What should be the penality for impersonating a veteran be?

[DanCa]

I just wrote to my Senators Durbin and Obama about the growing problem of Republican's pretending to be military personell. I am not only talking about the kids that 'pose' as veterans on the internet as military heroes but also about the ones that show up at protest and playing vet dress up. IMO the GOP should worry more about this disgrace than flag burning. Anyway I was wondering how DU felt about this and which of the following would be an appropriate sentance in dealling with these frauds.

Do you think that fake veterans should be punished with

A: Jail TIme
B: Mandatory Service in a War Zone
c: Being forced to spend time at the VA and help the real vets who have been actually injured or disabled because of a war.
D: Having your ass kicked by an actual veteran.

Thanks everyone, Danny.

[Protagoras]

1. having your ass kicked

by actual veterans. Does that fall under C?

Though B doesn't sound too bad either.

[DanCa]

3. I ll edit it.

I like that option best.

[stepnw1f]

50. I Kinda Like Your Idea

I think some form of public scrutiny should be imposed on people abusing a veteran's identity.

[lpbk2713]

2. "Down on your face and give me twenty, maggot!'

[ThomWV]

4. Manditory 4 Year Enlistment

They want to say they've been in, put them in.

[Karenina]

45. Too harsh...

I'd go for mandatory boot camp though! :evilgrin:

[uppityperson]

5. A and C for sure, probably can't do B or D, but can see the draw.

[SeattleGirl]

6. How about all of the above?

These people are disgusting. :puke:

[DanCa]

7. Hi Seattle Girl.

:hi: Do you know what's funny? Do a google search on fake vets and Free Republic is the first hit. I wonder why?

[SeattleGirl]

24. No surprise there.

So many of them are all talk, no walk.

[DanCa]

26. Lol and poor talk at that.

Everything on Free Republic seems to be written by a five year old.

[mike_c]

8. I hope you're not serious....

I mean, posers don't deserve respect, but as long as no one is harmed (i.e. fraud) then folks in a free country are generally free to dress up and pretend to be whatever they want. Impersonating an authority-- e.g. a cop-- is one thing, but how does pretending to be a military veteran online differ from say, pretending to be a wizard or a barbarian dragon slayer? Or a basketball player? Or whatever? Anyone is free to wear surplus or commercial BDUs if they want. In any case it's the responsibility of listeners and respondants to judge the credibility of others, and you can always inquire politely about credentials.

on edit-- fair disclosure: I am not Che Guevara....

[DanCa]

10. No one harmed?

What about the people who've lost life and limb in order to protect this country? Its a slap in the face of all the people who have served.
I couldn't be more serious, in fact I am deadly serious.

[mike_c]

19. then I will respectfully disagree with you...

Lack of respect, as you define it, is not "harm." Being an ex-soldier is just another occupation-- should it be illegal to impersonate a bricklayer, or a plumber? Or how about this-- it is clearly illegal to practice medicine without a license, but should it be illegal to wear scrubs and carry a stethoscope around your neck? Likewise, I'd say that "impersonating a vet" for the purposes of obtaining services is fraud, and is already illegal, but dressing in BDUs is not and should not be illegal. Representing one's self as a vet online is disrespectful at worst, but not harmful unless someone uses that authority to commit harm otherwise.

I mean, it's not nice to tell lies, but how much freedom are you willing to give up in support of being nice?

[DanCa]

25. I wonder how Max Cleland feels

everytime one of these kids plays internet dress up and uses their pretend status as a veteran to insult him and say he got drunk and tripped on a land mine. Is their no harm in that?

[mike_c]

30. no there isn't-- it's DISRESPECTFUL, not harmful....

Do you always advocate jailing people when they hurt someone's feelings?

on edit-- As Warren Stupidity points out below, pretending to be a vet without otherwise committing a crime is, like lots of other forms of disrespect, protected free speech. I don't march with swastikas either, but I don't advocate throwing people in jail for it, no matter how odious I might find it.

[DanCa]

31. Whats your definition of harmful? (nt)

[mike_c]

46. oh my-- that's way too open ended a question....

I mean, that's an ethics dissertation at the very least! I'll just reiterate my position that dressing up as something you're not isn't implicitly harmful-- unless done in the commission of a crime-- let's make sure that exception is clear. More to the point, disrespecting someone's former job, or their service, or however you want to view it isn't particularly nice, but it's protected free speech. It takes a lot more than the threat of hurting Max Cleland's feelings to justify taking away basic rights, IMO.

