Have Christo-fascists ever started any wars or held mass executions?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

:rofl:

[Greyhound]

1. Gahk! ya got me!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[winter999]

2. Yah. How many Christian suicide bombers?

How many Christians went on a murderous riot when the last Jesus cartoon ran in some paper?

[ComerPerro]

5. Its not that they wouldn't. Its that they can't

one, they are cowards and wouldn't do it.

and two, radicals don't get away with nearly as much in this country.

They want muslims and non-believers dead.

They are just too lazy to do it.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. How many witches were burned?

:rofl:

[Igel]

14. Precious few.

But some.

[Greyhound]

22. You need to do some research my friend.

The actual number is impossible to determine due to a lack of records, but literally millions of women were tortured, burned, and killed in the most heinous ways for hundreds of years. There are many books available on the topic at your local library (unless your live in KS or some similar backward state that practices book banning).

Compared to the so-called Christians, Hitler, Stalin, Bin Laden, Amin, Pol Pot etc. are pathetic amateurs.

[hfojvt]

25. don't be dissing Kansas. We have this:

http://www.greyhoundhalloffame.com/

I would also suggest "Our Haunted World" by Carl Sagan for an over-view of the scope of witch hunts. Otherwise most people are going to think "Salem witch trials" which did not have many more casualties than the "Boston Massacre"

[Greyhound]

29. That's true and Wichita is the center of the flying world too.

As a native Coloradoan, it is in my genes to rag on Kansas, forgive me.

You can read the churches own confession to the inhumanity of its practices in The Malleus Maleficarum. Called one of the most blood-soaked works in human history. :toast:

[hfojvt]

38. Coloradans ragging on Kansas?

Why, when Utah is so close and so much redder. I used to be fond of my neighboring states like Minnesota and Iowa until I actually lived there, and Missouri seems like a drag on Kansas, except for my siblings who live there.

My guess is that Malleus Maleficarum is not going to be available at the average small town library, unlike Sagan. I wonder if the local Catholic church has a copy.

[Greyhound]

51. Yeah, but they don't have a football team...

Although I suppose technically KS doesn't have one either and MO has two, but Kansans claim them. Arrowhead is on the MO side isn't it?

[loudestchick]

55. yes it is...and we all pay for it with bi-state taxes

whether you can afford the minimum $50.00/ tkt or not. Most of us...not.

[SidDithers]

49. It's Demon Haunted World...

but you're right, it's an excellent read.

Sid

[Ms. Clio]

54. What a joke

A conservative estimate of the number of women burned as witches in Europe is 50,000, and the numbers were undoubtedly much higher.

[Fleshdancer]

8. not a suicide bomb but the pipe bombs thrown into abortion clinics

for religious reasons comes to mind. At the end of the day, a bomb is a bomb. Does it make it worse if it's strapped onto the psychotic fundamentalist instead of thrown through a window?

[leftchick]

18. well he wasn't a suicider

but he was a home grown, christo-fascist terrorist!

[hfojvt]

27. raised Catholic and took extreme unction

but did he ever claim to be Christian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

[Bill McBlueState]

34. he must have

I don't know why a non-Christian would have any use for a Catholic sacrament. :shrug:

[hfojvt]

40. in the fundy world, he could be a CINO

Christian in name only. Lots of people goto church for a variety of reasons - family tradition, socializing, connections. Facing death, some might take the Sacrament as a "just in case" CYA thing to do. He did his bombing because he was all upset about Waco, but most fundies I know did not have alot of respect for Koresh - saw him as a child-abusing cult leader, rather than one of their own. I was attending fundy churches at the time and heard nothing positive about him.

[leftchick]

48. excuse me?

You are saying that Catholics are not Christian? That would be a shock to my parrish Priest.

:eyes:

[hfojvt]

56. I never said that

But just because he was raised Catholic, does not mean, in my eyes, that he stayed Catholic and taking the last sacrament could be nothing more than going through the motions.

[The Stranger]

23. Martyrdom originated with Christians fighting the Crusades.

The thought that you could go to heaven dying fighting a holy war against your unholy enemy is patented by Christianity.

As far as the first suicide bomber -- it was Samson. Go read your Bible.

