Police: Family Lived In Filth, Bathed In Pond

[The Straight Story]

Police: Family Lived In Filth, Bathed In Pond

POSTED: 11:13 pm EDT August 23, 2006

Two parents in Lake County, Fla., were arrested after their children were found living in a filthy home without running water, according to a Local 6 News report.

Police arrested Christine Foels and her fiancée Christopher Curran after receiving an anonymous call from a neighbor about their filthy home. The pair was living in the home with two girls, ages 5 and 4 months.
....

Officers said a refrigerator inside the home was filled with rotting food. Also, the house has not had running water in more than a month, so the toilets were filled with feces.

"They bathed in a pond that was in the back of the property," Lake County sheriff's Sgt. Christine Mysinger said.

The baby's crib was also used as a trash bin, the report said.

Foels said her family is just going through some financial problems. She said she has not done anything wrong.


http://www.local6.com/news/9728253/detail.html

[hippiechick]

1. We better get used to more stories like this, thanks to W ....

.... more and more families who were just starting to get on solid footing before the selection and re-selection, have now had their knees taken out from under them thankx to asshat's (lack of) economic policy.




:(

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. I don't think that is their problem...

You can bury your trash, and dump a bucket of pond water into the toilet to make it flush.

These people have deeper issues. poor kids. :(

[elehhhhna]

26. Yep.

[Xithras]

49. Exactly. If they had a pond, they had running water.

When I was a teenager our well pump went out and we were without water for a week. We ate and drank using bottled water, we showered at school, and we flushed the toilets using water carried up from a neighboring creek in a bucket. It wasn't pleasant, but we survived and did so without feces or trash piling up.

If they had a pond, they had the means to flush their toilet.

[Nabia2004]

55. Different times, many no longer know how live off the "land"

A large percentage of the current generation is absolutely clueless when it comes to how things work.

[Xithras]

67. I'm only 32!

It's not like I'm an old fogey ruminating about the good old days here (unless you consider the 1980's the good old days). It didn't take a lot of thought. 1) Toilet needs water. 2) Water is in creek next door. 3) Get bucket. 4) Dump creekwater into toilet.

But I do agree that a lot of people can be clueless. Last winter my power went out for the better part of a day, and one of my neighbors was whining about having to order pizza for dinner. When I asked her why she was ordering it if she didn't want to, she said that she COULDN'T make dinner...her microwave didn't work with the power off. She honestly had no clue how to cook food into an edible meal from scratch. I can't imagine how people like that would survive without running water.

Being a good neighbor, I invited them over and we had a mid-winter barbecue :)

[hippiechick]

74. Apparently you've never been in the position ...

... where you or someone you know has been beat down by society so many times that you finally say 'fuck it', retreat and quit trying altogether.

Lucky for you. Not so lucky for some people who run out of resources, will power, and the urge to 'play along'.

A form of mental illness, perhaps. PTSD of some kind? :shrug:
I'd suggest its not wholly of their own making.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

75. Yes. Family members, friends, and myself

It wasn't because I was poor. Well, it was part of it.
Depression, real life, dealing with shit got to me and I escaped with drugs. It got bad, downright ugly at times, but there were a few things I just wouldn't do. My place was a big f'n mess, but was never dangerous to the health of my kids.

On the other hand, my childhood traumas were 'good days' to a few close friends, who had a much harder time of it.

My thoughts are with these kids, and their parents.

[Cleita]

39. Great picture.

I think we should start taking picture in our own town of the down and out and start publishing them here for all to see.

[hippiechick]

43. Thank former DU'er B. Pilgrim

He was a treasure trove of sharply pointed il Bushie critiques.



:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

71. former?

Geez...sorry to hear that. Just heard about benburch too.
They are sorely missed...:(

[hippiechick]

73. Believe so ...

Unless he's come back w/ a name change, I think he's been gone elsewhere for some time, now. :(

[jeanarrett]

80. What happened to benburch?

[NJCher]

2. reading this...

I'm thinking that thousands of Iraqis have to live in conditions that may not even be this good. Yet over here, it's news.

Go figure the logic on that one.




Cher

[AZBlue]

78. Excellent point!

And many other countries too unfortunately.

Of course, in Iraq it's doubly shameful since it's our doing...

