When Men are Down and Out - Does Anybody Care?

[qwlauren35]

I spent yesterday campaigning for Kweisi Mfume yesterday in Baltimore's Druid Hill Park. Mfume is running for US Senate, and I want to believe that he should get there. But I was struck by what I ran into while campaigning. As I talked to the MEN, two issues emerged.

The first, of course, was from the felons. Forget voting, they wanted JOBS! I remember about 10-20 years ago, there was a lot of hoopla about helping youth get jobs, but that dried up. And now, when our many of our youth really NEED jobs in order to get right with society, too many of them have already "messed up", and all of a sudden can't get hired ANYWHERE, no matter how hard they try. We want men to be able to take care of families... but if they can't get jobs, it's not going to happen...

The second, was from the veterans! In talking to them, I found out that our "wonderful" VA hospitals, where we assume our veterans are being well cared for, have a tendency to offer methadone and morphine as "solutions" to veteran ailments. And these same hospitals willingly offer access to the veterans to the pharmaceutical companies for drug trials and experiments. Some veterans are more messed up after they come out of a VA hospital than they were when they went in. And this becomes yet another group of men who then cannot take care of their families.

What I want to know is: what's the plan for addressing these issues? Oh, I hear about helping felons be able to VOTE... who does THAT benefit? What they NEED is jobs. Who is addressing this? And for the veterans - do people even KNOW? Do the politicians KNOW? Is there anyone out there in a position to take on the military (they run VA hospitals!) AND the pharmaceutical companies (who benefit from "legal" drug addicts!) in an effort to save our men from medical abuses?

If anyone has seen any work being done on these issues, please let me know.

[Cleita]

1. These men should be given safety nets as well as any other

human being. I think people assume that since men probably don't have small children sleeping in the alley with them and aren't as vulnerable to attacks or rape that they should be able to fend for themselves better. It's not always true and society needs to address their problems as well.

[thecrow]

2. Thank you for asking these questions

I don't know how to answer them...
Some ideas:
Write to your congress critter and get a movement going with these men so that their voices are heard, too.

Form a troupe of VA hospital visitors armed with fact sheets to pass out.

Hold meetings on these subjects.

You might say " but I'm only one person! I can't do all of this!"

Cindy Sheehan was one woman and look at how many people joined her.

You can't do anything if you are asking someone else to stand up for you. you have to stand up for yourself and maybe organize this group of men yourself.
I wish you luck! PLease report back on if you get anywhere with any of these ideas.

K&R :grouphug:

[qwlauren35]

41. I think...

This is going to be something I'm willing to take action on. And I do understand that it *might* begin with me... but then again, if I can find other organizations doing the work, then perhaps MY work is to make sure people know that they exist.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Deja Q]

3. We all need jobs. But that doesn't stop the offshoring.

Talk to the offshorers. With luck they'll say why they're doing all this.

[oscar111]

9. VOA volunteers of america

AFAIK, this is the group that has job training and placement help that focuses on adult males. Single ones too.

possibly other groups do, but this is the only one i have heard of.

as to job shortage, see my sig for documentation of it.

you will need that , as the RW claims there is no JS.

JS is as you said, a key point in our societies woes.

Training will not cure the JS tho. However, it can save some guys from hmlessness. Not all of them alas.

Only full solution will be getting dems in power.

Co-ops might help some till then. Starting co-ops is wouth looking into. Like, small businesses based in the co op model. Tho most small businesses fail.

OP poster, you have good thoughts... hang out at the Poverty forum of DU, we would like your input. Also, your posts will not disappear from page one of that forum in a day, the way they do on fast forums like GD.

[Warpy]

23. "We have to stay COMPETITIVE!!!!"

is the rallying screech of the rabidly offshoring corporate shithead. In other words, they're afraid the other fellow is going to do it first, and since their ONLY job is fattening the bottom line, the corporate quarterly profit, that means throwing people out of work.

Where the hell these assholes think their customers are coming from is anybody's guess.

[oscar111]

25. Tarrifs are needed.

as to customers, i guess they sell to Europe.

ideas ?

[Warpy]

30. Tariffs were needed 40 years ago

when our industry was being raided. They're desperately needed now, although it will be a hard sell now that we no longer make much of anything here, becuse it will mean inflation while corporations sit with their thumbs up their asses wondering what reopening plants in this country will do to their bottom line.

