Are you contemptible of those who express fear of terrorists?

[bigtree]

Do you feel a need to hurl insults at them? Call them freepers? Call them cowards? Are they all just part of a conservative conspiracy to undermine our rights? Are they all just warmongers?

Or is there some understanding here for folks who fear terrorism after 9-11, no matter how irrational that may be?

We can't just sit and judge everyone from some us and them position. It is a fact that our country is at a heightened risk of attack because of Bush's military meddling and saber rattling. Do we really want to call those who may fear for their own lives as they ride public transportation or visit a public space, cowards? What happened to understanding? Are those who fear necessarily 'on the other side'?

I'm not fearful, but I'll be damned if I'll countenance folks who are being berated and belittled as cowards, or part of some republican plot. I'll listen, but I'll be damned if I'll be convinced to pile onto folks who fear.

[liberal N proud]

1. Not for the people who express their fear but for those who have

exploited the fear people have and propagated it.

[FreedomAngel82]

11. Yes

Exactly. And remember what FDR said: "Only thing to fear is fear itself." And what Franklin said. "Those who give up freedom for a bit of security deserve neither." (I'm paraphrasing here)

[AZBlue]

17. Well said!!

I for one do worry about terrorism and terrorists. I don't let it stop me from living my life in any way, but I do think they exist, I don't think they are (completely) an imaginary propaganda ploy, I do think they hate the US (especially after the last 5 years). However, also think that this administration has played serious psychological games with US citizens, has exaggerated or falsified threats for its own advantage, and has used the threat of terrorism here and abroad to cheat and lie and gets its way. In my book, they are no better than the terrorists - it's just terrorism in another form.

[No Exit]

42. Why? Why is it considered a different world now?

Anyone on any internet political forum can recite the various terror attacks against us in recent decades: the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, and the 1993 WTC plot. And the guys who were caught coming into the country one New Year's Eve.

9/11 was hideously spectacular and tragic, but it was not the beginning of "terror". Not even the beginning of "terror" in the U.S.

It's not the "terror"--it's the reaction. As you say, the worst ones are the ones who exploit others' fear.

I guess it'll be a lot better when those of us who can remember the world--and the U.S.--BEFORE 9/11, have died off. Then everyone can just overreact to their little hearts' content, with no "insensitive" and "belittling" people to try to slap some sense (or some courage) into them.

[LoKnLoD]

2. I feel sorry for them

it is sad to live your life in fear of something that will probably never happen.

[patrice]

9. ". . . never happen." ????????????????

Why do you think that?

I think it is almost an absolute certainty that it will happen again, and not just once either. There are thousands of people all over the world who now count it as "salvation" to go to war with us as terrorists. In exactly the same manner that many Americans think "standing up for your values" (patriotic, Christian, or otherwise) includes going to war whenever you're told.

On edit: Oh, I get it now, you're being sarcastic, right?

[durablend]

26. The problem being...

A large number of these people live in Buttfuck Utah where they'll be more likely to be struck by lightning right after they've (all) won the Powerball lottery as opposed to being the victim of a terrorist attack.

Don't you think it's just a little odd that the people who seem to have the least fear are in the places most likely to be attacked (if something did happen)??????

[patrice]

33. Well, yes, the probabilities of a given individual being hurt by terrorist

s can be low, but we are speaking from two different basic assumptions: 1) you should fear attacks based on the probability that you personally are in danger; compared to 2) you should fear fear attacks based on the probability that your community (in this case, soemthing called "Amereica") is in danger.

[Rich Hunt]

45. give me a break

...as someone else pointed out, 'terror' did not begin and end with 9/11. Try telling that to victims of racial attacks, for example. Try telling that to the survivors of Oklahoma City or Columbine.

The real problem is the current misdefinition of terror.

[stepnw1f]

3. A Forefather Already Called Those

who give up freedoms out of fear as COWARDS. And I agree.

[benEzra]

40. Exactly. (n/t)

[unblock]

4. i say, "what about lightning?" far more of a clear and present danger.

until we're seeing stores and malls and so on blown up on AT LEAST a monthly basis, then we don't have a major problem.

even then, it's still not much of a problem. keep it in perspective!

