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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:35 AM
Original message
Cheney Is Chief-While Bush Plays Role Of The Queen Of England-Boston Globe

The Cheney presidency
By Robert Kuttner | August 26, 2006

GEORGE W. BUSH has been faulted in some quarters for taking an extended vacation while the Middle East festers. It doesn't much matter; the man running the country is Vice President Dick Cheney.

When historians look back on the multiple assaults on our constitutional system of government in this era, Cheney's unprecedented role will come in for overdue notice. Cheney's shotgun mishap, when he accidentally sprayed his host with birdshot, has gotten more media attention than has his control of the government.

..........................

If Cheney were the actual president, not just the de facto one, he simply could not govern with the same set of policies and approval ratings of 20 percent. The media focuses relentless attention on the president, on the premise that he is actually the chief executive. But for all intents and purposes, Cheney is chief, and Bush is more in the ceremonial role of the queen of England.

Yet the press buys the pretense of Bush being ``the decider," and relentlessly covers Bush -- meeting with world leaders, cutting brush, holding press conferences, while Cheney works in secret, largely undisturbed. So let's take half the members of the overblown White House press corps, which has almost nothing to do anyway, and send them over to Cheney Boot Camp for Reporters. They might learn how to be journalists again, and we might learn who is running the government.

more at:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/08/26/the_cheney_presidency/
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. This Absolutly Requires Top Billing - Kick and kick and kick.
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. The Chimp in a ceremonial role...yecch!
But Cheney exercising the real power is even worse. Excellent article; thanks for posting.
:kick:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Queens of England are not known to have been or to be
psychopaths. Bush should BE as brilliant as EI; as compassionate as V; as admired as E2.
Oh, okay; I'll give him Bloody Mary.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. E2 and her sis...
....worked in the ambulance services in London during the Second (V1 and V2) Blitz. That's more action and more danger than Junta Boy ever saw keeping the skies of Texas free from the Mexican Air Force.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Good point!
I read that Elizabeth, the current Queen, also served as a mechanic during WW11.
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. a real one - or a ceremonial one?
i never heard that. then again i have little interest in english 'royalty'.

still, if true, if she spent more than an hour posing for photos or something, well good on her.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
34. She trained as a driver and a mechanic
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. Don't be so hard on bush's TANG service.
He was fighting them in Texas so he didn't have to fight them in Vietnam.

:sarcasm:
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. Now THAT'S funny
Can anyone photoshop DUHbya in the Queen's outfit?

News and commentary, left to right
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. He probably has his own. In the closet.
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #28
64. Steve Bell does a nice rendering...
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. Very nice.
No joke.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
59. "We shall fight them on the bar stool! We shall fight them in the cat-...
... houses! And dang-nabbit, we'll fight them under Poppy's protective umbrella of influence! GWB, a Churchillian reprise.




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IthinkThereforeIAM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. Is anyone surprised...

...? :kick:
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hell yes, K&R this.
This article should be the talk of the blogosphere for a week.

From the article:
Cheney has planted aides in major Cabinet departments, often over the objection of a Cabinet secretary, to make sure his policies are carried out. He sits in on the Senate Republican caucus, to stamp out any rebellions. Cheney loyalists from the Office of the Vice President dominate interagency planning meetings.

The Iraq war is the work of Cheney and Rumsfeld. The capture of the career civil service is pure Cheney. The disciplining of Congress is the work of Cheney and Rove. The turning over of energy policy to the oil companies is Cheney. The extreme secrecy is Cheney and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.


And he might add, the domestic spying policy is Cheney and Gonzales, the torture and Gitmo policy is Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Gonzales.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
55. It's scary, isn't it?
It's disturbing to think that our president is a figurehead like the Queen of England, but it's downright scary to think America is being governed by a dictator like Cheney.

We have to put pressure on our democratic Congress and Senators to stamp out election fraud. :patriot:
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not original, but well said anyway
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. The author is right that Cheney needs more attention.
I think if Cheney were impeached or forced to resign, a lot of evil will be prevented.

Everyone's talking about firing Rummy, where are the calls to fire Cheney? Isn't it about time?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The MSM knows they can't put Cheney front and center


They keep him hidden for a reason. "Good ole boy" Bush* can blabber and stutter and be the fool and take the heat for the Extreme RW policies which Cheney puts in place.