The time for stiff tariffs was while we still HAD a mnaufacturing base.

You can bet your ass that the far eastern countries that raided our industries assisted by corporate greed have tariffs to make sure nobody steals it from THEM.

The idiotic dogma of free trade without fair trade and of forcing the US worker to try to compete in a dollar wage with some guy being paid in rupees or yuan has run its course. Don't expect the captains of industry or the old farts in Congress to notice, though.

What truly frightens me is that we no longer have enough industry to be on the winning side in the next war.

[Greyhound]

34. You raise another excellent point. I haven't heard anything recently

about the fact that our "awesome military machine" is now utterly dependant on foreign suppliers for parts and equipment, and therefore, can be brought to its knees by an embargo for a couple of months.

[Deja Q]

39. China.

They get prices for goods much lower than we do here in America... but there are many more of them (populationwise: 5 Chinese per 1 American) so it evens out in the end.

US News and World Report had an interesting article in May. They even coined a term: "Chuppies". Google it.

[kiahzero]

4. Voting gives a voice.

With a voice comes power to enact change. Protecting former felons' right to vote is fundamental to becoming a more just society.

[sandnsea]

5. Murtha, Clark, Kerry, Harkin, Akaka

I'm a little surprised that you've been here for 3 years and missed the myriad of posts about the Democratic fights for troops and veterans. You can plug veteran and any of the names listed and come up with a host of legislation that they've proposed and passed, or budget cuts they've fought against.

As to felons and jobs, that's an age old problem that I don't know the solution to. They have to start out at the bottom, just like a 16 year old, and that is certainly no fun for a grown man to have to endure. I realize that even getting into the bottom door is difficult for them too.

[EFerrari]

6. VA is controlled by predatory cronies. We need to hear it so we

will know.

And, without our vote, we have nothing. So, restoring the right to vote is essential.

[nealmhughes]

7. It is odd that you mention this, as I am presently co-authoring an

academic journal article about the issue/"problem"(in academic lingo) of unfettered access for the homeless/others differentiated as "others" or "outsiders" by public libraries. One of the things I have discovered in my research is a very real difference in public services for homeless/down and out men v. women who are not ex-cons or mental patients whom noone monitors for medication usage. I term it "Neo-Edwardianism" and also "Neo-Elizabethian" attitude towards a difference in support for the "deserving" v. the "undeserving" poor.
If anyone at all could have it "good," then perhaps women who have from abusive relations with any minor children are the most likely to get social services that are neither degrading nor done with a sense of resignation of the hopeless condition of their clients. Abused women have a wide range of social services, mostly from NGOs, but also the resources of food stamps, day care, Section 8 housing, etc. from the government, that quite frankly men in a similar condition do not.
Homelessness is part of a syndrom: lack of shelter is the final stage of it. It usually starts with drug abuse or crime, then incarceration, leading to poor employment potential, which leads to more drugs and more crime, more incarceration, with mental illness often accompanying and and/or all these stages.
The "system" is set up, and by system, I mean the entire North American social structure, with but few exceptions, with mercy for few: men are considered to be able to "dig ditches" -- although where these jobs are and where they pay enough for a roof over one's head, enough pay to get to the job, etc. Ex-cons are taboo in the modern workplace, unless one is a corporate criminal or a blood-stained war monger, in which case one gets a presidential pardon and an executive position.
Drugs breed crime for $ which breeds jail, which means a daily fight for survival instead of an educational opportunity, which breeds release with no employment, which leads back to drugs....ad infin, until the "three strikes" rule kicks in and one is now a guest of King George or Jeb for life...or else on the street.
All we need is public hangings to recreate the chaos of crime-riddled and poverty stricken the Early 17th Century -- people are now cheap, and obsolete, just as they were then when they left the farms and came to the cities.

[Greyhound]

13. Drugs do not breed crime, the illegality imposed on drug use

is what causes further crime. As with so many issues, the underlying issue is not the stated issue (the absurd "war on drugs" in this case), it is the protection of industry and the accumulation and consolidation of power over individuals.

You are absolutely correct in your assertion that our society is being regressed to Samuel Clemens' "Gilded Age", and it is truly frightening that so many, even here among the "progressives", have no problem with that.

