If a draft was started, whould you ship your teenager out of the country?

[trumad]

I know I would. There is no way that I would allow my kids to fight a neo-cons war. No way!

[kimmerspixelated]

1. Is the canadian border still open

for that kind of escape? I mean I'm with ya, and I think a draft is def. coming, but, I thought I read a few years back that some kind of agreement had been made with Canada to ix-nay all of that, which is another reason, if true, to begin impeachment procedures!

[serryjw]

26. You read correctly

After 9-11, before the invasion * sign an agreement with Paul Martin. It has been challenged in Canada and I don't think any soliers were allowed to stay.
quote.....
While the U.S. military considers them criminals and some Americans would call them traitors, the Canadian government has not taken an official position, waiting instead for the courts to decide if the deserters can stay. On the streets of Toronto, 35,000 people have signed a petition to grant the ex-service members amnesty.
end quote......
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20060807111843444

[RB TexLa]

2. Reason number 468,873 I'm glad I do not raise children n/t

[kimmerspixelated]

5. I went for 40 years

without a child. Thought I'd hate being a parent, or would be a bad parent.. BUT....it was the most wonderful thing that ever happened. You become more of yourself, when you have someone else to take care of. Selfishness is not the greatest thing on earth.

[RB TexLa]

6. That is your choice, I see no reason for you to insult me by calling

my choice "selfish"

[kimmerspixelated]

58. I apologize profusely.

I didn't mean to come across that way, at all. I will edit more closely next time.

[chastitybeaverhausen]

12. Excuse me...

but why is choosing to be childless selfish? I CHOSE to not have children and I certainly don't consider myself to be selfish, nor do I think my friends with children would consider me so. Certainly no more selfish than the people who choose to have children and then don't care to put in the time and effort to raise decent human beings. Why do some consider having a child such a selfless act?

[cynatnite]

23. Sometimes having a child is selfish...

I've met a few new moms who had their babies for all the wrong reasons. They had disaster written all over them.

Like my mother always said 'you don't miss what you don't have'. It's a choice and no one should be made to feel guilty because they chose not to have children for a variety of reasons. My brother-in-law and his wife decided not to have children and the last two reunions they were peppered with 'when are you going to have children' by quite a few people. I felt really bad for them and they wound up leaving early because of it.

[serryjw]

27. So few are good parents

they would have been better off NOT having them. I knew I would not be a good parent and I didn't CHOOSE to have any. I made the right decision.

[WernhamHogg]

63. My husband and I get that, too

We have been married for 5 years and we have been together for 9 years. At the moment we don't have children, we haven't felt ready, but we are considering trying soon. I got so sick of the "when are you going to have children" questions that I started responding with "when we get a cage big enough to keep them in". That put an end to the questions and as a bonus, people stopped asking us to babysit!

;-)

[MissB]

19. You were doing just fine until you said "selfish".

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. I chose not to have children...

because I would make a CRAP mother - period. And that is selfishness?? All this time I was doing some poor kid a favor by not bringing them into this world and then fucking them up. :shrug:

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. I sometimes wish my mother had made that choice, but I guess it

was better just to bail on a 2 year old and a 6 mo. old. Her conscious didn't bother her, she wasn't the one that had to endure evil stepmothers and their evil kids. Thanks a bunch "mom"! Love ya! :sarcasm:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. You know what else isn't the greatest thing on earth?

Self-aggrandizing.

[Selatius]

47. Who are you to look down upon another's personal choice?

You are just another person. You are not higher than he is, and he is not higher than you are, yet you cast judgment upon him as if you were standing on a mountain above him. You should be ashamed for prejudging your fellow person as "selfish."

[kimmerspixelated]

59. To all of you I am very very sorry.

I came across the wrong way and I am ashamed.

[lutefisk]

60. Just wait till we drag you to the Pillory and Stocks Forum!

Seriously, I understand how life changing having a child can be, especially later in life. I think sometimes parents just wish everyone could share the experience.

As someone else said, "You were doing just fine until you said selfish." :hide: :blush: :pals:

[marions ghost]

57. some people might see

NOT having children as less "selfish." (Making the world a better place for your child).

This attitude really bugs me about parents--like there's some deficit in pwople who do not have children. My favorite aunt in the world had no children. She was wonderful to us as kids. :-(

[vanboggie]

3. Yup

Mine marches against the regime, so she wouldn't let them take her anyway.

[H2O Man]

4. Yes.

My children would not fight for Halliburton or AIPAC.

[Extend a Hand]

7. Yes

We would all leave.

[conflictgirl]

8. Absolutely, and I'd go with them

I have 3 boys, the oldest is almost 9 years old. We tell them about the war and why some people support it and why we don't. So far they are pacifists. They have said they would consider fighting a war for a cause they believe in, and I would support them in doing so, but none of the recent wars are ones that are based on causes that make sense.

I'm doing a dangerous thing in the eyes of the neocons: raising children to think for themselves and question what they're told.