[DanCa]

49. I think tarnishing a mans rep and taking away his dignity is harmful.

Especially if said man has only one limb remainning.

[mike_c]

57. so you'll agree that calling Bush a lying piece of shit is "harmful...."

Or calling him a deserter. Or whatever. Look, I agree with you that being disrespectful is nasty and shows a distinct lack of class at the very least. But I won't advocate taking away people's right to free speech even when it means they'll occasionally say ugly things, or throwing them in jail for posing.

[DanCa]

60. President Bush skipped out on the gaurd.

Giving him the status of a veteran is the same given the status of paris hilton or bruce willis record deals. I am talking about people that earned the title of a veteran.

[MADem]

32. It is against the law for nonmilitary personnel to wear military uniforms

http://www.usagbenelux.eur.army.mil/sites/installation/docs/legal/Prohibited%20Wear%20of%20Military%20Uniform.doc


b. Wear of the uniform by non-military personnel.
(1) Pursuant to 10 U.S.C. §771, and enforced by criminal sanctions under 18 U.S.C. § 702, no person, unless otherwise authorized by law, may wear the uniform or a distinctive part of the uniform of the U.S. Army; or any device which is similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of the U.S. Army.
(a) This extends to soldiers in civilian clothes. Distinctive parts of the uniform may only be worn with civilian clothes when specifically authorized by AR 670-1, Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia (1 July 2002).
(b) The power to define an authorized uniform has been delegated through the President to the Secretary of the Army.
(2) Unauthorized personnel may not possess or wear distinctive uniform items. Those items include:
(a) All Army headgear when worn with insignia;
(b) Badges and tabs displaying identification, combat, marksmanship, and special skill;
(c) Uniform buttons of the U.S. Army or Corps of Engineers;
(d) Decorations, service medals, service and training ribbons, and other awards and their appurtenances;
(e) Insignia of any design or color the Army has adopted.
(3) Pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 772(f), actors in a legitimate theatrical production may wear military uniforms.
(4) Requests for use of DoD uniforms and insignia in commercial advertising and promotions will be referred to Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs.

[DanCa]

37. Thank you MaDem (hug) (nt)

[MADem]

39. Any time. NT

[Warren Stupidity]

41. Right - so its a fake uniform instead.

Or has the insignias removed as did all the crap army/navy stores used to sell way back when I was a lad.

[DanCa]

44. Your taking this awfully personally (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

48. Meaning what?

[DanCa]

52. Meanning

That your thinking that this thread is about you.

[MADem]

59. Why would anybody but a douchebag do such a thing?

Like this guy: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/wkcarlson-imposter.htm

And in OK, it's a crime, even if you fake the outfit, if you intend to deceive:
http://www.lsb.state.ok.us/house/news7585.html

The bill was filed after a high-profile case in Oklahoma tied to the collapse of a bridge near Webbers Falls.

James Payne arrived at the site of the bridge collapse, threw on military fatigues and claimed to be an Army captain. Clark reportedly told rescue workers he was in charge of efforts to recover vehicles and bodies from the river following the disaster. Payne was sentenced in 2003 to six years in federal prison for his deception.

Senate Bill 777 will implement a wide range of new penalties.

Individuals who “knowingly” impersonate a veteran or member of the military with “intent to deceive” through “wearing any decoration or medal authorized by the Congress of the United States for the Armed Forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation,” would be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $100 or imprisonment in jail for up to six months or both.

If an individual impersonates a member of the military by wearing a Congressional Medal of Honor, the offender will be guilty of a felony under the bill’s provisions and could face a fine of up to $5,000 and/or one year in county jail.

If a person presents “any falsified or altered document as proof of service or authorization for decoration or medal” that individual would be guilty of a felony and would face a fine of up to $5,000 and up to one year in jail.

Anyone who wears a military uniform with the intent to deceive would be guilty of a misdemeanor and face a $1,000 fine and/or one year in county jail.

And then, there's this: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_460360.html

A bill -- the Stolen Valor Act -- making its way through Congress would increase the penalties for imposters and help prosecutors go after phonies.

