No right to hold me hostage to the madness of the Western Religions !

[RethugAssKicker]

I'm sick and tired of my family and I and like minded others being held hostage by the followers of Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

These Western religions all have dooms day philosophies and a large following have wet dreams of this outcome. Many of the countries which practice these religions have the ability to actually achieve this armageddon scenario, as many of them have nuclear weaponry....

They are but a small part of the planet as a whole !... but believe they have the right and biblical destiny to destroy the whole world in the name of their religions.

I say God damn them!... Keep your madness to yourselves !

[TheFriedPiper]

1. Superstitious people should never have positions of power

ever


We don't hand over power to schizophrenics, MPDs, or other psychological delusions.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. succinct, to the point, perfect analysis

religion = superstition

[RethugAssKicker]

4. I agree ... there should be some type of litmus test

prohibiting these types of people holding certain positions..

[Jo March]

43. So, even if I was qualified, you would not let me run for office

I'm anti-war. Check.
I'm pro-choice. Check.
I'm for stronger social programs that would help the poor. Check.
I'm for more money for education, better teacher pay, smaller classrooms. check
I believe strongly in the 4th Amendment and therefore believe that the Patriot Act is unConstitutional. Check
I believe in open-source code and transparent elections and VVPB. check

So far I am a pretty good candidate but you would deny me the right to run for office because I am a Christian?

Wow. Just...wow.

[bryant69]

9. At what point would you deny position of power?

Could an agnostic have a position of power? How about a buddhist? A deist? An episcoplalian? (I already know that I'm out of the question).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bryant69]

11. So anybody who believes in God is out the window?

How about people who believe there may be a God?

Bryant

[TheFriedPiper]

15. In a perfect world, yes

But, in a perfect world, people would be too well-informed to believe in fantasies.

[bryant69]

17. Interesting.

Your not really a live and let live kind of guy - I'm starting to think my "Atheist Inquisition" jab might have been more accurate than I realized at first.

Bryant

[TheFriedPiper]

19. strained parsing there, eh?

You extrapolate my belief that superstitious (read: non-realty based) people should not have control over my life into claiming that I somehow wouldn't 'live and let live'


I have NO PROBLEM with fools being fools. I DO have a problem with fools CONTROLLING MY GOVERNMENT.

Is it clear enough for you now or do I have to give you the King James translation?

[bryant69]

21. No I understand well enough

You simply would deny American Citizens who don't share your beliefs about the nature of God (i.e. his non-existence) the right to hold political office. Similar to what was enacted in many states in the early history of this country which denied American Citizens who didn't share the majorities belief about the nature of God the right to hold political office.

You've come a long way FriedPiper.

[RebelOne]

23. People who do not believe in god usually are denied the right

hold office. Tell me, how many atheists do you know of that are in state and government offices? I don't know of any.

[bryant69]

24. There are a few I believe

But you are right that is a crime. Of course it's terrible that Atheists are denied the opportunity to hold public office. That's just plain wrong. That said I don't think teh solution is to substitute one type of exclusion for the other.

Edited to add - if you want more info on my opinion about the intersection of religion and politics, you might check out my review of The Godless Constitution. --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com/2006/08/godless-constitution-redux.html

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jo March]

34. Your post does not represent the mainstream views of DU

Most DUers don't think that a person is insane for believing in God.

Persecuting others for nonbelief in a diety is wrong. Period. End of story. I don't think that anyone here on DU would support persecution or oppression of atheists/nonChristians, etc.

I am not insane nor am I gullible. Your post is devisive and insulting.

[Jo March]

30. TheFriedPiper, I'm a bit confused by your post

Are you lumping those who have religious beliefs together with "schizophrenics, MPDs or other psychological delusions"? I'm sure that you are not but that sure is the way that it comes across.

I am a very spirtual person and would have enough sense to seperate church and state were I ever in a position of power.

I do not consider my beliefs to be superstition, either. Many other spiritual DUers don't either. I especially don't consider myself to have psychological delusions because I believe in a higher power.

Perhaps you were being a bit harsh in trying to express your disgust in those who pervert religion in order to harm, oppress and murder others? Surely you are not lumping all religious people into the "crazy" category.

Are you? If you are, then you are showing as much intolerance and ignorance as the fundies/extremists of all faiths do. Saying that only atheists/nonbelievers in any type of diety should be allowed to be in office is just as bad as saying only theists should be allowed to hold positions of power. There are bad rulers from both camps.

Generalities, stereotyping and namecalling are not hallmarks of your other posts which is why I am confused.

Peace,

Arnie

[shadowknows69]

31. Not putting a 13th floor on a building is one thing

Expecting and encouraging global catastrophe because you think that's how God wants to come back is another.

[ananda]

3. So what are you..

.. going to DO about it?

[RethugAssKicker]

6. Well... for now... discuss it!

[smokey nj]

5. Amen RethugAssKicker.......

I was dealing with this bullshit last night at work. It made me so angry, I couldn't get to sleep.

[Jed Dilligan]

7. If only

they merely had the power to destroy each other, and leave the rest of us in peace.

