Are DUers politically shallow or just myopic.

[Perky]

I am no great fan of Lieberman. I support the nominee of the party.

Now haveing said that I find it more than a little curious that after Lieberman came out and said that Rumsfeld ought to resign,

There has been scarely a comment.

I would have expectef the anti-Joe folks to cry foul and the ProJoe crownd to be saying "told you so" or wat to go jo or something.

But it has scarcely even register with this supposededly eurdit crowd.

Are we so entrenched in bashing Bush that we simply do not know how to deal with Joe's statement?

Are we just so tired of the a relentless flaming that we choose to ignore an important gesture by a DLCer and purported friend of the President?

DO we simply not ceare that Bush's favorite Dem just told him to give his boy the boot?


This seem non-sensical somehow.

[ClassWarrior]

1. Guess Joe's made himself irrelevant. But thanks for the flamebait.

NGU.

[sui generis]

25. yes bait is the word: do we beat our wives too often or just too hard

Dur.

[redqueen]

28. I wish we could recommend comments here.

You said it perfectly:

irrelevant / flamebait



My, what an interesting combination.

[ClassWarrior]

43. Thanks.

{I like chocolate milk!!}

NGU.

[Marr]

2. He said the same thing years ago. It's called posturing.

He still supports GW Bush and his Iraq occupation 100%.

People here aren't myopic, they're just not stupid. I think most DUers recognize cynical, self-serving political posturing when they see it.

[Perky]

11. I don't diagree. I am just stunned at the lack of comment on it.

[Jed Dilligan]

3. I hadn't even heard about it, thank god.

At least we have enough message control to filter out Lieberman's attempt to make himself more ambiguous.

[acmavm]

4. There was a thread on here just this morning that pointed out

what a blatant liar Joe is. I'll dig around to find it but it proved that old Blow was full of shit when he said he's been calling for Rumsfeld's resignation for three years.


EDIT: Here ya go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2790437

Joe is a self-absorbed old fraud that thinks he's entitled to be a Senator, regardless of how he shits all over the party.

[bowens43]

5. Joe's statement is irrelevant.

It is of no importance. Much too little , much too late.

[WI_DEM]

6. Actually I recall the comments since it was made as a last ditch

effort (along with bringing in Clinton) to win the primary. I'm glad he made that statement--a little late for my liking--but now that he is running as an "Independent" with broad GOP support, I'd like to see him repeat it.

[meegbear]

7. We're giving him the attention that he deserves ...

NONE.

[damntexdem]

8. Aren't you going to do a poll?

Meanwhile, Lieberman is doing no more than any Republican senator might in distancing himself from hated targets in the Administration. Is he the first GOP (in fact, just not self admitted) senator to call for Rummy's resignation?

[MrModerate]

9. I'm sure that Joe thinks Rumsfeld should go . . .

And has thought so for some time. But since he was trying to be a "uniter and not a divider," he hasn't pushed it recently. Trotting it out now is pure politics, the intent of which is to appeal to Dems and Independents who are uncomfortable with his support of the war. It doesn't cost him much with his Republicker support, because Rumsfeld's credibility is pretty low across the spectrum.

As to why DUers haven't responded, I'm not sure. It's pretty hard for Joe to compete with the horrorshow Bush press conference earlier today.

[Perky]

18. COuld be self-serving/ He want's Rummy's job

[longship]

10. Since Joe's no longer a Dem candidate.

His pronouncements are not really that important here at DU. We have a Dem candidate to support.

Joe can say anything he wants, and likely will. Myself, I'm trying to completely ignore him.

My goal, and I believe that of most DU people, is to get Lamont elected to the Senate.

[kaygore]

14. Well said!!!

[LeftCoast]

12. Could be that we just see it as pointless political pandering

In the large scheme of things, it doesn't seem to matter to me. :shrug:

Besides, didn't you hear, they caught JonBennet's killer! :D

[Perky]

15. Jon who?

[stopbush]

13. Hopefully, we're both! :)

BTW - there's been plenty of comment on Lieberman calling for Dummy to resign. Most of us can tell
political opportunism when we smell it, and this one stinks.