[oscar111]

17. Depression causes half of drug scene

self medication by those with no access to legit pills... IMO.

other half is folks doing OK, but liking to get high. Lawyers taking coke is an example, IMO.

[Nozebro]

26. Extremely well put, including your prescient point about "the

accumulation and consolidation of power over individuals."

[Greyhound]

29. Thank you and welcome to DU! I wish I could take credit for the

power angle, but it was Noam Chomsky that put it best, IMO.

To paraphrase him; These people (the ruling class) are not stupid, if they have pursued a "war on drugs" for over forty years with the only result being an exacerbation of the problem, then the elimination of drug use is obviously not the true goal and we have to look at what the policy has produced to justify it's continued existence.

Since the major results of the "drug war" have been an increase in governmental power and diminution of individual liberty, these must be the real goals.

:kick: :hi:

[Nozebro]

33. Do you make a distinction between "War on (some) Drugs" and laws

that make it illegal to possess, use, and/or distribute certain drugs?

[Greyhound]

36. If I understand the question, no I don't.

IMO the attempted prohibition has, as always, resulted in an artificial increase in demand and the creation of new and worse drugs. I would not be opposed to some sort of purity enforcement, just to make sure you are getting what you are paying for, and unscrupulous suppliers are not selling lethal substances represented as something else.

I think everybody has a right to make their own choices regarding what they chose to put, or not to put, into their own bodies. Of course, one of the arguments is always to the extreme, such as "would you legalize heroin?" to which my reply is, yes. Heroin was, in fact, legal for many years (sold as a remedy for whooping cough IIRC) before it was outlawed and society didn't suffer nearly as much harm as the illegality of drugs has caused. I also think that the demand would dramatically decrease, I mean, would you suddenly start using heroin if it were legal? I wouldn't. How many people would be using meth, if pharmaceutical stimulants were available? Not too many, I'll wager.

The bottom line is that there is a very consistent, very tiny (1% - 3%), minority of people in every society that engages in self destructive behavior and outlawing substances has never had any effect on this. Very lethal substance abuse is a self-correcting problem and all the draconian measures in the world have not, and never will, change this.

To put it another way, everybody that wants to use drugs, is using drugs in spite of the law. So what purpose do the laws serve?

[Nozebro]

37. "minority of people in every society that engages in self destructive

behavior"

Such as: consuming excessive amounts of so-called fast food, living far beyond one's means, not bothering with making an effort to become educated about history, world events, politics, and ideas about things that have the potential to make life better or worse etc..

Yes, everyone SHOULD have the right to make choices about whatever drugs or "drugs" (TV, shopping etc.).

I distinguish the so-called War on Drugs from mere enoforcement of narcotics laws. The "War" - meaning setting people up, framing people, actively looking for drug users in order to bust them etc. is what causes most of the "casualties" which most thoughtful people rightly condemn.

[newyawker99]

43. Hi Nozebro!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[KT2000]

35. Men do have it rough

I am associated with people who have been permanently injured by chemical exposures - most of them on the job. Corporations pretty much have the say as to what damage their products cause and of course it is minimal and falls short of recognizing the reality. (Actually they fight hard to have the reality NOT recognized). There are a bunch of refugees out there who have had jobs that exposed them to dangerous chemicals and then they are thrown overboard. No workers comp, no welfare except possibly if they are willing to say they are mentally ill.

These are people with a myriad of problems and most need help - financially, medically, and most difficult of all - trying to live without further exposures to dangerous chemicals.

This is just anecdotal but it looks to me that the women are faring a bit better, especially those with children. Those without children can sometimes get help from charitable organizations but the men always seem to hit a brick wall. It seems that most progrmads are for women with children.

Thanks for writing your article. Maybe it will help.