[Fleshdancer]

3. They were arrested for being poor?

Let me get this straight. They can't afford food, and they can't pay the water bill so the best course of action is to arrest the parents and set a $5,000 bail?

[KingFlorez]

4. It's because they have kids

People who have kids living in conditions like that usually do get in trouble.

[Selatius]

7. Most of America lived like this at one point in history; it's nothing new

If you are too poor to afford electricity or running water, then the message was always "tough shit." What is notable is that this is happening in the US in 2006, not 1906.

[KingFlorez]

19. I didn't say it was new

But it's not right to keep kids in a dirty house

[Selatius]

22. That's true, but there should be no excuse whatsoever to...

have people without access to power or water in a nation as rich as ours when they want it. That's just appalling.

Now, if they had money and didn't want to pay for it, then that's a different issue, one of neglect of the children, but if their finances are so bad that they cannot even afford basic necessities, we have a major problem.

[pitohui]

44. try cleaning your house w.out water

i know someone in a similar condition, sure, another dude upthread says, oh just take the water from the pond and flush the toilet

the reality is that you can't keep carrying water, which is heavy, from the pond several times a day

she did so ONCE a day to flush the toilet

if the cops came at the wrong time, then the family is fucked

you go out to your pond, fill the water bucket, sometimes it will need to be done two or three times before it "takes" and the toilet flushes from water from a bucket, and you do that every time someone in the family uses the toilet...

you wouldn't have time to do anything else all day

i don't want to say more because i don't want to hear all the judgmental crap, but if anyone needs to go to jail it's the damn landlords who maintain properties in this condition such that running water becomes a fantasy

"oh yeah but you have an entire pond"

don't do me no favors

fortunately my friend is getting out of this situation, we're counting the days

ignorant, interfering busybodies who don't have any thing useful to do to help should STFU instead of trying to make more trouble for people

when the kids are raped by some foster parents, which actually happened to a kid i knew removed from a "dirty" home, i'm sure their lives will be much improved...NOT

[Nabia2004]

59. excellent point, thank you - nt

[gollygee]

57. No, before running water, most people had outhouses

and most people have always thrown their trash away rather than leaving it around the house. No matter how poor they were.

The kids could have gotten seriously ill from living there.

I know desperately poor people who have had their water and electricity turned off on them. Somehow they all managed to throw out trash. And if the trash couldn't be picked up, they burned it or burried it. But they didn't leave it around the house to get their kids sick.

[verse18]

8. The were probably charged with child abuse and neglect

because they had children in a home that was unfit.

[Selatius]

10. What I don't understand is why they turned the crib into a dumpster and...

left the food in the refrigerator to rot instead of cleaning it out.

[verse18]

21. That is very sick and disgusting

and who knows why the parents did this.

I work with children and families that have been referred to child protective services for abuse or neglect and I evaluated this mother who was bulimic, an alcoholic and severely bipolar. She would urinate on herself where ever she happened to pass out in the house and would throw up anywhere at will. Her two daughters told me they would have to wipe vomit from dishes and other surfaces in the house. When DCS went to investigate the house, they took pictures and the DCS worker said the vomit smell was so pervasive that the Polaroids she took smelled like vomit when they left.

Mental illness mixed with poverty and destitution could be a root cause and I would suspect there is more to this story.

[elehhhhna]

29. Welcome, verse18, and thank you for the work you do with

these children. I'm brave & resourceful & fairly tough but would be too fractured emotionally to do it. I stand in awe of those of you who do.

[verse18]

31. Thanks for the welcome.

And please don't be in awe of me. I do the work that I do because these kids need help and support to make peace with childhood traumas because it inevitably follows them into adulthood.

[etherealtruth]

46. Excellent point ....

"Mental illness mixed with poverty and destitution " = punishment; where the remedy should be help with whatever issues (severe to be sure) these people have.

[elehhhhna]

27. Depression, mental illness, alcohol/drugs in some combo, probably.

[MoseyWalker]

41. I had that combo of problems when I did Verse 18's job

I used to do that work, and greatly admire anyone who stays with it. I lasted a while, but it was tearing me up inside. I think anyone who does this work should be given a week off per month to recharge. I'm still recharging.