The bill, introduced last year by Democratic Rep. John Salazar, of Colorado, picked up 127 co-sponsors. A Senate version of the bill got support on June 14 from Philadelphia Republican Arlen Specter, whose support insiders say virtually guarantees the bill will make it out of the Senate judiciary committee he chairs. Salazar has said he expects the bill to move through Congress before the session ends in October.

"I feel people should be punished," Gancas said. "There are people out there who paid a price to wear those medals on their chest."

Falsely claiming to be in the military or to have earned a medal is a misdemeanor under current law. Imposters can be charged only if they've worn medals or insignia they didn't earn. The penalty is a jail term of up to six months, a fine or both.

new legislation would make the crime a felony and enable prosecutors to charge imposters for simply claiming -- verbally or in writing -- a rank or medals they didn't earn. Under the Stolen Valor Act, falsely claiming to have received the Navy Cross, Air Force Cross, Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star or Purple Heart would double the maximum penalty to up to a year in prison, bringing those medals in line with the Medal of Honor.

[DanCa]

63. Why anyone would defend them boggles my mind. (nt)

[mike_c]

79. I defend them for the same reason that the ACLU defends...

...the KKK's right to march. The most odious forms of speech are the ones that most need protection.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. Sure of course but douchebag ought to not be against the law.

And I ain't arguing about the fraud part. We already have laws for that.

[MADem]

74. Well, odds are, come OCT, it will be.

At least when it comes to idiots claiming to be war heroes, and bullying their way around bragging about fake exploits.

I find it offensive in the extreme. And I'm retired, I don't feel the need to relive my career, dress up in my uniforms, display my medals, or scatter my memorabilia throughout my house. That said, if you haven't walked the walk, you shouldn't talk the talk.

[mike_c]

53. well, what would you call the things on sale here...?

http://www.workinggear.com/gc/customer/home.php?cat=624&ROITrakid=367

http://www.american-armynavy.com/bduuniforms.htm

http://www.uscav.com/Category.aspx?CatID=3&TabID=1

And DOZENS more-- a simple google search will turn up MANY MORE. The point is that it is quite easy to misrepresent one's self without violating the law-- the clothing I've linked is mil-spec without being actual issue. It is not illegal to wear them, and one could argue that any real vet would spot the difference if they looked (different buttons, no patches, etc).

[DanCa]

58. Are we talking about people who like to look at medals

and collect them or want to say that they earned medals and recived injuries just to pick up chicks?

[mike_c]

62. dude, misrepresenting yourself to "pick up chicks" is not a crime...

...despite being in bad taste. Look, we're not arguing about whether or not anyone should do this-- I agree with you that it's inexcusable. But I won't advocate criminalizing speech simply because it's disrespectful, or dishonest, or whatever. That is the route to precisely the sort of totalitarian society that those vets risked their lives in service of preventing.

[DanCa]

71. on free speech only - just too clarify your position on this

I am just trying to clarify do you think that when people use racist slurs is okay? Do you think that christians have the right to say merry christmas on a religious holiday? Do you think it's okay to yell fire in public? Are there any lines that you draw? Because quite frankly I do and this is one of them. Yeah I might be a hypocrite when it comes to free speech but I will be the first to admit.

I don't see this as a free speech issue btw, I see it as an attempt to demean the service of soldiers, while using the status of a soldier too elevate your political views.

For example I believe we have a lot of freeper types on DU that use a fake vet status and say the support Gen Wes Clark as a means as to disenfranchise his base. A few will say that clark is a great guy and than in the same breath trash everyone elses candidats as a means to turn them against clark. Ir's not frackin right.

[mike_c]

78. look, you're not discussing this honestly or civilly....

I mean, trying to steer me into saying that I think racist slurs are "OK!" Come on. In the first place, we're not talking about racism in this thread.

But this needs to be said. No, I do not think racist speech is OK. I think it sucks. But I also support anyones' right to be an asshole, and if someone wants to wear a bedsheet and insult other races or ethnicities I support their right to do that. I don't give a rat's buttocks what christians call their holidays, but I fully support their right to call them whatever they want. And so on. Free speech means free speech-- and as has been said many times, it is precisely the least appealing varieties that need the most protection.