[pitohui]

8. there are jobs in construction going begging

right now excuse me if i'm not too sympathetic w. any strong healthy man who says he can't get a job, there are more jobs than people who can fill them for more money than i as a woman could ever hope to earn in legal work


as for your other issue, i am sure as hell not going to get on a bandwagon to deny pain medicine to war veterans, i have had my own struggles w. chronic pain and i have lost patience w. the medicine grabbers, someone injured and in chronic pain because of their service in war should DAMN well be provided w. all the necessary drugs -- DEA and puritan morality be damned to hell if they don't like that morphine is one of the best for the task

if you care about men, first do no harm, drop the issue about you objecting to the amount of pain medicine received by veterans and try the post again, you're all over the place here

[oscar111]

11. Source for "jobs.. begging"? I have a source saying jobs are scarce

by fourteen million ... a shortage overall.

also, i have heard construction jobs in ravaged N Orleans went to mexicans, not americans, as the pay was too low for americans to live on. Mexicans can live on less because they are bachelors only, up here and living twenty to a house. Those with families, have them back in Mex where the wife can live on a dollar a day. This pattern in construction jobs is nationwide. Even Massachucettes.

have you a source for "jobs going begging"?

see my sig for gov site source for my claim of a JS. my claim is well documented, IMO.

[pitohui]

15. i call your source a damn liar, come down here and see for yourself

i live this every day, so what do i know, compared to some unknown "source" !!!!

come talk to the homeowners, some of whom will break down into tears, because they can't hire anyone who will actually show up to do the work

in the end to do the repairs on my own home, my husband had to do them himself with the help of a neighbor who was available only because his car broke down and he couldn't get to the bigger, better-paying jobs, we were able to grab him in a tiny window of opportunity by paying cash

come down here, look me in the eye, and look at this crap we're dealing with and then tell me straight-faced there are no jobs

every damn residential street still has crap that needs to be done

i know people right now who would give jobs but the worker must be willing to actually show up and do the job

any able-bodied male who is telling you there are no jobs in new orleans area is a dead-on liar who doesn't want to work, come down and see for yourself

jesus, don't tell me what is right here in my own house and my own front yard! i have to look across the street every day at two houses that are still uninhabitable, a year later, for lack of men willing to work

and this in a neighborhood that had relatively light damage

come out and look at what's left of biloxi or what's left of gentilly or new orleans east and then try to look me in the eye and tell me there is no work!

there is work here, for decades, for people who have the physical strength to do it

jeez louise, at least make the story somewhat believable! people are not hiring five foot two guatemalan men to do heavy labor because they don't want to hire strong young local men, they are doing it because they're desperate to hire ANYONE who will show up at the job site

no one cares if you're a green martian, just show up...

[Greyhound]

19. Just curious, what wages and what work are you offering? n/t

[pitohui]

27. the man i hired ended up making over $100 an hour

and we also had to buy and pick up all of the materials, and my husband had to assist on the job, yeah, we way overpaid, but there was no choice, we could not live w. a hole in our house forever and we still know tons of people who have six figures of work left to do but no workers to do it with

insurance settlements are leaving people with four, five, sometimes even six figures of money that could be spent on repairs -- if only they were able to get workers

people are not coming here all the way from guatemala because there is no money to be made, they are coming here for the $$$, now i accept that some people can't tolerate prosperity and will sit on their hands and just hope the opportunity passes...but i am lacking any sympathy for that type of individual this time of century

now if a person has a handicap or for some other reason they can't do the work, that's different

but the claim that there is no work is a flat-out, full-bore, dead-on lie

as i said, come down here and say it w. a straight face that there is no work

i recently talked to an 80 year old man in biloxi who is back in the construction business because of the storm, "i'm retired but it's too much money not to work"

i mean, crap, if homeowners are hiring the 80 year olds...that is desperation

the opportunity is here, no use saying it isn't

[Greyhound]

32. If there is any way to verify what you claim, I am on my way.

While I don't doubt what you say, I would need to find out what I've overlooked. I just have a hard time believing that there are jobs paying over $300,000 ($100 p/hr * 60 hours * 52 weeks) per year for what is essentially a low-skill job that are not being filled.

Are those providing living accomadations gouging? Some obscure FEMA requirements? I'm just trying to see how this is possible. Here in hell, it is now common to see middle aged people working the counter @ Taco Bell for $7 - $8.

[mongo]

46. Oh the horror you and your neighbors must face

Having the money but not the labor to fix your homes (6 figures!) Whoot!

Yeah -- homeless men can just put ads in the fucking yellow pages as handymen! Problem solved. Just instead of a phone number, they can say just leave a msg taped to the gazebo in city park.

I feel soooo sorry for you.