[tnlefty]

52. I also have 3 sons the oldest is 16 and the mention of bringing back

a draft makes my palms sweat. We attend local peace rallies and the youngest went to protest with me in DC. The oldest has already stated that he would go to jail rather than be drafted, but I didn't have them so that some day because of a bunch of f*@#ed up repubs they'd have to make a decision like that.

I'm not sure how we'd all be able to leave, but I guess I'd figure it out. All that I do know is that if the draft is reinstated, the first thing that I will do is spit in the faces of all of our repug, Bush** votin', war supportin' relatives.

[warrens]

9. I took my kid to Montreal in July

We looked over McGill. Just in case. I have family nearby and they would give her a place to live.

[cynatnite]

10. If my teen refused to serve, I would n/t

[Donnachaidh]

11. you bet your ass we'd be gone

much like all the spawn of Congress

[Cleita]

13. Yes, as long as we are at war and as long as the neo-cons are

in power. I want our whole concept of military and what constitutes acceptable military action completely redone before I would allow them to take my children.

[scarletwoman]

14. In a heartbeat. I made sure my youngest son got a passport years ago.

He's now 22, so the decision to leave the country would be his alone to make, of course -- but I would do everything in my power to encourage and assist him to do so.

He and I have discussed this possibility ever since he had to register with the Selective Service, and we have made some loose contingency plans that we can activate fairly quickly should the need arise. His life will NOT be surrendered to the Empire.

sw

[Kermitt Gribble]

15. Age Limit?

What do you think the age limit would be since they raised the eligibility age to enlist in the military? I'm 35, with no children, and am thinking of leaving myself if a draft were instated. Although, I would go to the Caribbean or Mexico, if possible, instead of Canada.

[warrens]

17. 34, I think

But who knows? If all the youngns split for Canada and Europe, they'll come after your ass for sure.

[cynatnite]

18. It's 40 years of age...

if a person goes active duty. 41 for National Guard and Reserves.

[Lars39]

35. No, it's 42, now.

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:Us9FEOLR4XQJ:www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php%3Fstory_id_key%3D9197+raised+enlistment+age+to+42&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a

[newyawker99]

42. Hi Toonces27!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[paparush]

44. The age limit for ENLISTMENT was raised to 42

Army raises enlistment age

FORT KNOX, Ky. (Army News Service, June 22, 2006) – The Army has raised the enlistment age to 42, made possible under provisions of the Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act.

The Army raised the active-duty age limit to 40 in January as an interim step while it worked out the additional medical screening requirements for recruits ages 40 to 42. Before January, an applicant could not have reached his or her 35th birthday. The Army Reserve age limit was raised from 35 to 40 in March 2005.

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=9197

[paparush]

46. Our son is 11. We talk about going to Belize.

We spent a month in Belize in 2004. Amazing place.

[Philosoraptor]

16. yes

[Wwagsthedog]

21. Get your teenager a passport, NOW! nt

[elehhhhna]

22. I have daughters. They didn't pass ERA, they're not drafting my girls.

Period.

We'll horn in on some Dutch rel's if necessary.

[Jim Warren]

24. When he was 15 I said never, no way.......

now he's 17 and I think I'm gonna enlist him myself. :sarcasm:

(hey, it's a joke)

[mucho macho]

25. the only person

who proposed a draft was Charlie Rangel (D-NY) so a draft is highly doubtful.

[NNN0LHI]

28. No

If five deferments were good enough for Cheney they would be good enough for my kid.

Don

[TheCentepedeShoes]

29. I never had children

I had my reasons, some of which have been noted by others above. None of the reasons had to do with possible military service.
But, to answer your question, and in the present situation, definitely yes !
I was in HS in the 60's and my class has a reunion coming up in a couple of weeks
I wonder, in our RW burg, if there will be a reciting of the Vietnam dead?

[Jed Dilligan]

30. I wish it was that simple--just a repeat of the Vietnam draft.

This will be a new, different draft... Sucking in older folks as well as teens... Drafting people based on "needed skills," etc.

No more deferments for college.

It's going to be ugly. They can have my dead body if they want me over there.

[TheCentepedeShoes]

33. Joking with Mr 'pede today

They're accepting raw recruits up to age 42. With his 4 years in Navy (Seals training) and Army from around 1960, when are they going to call you?

[Jed Dilligan]

34. I'm trained as a cartographer

and can analyze air photos

:scared:

[TheCentepedeShoes]

38. I think cartography

is a fascinating science. If knew of a ranch in Canada to hide you on, I would tell you. But I don't.

[calimary]

31. In a heartbeat.

NOBODY'S shipping my kids off to Iraq.

Fortunately, they're both peaceniks who wouldn't go without a fight, regardless what their mom did.

[lanlady]

32. Yes

His father and I have plans to send our 22-yr-old to live with friends in Quebec if the draft is reinstated. We are not sacrificing the wonderful young man we raised to Bush's wars of choice.