Joe lost the primary fair-n-square. His continuing on is a slap in the face to us and to his former party. His words
don't deserve to be listened to anymore than Rick Santorum's.

So, fuck Joe and whatever other self-serving words he'll utter between now and his next loss.

[spanone]

16. Don't think many here take Jomentum very seriously.

He'd sell his mother for a vote. Therefore his dissing of Rumsfeld is hardly news.

[WilliamPitt]

17. Actually, we're pretty goddam astute, friend

Lieberman says Rumsfeld should resign. Well, stone the fucking crows. He's only the 2,902,887th person to do so in the last three years. His statement is both catastrophically belated and politically motivated...and DUers are smart enough to see it for what it was when it appeared on the news.

:shaking head:

[Perky]

19. But you have not explained the lack of comment.

[WilliamPitt]

21. What is there to talk about?

It is an obvious thing. Should I post threads titled "This Just In: Water Remains Wet" every time I get out of the shower?

By the way, there was comment:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1952653

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1948450

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1950680 (post 19)

...so...

Also, maybe you can explain to me why I or anyone else on DEMOCRATIC Underground should give a wet fart about what a guy who abandoned the party has to say about anything.

[Perky]

36. Oh cmon will. It has been non-stop Lie-berman

for the last month in here and he suddenly says Rummy has to go and no one comments pro or con with the vociferousness of the umpteen thousand posts on his lame-ass over the past month.

I am jus saying he seems to do the ight thing and no once call him either pandering or gives him an attab

It jsu seem very odd as if it left everybody gobsmacked or somthing

[Perky]

20. AP Article

Lieberman Calls on Rumsfeld to Resign


AP Photo/KARIN COOPER






WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sen. Joe Lieberman, attacked by fellow Democrats as being too close to the White House on the Iraq War, on Sunday called on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign but said the United States cannot "walk away" from the Iraqis.

Lieberman, the one-time Democratic vice presidential candidate, is running as an independent in his bid for a fourth term since losing the Democratic nomination to newcomer Ned Lamont, who harnessed voters' anger against the war in Iraq.

Lieberman, an early supporter of the Iraq war, said he had called for Rumsfeld to step down in 2003.

"With all respect to Don Rumsfeld, who has done a grueling job for six years, we would benefit from new leadership to work with our military in Iraq," he said on CBS' "Face the Nation."




Lieberman said the Bush administration should have sent more troops into Iraq "to secure the country."

"We had a naive vision that the Iraqis were going to embrace us and then go on and live happily ever after," he said.

Lieberman said the administration must "put severe pressure on the Iraqis to contain sectarian violence."

"There is still hope in Iraq and as long as there is we cannot just pick up and walk away and leave them to the sure disaster that would follow and would compromise our security in the war on terrorism," he said.

Buy AP Photo Reprints





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Election News
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Lieberman Calls on Rumsfeld to Resign

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GOP Candidate Seeks His Niche in Conn.

Summary: Dems Change Nominating Schedule

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Alaska Gov. May Be Unseated in Primary






The Lamont campaign issued a statement Sunday criticizing Lieberman for trying to "paint himself as courageous for clinging to the failed 'stay the course' policy in Iraq and not listening to the voters of Connecticut on the need to change course."

"His new found 'criticism' of the war won't convince Connecticut voters after so many years of stubbornly rubber-stamping Bush's failed policies," the statement said.

The war in Iraq was the hallmark of Lamont's primary campaign. He calls for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from what he often refers to as "a bloody civil war," and says he believes that those who got America into the conflict should be held accountable.

Lieberman accused Lamont of distorting his stance on Iraq.

"He made me into a cheerleader for George Bush and everything that's happened," Lieberman said. "And the record shows that, while I believe we did the right thing in overthrowing Saddam Hussein, I've been very critical over the years, particularly in 2003 and 2004, about the failure to send enough American troops to secure the country, about the absence of adequate plans and preparation to deal with post-Saddam Iraq."

"As bad as things are now - and they've gotten worse in the last six months - it would be a disaster if America set a deadline and said we're getting all of our troops out by a given date," Lieberman said. "That's a position Ned Lamont has taken."