I know so many people that can't find jobs. These contractors are not hiring, or if they do, it is for day laborers through man-power or the equivilent. Shoddy temp agencies that manage to eat up almost half of the pay they get for your work.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

16. Many contractors in NO won't even hire willing american workers

because they are, as often as not, getting the work done and then refusing to pay, even the illegally low wages promised. The illegals can't do anything about it because of their lack of standing.

[pitohui]

18. then go to the homeowner and knock on the door

it's what plenty of other men have done, the worker i hired included

you don't need to deal w. "contractors" to get you a job, people are desperate, just get off the couch and do it

as far as "many" contractors not paying workers, a few contractors in the garbage hauling end of things refused to pay workers overtime, and this has been so exaggerated that the lazy are apparently seizing on it as an excuse not to bother to do anything at all

[mongo]

47. Just knock on the door

And you'll have a job!

Then:

Run out and buy the truck and tools you will need for the job (with the $$ you don't have).

Get bonded and get insurance in case you are hurt or the homeowner decides to sue you.

Hire an accountant and attorney to file all the paperwork you will need to go into business and pay your taxes.

Buy the materials you may or not have been paid for yet.

Yeah, just get off that couch!

If there were bands of men desperate for money roaming your neighborhood looking for work, I bet you'd be the first to call the police. When was the last time you picked up someone on the side of the road with a "will work for food" sign?

[pitohui]

52. read the post before you respond

the man i hired i was able to hire because his truck was in the shop and he needed cash to get it out

i bought, transported, and supplied all materials and tools


if this dude had any insurance or business license, it is the best kept secret in the world

get real, you think all those mexicans and guatemalans are hiring accountants and getting business licenses before they start earning

no, they just start...working...imagine that!

i gave a man a job, for good money, who had nothing

i took in another man for months, into my own home, who lost his home and everything financially because of the storm

what have you done again exactly? how many homeless people have EVER lived in your house? and for how long?

oh, that's right, you haven't helped anyone or done anything

you're a little too busy crappin crapping on those of us who have done something

well, thanks for nothing, next time i'll ask god to send the storm to your town and see how well you do without a house, when you keep getting news of friends who have been suddenly killed, when you keep getting news of others who have lost everything, yeah, let's see how well you do

"will work for food," my ass, guess what, every homeless man i have ever hired for a job was paid in cash money period -- i happen to have a little more respect for people than to expect them to be my slaves because i'm temporarily up and they're temporarily down

[oscar111]

21. WELL said, greyhound.

amen.

[qwlauren35]

42. Are you in New Orleans?

I find myself wondering if you would want buses filled with able men to arrive in New Orleans to work construction. Because these men would still have to be fed and housed. Do you want them to settle there permanently? Or just come do the work and then leave?

Please keep in mind, felons face a lot of restrictions on where they can go if they are on parole or probation. Can take them a while to get permission to relocated. And they have to have homes to go to before they can do this. Not just way-stations.

I recognize what you're saying about needing people to rebuild New Orleans. But I sense that unless there's an organization in place to help "able bodied men" get there, it's just not that simple.

[pitohui]

55. yes i am but it's the same deal for large areas of coastline

jesse jackson tried the bussing idea you suggest, it didn't work, no one took the bus

it's a chicken or egg problem, there is no housing since the housing units were destroyed, but if there is no labor to rebuild, then there is of course not going to be enough houses rebuilt

many many many many workers are in trailers, i even see tents around, but mostly in trailers, because there is just no housing

if people want to come and do something useful, there is opportunity here, if people want to come and sell drugs here or otherwise exploit our misery by hiding out from criminal charges, i got no use for them whatsoever, that said, i didn't exactly run any background checks on anybody, the first guy who actually showed up and started working got the money, i suspect the guy i hired had a serious health problem (okay, i'm pretty sure he was a crackhead) but i had to have another pair of strong hands, he provided them, and i would hope he did use the money to get to the next job site where he was offered a larger job -- if he smoked it all and the mechanic took his truck, i got no control over that

you just do what you can and hope for the best at some point

[conflictgirl]

53. That depends a LOT on where you are

Construction jobs are not so plentiful up here in the north. We also used to live in Texas, and during one of my husband's layoffs he looked into working in the construction field. Most places would not hire him without experience. The few that would consider it would have started him at a training wage of $7-8/hour, with potential to earn more later. When you have a family, you can't afford to work for $7 an hour.