[DanCa]

80. Let's be honest and civil :D

I am being very honest and civl now. I think that this isn't a free speech issue. It's about the right thing to do. And I think it's wrong for kids to pretend to earn medals that they didn't deserve. It's a slap in the face to all those who did. It's all just a trick to gain internet status and trash honorable men who served. It's just not right..

[MADem]

76. The fake earners are the targets here NT

[MADem]

69. And if the Stolen Valor bill passes, the minute anyone wearing those

"costumes" tries to suggest that they are affiliated with the Armed Forces, they're in hot water. The minute they affix any insignia, they've got trouble.

False Claims About Receipt of Military Medals- Whoever falsely represents himself or herself, verbally or in writing, to have been awarded any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.' http://www.homeofheroes.com/herobill/hr3352.html

Like I said, who but a douchebag would do such a thing?

http://www.homeofheroes.com/herobill/index.html

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/StolenValor/

[mike_c]

73. of course....

But I still don't support the Stolen Valor bill for many of the reasons I've discussed here-- PLUS I think societies that venerate their military too much are on a slippery trajectory toward facism. There are clear reasons why it should be illegal to impersonate an active duty soldier. And while I agree with you that "douchebag" is a reasonable characterization for anyone who misrepresents their service, being a douchebag should not be something we lock people up for.

[MADem]

81. It's not "veneration" -- it's simple acknowledgement of sacrifice

on behalf of the nation. It's not letting people who didn't make the sacrifice falsely claim that they did. It's simple respect.

I suppose my perspective is colored by the fact that I served. But as I've said, I find it offensive in the extreme when some asshole like this



tries to pretend that he's a guy like this:

[mike_c]

85. oh I agree completely-- I just disagree with the OP's suggestion...

...that being a dirtbag is sufficient reason for throwing people in jail or otherwise punishing them. Sometimes just being themselves is punishment enough-- but kidding aside, it is precisely that sort of offensive speech that most needs protection.

[progdonkey]

67. veterans actually exist...

I'm not being facetious in my subject line; there is a clear distinction between saying "I am a veteran" or "I served in Vietnam" and "I'm a 10th Level Paladin," as there are people who are actually veterans and have served in Vietnam (for example) but there are no real 10th Level Paladins. That is, the first two statements come with the implication that the person is making a factual statement and isn't referring to a video game, whereas the second is clearly referring to a computer game/RPG.

I can just load up Call of Duty 2 and "fight" through WWII, and I could play the part of a "veteran," but if I met someone on the street and said, "I'm a veteran," the last thing the person would think would be, "Oh, you just finished Call of Duty 2?" He'd think I actually served in the military, and look on me with the respect accorded veterans. Now, if I told him, "I just got back after fighting the demons of Hell in a space station on Mars," the same person would not think I was being serious and would naturally assume I was referring to Doom and just being facetious.

And being in the military is not "just another job, like bricklayer." The military is not only an inherently dangerous job, but one of public service as well. It is on par with firefighters, police, etc. These people (from firefighters through the military) are willing to die to keep you safe (such a statement has unfortunately become quite an empty platitude due to the abuse by RWers, but it is true nonetheless); the same cannot be said for 95% of other jobs.

This is why we even have a word such as "veteran" for former military, police, firemen, etc: it's not the same as being, say, a retired baker. There's an inherent, deserved respect for the dangerous public service that that person performed, and those who impersonate veterans are attempting to receive undeservedly some of that respect. In fact, it's rare that someone impersonates a veteran for monetary interest (it's hard enough for real veterans to get money out of the VA, for instance), as most fake veterans due so in order to be seen as greater in the eyes of the people around them. He's the guy who goes around wearing a SEAL T-Shirt or with a Spec-Ops tatoo, talking about his wonderful exploits as a SEAL--especially that one time where he was the only survivor of his entire crew. He doesn't want money, he wants respect that he never earned, and it's a respect that is garnered only through putting your life on the line, so he is not only lying to the people around him, but insulting the memories of those who died (and insulting the respect due actual veterans).

So while I wouldn't have a problem fining them or conscripting them into the Marines (or sending them through BUD/S training over and over until they either die or actually manage to become SEALs), the easiest, quickest, and perhaps most effective way of dealing with these assholes is to just hold them up to public humiliation--let it be known far and wide that this person pretended to be a veteran (it doesn't have to be so extreme as pretending to be a SEAL, but that's a common one) and watch his life disintegrate as the people who believed him abandon him.