Tom Swan, campaign manager for Lamont, said Sunday the campaign stands by its criticism of Lieberman as being too close to President Bush.

Asked about Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., who was quoted as saying that Lieberman echoes Republicans, Lieberman said it was "just plain politics by somebody who has ambitions of his own."

"I voted 90 percent of the time with a majority of Democrats in the U.S. Senate," he said.

"I'm worried that my party may become what we've accused the Republicans of, a kind of litmus-test party," he said. "If you don't agree with us 100 percent of the time, you don't agree with us. I'm devoted to the Democratic Party."

A new Quinnipiac University poll shows Lamont is trailing Lieberman by 12 percentage points among likely voters. It said much of Lieberman's advantage comes from his popularity among Republicans and unaffiliated voters, the largest voting block in Connecticut.

[EstimatedProphet]

35. This is the biggest problem for me:

"With all respect to Don Rumsfeld

A little too much respect for Rumsfeld IMO, a man that has cynically lied his way through killing over 2,500 fellow citizens and way too many innocent Iraqis.

[leftofthedial]

22. resign?

he should turn state's evidence against his treasonous co-conspirators and submit himself to the justice of a tribunal at The Hague.

[CollegeDUer]

23. Maybe DU knows the BS from reality here

We all understand that Joe comes out and does this after he gets his ass kicked by his own voters, a huge upset to the DLC.

Asking for rumsfeld to resign is not a huge step. It's basically saying: "love the war or hate it, someone else should run it"; many right wingers have asked for rummy to step down. It shouldn't be signifigant, no matter how much sensationalism is put on it.

[warrens]

24. The issue is kissing Bush's ass, Cheney's ass, etc.

Tossing one guy to the wolves is hardly substantive. The issue is...NO SURRENDER TO FASCISM, even if they happen to be helping out your pet cause and almost-native country. The Vichy Democrats are a large part of the reason we keep losing to the fascists; when we DO win, the pricks defend the Repukes instead of letting us slash their bellies open and show them their intestines.

This ain't politics anymore. This is war, and Lieberman has been Tokyo Rose for long enough.

Joe Lieberman (R-Israel)

[Bob3]

26. Holy Joe would toss his mother under a bus to keep his seat

Piling on the Secretary of Defense (who Joe defended when the stories and the pictures of torture broke out and there were calls for rummy to go) is as naked a piece of political pandering as I have seen lately. I can only assume his polls show he is leaking democratic and independent support by the day/

And besides it isn't going to happen Rumsfeld will leave his post when * is gone and not a day sooner.

[The_Casual_Observer]

27. Apparently rummy has resigned several times already.

So, lie-berman is a little late for this.

[charlie]

29. Full of yourself, as usual

There have been threads from this "eurdit" crowd. To get you up to speed, here's Joe's op-ed from 2 years ago that declares that "Secretary Rumsfeld's removal would delight foreign and domestic opponents of America's presence in Iraq.":

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005079

[seabeyond]

30. do you enjoy beating your wife..... per your title n/t

[sarge43]

31. The junta is going to throw Rummy off the boat, but Smirky's

too chicken shit to be up front about it. So, they first get some of their lap dogs to see what the reaction will be.

Big whoop.

[CJCRANE]

32. If you think it's interesting

just post the story and people will comment. That's how it works.

[last1standing]

33. Are you trying to start a fight or just be rude.

What an asinine post. :wtf:

[LSK]

34. Joementum said that BEFORE the primary

So Im not sure if you are building a strawman to make a false argument or what?

:shrug:

[Perky]

37. Jeesh people he said it yesteday on CBS and AP picked it up

All I am saying is that it is odd to me that no one is commenting on it. SInce we have been going non-stop joe slamming for the last month in fifth gear.

AND NO I do nnot support Joe. I would vote for the party nominee whoever it was.

[countryjake]

38. It's old news, that's why. He's been saying that all month...

before the voting and it was mentioned in the DU topics about the CT primary...who cares about him anymore, he's made his bed, and is now wallowing in it!

[LSK]

42. yes, he said it AGAIN

He said it before the primary too.