[RagAss]

36. I already got my kids out of the country....no murdering, power

hungry bastards are taking my blood from me.....

[mcar]

37. We've got family in Switzerland

My 19 YO would be attending college there.

[guinivere]

40. Yes. I would take my sons and leave.

[sofa king]

41. I'd tell my kid exactly what my old man told me.

He said, "Boy, if you want to stand in line for the rest of your life, you go right ahead."

To my eighteen-year old mind, that argument made much more sense than "you could get killed," (Me? I'm ten feet tall and bulletproof!) or "you might have to do evil" (as I listened to my favorite album, Iron Maiden's "Number of the Beast"). I was amoral, indestructible, jingoistic, fearless and convinced I was gonna die before I hit 25, anyway.

But I really didn't like the idea of being bored.

Pops is a really, really clever fellow when he has to be--and I hope one or more of you takes a page out of his book. Dangle that idea next to a one-way ticket to Amsterdam, and I guarantee you which one your kid will take.

[HereSince1628]

43. No, because it'd be the teens choice to make not mine.

I'd let him/her face the same problem I looked at when presented with a low draft number.

Now I'll admit, I don't have teen-agers, my kids are in their late 20's and early 30's. I approach their jobs, their partners, and their dreams the same way. They own them, not me. They make the choices, not me. It's a matter of repect.

[Yupster]

56. I'm surprised your view is the minority here Heresince

Posters talk so casually about shipping their 22 year old son here or there as if it's their decision to make.

On other topics, DU'ers seem nearly unanimous that teens are pefectly capable of making their own major decisions and parents should butt out and often not even be told the teen has a major decision to be made, and now all of the sudden it seems acceptable for parents to make major decisions for their teens or older kids. Very odd.

[CBGLuthier]

45. My 16 year old son went to Europe this summer

I told him to check the place out because he might be living there soon.

He has an aunt and uncle in France and an aunt and cousins his age and older in Switzerland so we have lots of options. :-)

[Selatius]

50. Make sure he brushes up on the French language

We've got to prepare while there's still time.

Even if a draft never comes to pass, it doesn't hurt to learn the language if he's going to be in Europe for an extended time; it's a beautiful language at any rate.

;)

[TechBear_Seattle]

48. Conscientious objector status

I will really, really try to get this updated this weekend.

http://www.serv.net/~techbear/writings/FAQ-CO.html

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. Of course I would

This is not a situation of brave young Americans giving their lives for freedom, but rather giving their lives for big oil and the ego of a man who refuses to admit failure.

I'll not sacrifice my child to either of those causes.

[malaise]

51. The more important issue is

obtaining another nationality for your kids.
add.

[Joe Fields]

53. I simply cannot understand why ANYONE in their right mind

would sign up to go into the armed forces these days. NOR could I understand how ANYONE would allow themselves to be drafted, were a draft instituted, which I believe there will be.

My 18 year old son refuses to leave the country, if a draft is instituted. But he has said on numerous occasions that there is no way in HELL he will serve the Bush administration.

[Yupster]

54. Wouldn't that be your teenagers' choice?

At what age do you let them start making their major decisions in life?

[mainer]

55. What if no country will take him?

I had this discussion with my sons. They both said they'd just go to jail. Can you imagine hundreds of thousands of young American men being arrested and sent to detention centers across the country? That's the sort of media event that would end a war quick.

[BeHereNow]

62. Already discussed this- she will do prison time before she will serve

The passports are now being chipped- they have been since
January 2006.
That would be because they have already thought of
a mass defection should military service be made
mandatory.
We have some time- they are going to continue to
use up immigrants to fill the ranks- they already
promise people citizenship for serving.
There will continue to be the "serve time in prison
or the military" for people who are arrested and stand
before a judge for what ever crime.
Eventually though, they will come after who ever is left over-
when it gets to that point, I have already told my daughter
that I will support her decision to serve time rather than corporate empire.
I am hoping the rest of America will make that decision too.
There is no way they could imprison all the sons and
daughters of the US.
THAT is what will bring the empire down.
BHN

[depakid]

64. If had a teenager I'd get them out of America period

For dozens of reasons, there's not much future here.

Canada on the other hand....

[SmokingJacket]

65. Yes!

I'm not sacrificing my kids for a bullshit war.

[Raydawg1234]

66. What if everyone that got drafted said that they were gay?

What would happen?

[hunter]

67. Following the example of the First Family we should send our kids to war.

Do you people forget so soon how Jen and Barb Bush were instrumental in the heroic assault and capture of Saddam Hussein??? How Jen, when she ran out of bullets used her rifle to club to death at least thirty of Saddam's evil henchman,just before her brave sister dropped in out of the sky wearing a top-secret jet pack and rescued her, how they were awarded medals for their courage by their father on the lawn of the White House?

If only you librel morans could be so brave.

God Bless America!