The U.S. is being OUT-NEGOTIATED by Iran in the U.N.

[berni_mccoy]

Iran has lined up one hell of a negotiation stall. What happens on Aug. 31 when Iran doesn't comply with the U.N. demand to stop enriching uranium? Nothing. There is no immediate action along with the U.N. resolution, no sanctions, no military action.

Iran has put forward enough of a concession in their latest communication with the U.N. that there is enough for China and Russia to say "Whoa, Iran is willing to talk, let's not rush to action...". While Bolton has been belligerently badgering the U.N., Iran has been secretly negotiating with China and Russia on what they would need to stall any U.N. sanctioned action. Based on statements coming out of Russia and China, it appears they will resist any efforts to put action above continued negotiation. That means, if BushCo really wants what they've been pursuing, they will have to go without the U.N.

And I believe BushCo will go it alone, even if it risks retaliatory action by the U.N. I can see why many believe Israel's invasion of Lebanon was an experiment orchestrated by the U.S. to see how the U.N. would treat an overaggressive, misdirected response to a much lesser threat. What will the U.N. do when the U.S. starts bombing Iran? Will Russia and China get involved? Much of their oil comes from Iran and they've been all to eager to sell military grade equipment to Iran.

I dread that we will all know what the answer to that question much sooner than we would like.

[HereSince1628]

1. Russia and China don't need to believe shit about Iran's willingness

China wants to protect it's stake in the great game, and Russia wants to maintain access to the Indian Ocean. Remember Iran was a hugely important part of their ability to handle logistics during WWII. The Russians don't want to be encircled and until the Arctic Ocean is free of ice during January and February they'll do their damnedest to have some southern access.

[berni_mccoy]

2. I'm not saying they would "believe" anything... I think the three are

working together to keep any sort of U.N. sanctioned action against Iran from happening. While the U.S. has been busy bullying the U.N., Iran has been creating an alliance.

[HereSince1628]

3. Well I'm not saying you did...but if you look at what you posted...

There is certainly an implication that Russia and China are responding to Iran's communications. ..."Iran has put forward enough of a concession in their latest communication with the U.N. that there is enough for China and Russia to say "Whoa, Iran is willing to talk, let's not rush to action..."

My point is that Russia and China have their own reasons for supporting Iran in the UN and it has nothing to do with what Iran communicates to the U.N. Rather it has to do with supporting their nation's interest.

[gula]

5. Yep, One more shock and awe that has misfired.

More seriously: which country:
1. has started a devastating illegal war within the last few years?
2. has totally abandoned diplomacy?
3. is on the brink of bankrupcy?
4, has become a terrifying joke on the international scene?

[Sir Jeffrey]

4. Yeah, and it goes deeper than that...

Cheney and his staff of maniacs have completely altered the manner in which intelligence gets vetted. Now, instead of passing verifiable intel through the proper channels (CIA primarily), they send unverfiable information obtained either through torture or from "dissidents".

Why am I bringing this up? Because the main source of Iranian intel is Ahmed Chalabi and his cronies....AHMED CHALABI IS AN IRANIAN SPY!

Sorry for the caps...it pisses me off.

So Iran gets to feed any line of bullshit it wants directly to our executive branch and our dumb and/or evil leaders buy all of it.

This is all in Sy Hersch's book "Chain of Command" if you want to learn more,.

[NNN0LHI]

6. Oh, bullshit. The Iranians are in their last throes

Thats what UncaDick told me anyway. And UncaDick doesn't lie. Much.

Don

[Spazito]

7. It is interesting to see Iran using the same tactics the US has used

at the UN. Iran has learned well, it seems. There has to be a great level of frustration for the bush cabal to see them selves "hoisted on their own petard", as it were.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Their key is to never concede anything ever

All conceding got Saddam was a lot of grief.

Don

[Spazito]

9. Iran is certainly doing it with more "nuance", in terms of both their

responses and their alliances in the UN. Having two countries with veto power, China and Russia, urging restraint at the UN is certainly beneficial to Iran, not to mention having signed various agreements with them beforehand.

Iran may be many things to many people but, one thing is for sure, they cannot be classified as "slow learners".