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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. Kerry said it during the 2004 campaign
when Bush derided Kerry's choice of John Edwards for VP by saying the difference between Edwards and Cheney was that Dick could be President, Kerry's initial reaction on hearing this was more or less: "that's the problem, Cheney has been president since the day they took office".
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
11. Remember back in the Dan Quayle days when it was the vice president
who made the social gaffes and the president read the intelligence and made his own decisions WITHOUT advisors telling him what to do?
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Or when we had a competent President and Vice President who
worked as an effective team? clinton/gore
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. sigh.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
:kick:
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. K&R: great points n/t
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. well, we knew he liked to play dress-up
:bounce:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bush is still being a cheerleader
Cheerleader-in-chief and head PR man. And this is why Rummy's still there-- Bush doesn't dare break up the Cheney-Rummy cabal.

I also suspect that Poppy Bush is far more involved than anyone suspects. Maybe not even his son!

:scared:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #15
60. I agree about poopy bush*
He was involved in much of the ground work layed for the cabal to put into overdrive.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
16. John Dean brings this up in his latest book.
We all suspected from the start that it would be Cheney calling the shots.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. A Picture is worth a thousand words
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. wow, what an image
holy moley. Thanks for posting, although it scares the hell out of me.
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. That is an AWESOME picture nt
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. I love this!!!!
Every college kid should have that in her/his dorm room!
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
53. Definitely one for the art historians! Thanks for posting. nt
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
63. F*cking A! Copied. n/t
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
71. It certainly is.
Gulp. :scared: Thanks for posting, I think.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
23. Queen George.
How fitting.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. If George Is a Queen, Does Laura Know?
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I think that's why Pickles spends so much time away.
A more important question is, does his base know? ;-)

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
24. Wow - The Boston Globe actually printed something accurate.
from a columnist. The Mitt Romney cheerleader, Joan Vennochi, must be on vacation.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Great read
It's over for these goons. People are late but they're waking up.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. That's Copresident Cheney, to you.
Not much else to say.
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Marrak Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. The "cluster-f**k" in Iraq
And the CPA's cupability from the beginning, saturated with "political-appointees" who couldn't find their asses with both hands...love to see an exposee on that. An org chart with names? Who were these assholes?


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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. Some interesting stuff in this 2004 Rolling Stone piece
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/6450422/the_curse_of_dick_cheney/

Nixon's resignation opened the way for Cheney's first truly astonishing inside move up. When Gerald Ford succeeded to the presidency, he needed experienced loyalists by his side who were untainted by the Nixon scandal, so he named Rumsfeld his chief of staff. Rumsfeld brought Cheney right along with him into the Oval Office.

The period between August 1974 and November 1976, when Ford lost the election to Jimmy Carter, is essential to understanding George W. Bush's disastrous misjudgments -- and Dick Cheney's role in them. In both cases, Cheney and Rumsfeld played the key role in turning opportunity into chaos. Ford, like Bush later, hadn't been elected president. As he entered office, he was overshadowed by a secretary of state (Kissinger then, Powell later) who was considered incontestably his better. Ford was caught as flat-footed by the fall of Saigon in April 1975 as Bush was by the September 2001 attacks. A better president, with more astute advisers, might have arranged a more orderly ending to the long and divisive war. But instead of heeding the country's desire for honesty and reconciliation, Rumsfeld and Cheney convinced Ford that the way to turn himself into a real president was to stir up crises in international relations while lurching to the right in domestic politics.

Having turned Ford into their instrument, Rumsfeld and Cheney staged a palace coup. They pushed Ford to fire Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, tell Vice President Nelson Rockefeller to look for another job and remove Henry Kissinger from his post as national security adviser. Rumsfeld was named secretary of defense, and Cheney became chief of staff to the president. The Yale dropout and draft dodger was, at the age of thirty-four, the second-most-powerful man in the White House.

As the 1976 election approached, Rumsfeld and Cheney used the immense powers they had arrogated to themselves to persuade Ford to scuttle the Salt II treaty on nuclear-arms control. The move helped Ford turn back Reagan's challenge for the party's nomination -- but at the cost of ceding the heart of the GOP to the New Right. Then, in the presidential election, Jimmy Carter defeated Ford by 2 million votes.