Maybe there are places in the country where what you say is true, but it's definitely not true here in Michigan and it's definitely not true in Texas either. (Maybe there are parts of TX where that's true, but I know people there who are not experiencing what you say.)

I applied for ONE job and got it. It's work from home at a decent wage. My husband, meanwhile, has been out of work since February, usually going on at least two interviews a week, and still hasn't gotten a job.

[pitohui]

64. agreed the suggestion was for single males able to travel

the original post seemed to focus on single males who were at loose ends

if you are unable to travel then the suggestion is of no use if you don't live in the area, just as the suggestion was of no use if you are physically unable to do such work

no suggestion or opportunity can be used by everyone but some young men could change their lives by seizing the opportunity -- one person helped or ten people helped is better than zero people helped

too many people on this thread seem determined to just knock the heart out of people and tell them that there is no hope, nothing to be done, shoot yourself now -- i have these moods too, but christ, it's a crime and a sin to spread it around -- i'm trying to make it a firm rule every time i have the urge to leave a "what's the use?" post to delete it after i finish typing

there is too much hopelessness being promoted

the right wins because they provide answers, usually the answers are stupid, like joining some stupid fundy church but at least they do provide an answer

we need to look very critically at why we are tolerating all the negativity and defeatism -- it is self destructive and it's destructive to our ideals

"oh woe there is no hope" pushes people away and into the arms of those who do offer hope

well, too much typing in response to your simple comment but it was as good a hook to hang my comment on as any

[oscar111]

10. VA is a civilian agency, not run by military

or so i have heard.
anyone know?

[oscar111]

12. plan to end homelessness...

how to end it for good
================================
three groups in the hmless:
1. addicts: need funds to treat them all: funds to end the despair that drives them to selfmedicate with street drugs: access to legit RX pills for depression: jobs for all to end despair

2. mentally OR physically ill: need restoration of funds for state mental hospitals, now cut in half by RR and GOP followers: need funds for mental health clinics: PHYSICALLY ill: need nationalized health, as in all other developed nations. Free docs, with housecalls too, as in Eng. and Germany.

3. just plain poor: need JFA jobs for all.. see sig. : need "living wage" for the employed yet still poor due to lousy wages: need LBJ's "war on poverty" again: need fund to subsidize building of affordable homes, or have the government do the building with no private builders. A new WPA would be a fine thing to do the building.

==============================
HISTORY LESSON: there were virtually NO homeless between 'fourty one, and RR's cuts in the early 'eighties. So there is no need for homelessness. Social programs and good minimum wages and a good health system, can end it as was done right here in the US.

[Greyhound]

14. Why don't you link this? n/t

[oscar111]

22. PASTED it now, thanks for the interest greyhound

thanks

see the re i did above here... my original lame re about it. edited it.,

[Greyhound]

38. OK I'm being dense this afternoon. Can't find it, which post please. n/t

[oscar111]

20. RECOMMEND butt at bott of the OP

KIK

[oscar111]

24. AAR radio is most effective way to end this problem of men

and many other social ills.

These men's problems will not really end till dems get in office.

To elect dems, most time-effective action you can take, is to get the dem message out to Joe Sixpack.

AAR does that best.

To expand AAR.. air america radio.. get union locals to buy radio stations,,, google KUDO alaska


to get details on how IBEW local bought a station.

[WinkyDink]

28. Welcome to the 1930's.

[conflictgirl]

58. Hit the nail on the head.

[acmejack]

31. As someone entirely dependent on the VA for medical care

I can say that they have been catching grief for over prescribing pain killers, making them reluctant to give them out without the need clearly demonstrated. I lived in pain for months before I could finally get some relief. They won't just throw pain killers at you, especially narcotics. I have received pretty good care from an overstressed system doing the best it can with what it has. The Military doesn't run the VA hospitals the Veterans Administration does.

Lots of luck with the jobs, you find a stash for people with less than perfect health, like disabled vets in their mid fifties, let me know. I'd really like to have a little spending money again.

[qwlauren35]

44. Also...

Why did I think that Republicans cared for the Vets? (Maybe because it seemed as though it was veterans who went out of their way to bad-mouth Kerry?) Or that most Vets were republican? (I've noticed that a lot of vets like Reagan over Carter.)

And I *thought* that Affirmative Action used to cover vets, especially disabled vets. Was this true at one time, but no longer?