[ieoeja]

53. Islam tenant long before the Crusades. n/t

[The Stranger]

63. There was no verb in that sentence. Cannot understand.

[baldguy]

24. Christians don't riot when Jesus is insulted.

They go bomb someone.

[JNelson6563]

28. No need for that

Since this "Christian nation" also happens to have the most powerful army the world has ever known. We can just go and obliterate anyone we want and slowly try to take over those countries with assets worth sparing (like Eye-rack).

The intellectual dishonesty of your comparison is stunning.

Julie

[Warren DeMontague]

36. No, when they bomb abortion clinics they run away from the blast.

That way, they're free to blow up another one.

[leesa]

50. Duh! Do you think it might be because people are constantly bombing and

invading Muslim countries? You think they might have developed a bit of a hypersensitivity for a REASON???

[ComerPerro]

3. You mean the ones who support the Iraq war because

it is the first required step to reach Armageddon, the end times, and the Rapture?

No, gee, that's just crazy.

[jrandom421]

4. How about...

the Crusades? (God Wills It!) Or how about the Spanish Inquisition? Or the 30 Year War? I could go on, but I think this does for a start.

[Igel]

21. I'd go for the Inquisition in this category.

Not most of the others. To put them in the same category with the Inquisition is to put almost every Christian war in the category of 'Christo-fascist', and then most every Muslim war has to go into "Islamo-fascist". After all, the Crusades were derivative (even the Inquisition was, in large part).

I don't think that's the proper way to lump things, and I don't think the original poster believes most thinking people that use "Islamofascist" perform such a lumping.

Idiots on both sides do such lumping; DUers frequently insist that all fundies and evangelicals are wannabe theocrats, and freepers frequently insist that all Muslims want the Caliphate to be reinstated so it can kick Western butt.

[rman]

7. Hitler played the religion card pretty strongly

[BrotherBuzz]

11. In spades!

Almost immediately after Hitler's seizure of power in 1933, Protestant Christians faced pressure to "aryanize" the Church, expel Jewish Christians from the ordained ministry and adopt the Nazi "Führer Principle" as the organizing principle of church government. In general, the churches succumbed to these pressures, and some Christians embraced them willingly. The pro-Nazi "German Christian" movement became a force in the church. They glorified Adolf Hitler as a "German prophet" and preached that racial consciousness was a source of revelation alongside the Bible.

[Igel]

19. Tyrants are ever thus.

Well, mostly. When they think they need help.

Lenin openly courted and assisted sectarians, promising them the moon in exchange for their support. They'd smuggle Baptist and non-Orthodox Bibles into Russia, and use the same routes and messengers to carry Bolshevik literature printed in Switzerland and Germany. You have to read stuff *printed* in the early '20s to run across people like Lunacharsky bragging about being allied with the religious fundies of their day. The Party turned on them later--and Stalin just out-and-out killed them. Until, of course, the German invasion, when all of a sudden the Mother Church became crucial to the war effort.\

Similarly, Saddam bribed the Salafists with huge mosque-building campaigns and Islamicizing the Iraqi flag. But only after 1991.

China doesn't need help. So they merely tolerate some religions, even Xian ones, as long as they recognize that Christ may be King of kings, but the Chinese Communist Party is really in charge. Sort of the emperor over the King of kings.

BTW, later, Nazi posters showing nuns and hookers, saying they were both basically women lost to the German people, were also printed and posted.

[hyphenate]

9. MMMMMMMM

Yes. Most of them, actually.

[ck4829]

10. Happened in Latin America all the time

The 60's and 70's saw a spree of dictators take over the region, there were a lot of non-Christian Indians in the area. Missionaries helped in their genocide against them.

[gula]

17. Way earlier Jesuits actually worked for the good of the Indians

I let you guess what happened to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit_Reductions

[Solomon]

12. You mean dropping Moabs and Shock and Awe on an

innocent population doesn't qualify?

Wow! How delusional must we be to maintain our "we are the good guys" bullshit?

[leeroysphitz]

13. Like they're going out of style!

Which I wish they would.

[Hardrada]

15. How about how Norway was "converted/"

Become a Xian now or we will chop your head off. Said St. Olaf!