[pitohui]

45. because it probably isn't true

to make a long story short, i had neighbors accused of doing all this and more, they were played on the media that they had dog shit smeared all over the house

it was an out and out lie, i went into that house, and several other neighbors did, and we tried to get heard but we couldn't be heard, because they were poor all they got was a public defender and our evidence and testimony was never used

the police and the media can SAY the kid's crib was a dumpster or that the parents deliberately smeared dogshit on the walls, they can SAY anything they want, because their word is "proof" and poor parents have no way to defend themselves against these sensationalist lies

don't even get me started

[newspeak]

62. yeah, but you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip

if they're poor, how are they going to pay a 5,000 dollar fine? Oh, I know--we can just set up work houses. "Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?"

[Warpy]

6. Poverty has been criminalized

and if you're too poor to pay your bills, you are a criminal.

I do think they might have CLEANED, though, even if it meant takiing the rotting food and bags of feces to a commercial dumpster at 3 AM.

[hippiechick]

15. Exactly.

ITA. :hi:

[The Straight Story]

16. I could certainly see the cleaning part, but I also wonder

The kids are real young, she could have post partum depression (coupled with depression in general given their condition). The guy could be suffering depression as well, or be injured (like a back injury), etc. Even then I would still hope they would try to keep things clean, but I can see people being so down they just don't care - which is unhealthy for the kids.

On the upside, I didn't see any claims of abuse of kids.

[shanti]

25. right

so what do you think about using the baby's crib as a trash bin? that has nothing to do with being poor, but it has everything to do with being nasty.

[Fleshdancer]

36. I think it's gross but I don't think filth is a criminal act

Like I said in my first post, how does arresting this couple and setting a $5,000 bond help the situation?

[shanti]

42. i dunno about that part

but their children shouldn't be involved in it. that's my main concern.

[Totally Committed]

35. I say, let's bring back debtors' prisons!

It's all that's missing here, right?

The parents are probably badly beaten-down by the system, and the kids are suffering their depressiona nd neglect right along with them. This family needs some sort of intervention, all right, but not legal. The parents need counselling as do the kids.

Or... maybe they just moved around too much for their tax cut check to find them... Oh, I remember now, they're just waiting to get "trickled-down" upon... :sarcasm:

TC

[me b zola]

52. That's right. Help the family, don't beat them down further

This family needs some sort of intervention, all right, but not legal. The parents need counselling as do the kids. :thumbsup:

Something to hope for is always helpful.

[slackmaster]

37. Sounds like health code violations

There is no reason they could not have buried their rotten food or used pond water to flush the toilets.

[ComerPerro]

40. the concept of bail is so regressive

[Xithras]

51. No. Bail is a progressive concept.

Back in the olden days, people accused of a crime would simply be held in prison until their trial. The idea was that, if someone is already a criminal, threatening them with criminal charges for skipping a court date probably wouldn't be effective. So people were held for long periods without trial, even the innocent, and quite often would plead to some lesser charge just to get sentenced and get out of there.

Bail is a progressive concept intended to get people out of jail without waiting for their trial. It uses financial and familial ties to get the accused criminals to return for trial, and is really the only other option available to our judicial system.

[ComerPerro]

53. In what way is that progressive?

I assure you, if I was charged with a crime and arrested, even if I was completely innocent, I would be stuck in jail for months before I could come up with $10,000 (and sometimes its higher than that).


In the Duke rape case, the defendants posted, what, $40k each?

No way a regular person could do that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. That's why there are bonds.

And collateral.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. There's a house like this in every neighborhood. They are generally

ignored.

[elehhhhna]

30. hell, i have a couple of closets like that, sans the food refuse & poop.

[noonwitch]

9. I don't know if it's a criminal issue, but it is definitely a CPS matter

The parents need help. When situations like this occur, usually the parents are in need of mental health services. People who suffer serious depression and various other conditions frequently live in unsanitary conditions.

The kids need to be in foster care or a relative's home until the parents can either get new housing or clean up the house and get the water turned back on. It's Florida-you can live without electricity and gas, but you can't live without running water for very long.

[Fleshdancer]

12. That's what I'm thinking as well

I can understand removing the children from that environment but I don't understand arresting the parents.

Hopefully there are grandparents or aunts/uncles in the picture who can give the kids a home.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. It sounds like CPS may have been involved already.