[LeftNYC]

5. I live in New York

I dont have any contempt for anyone who fears another attack. We go about our day as if it wont happen again, but I feel like why be scared. It will happen again at some point, but there is not much you can do to stop it. If it happens and I am in the middle of it, then i will deal with it then, but it isnt going to stop me from going places.

I agree with the above. Its not the normal joes/janes who I have contempt for, its the people using it to play on the fears of the nation.

[Danmel]

38. I agree with you totally

I too live in NY and while I certainly am not impeded in my daily activities by fear of another attack and I still live here, work here and recreate here, I do know that if there is another attack it isn't gonna be in Tulsa or St. Louis, it's almost certainly gonna be in NYC. And I personally know lots of people who witnessed it all and many friends of mine know people who died (fortunately, my friends all got out OK, including a friend who worked in #7 WTC, a friend who worked in the commodities exchange next door and a friend who worked in #1 but didn't go into work that day. )so no I don't have contempt for them.

I do find it astonishing that the people who are most willing to give up their rights are the people who are at the least risk and New Yorkers who lived through it all are less likely to agree to such steps.

[acmejack]

6. That's contemptutous.

"They that can give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

I'm with Ben.

[gordianot]

7. Terror is a state of mind. There is some cause for concern not terror.

There is real terror residing in missile silos a pResident (holding the button) with serious substance abuse problems, delusional personality disorder, and a history of using military force, is as close to a cause for terror as it gets.

[Greyhound]

8. Amerikan have become afraid of everything, no matter how bizarre

or unlikely an occurrence, they are sure it is going to happen to them. The best example is the west coast, biggest pussies on earth.

[FreedomAngel82]

14. Oh yes

If anyone here hasn't watch Michael Moore's film "Bowling For Columbine." That's a good film about the US with fear, violence and obsession with guns.

[Greyhound]

24. I thought it was great too. Why have so many missed his point

that our problems, while exacerbated by guns, are not caused by them. Many other countries have as many firearms per capita, but don't go around killing each other with them. :shrug:

[Patiod]

10. No, but I might be contemptuous of them

/sorry - admitted language nazi here

Seriously, because I fly constantly for work, I detest people who claim they won't fly anymore. Oh please, grow up - you're safer in the sky than you are in the parking lot at the mall. One of my housewife girlfriends told me "I would NEVER get on a plane now!", and I said "How nice for you now that you can sit at home on your ass while your husband does the flying." (I admire my friends who work hard at home raising kids, but don't play "cocooned safely at home" with me)

Every day, it passes through my mind that terrorists could bomb my crowded train station, but it doesn't keep me home in the 'burbs, shaking in my boots.

So, yes, I get a little nervous sometimes, so I should rephrase: I'm contemptuous of those who allow the fear of terrorism to in any way constrict their lives.

[ProfessorGAC]

15. Hey Patiod!

If you feel that way about those who allow fear to restrict themselve: How contemptuous are you of those who would allow the government to subrogate civil rights so they feel safe? I figure i already know the answer, but just checking.
The Professor

[Patiod]

21. What do you think?

:)

Especially the "I'm not guilty of anything, so go right ahead" crew. Would they want President Hillary Clinton wiretapping them? How about President Clinton opening their mail or reading their email? Maybe Senator Kennedy would like to see what they're taking out of the library....

Oh, so that's different, eh....

[ProfessorGAC]

23. I Figured You'd Say That

I cannot accept anyone enabling the actions of the gov't by letting their fear cloud their judgment apropos gov't spying.

Torture, domestic spying, lying to the citizenry, all ok because we're afraid. Well, NOT ACCEPTABLE!

Hope Christmas was ok. Hope New Year holiday is even better.
The Professor

[bigtree]

29. you don't have to act irresponsibly out of fear.

You raise a strawman with the subrogation issue. Try reading some of my posts. Bullshit to throw around insinuations without proof.