[acmejack]

45. There was a Federal preference on testing.

In fact, it was just juiced up for the guys serving in the present mess.

[pitohui]

56. yes i really agree w. this point, this worries me

they have been catching grief for over prescribing pain killers, making them reluctant to give them out without the need clearly demonstrated. I lived in pain for months before I could finally get some relief. They won't just throw pain killers at you, especially narcotics.

where i live it is sooo hard, it is too hard, to get proper pain management, the DEA and other law enforcement is in everybody's business and in the end too many doctors would rather cover their ass than to prescribe sufficient pain-killer for fear the DEA's super-duper computer analysis might decide they're dispensing too many narcotics

[McCamy Taylor]

40. I care!

:loveya:

[lonestarnot]

48. Don't kid yourself, everything is repiglican. If they create

jobs, then they may have to forego slave labor. Not going to happen.

[qwlauren35]

50. Hmmm...

I think perhaps my concern is whether all Democrats care, or maybe just some of them. Sometimes it's not just Democrat vs. Republican, especially during the primaries.

[lonestarnot]

51. Looking for things to make a ruckus among cats? Caring

won't be the topic.

[oscar111]

54. "caring" question: zero GOPers care.. and only some dems

alas, many dems are self-seeking.

Even catholic worker's founder dorothy day had a flaw.. if a RW source is accurate... DD liked personal helping, but opposed large state programs to help the poor.

is that accurate view of DD?

.........................................

NOTE. In some societies, caring is the widespread tradition. Dont let the US lead you to
a despairing view of all humanity.

Norway is "fiercely equalitarian".

North Italy birthed Turin, Milan, and the speaker Buscaglia.. of PBS fame.

[lonestarnot]

57. So you would trust a right wing source for anything?

hmmmmf sums up that brilliance.

[oscar111]

60. lonestar, i said "if", and also asked others to verify or nullify the RW

source. I was not trusting the RW source blindly.

can you comment on Dorothy Day? i am still needing input on her claimed view.

[Nikki Stone 1]

59. I imagine female felons and veterans have the same issues

All veterans should be cared for. This f@#$ing Republican party should be ashamed for cutting funding.

As for felons, there needs to be some way to reintegrate them into society after they have served their time, especially if the felony is not a violent one. I have severe reservations about child molestors, and feel their access to children should be totally barred.

[oscar111]

62. 14 percent cut by GOP to VA hospitals/bed; felons; below re also answered

1.
good stat to quote

stat figured out by me, from dollar source now forgotten alas

cut is per hosp bed, not overall.

Total funds to VA is up, but since also the no. of patients is up sharply, the per bed funds are less... bottom line. Iraq war is reason for more patients.

2. i recommend a guaranteed job for every felon. Only that will ever keep them from having to resort to crime again , in order to get food and shelter money. Obviously, in a massive Job Shortage... see my sig... they will never get jobs.

3. Muchomacho, see my sig for the nationwide picture. Moving might help a few but it obviously cannot solve the shortage problem.

[mucho macho]

61. Help wanted

I see help wanted signs everywhere. Maybe they are in a depressed town and need to do what I did-relocate.

[oscar111]

63. 14 million JOB SHORTAGE NATIONWIDE

so moving will only help a few of those.

See my sig for unimpeachable source... the feds.

Overall picture is of a massive shortage, and has been all thru the US history,.. except during the two world wars and the civil war. JS keeps wages low, is the reason for the shortage.

I could use a good academic source on the eighteenhundreds.. DU poster my only source on that time.

[pitohui]

65. but the feds just said something completely different

they said there is a huge shortage not of jobs but of labor, this is why the amnesty for illegal immigrants because we need them to do all of these jobs that are going undone

it seems to me that they are talking out of both sides of the mouth

[mucho macho]

66. reply

so I guess you are against mexican immigrants then, right??

[oscar111]

67. no. JS has been a problem all our history, not just recently

I am against the job shortage.

the mexican immi's are victims of the JS in mexico.

Needed, is a Jobs for All program in both the US and Mexico. See my sig for a site with
details on a JFA program. WPA is a model for much of such a program.

We need a humane solution for both our jobless, and the mex immigrants. Ending suffering is the goal. Ending it in both our nations. We are all humans.

[oscar111]

68. kik

kik