Who do you think ran the better campaign? Gore or Kerry?

[WI_DEM]

[davidwparker]

1. Both. Neither should have let it gotten that close. I do think Gore ran

a better campaign than Kerry. Gore can run an excellent one in '08.

[Name removed]

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[blm]

4. Gore WAS swiftboated - media stayed with the storyline that he was a liar

and refused to discuss the evidence proving he was NOT a liar.

Just like the media did with the swifts.

[Name removed]

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[fedupinBushcountry]

14. Are you calling Kerry a liar?

That form 180 didn't prove a thing, he released everything that needed to be released at the time. Now go ask the swifties when they are going to release their 180's.

[Name removed]

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[fedupinBushcountry]

21. Ahmmm

you didn't answer the question. NUFF SAID.

[GreenArrow]

32. sure he did.

the one who ran the better campaign won.

[blm]

16. Look at the scope of the privileged son effort with the scope of the swift

campaign. You would have to be on mushrooms to believe they were anything near the same size.

And I have only heard that lame 180 crap from RWers and swifts. Kerry released EVERYTHING that was in the record during the campaign to legitimate journalists who had an entire week to peruse the complete record.

[Name removed]

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[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. Gore did win, but he was the incumbent

Kerry was challenging a 'War Time' President.
He had the media absolutely stacked against him, BS and innuendo being trafficked by the Swift Liars, and Osama bin Laden helping Bush out on the very last weekend with that video.
Yet he still got the most votes of any Democrat ever, and but for the Ohio shenanigans still came a hair's breadth from winning the whole thing.
Kerry ran a good enough campaign to win.

[blm]

23. Kerry and Gore had the same election legal team. Unfortunatley they had

the same WEAK Dem party infrastructure that could not dupport either one of their victories strongly enough for either to take office.

Kerry was cheated out of about 5million votes thanks to the Dem party INFRASTRUCTURE and its failures to counter the GOP vote stealing tactics they worked on every day throughout 2001-2004 election day.

A problem that Chairman Dean is now working on.

[LostinVA]

12. I thought Kerry came off quite good

He came across as intelligent, serious, NON richy and bratty.

He just didn't fight the "swift boating" enough.

[politicasista]

27. He did

We need to stop repeating that lie and put the blame on the Democrats and left-leaning pundits that sat on their tails and didn't back him up.

Swift Liars: Kerry-Edwards Campaign Response

April 14, 2004 - The website for SBVT was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, the information technology manager for Gannon International, a St. Louis company that has diversified interests, including in Vietnam. (1) (note - Gannon International does not appear to have any relationship to Jeff Gannon/Guckert, the fake reporter.)

May 3, 2004 - "Kerry campaign announced a major advertising push to introduce 'John Kerry's lifetime of service and strength to the American people.' Kerry's four month Vietnam experience figures prominently in the ads." (2)

May 4, 2004 - The Swift Liars, beginning their lies by calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", went public at a news conference organized by Merrie Spaeth at the National Press Club. (1)

May 4, 2004 - "The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event...The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.' " (3)


May 4, 2004 - Aug. 5, 2004 - No public activity by Swift Liars (?) Wikipedia entry (7) notes "When the press conference garnered little attention, the organization decided to produce television advertisements." (Ed. note - were there any public info or announcements, other than talk on blogs? Was there anything going on publicly? Did the campaign have reason to foresee what was coming - note that they must have, see the reactions to each ad).


Jul. 26, 2004 - Jul. 29, 2004 - Democratic National Convention held in Boston. John Kerry's military experience is highlighted.

Aug. 5, 2004 - The Swift Liars' first television ad began airing a one-minute television spot in three states. (7)

Aug. 5, 2004 - "the General Counsels to the DNC and the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign faxed a letter to station managers at the relevant stations stating that the ad is 'an inflammatory, outrageous lie" and requesting that they "act immediately to prevent broadcast of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time. " ' " (4)

Aug. 10, 2004 - Democracy 21, The Campaign Legal Center and The Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that the Swift Liars were illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections. (4)

Aug. 17, 2004 - the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges. (4)

Aug. 19, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced its own ad "Rassmann." (4)

Aug. 20, 2004 - The Swift Liars' second television ad began airing. This ad selectively excerpted Kerry's statements to the SFRC on 4/22/1971. (7)

Aug. 22, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced another ad "Issues" which addressed the Swift Boat group's attacks.

