine that.