[MADem]

83. Jesus Christ in a canoe!!!

That BUDS training idea is incredibly cruel...I kinda like it!

A step beyond this form of punishment:
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articles/2006/07/07/news/news02.txt
A Whitefish man was sentenced Thursday to spend 50 hours wearing a sandwich board with the words, “I am a liar. I am not a Marine. I have never served my country.”

Chief U.S. District Judge Donald Molloy in Missoula also sentenced William Horvath to four months of house arrest for making a false statement.


Horvath, 36, was convicted of making a false statement — a felony.

According to court documents, in 2001 he told a probation officer that he served time in the U.S. Marine Corps. The probation officer was gathering information on Horvath on a prior charge of being a fugitive in possession of firearms or ammunition.

[progdonkey]

87. I like that judge... :-)

I'm normally very hostile to humiliation as a form of punishment, since it just seems degrading and mean to me when used as a general punishment (for instance, if the guy's a litterbug or something, and the judge sentenced him to the sandwich board with "I'm too stupid to use a trash can," it's just unfair that this one litterbug suffers humiliation because he got the draconian judge, whereas 99% of other litterbugs would've just gotten a fine).

HOWEVER... ;-)

When the goal of the crime itself is to be exalted in the eyes of your peers, it makes perfect sense that the punishment should be to be degraded before your peers. If someone goes around fraudulently calling himself a Marine, he should then be forced to go around telling everyone he pretended to be a Marine because he's a pathetic POS.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. Its not a crime unless there is fraud involved.

Putting on a uniform and pretending to be a veteran might be shameful, and might deserve (D) under some circumstances, but unless you are applying for benefits or otherwise committing actual fraud it is just stupid people tricks.

Playing dress up vet is protected speech.

(Wait, I'll go nuke some popcorn.)

[DanCa]

13. Spend some time at the VA

Then get back to me.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Meaning what exactly?

- that it is insulting to real veterans? Ok. Being insulting is not a crime. Should we criminalize all insulting behavior?

[DanCa]

23. Meanning

before you abuse criticize and confuse walk a mile in their shows.
Asks the veterans at the va how they feel about scum suckers impersonating them.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. That is not the point.

Your feelings getting hurt is not a good reason for some more trampling of the first amendment. I suppose you support flag desecration laws as well, right?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JHB]

14. They don't need to be prosecuted, just "outed".

n/t

[MADem]

35. No, it is against the law--see post above NT

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Only if it is an 'approved uniform'.

The op was not making the narrow argument you are making here.

[MADem]

84. In which case, it isn't a uniform. It's a costume, And you can tell

the difference.

And without insignia, it's just crappy work clothes, anyway.

[Sapphocrat]

11. Currently...

...such frauds grow up to be President and Vice President.

[lpbk2713]

17. .... or RW talk show hosts.

[JHB]

12. Do you have a list of these people...

...and clear evidence that the claims they're making are false?

See if you can organize a website to publicly list them, their claims, and the evidence against them:

www.republicanfakevets.com or something

[DanCa]

16. Actually there are several websites all ready.

Thats what gave me the idea for the op.

[haele]

15. Already a felony if the person is using it for personal gain...

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies5.htm

MISSOULA, Mont. (AP) — A man who lied to his probation officer about having served in the military was ordered to stand outside the courthouse wearing a sandwich board that says: "I am a liar. I am not a Marine."

William C. Horvath, 35, of Whitefish, pleaded guilty to making false statements, a felony.

.......

According to a news release from the U.S. attorney's office, Horvath claimed during an interview with a probation officer on Aug. 9, 2001, that he had served in the Marine Corps. The officer was gathering information on Horvath on a prior charge of being a fugitive in possession of firearms or ammunition.

The probation officer then attempted to verify Horvath's military service, but was told by the Marine Corps that there was no record of Horvath ever having served.

There's some other cases at that link - one person getting six month's probation for pretending to be a recruiter for whatever reason, another getting time for swindling his employer claiming he was a reservist to get paid time off, etc...

If you see someone pretending, just inform them that if they're actually claiming to be a vet instead of just playing dress-up - which is legal, it's a felony.