Aug. 25, 2004 - The Kerry-Edwards campaign ... dispatched former Sen. Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, to Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas to deliver to the President a letter signed by Democratic Senators who are veterans. (The letter was not accepted.) (4)

Aug. 26, 2004 - The Swift Liars' third television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's claim to have been in Cambodia in 1968. (7)

August 26, 2004 - Mary Beth Cahill sends letter to Ken Mehlman detailing the "Web of Connections" between the Swift Liars and the Bush Administration, and demanding that Bush denounce the smear campaign. (5)

August 26, 2004 - Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) submits FOIA request "with the White House asking it to detail its contacts with individuals connected to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT)." (6)

Aug. 27, 2004 - The DNC ran a full page ad in the Aug. 27, 2004 New York Times terming the Swift Boat campaign a smear. (4)

Aug. 31, 2004 - - The Swift Liars' fourth television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's participation in the medal-throwing protest on 4/23/1971. (7)

References:
* (1) SourceWatch article on SBVT

* (2) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman

* (3) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Kerry Campaign Response

* (4) (Sept. 8, 2004) Eric M. Appleman (apparently) Some Responses to the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" Ad

* (5) August 26, 2004 letter from Mary Beth Cahill to Ken Mehlman

* (6) Press Release (US Newswire): CREW FOIAs White House Contacts with Swift Boat Veterans Group

* (7) Wikipedia entry, Swift Vets and POWs for Truth

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[blm]

3. Actual campaigns were good enough to win - the media editted them down

to make them both appear less effective.

Boehlert's Lapdogs is an eye-opener.

Do you mean who won their debate matchups more decisively or who won the most votes?

What part of the campaign was the real problem for either men? I'd say it was POOR DEM PARTY INFRASTRUCTURE that assured that the two men who won could not take office because of the dirt pulled against Dem voters.

[napi21]

5. NEITHER! They BOTH listened far too much to their handlers

instead of being the REAL PERSON! Gore withhis drabolive or browm shirts, and Kerry who's handlers told him the swift boaters would just go away!

[fedupinBushcountry]

6. Why are you doing this?

You fall right into the RW spin, pitting 2 good Dems against each other.

[ThomWV]

7. Gore Obviously ... He won

[MrCoffee]

9. Mary Beth Cahill sucks more ass than Hannity

Skewer me if you want, but I stand by my statement.

[Selatius]

26. You're forgetting Bob Shrum

They both were on Kerry's advisory staff during the campaign.

[William769]

10. If you were to judge by the votes.

Gore.

[liberalpragmatist]

11. Well their popular vote percentages weren't too different

48.4% for Gore, 48.3% for Kerry.

[William769]

13. As compareed to Bush's they were.

[Greyhound]

15. And which do you prefer for dinner, maggoty meat or cat shit? n/t

[kellenburger]

17. I would say Gore, because he won.

Both campaigns allowed too much mis-information
and slander.

[Jed Dilligan]

22. Gore

Gore had more of a platform, Kerry seemed to be running against Bush--a strategy that would work now but was premature 2 years ago.

[politicasista]

24. Who cares? They are both good dems n/t

[last_texas_dem]

25. I think Kerry ran a significantly better campaign

and I love Al Gore, wanted him to run in '04, would likely support him in the primary if he decided to run in '08, etc. But in 2000 he had a hostile media and an apathetic populace ("yeah, things are going well under Clinton/Gore, but it might be cool to be led by a stupid asshole") all lined up against him, and he did a significantly worse job than Kerry at fighting them. Still, he won the election, but narrowly enough that the Bushies were able to steal it from him.

I honestly don't think Kerry ran that horrible of a campaign. He was facing a "wartime Preznit", and still fighting that unwarranted boost the 'pugs got from 9/11. He did an excellent job in the debates, and had the Democratic base as energized as I think it's plausible to expect for them to be. Other than perhaps relying too much on anti-Bush rather than pro-Kerry themes and not hammering the Swift Boat jerkoffs into the ground the minute after they started their bullshit, I don't think there was much more he could have done. With so many factors lined up against him, that election was still quite close.

[politicasista]

28. I still like Al Gore too n/t

[Selatius]

29. Gore himself admits he ran a shitty campaign

He watered down his economic populist message because he didn't want to come off as too socialistic. It was only towards the end that he tried to go back to his populist roots, but it didn't help the fact that Katherine Harris already purged 50,000 predominantly Black and Democratic voters from the rolls in Florida.

[Robbien]

30. Don't support Democrats who

Don't support Democrats...
...who won't stand up proudly for the things you believe in.

...who believe that "moving to the center" is the way to win votes.

...who think being more like "them" is the way to win back America.

...who won't walk a picket line with you.

...who won't call for an immediate plan to end the war in Iraq.

...who won't call for serious oversight of the President--any President.

...who won't openly support your right to marry anyone YOU choose and keep the darn government out of it!

...who won't openly support your right to make your own choices about what happens to your body in every situation.

...who won't stand up for stem cell research and funding.

...who won't fight to protect the environment so our children and their children will still have a world they can live in.

...who won't proudly fight for a living wage.

...who won't make education as high a priority as the military.

...who won't stand up strong for the least among us.

...who won't put people over profit every time.

stolen from
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2794116

Since neither Gore or Kerry stood up for any of these issues in any big way and both made their whole campaigns ALL about moving to the center, both campaigns were washouts.

Votes for Gore and Kerry were mainly votes against Bush IMO.

[Radical Activist]

31. They both ran campaigns based on their own fears.

The fear of being too liberal, too honest, too themselves. We need candidates who run without fear. I think both may have realized that afterwards.