[Nikki Stone 1]

16. Bombing abortion clinics, killing doctors providing abortions

Targeting their families and children on websites.

It's a start. Giv'm time. If an evil administration (like the current one) needs them to start killing people en masse, they are pre-programmed, armed, and ready to go.

[warrens]

20. You mean the Crusades?

Or the Spanish Inquisition?

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Got A Question About That

While i don't deny that Christo-Fascist is an apt descriptor, i'm wondering why islamofascist is seen as such an insult, but chistofascist is considered appropriate.

Any thoughts on why one is an insult and the other is valid?
The Professor

[Proud2BAmurkin]

30. Check my posts. I use Christo fascist AND Islamofascist

but your point is well taken.....I only get shit for "Islamofascist"

[ProfessorGAC]

32. Thanks For Getting The Point Of The Question

I think it's because the idiot right uses islamofascist and never the other, and if they use the term it must be bad! Not that i can't understand that latter sentiment. It's my POV too. If they think it, it must be wrong!

But, here at DU, either both are wrong, or neither are, as long as the question is motivated in the search of truth, and not out of bigotry.
The Professor

[Jed Dilligan]

33. Yes, except one thing:

All historical fascist regimes have been in Christian nations with close ties between the regime and the church.

There have been authoritarian governments in the Islamic world, but real, technical fascism is confined to Christendom.

So in that sense Christo-Fascist is more accurate.

[ProfessorGAC]

43. Fair Enough

However, i do think the goal of some of these folks on the islamic side is to have a government run according to their fundamentalist philosophy, and it looks an awful lot like fascism to me.
The Professor

[Jed Dilligan]

46. Until they develop a modern bureaucracy and industrial base,

I will heartily condemn them, but stop short of using the "F" word.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I think both terms are accurate descriptors for some folks' mindset. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Meaning?

I think "nt" was not appropriate in this case.
The Professor

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Meaning, I certainly DO think there are "Christo-Fascists" and I think

there are "Islamo-fascists".

Not all Christians, Not all Muslims. But they do exist.

There are control freaks ALL over this planet, and Religion is a traditional hotbed of 'em.

[FormerDem06]

39. It fits the blind hatred of some

for Christianity in my opinion. I don't agree with either Christofacist or Islamofacist, I think they are both degrading to be honest. I saw somewhere above that someone said Christians made Pol Pot, Stalin, etc. look like amatuers.

You cannot make statements like that and be genuine.

Stalin took out (either directly or indirectly) 20 million.
Mao's Great step forward starved 25 million
Pol Pot took out 2 million
Hitler took out 6 million Jews and millions of enemies
Ghenghis Kahn took out 30-40 million folks on his march west and in China including complete systematic genocidal purges in provinces in Iran Iraq and India.
The Roman Empire was largely not Christian until after 300 AD (and on it's decline) and they killed millions in their conquest and empire including the persecution of Christians (and subsequent lion lunches).




The crusades resulted in about 1.5 million deaths:

Casualties
Total deaths during the Crusades (1096-1270) are estimated at about 1.5 million. Many of the deaths are attributed to starvation and disease.
Pilgrim deaths due to disease . . . .50,000
Fall of Antioch (1098) . .100,000 Muslims
Fall of Jerusalem (1099) .70,000 Muslims
Children's Crusade (1212) . . . . . . . .50,000



Are Christians innocent? No WAY! But do they even compare to some of the others listed above? I personally don't see how.

[Solomon]

59. Christo fascists killed between 50 to 100 million africans just bringing

them over here. Let's not mention what they did to the ones that made it. Just think, 50 to 100 million "collateral damage".

And don't try and act like this doesn't qualify. Christo-fascism is white supremacy.

[devilgrrl]

31. How about that there Spanish Inquisition?????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_inquisition

[DrunkenMaster]

35. I believe

the Native American genocide and the enslavement of a whole shitload of Africans might both qualify....

[daleo]

41. WWI involved mostly Christian nations

And they weren't shy about calling themselves Christian nations back then. Western colonialization and imperialism were wrapped in the cloak of bringing Christian civilization to the heathens. Slave owners were generally quite keen on Christianizing their slaves. One could go on, but the general idea is clear.