The mother said in the interview that she had done everything she was asked to do to 'get her kids back.' She's still in jail, so it's hard to imagine that she's talking about since this arrest. As others have pointed out, keeping rotten food and trash in the house aren't signs of poverty alone -- there's probably something else going on here. I don't understand why, as others have mentioned, that they didn't haul water from the pond to flush the toilet or devise some other solution to get rid of the feces. The whole set of circumstances sounds like the parents aren't coping and need help. I hope that whatever is at issue is resolved for the sake of the kids and ultimately for their parents.

[gollygee]

58. I agree with this

They probably need help for some issue or another. It isn't OK for kids to be in an environment like that but there is probably mental illness and/or drug/alcohol abuse involved.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. And now the kids will be turned over to the tender care of the

Florida foster system, when they can be abused, sexually assaulted, or simply lost.

just the kind of help they need.

[Selatius]

14. Yes, I have heard the FL foster system is horrifically dysfunctional

They would be better off with friends or relatives, not the FL system.

[noonwitch]

33. Most kids who are counted as "foster kids" are with relatives

Any kid who has been removed by CPS/the courts due to abuse or neglect is counted on the rolls as a "foster child". Most are with family members. They are only placed with licensed foster parents when there are no decent relatives available or willing to care for them. Or, if the kid has a lot of psychological/psychiatric problems and has to live in residential treatment for a time to stabilize his or her behavior.

[badgerpup]

18. I'm not being sarcastic.

Is there another option for them?
If the parents doesn't have relatives, who'll take them?

Although going on her behavior*, I'm not sure that's such a happy option either.

I know I don't know the whole story, but families to tend to resemble each other unless somebody CHOOSES to be different.

*trash doesn't belong in a 4 month old baby's crib, no matter HOW poor you are.

[datadiva]

17. Wait a minute,

Rotten food in the fridge can be removed. You can use something besides the baby's crib for a garbage pail. A bucket of water poored into the toilet will flush it. If they bathed in a pond then they had the water for the toilet. Poverty is not a excuse for living in filth. I'm sorry, but I have to agree something should be done to take care of these children.

[Lisa0825]

20. It is not a poverty issue.

There have been stories of wealthy people dying in their homes too, only to be found later with garbage piled to the ceiling. I believe it is a mental health issue, otherwise, they would have made better choices to protect the children.

There are many people all over the world who live in squalorous conditions, even when it has nothing to do with money.

[gollygee]

23. I agree 100% - poor people can keep their houses clean enough to be safe

My goodness doesn't anyone at DU know poor people? Poor people don't generally live in filth like that. And rich people sometimes do.

Being poor doesn't excuse them from using the crib as a trash can.

If their water was turned off htey shouldn't have kept using the toilets till they filled with feces they couldn't get rid of. I agree - if they had a pond to bathe in they had water for the toilet.

[Cleita]

34. I guess you have never been that poor.

For one thing, soap and water cost money you may not have. Try bringing in buckets of water from the pond if you have a bucket. If you have no place to put the trash because you couldn't pay the bill, what do you do with it? What if the crib is the only receptable you have at the time that can carry stuff? Maybe there is no money for gas for the car to go buy a trash receptable. Maybe they sold the car for money for food.

Why don't they scream for help? Many people who once were in better circumstances are often too proud to and they have gone into a kind of shock that makes them believe the situation is only a temporary set back.

Stop blaming the poorest among us for the problems we as a society should be taking care of. The blame is on our shoulders not theirs. And I have seen plenty of dirty homes in my lifetime belonging to people who could've afforded domestic help if they didn't want to do it themselves.

[Scout1071]

61. None of us know the exact circumstances, but we can all agree -

that is no place for children - or adults for that matter.

I'm not blaming them for being poor, but come on, some of this is just disgusting and certainly no place their kids. I'm not sure that being arrested is the answer, but they clearly need help. If you let things get that bad, you likely need mental help as well.

[dogday]

24. Sad thing about this besides the obvious

is that so many more have stories like this or even worse... This family will endure the hardship of being broken up, as you know CPS will take the children, and somehow the parents will have to get back on their feet before they can have their babies back.

[Cleita]

32. So were they filthy or did they bathe? You can't have it both ways.

There was a similar story in Idaho six years back. A mother with six children was arrested and thrown in jail. Her crime was poverty and squatting in what used to be her home. Her husband, the bread winner had died from Multiple Sclerosis with no medical care. They couldn't afford it. Her home was sold out from under her for back taxes. She and her children had no place to move.