[jobycom]

8. I don't think it's the Western religions holding you hostage

I would argue that it is a group of thugs with similar goals and methods, and a basic love of bullying, who are holding you hostage, and they are using whatever religion they happen to follow to justify what they are doing. It's the old adage "God trumps all." Bullies love to use whatever God their culture worships as their excuse, because no one can argue with God. They just shout "God wills it!" and no argument based on logic, science or anything else matters anymore. But it isn't the religion, it's the bully.

Patriotism is the same way. Bullies shout "Support the Fatherland (Motherland, Uncle Samland, whatever)!" and people march behind them.

ANd I'm an atheist, so I'm not vested in this.

[Kickoutthejams23]

12. I won't fly on a plane if the pilot is Hindu.

or any religion that believes in reincarnation. (apologies to whatever comedian I lifted that from)

[RethugAssKicker]

13. You're technically correct... but practically wrong !

Are the Hindus threating world annhilation?

Are the buddhists threating world annhilation?

Are the Taoists threatening world annhilation?


Is it in their Religions ?.... NO !

Is world annhilation a part of the Western Religions??.... YES

[bryant69]

14. Actually I believe Hindus and Buddhists both have

End Time Scenarios in them - Taoism doesn't. Not all sects or individuals take those scenarios the same way, of course.

[Atman]

18. Kinda sorta...

Buddhism views time as eternal, so there isn't Buddhist end time prophecy per se. However, Buddhists do see time as cyclical and within these cycles humanity passes through phases from enlightenment to delusion. As delusion and suffering grow, a savior figure - Maitreya (or Mettaya) Buddha - appears and through his spiritual teaching and leadership billions of humans attain nirvana. The online resources included in this section of our guide provide an overview of Buddhism and the role of Maitreya in Buddhist prophecy.

The Doomsday Guide


.

[jobycom]

27. Most Christians, Muslims and Jews aren't threatening world annhilation,

either. World annhiliation is not part of western religions. The world ends after a period of moral decline and chaos, but it isn't supposed to be part of the relgious duty of any of these religions to bring that end about. The only duty of these western believers according to their doctrines and sacred scriptures is to prepare for the end, not bring it about. Each religion even blames non-followers for bringing about the end. This IS true of Hinduism, as well. Buddhism has a different eschatology--they believe that after a period of moral decline and chaos the Buddha will be forgotten, and the world will be hell until a new Buddha comes to save it. Even science and some economic systems have a similar belief. All believe it is the dut of the follower to live a good life within the precepts of the religion, and thus stave off the end game until finally the forcs of non-believers overwhelm them and destroy the world, making it safe to be rebuilt in a good way. Isn't that the basic belief of global warming even? And of Ralph Nader?

India, China, and Japan all have nuclear weapons, despite not following western religions. The Soviet Union had nuclear weapons. The whole concept of "Mutually Assured Destruction" is based on the idea that it would be better to destroy the world than to let the other guy have it. The fact that America and the Middle East have an over-abundance of maniacs who want to end the world and who have some form of access to a power that could conceivably do it is based on more than their religions. America is power mad, spoiled, overly materialistic, and egotistical (it has good points, too, but those are it's bad points). And we are exploiting the region. So the region looks for the most non-American rallying cry to show their opposition. They use Islam. The situation is made worse, as it was in Tzarist Russia, by poverty and an extreme economic gap between the elite and the people, so that those on the bottom want to see the world turned upside down. Most eschatologies--all that I know of--do just that. They take the world from the non-worthy and rebuild it around the worthy. Americans need their own rallying cry to justify exploiting and slaughtering innocent people, so they use "democracy." Some use the Apocolypse--bullies use whatever they can. Hitler used patriotism.

There are many western nations even in our hemisphere who are not trying to destroy the world, and who still follow Christianity. There are Muslim nations that do not want to blow up the world.

It isn't religion. It's bullies.

[Jo March]

37. Yes, but if you read the holy book of a large western religion

then you'll see that some world leaders and zealots are using one particular book of the overall Holy Book to try and justify their blood lust and greed. If the world gets blown up here and there, think of the money that Halliburton will make.

Holy texts can be used for whatever nasty means leaders want them to. They conveniently leave out all of the love and understanding and turn the other cheek stuff because that would really put a cramp in world annihilation, wouldn't it?

The reason I am a Democrat and a pacifist is because of my belief in my particular Western religion. You know, the one where a particular messiah preaches that the greatest two commandments are "love God with all of your heart" and "love thy neighbor as thyself"? If a believer of that Western religion would actually follow those two commandments then they wouldn't be sitting around thinking about war and global annihilation, would they?

Unfortunately, the leaders in power ignore those teachings and twist their own holy book to match their perverted lust for power and money.

[Jo March]

32. I agree, jobycom

Some people like to use religion to beat others into submission. They use it to control others by fear and then they use that fear to exert even more control.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses" to me is a bit disingenuous. The manipulation of people using religion or nationalism or patriotism is not an opiate or a drug. It's more like abuse from a classic abuser. The abused stay and make excuses and develop PTSD or something similar. I can only liken it to being in an abusive relationship.