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. LOL. Your title reminded me of this:
Great article.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. Cheney's in charge that's for damn sure! * is his Mini-Me.
:puke:
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
35. This is the most important issue we are facing now.
I wish the article had touched on Cheney's mind-blowing incompetence, poor judgment and dishonesty. He has been wrong in every single statement about Iraq (and in every statement about any of those statements), but his wrongness goes back much farther than that, as the Rolling Stone article made clear. Like Bush, everything he has ever been involved with has gone horribly wrong.

How in the name of God did we end up with these two in charge? How exciting it is to be living through this anomaly in American history.
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
37. I knew I saw that tiny, flapping hand wave somewhere before
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. Once a 'queen' always a 'queen'
Cheney's middle east strategy isn't very good is it?
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threadkillaz Donating Member (453 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. Pay no attention..
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
40. One of the MANY reasons this particular (p)residency really pushes my
buttons is that it's passive/aggressive behavior on a huge, and damaging, scale. No one in the media really criticizes *, 'cos after all, he's just a regular guy tryin' his best. The real author of this disastrous (p)residency can't be openly criticized because he's "not the president." This has been freaking me out for years. With this arrangement, NO ONE is held accountable.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. From Cheerleader To Queen
Come to think of it, the roles are very similar.

I liked the closing: "(journalists) might learn how to be journalists again". Being stenographers certainly hasn't served the country well so that has to change.

While I think the article is right on for the most part I think it does overlook the extreme stubborn nature of Bush so while the vision belongs to Cheney some of the tactical errors belong to Bush. Katrina comes to mind in that regard as Bush, rather than going to Louisiana to oversee operations, stubbornly went to Phoenix and San Diego for pre-planned partisan junkets.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. YUP, the body language of ignoring N>O> La. was gross and rude
revealed a major FLAW in his disturbed brain...like bush jus doesn't care, is a racist, a bigot, a spoiled kid with a flawed philosophy....

Bush the Loser will be his moniker.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Cheney forgot to tell bush the levies had broke and
people were dying. Cheney was busy taking care of his oil business.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
52. Yup, it seemed that way...no one at the Bushies team watches TV??
5 days before help arrived
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
47. GOP loses in November? Cheney will quit due to health issues rather
then waste his time in office with no more power and especially when real investigations begin with democrats calling the shots on who-what&when investigations begin...
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
48. Bush in his ceremonial role as Queen PIC
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. oh poor little queenie
being queen is such hard work....

almost feel sorry for him - ha, ha, ha!
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #48
62. The chimp as Queen Victoria;
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #48
73. What's that on his tiara, fishing permits? nt
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
50. Happy to keep this one kicked!
Indeed. A GREAT assessment of this graveyard spiral we're in. With cheney the Grim Reaper-in-Chief. Even though rummy actually looks like it, it's cheney all the way.
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WatchWhatISay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
51. This guy must not be taking his meds
Else, why would he have noticed this
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
54. Here's the Strategy - George Go do something stupid while the rest of us
get some 'work' done. {{Work -def- The rape and pillage of planet earth to the benefit of a small group of fanatical lunatics}}
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petepillow Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
56. Best way I've heard it put YET. Sums it up nicely!
Big fatty kick and rec!
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
57. Great Op-Ed piece. I hope it'll grow legs.
Unfortunately, the press - like the Pentagon - is trying to fight its battles on the cheap and with too few soldiers. They aren't going to bother and Crooked Dick will keep getting away with driving America into history's big ditch along with Rome, the Ottoman Empire, the USSR, etc.
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ThsMchneKilsFascists Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
58. geez louise, this emperor's been wearing nothing but a smirk for sooo long
I surely wish it were more widely recognized, but this article is a great stone along the path.
KICK! KICK! and KICKED!
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kittykitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
61. kick
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
65. Don't insult Queen Elizabeth!!!! I wish she were president...nt
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
66. The Imperial Vice Presidency or SOGs in the WH basement
Edited on Sun Aug-27-06 08:24 AM by teryang
The model for this was laid out in the Reagan administration when then VP George HW Bush took control of the "invisible government," the covert policy making apparatus, and chaired the secret operations of Special Operations Groups run from the White House basement. Reagan didn't want to concede this much power to Bush, so Bush family friend Hinckley tried to kill him. Reagan and his spouse got the message and George HW took over.

Ironically, when George I ran for president, he deliberately chose a running mate nearly as stupid as his son, just so the newly empowered imperial vice presidency would disintegrate and the "invisible government" would remain under his direct control as it had been since the Reagan assassination attempt. He would go "quail shooting" annually so the VP could not help but get the message.