There were stories of trash and a dirty home. The utilities were cut off. The children foraged in the forest for food and cooked it on a campfire outdoors. They bathed and brought water from a nearby lake. She couldn't afford gas for their car so they couldn't take the trash to the dumpsters like rural people do in that part of Idaho. She got arrested when she flagged down a sheriff and asked him for a ride to the local food bank.

Since they had become really reclusive none of the neighbors were aware of what was going on until the children armed themselves and barricaded themselves in the home against the sheriffs when their mother was arrested. There was the makings of another Ruby Ridge here. Fortunately, the tabloid press unwittingly did a good duty by putting the situation on TV and many of us were able to instigate a telephone and writing campaign to the local sheriffs demanding a peaceful solution to the problem and the release of the mother.

The children were finally persuaded to move into foster care with a neighbor. The mother was released and charges dropped. I have lost her whereabouts and for all I know she's been living under a bridge somewhere.

These situations are why we need national health care and we need to bring back a meaningful welfare system for these people who need a helping hand, especially the children.

[The Straight Story]

56. Have to agree with you

This is a bad situation for the kids all the way around. I don't think arresting the parents solves the problem at all here.

Do I think they could have done better? Sure. But what they need is help. If neighbors knew about this, and/or family I am saddened that they did nothing to help them out (or maybe they did and no mention was made).

[SmokingJacket]

38. This family needs help, but arresting them??

Sheesh.

The fact that they *were* bathing makes me think that poverty and possibly mental illness are the issues here, not outright child abuse.

[Brian Stevens]

77. You're putting the cart before the horse.

We don't know what is going on except what is reported to us.

[SmokingJacket]

79. Yes, I'm responding to the story as reported!

I will change my opinion if I hear new information.

[LynneSin]

47. As horrible as this seems I can almost see where they are coming from

I don't know enough about the family to judge but perhaps they've been struggling to make ends meet and barely have the money needed to fix the running-water (or pay the bill) along with other things. And sometimes when stress gets you backed into the corner you can get so depressed that you have no idea what you are doing to yourself and your kids is something horribly wrong.

[Laughing Mirror]

48. Money troubles on top of poverty is pretty depressing

And sometimes people who are severely depressed just give up, stop cleaning up. At least they had a pond to bathe in, I hope not too polluted.

[jayfish]

50. I Say That If The Kids Are In Good Health...

then the government can f-off. What business is it of the government to regulate hygiene>

Jay

[Brian Stevens]

54. Oh come on now!!!!

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? There was no mention of them being poor. I read what was there and saw the story. Those two parents were lazy. What work did the father do? No mention he was or wasn't employed. Their laziness could create diseases like salmanela, and up to the more serious hepetitus. And thats where endangerment comes in. I am glad they got arrested

[KayLaw]

84. Ummm....

You're right in a way. It didn't mention employment. Could you explain your remarks about their laziness, please? You could be right and they don't work, or, possibly, they do work but don't make much.

[Brian Stevens]

86. If I'm wrong...

I'm man enough to admit it. Just too many people jumping to conclusions on this thread, like blaming Bush, which surprisingly has nothing to do with this.

[Nicole]

60. No excuse for being filthy

You don't need running water to flush a toilet. You don't even have to haul water from the pond to flush it. If you can't flush it, then don't use it!

Either make a hole in the ground to use as a toilet or use a pot in the house that you can empty into a hole in the ground. If they insist on using the toilet then they could line it with a plastic bag that can be removed after using. To keep using a toilet without flushing is ridicules & nasty.

[KayLaw]

83. I watched the video

The toilet didn't look like it had much in the way of feces.

[SoCalDem]

63. This sad story proves two things

1. Procreation is an "ability" totally removed from reason

2. Mental illness and poverty go hand in hand

[Brian Stevens]

64. But there is no proof for this one family. NT

[deaniac21]

66. This is what bush has done to America.

[Nicole]

68. How is it Bush's fault

that someone wants to live in their own filth?

[Brian Stevens]

76. My sentiments exactly! nt

[Matariki]

81. mine too

:shrug:

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

70. Did they live in luxury before 2001? nt

[nick303]

69. The video clip said charged with child neglect

I think this is an open and shut case. There are a lot of "what if's" and "probably's" being thrown around in this thread when the evidence is staring us in the face. Maybe it isn't ideal but all authorities involved are acting in accordance with the law.