[endarkenment]

39. Why do we care if Republicans are eating their own?

I mean really, why would DU care, other than as a spectator sport, when Republicans like Joe (Asshat Connecticut) start attacking other Republicans like Rumsfeld (Nazi Channelling Goering)?

Oh sure we should encourage the internal bloodletting, but we can't get too involved. After all, it is not like Lieberman pays any attention to Democratic voters.

On the other hand, why should we give Joe any positive coverage? He is running against an excellent Democratic candidate, and DU should be engaged in promoting the Lamont campaign, not finding some obscure reason to dislike Lieberman less than we already do.

By the way your OP title was a classic false dichotomy.

[H2O Man]

40. Lieberman does not warrent

any more respect than Zell Miller or Tom DeLay. If either of them said they favored firing Rumsfeld, it would not warrent any appreciation by democrats, nor would it be something I would expect progressive democrats (DUers) to make note of.

[mcscajun]

41. Neither. We have no need to "deal with" Joe's statement.

What's nonsensical is asking an insulting question when this is old news (so he repeated his thought again, Who Cares?) and there have (as Will Pitt linked) already BEEN comments on this.

Many here are indeed erudite, yet we don't feel any burning desire to comment on everything this MYPartyAllTheTime Candidate says.

[Greyhound]

44. I believe the word you are looking for is "erudite".

having or showing profound knowledge

Also it is probably "scarcely"
By a small margin; barely.

If you're going to ridicule the educated and want to be taken seriously, you really should try to avoid these kinds of errors, otherwise someone is likely to call you a "moran".

[TheWraith]

45. Either? Both?

Realistically, there's a certain core of groupthinkers on DU that often makes nuance and actual thought nearly as unwelcome as it is to the Republicans. In this sort of instance, any idea or concept other than "Lieberman = Bush" is rejected, even when facts dispute such a simple interpretation. If you try to inject actual information into their bubble, they immediately mark you as an enemy. I've actually been accused of being a paid disinformation artist because I debunked some blatantly wrong statements about depleted uranium, and backed up my information with citations. These people tend to come out of the woodwork on certain issues, which squelches the more rational elements of DU in the noise.

By the way, the word is erudite, not "eurdit."

[lonestarnot]

46. Well here's one for you. The motherfucker deserves a pink slip,

the privilege of resignation should not be honored. He should be tried and convicted in a war tribunal. The end of comment.

[shaniqua6392]

47. Old news my friend!

Joeliar is old news. He never really was a true Dem. Trust me on this: Joe does not really want Rummy to resign. He is just trying to score "brownie points" to sway Dems and Independents to his side in November. But people should be wary of anyone who says, "No disrespect to Rumsfeld....who has had a grueling job......etc. What a bunch of B.S. Grueling job my ass. Our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have a grueling job. Rummy has had a cushy job sitting on his soft white old ass playing war games with our military. p.s. spell check is awesome!

[bigtree]

48. Sun Aug-20-06 01:03 PM (my post)

Pump criticizes the handle -- Lieberman calls for Rumsfeld to quit

Associated Press
Published August 20 2006

WASHINGTON -- {snip}

"With all respect to Don Rumsfeld, who has done a grueling job for six years, we would benefit from new leadership to work with our military in Iraq," Lieberman said Sunday.

He also accused Lamont of distorting his stance on Iraq.

"He made me into a cheerleader for George Bush and everything that's happened," Lieberman said. "And the record shows that, while I believe we did the right thing in overthrowing Saddam Hussein, I've been very critical over the years, particularly in 2003 and 2004, about the failure to send enough American troops to secure the country, about the absence of adequate plans and preparation to deal with post-Saddam Iraq."

"As bad as things are now - and they've gotten worse in the last six months - it would be a disaster if America set a deadline and said we're getting all of our troops out by a given date," Lieberman said. "That's a position Ned Lamont has taken."

that's also Rumsfeld's position
http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/local/state/hc-20122832.apds.m0372.bc-ct--connaug20,0,6091242.story?coll=hc-headlines-local-wire


why dontcha go on over and kick it up, Perky?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1948450

[Moderator]

49. Locking

Subject line is flamebait.