I Bought A Pistol Today - And I'm Still Astonished

[ThomWV]

I bought a pistol today. I don't much have any use for them anymore but my wife wanted one. She's been around guns all her life of course. She wants a gun, she gets a gun. Who am I to say no?

I haven't bought a gun in years, I thought it was harder to get one these days than it used to be. Wrong!

On the way home from an errand earlier this morning I stopped by the local everything-store to take a look at their enormous stock of pistols. I found one I liked and I bought it. 9mm stainless Beretta, no cheap pimp gun.

So now I fill out the form. No big deal. I never did much wrong, never got tossed in jail for more than a day or two, never hospitalized for drug addiction or insanity, and born in this country too. They called it in, to whom I have not a clue. I passed in 30 seconds. On-line credit checks do not come any quicker.

I thought there was a 3-day wait, or some similar period, associated with the sale of handguns. Nope. Cash or check? I wrote a check. Now, get this. This is scary.

When I was writing the kid behind the counter the check it occurred to me that I didn't have enough money in the bank to cover it. That's not a problem. My small town credit union is such that all I had to do was call in and transfer a couple of hundred bucks into the checking account. The line was busy and I get an answering machine. Ok, I hang up. So I look at the kid, and I sort of jokingly say, "well, look at that, guess I'll stick the money into the account tomorrow, blah blah blah ...." But the point was the check was no good.

So the kid rings up the sale, takes the check, sticks the brand new 9mm in a bag along with the box of bullets I just bought and out the door I walk. No wait. And I had just told the son of a bitch the check was no good.

Now I don't want to bitch too much about the lack of hassle I got today, that part was nice. And make no mistake, my dam-near 60-year-old countenance probably doesn't raise too much alarm in this more rural than you can imagine area, but still - it really should be a little harder than that.

For Christ's sake ... I told him the check was no good and he gave me the gun anyway. Never mind that when I got home I completed the phone call and covered the check. I wasn't trying to screw anyone here. I just wanted you all to know how absurdly easy it is to get a gun in this country.

[Book Lover]

1. Maybe in West Verginia

Here in California only those acting outside the law get their guns that quickly.

Berettas are nice weapons; I'm sure your wife will have fun at the range.

[Spinzonner]

2. Probably assumed that you wouldn't say something like that

if you didnt plan to cover it and that they'd get the money anyway. And didn't want to lose the sale to some other retailer.

[MissB]

3. That is frightening.

(not the part about you actually buying the pistol)

You'd think that it'd be a red flag if someone comments that their check isn't any good. :rofl:

[davepc]

4. You passed the Federal background check

and you're astonished they didn't give you a hard time? The call was to the FIB.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nicsfact.htm

Located at the FBI's Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, the NICS Section processes background checks for the FFLs in those states that have declined to serve as POCs for the NICS. The FFLs conducting business in these states will contact the NICS either by telephone, via one of two contracted call centers, or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet. When contacting the NICS by telephone, the FFL will provide the prospective After contacting the NICS, via two contracted call centers, either by telephone or electronically by the NICS E-Check System via the Internet, FFLs will provide the descriptive information provided on the ATF Form 4473, which is required by law to be completed and signed by every prospective firearm transferee. The prospective firearm transferee's descriptive information is required descriptive , the FFL will receive a response that the transfer may proceed or is delayed. This response is typically provided within 30 seconds.

If no matching records are returned by any of the databases, the transaction is automatically proceeded. If the NICS returns a match of the prospective firearm transferee's descriptive information to that of record information located in any of the databases, the FFL is advised that the transaction is delayed. While the FFL is still on the telephone, the call is placed on hold and transferred to the NICS Section in Clarksburg, West Virginia, for a quick review and evaluation by an FBI NICS Legal Instruments Examiner (NICS Examiner). If the record information returned by the NICS presents a valid match to the descriptive information of the prospective firearm transferee, the NICS Examiners, who have access to protected information (as opposed to Call Center personnel who do not have such access) reviews the information if state and federal firearm prohibitive criteria exists. If the information matched by the NICS is not a valid match or no prohibitive criteria exists, the FBI NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to PROCEED with the firearm transaction. The FFL must record the NICS Transaction Number (NTN) on the ATF Form 4473 and retain the form for auditing purposes.

If it is determined that prohibitive criteria exists, the FBI NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DENY the firearm transaction. If potentially prohibitive criteria exists and more information is required in order to make the determination, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DELAY the firearm transaction and the call is concluded. The FFL must record the NTN on the ATF Form 4473 and retain the form for auditing purposes.

When a transaction is DELAYED, the FBI NICS Examiner begins extensive research on the potential prohibitor. When the research is complete, the FBI NICS Examiner calls the FFL and gives a PROCEED or DENY decision on the firearm transaction.

[fujiyama]

5. Wow

That's something.

I remember I used to work retail at a sporting goods store. They would have the salesperson come with the customer to purchase the gun (I was a cashier). If you don't mind me asking what store was this? That policy is really lax.