My religion teaches me to love my neighbor as myself and take care of others. If I go out and shoot someone who doesn't believe as I do, then what type of person am I? I have abandoned the teachings of my faith and supplemented them with jingoism, nationalism, patriotism or extremism.

Anyway, you nailed it much more clearly than I did! :yourock:

[Miss Chybil]

47. Very good. I think your theory is right on. It makes perfect sense. nt

[earth mom]

16. I'm agnostic and sick of it too!

We aren't allowed to criticize their craziness either! What a crock! So how is what's going over in the ME any different than some nutjob taking a gun and shooting up a McDonalds?! Answer: There is NO goddamn difference!

ALL OF IT IS TOTAL INSANITY!!! :crazy:

:argh:

[Shrek]

25. You're "not allowed" to criticize?

And yet this thread remains intact.

Go figure.

:shrug:

[earth mom]

36. Exactly! YOU don't like what's being said so you replied to my post

which criticizes organized religion! Why shouldn't this thread be allowed? Hmm? That is the question!

The hypocrisy I see from "believers" from almost every religion is just stunning! "Believers" can go on and on and justify every fucking thing they do in the name of their god and we aren't to say a word about it but just listen and be quiet?! WTF?! Sorry, but if "believers" want to spew about their beliefs and go about warmongering and killing innocents in this countries name then agnostics and atheists who live here too have a right to say something about it! :grr:

[Jo March]

39. Criticism of religion is certainly allowed

Flamebait is not. Posts that are purposefully devisive are not.

I don't see criticism here - just flamebait, anger and hostility. That doesn't bring either side anywhere close to an intelligent discussion and a plan of action or a solution or even understanding.

[treestar]

20. IA, I am always pointing out that the Armageddon bit

makes Christianity the most dangerous religion on the planet.

Even 911 is small compared to it.

Yet they are the ones going on about how the Muslims "want to kill you" blah, blah, and all that. At least they only want to kill a few of us (relatively) at a time.

I was raised Christian but I can see the problems.

Also no other religion seems as insistent that everybody else convert to it. If someone is not born into a Christian household, they would have to make major changes to convert so it is silly to expect to convert people to your way of life when they were born into a different one.

[leftofthedial]

22. they all are death cults

damn Constantine for his cynical linkage between christianity and secular politics that persists to this day in western "civilization."

[Jo March]

45. Yes - we are ALL in death cults

Yep. ALL of us.

Every single Western religion is a death cult.

Yep. You are so right.

As a pacifist, I am so stoked that I'm in a death cult!

:sarcasm:

[xchrom]

28. you couldn't even write this tome if hadn't been for irish monks.

so -- what ever.

[LanternWaste]

29. 'kay. Sorry.

'kay. Sorry. I'll untie you now and take the gun away from your head and the blinfold off.

Silly me, I thought I was farting around on DU at work today and turns out all this time I've been holding you hostage.

:)

[Jo March]

40. ...

:spray:

Way to inject some much-needed humor into this post, LanternWaste!

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jo March]

35. Welcome to DU, Hemperor

:hi:

[Hemperor]

38. thanks, =D nt

[RethugAssKicker]

44. Just keep your murderous

beliefs amongst those who believe the same.

There is a vast majority in the world, who do not practice your Western religion, and think it is insanely violent...

Do not affect us with that violence !

[Jo March]

46. Love thy neighbor as thyself

Jesus says that is one of the greatest commandments. If you read between the lines, however, you can see where He is really telling us to go and clobber others and be as violent as we can possibly be.

Do I even have to insert the sarcasm smilie here??

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. You sound a bit like them.

You know, phony accusations of being oppressed and all...

[Nikki Stone 1]

42. The doomsday philosophy can be traced to Zorastrianism

at least in the tradition of the religions you mention. Other religions though have an end of the world, like the Mayans. But these religions are particularly militant about it.

[HannibalBarca]

48. Yep have a look at this

I posted this in another thread but not many replied to it.

For an excellent documentary on this very subject see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kcKInudkq4

Its by Richard Dawkins an evolutionary biologist and it concerns this very subject, you can watch nearly all parts on you tube or probably download it by Bittorrent, highly recommend it.

[RethugAssKicker]

49. Thanks... I will defintely watch !

[Tyler Durden]

50. Got to go with the Athiests on this one. Sorry.

I've met a TON of Athiests and Agnostics that would be more than willing to let any "Theist" do whatever they want in their own church.

But the blocking of stem cell research, or putting up more 10 Commandment monuments than Budweiser ads, or the refusal to accept a legal medical procedure (abortion) because your "religion" won't let you let anyone ELSE have one, or the refusal to let SAFE medications be available (Plan B) because you believe life began when daddy shot his load, or refusal to let money for AIDS relief be used in a country unless they WASTE 30% on "abstenance education," or excusing a MADMAN who steals the presidential election and claims he hears GOD talking to him....

Nope. If there was a way to block EVERYONE with some sort of religious belief from public office, I would support it in a minute. I swear to GOD.

[rasputin1952]

51. Locking

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