In '00 why didn't Gore pick Graham of FL. to be his running mate?

[WI_DEM]

Everybody knew that Florida was going to be the big contested state that year, and I'm wondering why in 2000 Gore decided to pick Lieberman rather than go with Sen. Bob Graham, who had served both as a Governor and US Senator from Florida and had a huge favorability rating. It seems to me that he would have almost guranteed Florida--rather than squeeking through by a few hundred votes.

[RB TexLa]

1. I heard alot of people saying Gore thought the notebooks

that Graham kept (much like diaries) would be thought of as strange. I didn't find it strange at all, seems to have come from agricultural roots.

[librechik]

33. Lieberman said to guarantee the Jewish vote in Florida

that worked (maybe)--not so important ultimately...

[endarkenment]

2. Gore got (deliberately?) bad advice from his DLC "pals".

I am convinced that the cabal is deep and wide and has control over the leadership of both parties. Lieberman was one awful choice.

[knowbody0]

7. me too.

stinky!

[Greyhound]

9. WINNER! we have a winner right here!

Gore bears the responsibility for taking that "advice" and also for using the DLC scum (Donna Brazile et. al.) as advisers, remember that since they gained prominence within the party, they have lost every single election they have been involved with.

I really do agree that they are a fifth column, insinuated into the Democratic Party by the corporate faction, with the expressed purpose of dismantling the last remnants of opposition.

[mojowork_n]

15. I agree. In more than one parallel universe,

I'll bet that President Gore was assasinated shortly after his inauguration. That would have put Tecumseh's curse back on track. (Presidents elected in years beginning with "0" die in office, which started with Wm. Henry Harrison, and was only interrupted when Reagan finished off the last years of his second term with all the early signs of dementia -- 'what if Germany had LOST World War Two' was one of the things he was quoted as saying... Does that really count as 'finished his term'?)

Anyway, newly sworn-in President Droopy, in all those parallel universes (I have no doubt), tracked a course that exactly follows what Bush did, down to the last tax cut. It's more obvious than ever before that Der Monkey is no more than a sock puppet for the oil lobby and neo-cons, and I'll bet Droopy was put on the 2000 ticket to fill that same role, in all those possible 'string-theory' alternate realities.

[Lowell]

3. Gore is a Southerner

and so is Graham. I think he wanted the insurance of a Northerner on the ticket to help carry the entire eastern seaboard.

[WI_DEM]

but then again Clinton was a southerner and so was Gore

and they made a great team and won every northeastern state. I don't think Gore was in any great trouble in the NE in 2000.

[ThomWV]

8. I Seem To Recall Other Issues As Well

There were the notebooks but I think there may have been some other personal matters that might have seemed a bit odd to some. I also seem to recall that he may have said he wasn't interested in a No. 2 slot. Its been a while and although I liked Graham I was not one of his supporters so I really didn't pay a lot of attention once I had dismissed him as 'my' candidate.

[Yupster]

30. And Lieberman was expected to help

in Florida too as well as northeastern states like Connecticutt and New Hampshire and New Jersey. Those states used to be considered marginal states back then before the big blue-red divide.

[MADem]

4. Because Lieberman gave Gore distance from Clinton

If you recall, it was JoeMentum who stood in the Senate and excoriated Clinton for his behavior, but at the same time stopping short of a call for impeachment. It was a round scolding.

In those quaint days, Oval Office blow jobs were the end of the world....

Also, Graham has some odd idiosyncracies. He has OCD, and writes EVERYTHING (no, I mean, honestly, really EVERYTHING) down, from what he had for breakfast to how long it took him to take a shit. http://www.sptimes.com/2003/02/23/Floridian/Dress_in_gray_suit__d.shtml

[Perky]

35. Ding ding ding THIS IS THE ACTUAL WINNER

[Cha]

5. lieman was suppose to be the anti-Clinton

and I read that lieman was suppose to help with the Jewish vote in Florida. Instead they voted for Pat Buchanan compliments of teresa laporre.

[wakeme2008]

12. Plus 80% of the 60,000 Muslim American voted for

Bush... In part because of Lieman

[SoCalDem]

26. and you cannot ignore the closeted anti-semitic southerners

yes..there are still a lot of them.. they just are not as "open" as they used to be..

[Cha]

27. Bet they're regretting

that one.

[LisaM]

6. Did Graham have health problems at that time, too?

Or was that someone else from Florida?

Also, those diary things are WEIRD. George H.W. Bush keeps one and it seems like a propaganda tool. I've read portions of it and he is either completely detached from reality or it's a deliberate smokescreen (or both).

[MADem]

10. Valve replacement, but otherwise fine. NT

[MadJohnShaft]

11. Lieberman was critical of Clinton & the strategy was to distance himself

[skipos]

13. Because Democrats don't tend to be very strategic,

IN MY OPINION.