The same cabal of criminal operators responsible for SOG operations then, Poindexter, Abrams, Reich, and Negroponte are still doing their dirty work in the current illegal regime. Things are back to normal, and they get their day to day marching orders from the VPs office. The only caveat that I would place on the posted article's premise is that George I plays a role and probably has a secure line to both the VP and the WH. The current dictatorship is something akin to a triumvirate and is in a transtion stage. The question is who will lose power first? HW? Cheney? or von Rumsfeldt? Time is clearly taking its toll on HW. As it does, Cheney seems to be in position to seize total power with some other patsy occupying the White House proper after further fraudulent elections.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
67. Love the Art on this
The art displayed is fantasic. great stuff.
As for Darth Cheney, we know but, the problem is "does the Average person on the street" know?
Do they care?
We have the stepford bushies who think he is god. and so does bush himself. But, the average american doesn't know and alot of this has to do with the complicity of the MSM. I was watching Book TV and they had the people who wrote the Case for impeachment. There is so much people are not being told by the lapdogs.
thank god for the internet and places like this where you can find out what's really going on
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Welcome to DU, illinoisprogressive
Let's hear more from your street(s).
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mkb Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-27-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
70. Prepare For Worst, Hope And Work For Best
     It's probably true that Cheney is the brains of the
operation, and that coupled with Bush's family lineage that
had dealings with the Nazi's (Prescott), we should heed
seriously warnings of bad things that could happen, and
prepare against them.
     People must consider the possibility of things continuing
to get worse, including the detention camps that have been
reported being built by Halliburton, Cheney's former place of
business.
     There is no reason to believe that because Cheney and
Bush and their friends are "Americans", that makes
them "more nice" than other evil doers throughout
history.  It mostly matters how intelligent and organized the
common people are in defense against the plutocratic and other
tyrannies that develop in the world.
     We have some advantages going for us, but we should
prepare to struggle against this tyranny in whatever ways we
must, using our heads to guide our hearts.  
     A major decision one has to make is whether to expose
your identity to the intelligence gatherers in the society. 
Try to think this one over carefully.  This includes bank
transactions, which can give clues about you.  It also
includes phone and internet use, which can be traced by
authorities.  In short, interaction in society, and even what
you think can give clues to people about your identity and
intentions, which then can be used against you and others
trying make things better.  Not everybody who does things you
agree with is your friend, and vice-versa.  The long term
progress of humanity has to be considered when making your
decisions, I hope.
     I won't waste time making predictions, other than to say
I don't see positive resolution any time soon.  If things go
well in some way fine, but good people throughout history have
sacrificed so that progress could happen, and we should be
inspired by them, even if we don't have such inspiration
directly evident in our lives.  Let's prepare for difficulty,
and hope our efforts, whether we engage openly or discretely,
will succeed.  People, even though it may seem distasteful,
should consider that the 2nd Amendment may be a buffer against
tyranny.  Ghandi probably couldn't have had much effect
against Hitler.  I think balancing your emotions is important,
trying not to get too high or low, even though for some it can
be difficult.  Good luck to all of us.
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mkb Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
72. Does Pain Happen Because Of Pleasure?
     For those of you struggling for justice, I would like to
add something to what I wrote.
     I remembered a song lyric by a particular Fellow that
said "...'cause the consequences worth contemplating, are
forgotten in the moments that are self-inflating..." and
seeing as how I was feeling somewhat good, I shed Crocodile
tears.
     I vow that I want the world to be the best it can be for
as much as life as possible, but that phrase really bothered
me.  Did it mean that when we enjoy ourselves, we end up
causing pain for someone or ourselves at another time?  That's
essentially the conundrum that I faced, as I think we all do,
as to if we can enjoy our own lives without harming the
greater good.
     I really can't say absolutely, because I wish people
could be happy all the time, but the answer I have right now
is that it's possible to do good and be happy, but it still
has to be thought about carefully.  So if you put some thought
into it and a little effort, perhaps it can work.  I still
stand by what I wrote earlier, though, that moderation seems
to be a good guiding principle.  So I wish us luck in our
struggles, and hope that we can achieve happiness, even though
we must be prepared to use discipline to defend against the
worst in ourselves and others.
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