[daleo]

42. WWI involved mostly Christian nations

And they weren't shy about calling themselves Christian nations back then. Western colonialization and imperialism were wrapped in the cloak of bringing Christian civilization to the heathens. Slave owners were generally quite keen on Christianizing their slaves. One could go on, but the general idea is clear.

[OregonDem]

47. If our nation had never instituted a separation of church and state

I believe the Christofascists would have grabbed power and purged the nation of atheists and non christians in their effort to create a Christian Nation ruled by theocracy. But since our nation was founded on secularism this has prevented a lot of the religious wars that have occurred in Europe for centuries where church and state where essentially the same thing. Since the religious right has been largely unsuccessful at tearing down the wall separating church and state and purging the nation of heathens they are now launching their holy wars outside of our nation. They love this current Iraq war because in their view this is a holy war between Christianity and Islam, Jesus vs Mohamed and a chance to show everybody how superior their God is to everyone else's. The religious right is just as insane as the islamic fundamentalists who also want holy wars and theocracy.

[loyalsister]

52. Language conflict.....

It seems that that is what is revealed with this question.

I think the alternate perspective that I would hope to have considered is that if one is going to categorize a governmental system as a marriage between religion and fascism, they should aknowledge that it could be any religion.

For example, to single out a particular protestant religion label (say *'s pronounced religion) for "Cristo Fascism" - "Methodofascism" highlights exactly how stigmatizing that kind of language can get.

Singling people and culture as opposed to the specific government and nation is the problem.

We generally use "corporatism" rather than single out particular corporations as the drivers of a government tied to corporations.

[RedXIII]

57. What about "bloody" Mary I of England..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_I_of_England



Because word is that she had Prostentants killed in the name of her religion.


Queen Mary I of England is called Bloody Mary because of her persecution of Protestants. The Protestant Reformation, started fitfully in England by King Henry VIII, became established policy under the brief reign of Edward VI. Mary, like her mother Catherine of Aragon, whom Henry VIII had spurned, was a devout Roman Catholic. She contracted an unpopular marriage to the equally devout Philip II of Spain. The pair, with the assistance of conservative churchmen such as Edward "Bloody" Bonner and Stephen Gardiner, sought to reimpose Roman Catholicism upon the religiously divided country.

During her brief reign of just over five years, Mary had almost three hundred people burnt at the stake for heresy. Her persecutions were notable also for the prominence of their victims; the first person to die was the Protestant John Rogers, who had completed and published Tyndale's work as Matthew's Bible. While heresy trials and executions occurred both before and after her reign, she executed more than twice as many as had been executed for this crime over the preceding century and a half.

Mary's half-sister Elizabeth succeeded her. In contrast to Mary's violent epithet, Elizabeth was commonly known as "Good Queen Bess," despite being as ruthless toward Catholics as her predecessor had been toward Protestants. On one occasion, Elizabeth had about eight hundred Catholics executed for restoring the Mass in a few towns. This has prompted some historians to suggest that a more fitting name for Elizabeth would be "Bloody Bess."<1> Indeed, Irish Catholics reversed the epithets, calling Mary "Good Queen Mary," and Elizabeth "Bloody Bess."<2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Mary_%28person%29

[NMMNG]

58. You mean like the Iraq war?

The Crusades?

The Spanish Inquisition?

The Salem Witch Trials?

[kcwayne]

60. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mass executions

along with the genocide of native Americans,
and millions of Vietnamese,
or 500,000 of their own dead to protect the right to own slaves..

Apparently Jesus loves you when you are dead.

[and-justice-for-all]

61. Xtianity and Religion in general is the reason why.....

...there are Wars. Xtianity takes the prize for most killed in the name of G-d over all other religions. Next to extremist Islam, right-wing ChristoFascist are hell bent on world domination and the funny thing is if we left the Middle East the fuck alone they would not bother anyone. But thanks to Warmongering Jesus freaks, they entire region wants to kill us!

[NMMNG]

62. Bingo

And welcome to DU! :hi:

[SoCalifer]

64. Jim Jones

Remember this Christo-fascist?







And his legacy?