A senator hasn't been elected president in 40 years, and it is easy to figure out why. In the last few decades, our Southern candidates (Clinton, Gore, Carter) have done better than the others (Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale). If our 2000 or 2004 ticket had a good OH or FL candidate, we would have won regardless of Diebold. We need to consider good candidates from flippable red states. We need all the help we can get.

I hope our 08 ticket has some good non-senators from a flippable red states.

[Awsi Dooger]

34. The term I always use is lousy handicapping

And it drives me nuts. The margin for error is so low unless you have an outstanding candidate who can win the nation by several points and drag unlikely states with him.

Skipos got it right. We seemingly prefer to roll someone out there and ignore all the historical and logical trends, then scream Diebold if those trends hold up again.

Good non-senators from flippable red states. Agreed. I can think of Warner and Richardson immediately. And let's hope we win the tossup gov races so the bench wil be deeper in the future. Like skipos indicated, imagine if a Strickland or Brown had been established in Ohio in major offices and then available as a VP candidate in '04. Kerry would be president now without question.

My memory from 2000 is Florida didn't emerge as definitely in play and the most vital state until early fall, after the convention and long after Lieberman had been identified as VP. Looking back it's idiotic, since Graham would have been worth several points as a longtime popular favorite son. I'm a Florida native and can attest to how well known and popular he has been, dating to when I was in school. No one would have given a damn about notebooks. No one who wasn't already commited to vote against him regardless.

The myth is Lieberman was worth several points in Florida due to the Jewish vote. I've seen many claims it was a 3-5 point swing in Gore's favor. People love to pull numbers out of their ass if it sounds good. The Jewish vote in Florida is 5% of the total. A Democrat is going to win 70-75% of that minimum, in a 50/50 national popular vote scenario. So let's say that's 3.5-1.5. Now, Gore won the Jewish vote with 88%, according to most estimates. So Lieberman at most was worth 1 point in that area, since it would have been closer to 4.5-.5. However, it's not clear Gore wouldn't have pulled that 88% or very close to it minus Lieberman. And especially with a favorite son like Bob Graham. Kerry won 80% of the Florida Jewish vote, even though he did 3% worse than Gore in the national popular vote and more than 5% worse in Florida.

[skipos]

36. Yes, the fact that Dems look to gain some Governorships in 06

will be great for presidential elections down the raod.

[xxqqqzme]

14. the dlc wanted to seal its complete

takeover of the DNC so Al was told lieberman was his running mate. I have yet 2 meet one Democrat who didn't say, 'lieberman??? WTF???'

[Totally Committed]

16. Bingo....

The DLC was the matchmaker of that ticket.

TC

[hughee99]

17. As much as many seem to completely absolve Al

of any responsibility here, Al Gore was not TOLD Lieberman was his running mate. The DLC may have suggested Lieberman, they may have even pushed hard for him, but in the end, the choice was Gore's. Clearly, Gore's reaction to Lieberman was not WTF...

on edit: DLC was changed from DNC as it was a type-o on my part.

[William769]

18. People here want to blame the DLC for everything

I long for the days of people taking responsibility for their own actions.

[RB TexLa]

19. Didn't you get the memo? If Rove didn't cause something the DLC did

[endarkenment]

38. Everything? Not really.

I blame the DLC for the things the DLC does. Like for example giving Al Gore some really bad advice and some really bad campaign advisors. I agree the DLC should take responsibility for what they do and 'fess up to being the kleptocracy enablers that they are.

[Der Blaue Engel]

20. Note: DLC not the same as DNC

Just wanted to point that out, because it's a common mistake.

[hughee99]

23. My mistake, it was a type-o.

I was intending to refer to the DLC.

[WI_DEM]

22. I agree. Gore isn't some pawn

I think that he did want to put some distance with Clinton, whether that was a good strategy or not, I can't say.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. Even if it was suggested to Gore that without Lieberman he might

run into severe financial difficulties? Nothing like campaign money blackmail to make someone see the light. Lieberman brought with him the insurance and pharma industries - in those days, before internet grassroots funding, that meant a LOT of money.

[hughee99]

31. So while many believe Gore would have been strong enough

as president to stand up to special interests, foreign dictators, corporations, terrorists, fundies, etc... you're suggesting that he wasn't able to stand up to his own party. If true, this wouldn't make me think any better of Gore. I guess the bottom line is that this was GORE's pick to make. Either he made a mistake, or he was forced into picking Lieberman by someone else. If some other group held so much sway over him, that they could make his major decisions for him, I don't know how good of a president he really would have been.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. The special interests, etc., are the other side -- his own party is

supposed to be helping him. He was the nominee. If the party leaders 'suggest' a particular running mate to guarantee financial backing he'd be foolish not to listen - and besides, they were supposed to be on his side. Remember, in 2000 the party looked broken - we had democrats calling for the president's impeachment, and a lot more who were running away from the president. Between the guarantee on financing and the chance to pull the RW moralists back into to fold, he had reason to listen to them. Also, it was not near so clear back then that the DLC was a wing of the Corporate Party rather than a wing of the Democratic Party.