:)

Haele

[DanCa]

21. Hmm what's the definition of personal gain?

Is personal gain just a monetary thing or can it be applied to kids who want to increase their rep on the net?

[Warren Stupidity]

22. It has to be fraud.

[Rex]

18. Same as impersonating a cop

whatever the law says about a cop should apply to a vet IMO.

[mike_c]

28. a vet is an ex-soldier....

It should be illegal to impersonate a cop because that allows for abuse of authority, exercise of authority by people without proper training, and so on, and it is likewise illegal to impersonate a soldier, for much the same reasons. But it is NOT illegal in itself to represent one's self as an ex-cop unless you do it to commit fraud or some other offense. But simply saying you were once a cop, or once a soldier, is not and should not be illegal. It's our responsibility to judge the credibility of others' self-representation, and while liars deserve to lose our respect, they don't deserve jail for role-playing.

[DanCa]

33. So I guess its okay for adults to role play as kids on my space? (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

36. So dressing up as a soldier is equivalent to pedophilia?

Is that your point?

[DanCa]

38. No ones getting harmed are they

IMO you should be for it.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. In fact pretending to be 12 is not against the law.

Using that pose to entice children into sex is against the law. But you are quite shameless in your argument here and you know it.

Should shameless arguments be against the law?

[DanCa]

51. I am shameless but a vetran poser is not?

Funny how your all for free speech but you want to shoot my arguements down.

[mike_c]

68. 'bro, this is getting a bit ridiculous....

Let's agree that it is equally "shameless" to pretend to be a child-- without being a pedophile because that's a very separate issue and clearly illegal-- and to pretend to be a veteran. OK? They're both "shameless." They're both dishonest. They're both disrespectful. But they're also both free speech.

[DanCa]

72. I don't see this as free speech issue

But your right my arguement about my space was off topic. And for that I appologize

[MADem]

27. I like A, and C, and a fine as well

The C requirement ought to include bedpan duty, and lots of it.

[TahitiNut]

29. It's a very perplexing and appalling behavior, imho.

After coming 'home' from Nam in late 69, I deep-sixed virtually everything that reminded me of being in the military. My foot-locker stayed under the basement stairs of my mother's house (my "home of record") for about 10 years before it was thrown out, unopened from the time it was delivered there from Nam. During the 70s, I - like quite a few vets - avoided being identified as a vet, particularly since it was seen by many like being a leper. In the 80s, I became aware there were many guys who pretended to be Viet Nam veterans. I really couldn't understand it. It's sick.

I think a person has to have some serious mental problems to pretend such a thing. There's something psychotic about it, imho.

I think 'C' might be an appropriate "learning experience" - but I'd hesitate to inflict such people on real veterans in need of care and support.

[Pavulon]

40. Clarify

Do you mean some asshole at a bar saying "when I was in delta..." or someone trying to get va status.

The first is an ass kicking, the second is fraud, and is illegal.

Pretty shitty thing to do.

[DanCa]

54. A poser is as a poser does.

My main reason is that people using their fake status as a vet to take down and tear apart other vets.

[Pavulon]

82. yeah

that is shitty. Not illegal but unless there is a crime the best thing is to expose them.

There are websites that let you list people by name who do this.

[Hubert Flottz]

55. All of the above plus their first born should do three tours in Iraq.

[Wilber_Stool]

56. How about a scarlet V

Make them wear it for a year. Maybe a tatoo on the forehead.

[DanCa]

61. Lol.

I don't know if your being ficticious or not but I like that idea. I like that idea.

[Wilber_Stool]

65. Well, maybe the tatoo but

they want to put DUIs on license plates, why not this?

[stepnw1f]

66. I Say We Force These Individuals to Attend

a VA hospital where they must tell every veteran there, as to how and why they used a veteran's identity for personal gain.

[Hubert Flottz]

70. "for personal gain"

Or to help Bush sell a criminal war in Iraq!

[stepnw1f]

75. That Too

But with these people, it's always for personal gain.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. I'm a vet and anybody dumb enough to want to wear a uniform

when they don't have to, is too stupid to worry about.

[FILAM23]

86. Playing vet dress up, claiming to be a vet on an internet chat room

or tryng to impress someone in a bar are not crimes
and nothing should be done other then they should be scorned.
However posing as a vet to obtain benefits, wearing insignia
and medals not earned, etc are already against the law.