[ThomWV]

8. Local Store

Half of the upstairs (street level) is gun shop and fishing stuff, the other half is a grocery store, downstairs (lower parking lot and back door) its hardware and some appliances. They sell everything but feed and fuel.

[Lusted4]

6. Now that you have posted, go back tomorrow and try to buy another. n/t

[ThomWV]

9. Do I Look Like I'm Made Of Money

Dam things aren't cheap.

[enigami]

7. They are hard to get in some gun grabbing meccas

why should it be harder? you said yourself you were clean and they checked you out. Would you have preferred to get finger printed, have a physiological test or wait to "cool off" for a few days.

Did you get the full size Beretta. My wifes hands are too small for that gun.

[napi21]

16. I have to agree. If you're record is clean, you're good to go.

I think you should make your experience VERY WELL KNOWN! Maybe it would put an end to the constant bitching by the NRA!

[slackmaster]

10. Dealer called the National Instant Check System (NICS)

A federal database of people who are known to be prohibited from owning a firearm.

Sometimes a sale may be delayed because of a close match, e.g. someone in the database who has the same name as you. The three day period is the maximum you can be made to wait while the authorities figure out whether or not you are the prohibited person.

I wasn't trying to screw anyone here. I just wanted you all to know how absurdly easy it is to get a gun in this country.

It SHOULD be easy to get a gun, unless you belong to a prohibited category. In that case it should be impossible to get it from a legal source.

The system is working properly.

[benburch]

11. I can buy any gun here in Chicago...

No wait. No background check. Cash only.

The underground gun market is SO robust that any controls on lawful buyers would seem futile.

[dusmcj]

12. 3-6 months in NY

including local LEO signoff, local background check, FBI background check. Every handgun you buy gets listed on your license. Be in possession of your handguns without your license, lose your handguns and your license. Be in possession of your handguns with your license in a venue not listed as approved on your license, lose your handguns and your license.

If the federal NICS check you went through (what the kid called in) ensured that basic information pertinent to it, including convictions and mental health certifications, were reliably available, that would be a much bigger accomplishment than throwing amateur roadblocks in your way like waiting periods.

But that would require fedgov to get its shit together regarding data collection and data privacy as they pertain to private citizens. Instead it's much easier to emote about "terror" and "for the children" as cover for farting around trying to quash administration critics and chill free speech. More government as Romper Room for the privileged, indolent and self-satisfied.

[slackmaster]

21. 10 day wait here in California

But not for me because I have a Federal Firearms License. It's good only for curios and relics, but that's what I collect. I have them shipped from wholesalers directly to my house.

[dusmcj]

25. fed AWB had nothing to do with this

(this should have been a reply to the posts about the AWB further down the list, not the preceding post)

the federal assault weapons ban which expired September 2004 made illegal under federal law the civilian possession of semiautomatic (firing one shot per trigger pull, vs. fully-automatic machine guns which have been strictly controlled since 1934 under the federal national firearms act) long guns (rifles and shotguns) and pistols which featured a detachable magazine (for faster reloading) and two or more functional features, some of which were purely cosmetic (flash hiders and bayonet lugs), and some of which made for a more easily concealable or faster-handling gun (e.g. collapsible stocks and pistol grips). Still only one shot per trigger pull, just like Dad's deer rifle or revolver.

As an aside, repeated studies including ones by the department of justice, showed that the fed AWB had no effect on crime, probably based on the fact that semiautomatic assault weapons are rarely used in crime to begin with.

The presence or absence of the federal AWB would have had no effect on the initial poster's buying experience, which was instead largely a venue for state laws about gun (and particularly handgun) possession and purchase (and the relative lack of them in West Virginia as opposed to many other states). The federal component was the filling out of the federal 4473 purchase record, and the call in to the federal NICS instant check system to verify his suitability for buying a gun. (Federal law mandates that felons, certified mental incompetents and people under orders of protection for example may not own firearms; most states' firearms laws mirror federal law unless they're more restrictive.)

FFL holders and others with definitive knowledge please don't consider me an asshole for errors above, please point them out instead, I'm just a responsible private firearms owner.

In case you're suspecting it, I'll confirm that I think gun control is another arena where neither party can find its ass with both hands and a flashlight; it's abused as a venue for grandstanding and pandering, and while there's a high emphasis on responding to perceived public emotion, there's a tragic absence of objective thought and the resulting rational policy that would arise from it.

[Clutch Cargo]

Seems to me that you told him that he need not worry

You said to him that the check would be covered for funds the next day. The kid probably reasoned that it usually takes a min of 3 days for the check to clear, unless they deposit in the same bank as you, which is moot, because then the weekend will put the clearance on hold. :shrug:

[ingac70]

13. I'm glad it is easy to get a gun.....

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,)


"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." (Tench Coxe in 'Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution' under the Pseudonym 'A Pennsylvanian' in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1)

[OffWithTheirHeads]

33. Yup! Pretty much agrees

with this old hippies pholosophy. The right to bear arms is what insures our liberty.