[The Straight Story]

72. The question though is, is it right?

Putting them in jail and such.

The 'filth' angle is about all there is to go on in that regards imho. But is jail and breaking up the family the best route to go? This is a case by case basis type thing imho of course.

I have 2 dogs and 3 puppies. On any given day they can come to my house and if I have not gotten up yet there will be dog crap on the floor. Or if I am at work it might well be there as the wife is ill and not always able to do her best, and we home school our 5yr old.

In two days we can accumulate dishes, etc, easily. My niece comes by a few times a week to clean for us and help out. But if she was not here for a few days and I missed getting things done due to work I could see the news reports now: "deputies went into the house and saw dog crap all over the place, dishes needing done, and beer cans in the trash". It can always be made to sound bad :)

[Cerridwen]

82. They brought water from the pond to flush the toilets....

the house was clean but it did have bugs (sounds like my grandparents' old house; no amount of cleaning would get rid of bugs; needed to fumigate).

The landlord did not address her problems about not having running water.

See another version of the story here:

"I'm a clean freak," Foels said Wednesday during an interview at the Lake County Jail. "I bleach everything."

The house did have bugs, "but it was clean," Foels said.

Foels said the house had no running water, but she blamed that on her landlord, who she said didn't address her complaints about the lack of water.

"They just caught us at a bad time," she said.

(More details at link)

[Brian Stevens]

85. Now I see

First, if he wasn't the father, who is? Second, she was dumb enough to date a regestered sex offender, even have him live with her children. Third, we still don't know if either or both have jobs at all. Forth,...

"I didn't get to send her off to school for the first time," said Foels, wiping tears from her eyes. "It's the one thing I've been looking forward to most."

Yeah, one down, one to go.

Fifth, Thats what you get for playing Ms. Macho, everyone needs help at times.

Still, its gives no more info as before.

[Cerridwen]

88. Very interesting the parts you chose to highlight.

First, if he wasn't the father, who is?

And that has what to do with the price of tea in China?

Second, she was dumb enough to date a regestered {sic} sex offender, even have him live with her children.

Dumb enough? Desperate enough? Forgiving enough? Or has an understanding of the legal system in her area enough to know this may be a questionable charge? Or...??? Who knows? None of the above.

"I didn't get to send her off to school for the first time," said Foels, wiping tears from her eyes. "It's the one thing I've been looking forward to most."

Yeah, one down, one to go.

Compassion, much? Because of course, those poor, dumb, "bitches" have no feeling for their own children.

Fifth, Thats what you get for playing Ms. Macho, everyone needs help at times.

Yeah, geez, only men are allowed to "tough it out," "take it like a man," "have the balls" to go it on their own. Women, should know better.

Still, its gives no more info as before.

Actually, it give the information that she was trying to get her life back on track as defined by "we" the keepers of morals and the high ground.

Many in this thread were eviscerating her for not keeping her children clean, for not flushing toilets and/or burying trash. This article says otherwise.

[pitohui]

87. did i call it or what? (post 44 and 45)

the cops just made up the dirty house deal, they totally invented it, if what she says is true and because of the experiences i hinted at in those posts, i have no reason to doubt her

i suspect the cops' intention was good -- they figure the shack-up is a child molestor and let's get the kids away from the creep pro-actively but making up crap about how dirty mom is -- that is low down and dirty

as i said in one of my replies above, the couple i knew that was railroaded, the media blindly reported, for years, lies about dog shit (excuse me feces) being smeared all over the house

we neighbors walked around and searched...there was NOTHING, the only sign of disorder was a small bit of dog hair in one corner and, oh yeah, the slum landlord took the opportunity to steal their teevee and microwave -- i guess his reasoning was they wouldn't need it in jail, funny how a microwave was clean enough to steal even though it was supposedly smeared with dog shit

i just don't believe the more sensationalist stories any more without photographic proof

[Cerridwen]

89. Yeppers, you did...and thank you for that.

I've not had first hand experience with this particular issue, but I've seen how easy it is for the "authorities" to muddy the waters of truth in a way the rest of us have no hope of fighting. Mine has been second and third hand.

I would love if once, just once, the media reported all the facts in an issue and kept their filthy minds and ideas and judgments out of it.