I think he was pressured into that decision, and that it was a mistake (which is self evident). I don't see it as a failure on his part, however. He would have been (and may yet be) an excellent president.

[hughee99]

41. Why?

Assuming he knew that Lieberman wasn't the right guy for the job:

If he wasn't able to convince his own party that they were wrong, why would he be more effective against those with different goals. It should be easier for him to make his case to a willing audience with common goals.

Assuming that he though Lieberman would be okay on the ticket:

It seems like most people here, though some perhaps in hindsight only, say they recognized that Lieberman was a bad candidate right away. How is it that Gore didn't recognize this?

Yes, he was probably pressured into a bad decision by the DLC, but he wasn't forced into it, and at the time, I would agree that there was a compelling case to be made for Lieberman. I think at the time, though many of us may not have been as clear about the motivations of the DLC, Gore should have been much more knowledgeable about their goals and motivations having worked closely with them during the Clinton administration. If someone wants to suggest that selecting Lieberman instead of someone else cost Gore the election (leaving out the election fraud issues, for now), I don't see how he cannot share some of the blame for this.

I'm not trying to crap on Gore here, I like him, I just think Gore made major mistakes in his campaign when it comes to who he surrounded himself with, who's advice he listened to, and who he selected as a running mate.

[endarkenment]

37. I don't absolve Gore of responsibility

He listened to bad advice. I am well aware that the deliberately bad advice from the DLC was not forced on Al.

[hughee99]

45. The post I was responding to stated

"Al was told lieberman was his running mate" which to me make it look very much like he had no say in this, and therefore it wasn't his fault. My issue with this argument was that if Gore didn't have any say in who he picked for his own running mate in a presidential election, than that shows a very screwed up situation in his campaign, where he is not the one making the major decisions. I agree with your assessment (if I'm restating it correctly), that he took bad advice from the DLC who was not looking out for the best interests of either the candidate or the party, and that he does share some of the blame for his decision.

[liberalpragmatist]

44. Gore's Senate Record Was Pretty Similar to Lieberman's

Gore has moved left over the last few years, but it's ridiculous to act like he was some pawn of the DLC. He was a frickin' founder of the DLC! And many of the things people like to ridicule Lieberman for, Gore often did as a Senator as well!

Senator Gore was one of the most hawkish in the Senate and one of the few Democrats (along with Lieberman) to support the First Gulf War.

Senator Gore was heavily supported by the tobacco industry.

Senator Gore and his wife were among the first - like Lieberman - to criticize the entertainment industry.

Senator Gore had a mixed record on gay rights and only a mildly pro-choice voting record.

Gore was also - and to the best of my knowledge, still is - an ARDENT free-trader.

As for the Lewinsky-thing, virtually everyone close to the Gore's said that their own views on the subject were closer to Lieberman's than anybody else's. Tipper Gore was said to have been absolutely disgusted with Clinton and Gore was said to have lost a lot of respect for Clinton as well. As Clinton's Veep, Gore couldn't say anything. Lieberman could.

None of this is to say that I dislike Gore. Nor does this mean that I support Lieberman - he lost the primary and he should withdraw. But people need to stop pretending that Al Gore was some leftist savior who was forced to take Lieberman. The reason he picked Lieberman was because he and Lieberman agreed an awful lot, at least back in 2000.

[izzie]

21. I think he had been very ill. it sticks into my mind

Must go and see what Karr will have for lunch. Sorry

[Odin2005]

24. Gore wanted to distance himself from Clinton because of Monica-gate.

[Yavin4]

25. One Word: MONICA

The campaign wanted a "moral" candidate to run with Gore in order to counter the Clinton scandal years.

[whistle]

28. Bob Graham was squeaky clean, I never did understand Gore's

... picking Joe Lieberman

[AlGore-08.com]

39. Because back in 2000 EVERYBODY loved Joe Lieberman especially the left

Everybody seems to have forgotten what 2000 was actually like now that Smirk's approval ratings are in the toilet. Gore began the campaign 20 points behind, mostly because the right wing media machine was at it's height. The entire Clinton administration was viewed as the most corrupt administration in history. Campaign finance reform was a big issue because people were so disgusted. People who weren't outraged were completely turned off from politics.

Gore was still ten points behind when he picked his running mate.

And his choice was very well received. Back in the day, everybody loved Joe Lieberman. The press especially loved him. Picking Lieberman gave Gore the only uniformly positive press cycle Gore got during the campaign. Arianna Huffington, who now leads the anti-Lieberman crusade, used to be Lieberman's biggest booster. Back in the day, she called him the only Democrat with integrity.