[NNN0LHI]

14. Quick return it and get your money back

Use the money to take your wife out for a nice steak dinner, a good movie, and buy her some nice stuff. Otherwise you guys will shoot the thing a few times getting stinky gunpowder all over your clothes and self and then put it somewhere and forget where its at. They are usually a waste of money. Good luck. Enjoy your dinner you guys.

Don

[sandnsea]

15. AWB expired

Which may have something to do with why it was so easy now, as opposed to a few years ago. But I really don't know for a fact. I'm glad they're at least doing the background checks though, that's something.

The bad check thing, that's just funny. If your check clears the little scan system, that's all that matters.

[slackmaster]

22. Expired assault weapons ban had no effect on process of a sale

It merely put a 10-year moratorium on manufacturing new firearms with certain features.

[sandnsea]

23. Okay

Which law added the federal background check, and whatever went with it, that my brain is just too tired to remember right now.

[dusmcj]

26. same package IIRC, Clinton (omnibus ?) crime bill of 1994

also introduced the NICS insta-check system

[sandnsea]

29. I remember that

Gave us cops on the street and midnight basketball, right?

[slackmaster]

35. Brady Act created federal background check

NICS is part of the permanent implementation, which took effect in 1999 IIRC.

Before NICS, the temporary provisions of the Brady Act required a 5-day wait. That went away when NICS went online.

There are problems with NICS, mostly with states' failure to supply all the required data. The other big issue IMO is that NICS is not available to non-licensed individuals (people who aren't gun dealers) who have used firearms to sell.

[Servotron]

17. Almost would have been worth the $20 check bouncing fee to find out what

...would happen if the check actually did bounce. Would they attempt to reposess the gun? Call the cops? The FBI? or do anything at all.

You mention that you filled out a form, but not whether or not they asked for a photo ID. If they didn't, then you could have been using a stolen checkbook, for all they knew. And that's the part that would concern me, based on your description of the events.

And here I thought the gun show loophole was the biggest problem with guns falling into the wrong hands (not you, of course)

[NoAmericanTaliban]

18. Do they still ask about drug use?

Believe that was part of some anti-pot crudade years ago to catch smokers. Guess they don't care if you are drunk off your ass when buying a gun.

[slackmaster]

20. Yes

Anyone who is addicted to, or an illegal user of drugs is disqualified.

[no_more_rhyming]

19. Why buy a "cheap pimp gun".

When you can get a nice one for free?

[HockeyMom]

24. Twice I was almost burglarized in NYC

The first time I was working as a dressmaker in a small shop. I was ironing a dress I had made. The man came in and took the cash out of the register, flashing a knife. I stood there and let him take it. However, when he started walking toward ME, I threw the hot steam iron at him. The ironing board went flying as I just yanked the iron from its socket. The hot water splashed all over, and the iron went smashing into the window. It was almost funny the look of sheer terror on the man's face as he ran out of the store.

The second time was in our home. We were sleeping in the upstairs bedroom when I woke up to the sound downstairs. A man had smashed open our downstairs window and was trying to crawl through the small window. My husband got up and went to the closet to get his gun and load it. It was kept unloaded because we had a small child at the time. While he was trying very hard to load the gun quickly, I pushed out the window fan we had in our bedroom window. It went crashing down to the yard below. The noise this window fan made on its way down was enough to wake the DEAD. It just missed hitting the burglar, who, of course, fled in a PANIC.

Guns? Who needs GUNS when you have steam irons and fans?????

[dusmcj]

27. with reflexes like that, think what you could do with a gun

just playing devil's advocate, expecting imminent stoning:evilgrin:

Medeco lock, pry plate and jimmy bar, 1st & 81st, 1989. What a wonderful town.:puke:

[Hubert Flottz]

28. Hell they've been spying on you for five years they know more...

about you than you know!

[Nimrod2005]

30. It is the American fucken' way!!!

Enjoy...

[B Calm]

31. Easier than getting a driver's license, amazing..

[slackmaster]

36. Er, you have to have a driver's license or other ID in order to buy a gun

You need to get a valid form of identification before you can even try to buy a gun, therefore the process of getting a gun is more involved than getting a driver's license.

[LiviaOlivia]

32. May I suggest this site:

http://liberalswithguns.com/

Please try these good people. They can answer questions.

[benEzra]

34. Did you know Beretta is the world's oldest company?

Founded in 1526, IIRC (in Renaissance Italy); made high-quality guns then and still make them now. Amazingly, the company is still owned and operated by the Beretta family.

Berettas are very well made firearms. I'd like to have one myself.

[mongo]

37. At least you didn't say

I'll just knock off a couple of gas stations on the way home, then I'll have the money to cover the check -- can I get a box of ammo too?