There was a very active whisper campaign in the liberal areas of the country that Gore was a racist, a sexist and a homophobe. (For the record, all untrue.) Both the Nader campaign and major Nader boosters like Michael Moore repeated this charge often. Picking Bob Graham, or any other white, christian, male, would have given the left "proof" that their "Gore's a racist" and "Gore's a sexist" bs was true.

You can't underrate the negative impact of Bill Clinton on the 2000 election. Rove's stated strategy was "to make people see 'Clinton' when they hear 'Gore'". (Even in 2004, the Kerry campaign publicly fretted about how highlighting Clinton would loose them more votes than they gained with swing state moderates.)

There is one issue that we may never know about - - in 1992, one of the reasons that Clinton picked Gore was that Clinton was being attacked for his extra-martial affairs. He needed a running mate who was scandal free, or that running mate could cause him to loose the campaign. (If you don't believe personal scandals can stop a career, go talk to Gary Hart.) Given the intense press focus on Clinton's extra-marital affairs, it would have been uncharacteristic for Rove to refrain from investigating the private lives of the Dem ticket. And since there wasn't even a whisper campaign that either Gore or Lieberman had cheated on their wives, I have always thought that proved Lieberman was free from personal scandals. (Or the press loved him so much they didn't care about whatever personal scandals he might have had.) We do not know whether Bob Graham had any skeletons in his closet.

We do know the press was already ridiculing Graham as a nut case. As I said before, Gore was still 10 points behind when he picked his running mate. Picking one who was already being attacked by the press would have been the nail in the Gore 2000 campaign coffin.

Some actual poll numbers from the 2000 cycle:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/06/cnn.time.poll/index.html

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Likely Voters' Who Do You Think Will Win?
Now June
Bush 68% 55%
Gore 25 34

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Favorable Ratings
Former President Bush 73%
Hillary Clinton 45
Bill Clinton 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
How Clinton Has Handled His Job as President
Approve 57%
Disapprove 40

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Whose Opinions Do You Respect More?
Former President Bush 61%
Bill Clinton 34

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Who Would You Vote For?
Former President Bush 53%
Bill Clinton 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/13/cnn.poll/

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 11-12

Does Vice President Al Gore's ties with President Bill Clinton make you feel more favorably toward Gore or less favorably toward Gore, or do they have no effect on your view of him?

More favorable 7%
Less favorable 32
No effect 60

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 11-12

Please tell me whether you think Al Gore, if elected in November, would do a better job, about the same, or not as good a job as President Clinton in handling the job of president.

Economy Moral Leadership
Better 16% 58%
Worse 17 12
Same 60 27

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/11/cnn.poll/index.html

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
What is your opinion of Vice President Gore?

Yes No
Too close to Clinton 49% 45%
Strong leader 42 49
Someone you admire 40 56

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
Is Gore too close to President Clinton?

Now 1999
Yes 49% 55%
No 45 37

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
As a presidential candidate, do you think Al Gore is more a candidate in his own right, that is based on his qualifications, or more a creation of Bill Clinton choosing him as vice president?

Creation of Clinton 45%
Based on his own
qualifications 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/21/cnn.poll/

As you may know, the independent counsel in the Monica Lewinsky case is assembling a grand jury to decide whether or not to charge Bill Clinton with a crime once he leaves office. Does this make you more or less likely to vote for Al Gore in November?

More likely for Gore 22%
Less likely for Gore 23
No effect 53

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


Additionally, do you think Bill Clinton should or should not be charged in a court of law with a crime for these matters, after he leaves office?

Yes 41%
No 54

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


Do you feel further action against Clinton is needed?

Yes 30%
No 67

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/07/cnn.poll/index.html

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
Lieberman's Criticism of Bill Clinton
More favorable 26%
Less favorable 21
No difference 50

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

[NYCGirl]

42. Thank you for that refreshing dose of reality! NT

[MUSTANG_2004]

43. Graham is no prize

He was a so-so governor who spent too much (he burned through the surplus left by the former governor, Reubin Askew). For the curious, Askew was a great governor who would probably have made a good president, but he didn't get very far in the 1984 primaries.

My main beef with Bob Graham is his voting for the first Gulf war.

[endarkenment]

46. Gee I don't recall that 'especially the left' loved Lieberman.

I personally couldn't stand the arrogant whiney asshat. If especially the left appeared to be fond of anybody running in that race it was especially fond of Ralph Nader who was at least willing to stand for policies that were not totally center-right bullshit, but that is a whole other debate.

Lieberman was not chosen for his appeal to the left wing of the Democratic Party. Your headline is ridiculous, nor does your polling data indicate any such thing.

[Nimrod2005]

40. Because the good Lord wanted humanity to suffer for 8 years

so that later, humanity can go heaven!!!