"You've stretched this resolution for war into giving you carte blanche"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5648474

Why I believe suppression of dissent by the WH is behind the NSA scandal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5636998

Illegal NSA Spying? It Isn't the First Time. Remember Frank Church?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5637627

10,000 files collected for Bush's enemy's list: Wilson, Moore, Boxer, Kos
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5622178

Congressional reaction- Let's hope they follow through on their fine words
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5621909

The sneaky frat boy took to the air today to tattle on his critics
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5619827

They hate our freedoms- Suppression and Liberty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5614411


I WORK MY ASS OFF HERE TO OPPOSE BUSH. I DON'T DESERVE TO BE PICKED APART IN SOME MCCARTHYIST SMEAR.

[MnFats]

25. another language nazi here...you beat me to it.

but yeah, I do fear terrorism.
Not a lot.
but some.
I glance around at my fellow passengers when I fly.
I haven't taken and weapons training or bought a gun, nor have I started work on a bunker.
Still, there are those out there who would like to kill as many of us as they could.
unfortunately, we (USA) spawned a lot of them.
bumper sticker I saw the other day:
"We're creating enemies faster than we can kill them."
sad but true.

[oldcoot]

32. I will admit that I do not like to fly

The reason I do not like to fly is because of the hassle and not because I am afraid of terrorists. I wonder how many of your housewife friends are afraid to drive. I think that driving if far more dangerous than flying.

Since everyday living involves risk of some sort, I really do not understand why people allow the fear of terrorism to control their lives.

[maxsolomon]

12. i'm more scared of an earthquake than a terror attack

if you can't live with the concept of FATE, don't get on an airplane or in a car. fear of a terror attack serves no purpose at all; it cannot stop it, it won't help you survive it, it neither increases nor decreases the miniscule chance that it will occur in an american city. 9-11 was THE terror attack, Al Queda likely shot their wad that day. i was as worried about a terror attack on 9-12 as i was on 9-11: NOT AT ALL. the vast vast majority of americans live their lives never coming near a symbolic target like the WTC.

even IF there IS another attack of the magnitude of 9-11, what of it? we will survive it; every other country does.

vigilance is fine. paranoia only serves the interests of OBL & Bush.

[BushOut06]

13. Israel has a problem with terrorism - we don't

At least, we didn't until we decided it would be a good idea to send hundreds of thousands of troops into Islam's holiest lands.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

16. I remind them that they're so much more likely to be killed in a car crash

that terrorism shouldn't even be in their top ten list of worries.

[Adelante]

18. No, I'm not

I'm contemptuous of those who claim it won't happen again.

[ProfessorGAC]

20. And If It Does, What Then?

Do we spy harder and more? Do we completely close the society and let government do whatever it wants to eventually prevent any possible attack? Small steps still get us to the same place.
The Professor

[Adelante]

34. Making quite a leap there, professor

Where in my post did I say a word about civil liberties, which I believe fiercely in guarding? Nowhere.

[Democrats_win]

19. The contempt is related to YOU taking my freedom away so YOU can be rich.

When i say YOU, i don´t really mean you personally, but those who argue for spying on me.

I´ve done nothing to YOU so why are YOU spying on what I read? I´m a man, so if YOU´re going to take away my freedom, give me something in return such as healthcare, a job and a pension. Instead, YOU´re taking those too!!!!!

[mike_c]

22. I cannot tolerate them using THEIR fear to justify taking MY rights....

Fearing terrorists is like being religious-- I don't mind if anyone does it, but I do resent it when they try to impress it, and its consequences, on others.

[ieoeja]

27. Yes

A former friend of friends falls into that category. He is the only person I know who voted for Gore in 2000 and Bush in 2004. He voted for Bush in '04 because Bush was killing all the bad people who made him so scared.

I actually held this man in contempt long before this (which is why I considered him a friend of friends; he was noone I wanted as a friend). Being a large, muscular coward is only one of the many reasons. From what I could tell there was no aspect of this man's being in which he was not pathetic.

[newspeak]

28. no, but

fear can make people commit heinous acts and fear can lead us down a very dark road to despotism.

[BonnieJW]

30. I only fear

this corrupt administration. Any terror we experience will come from them.

[gratuitous]

31. Define your terms a little further please

I certainly am concerned by the prospect of more terrorist attacks. Of course, I feel that I slot that level of concern properly by keeping up on the facts and latest developments from a variety of sources: governmental, popular media, internet research and my own gut feeling. Others with more or less information or in different circumstances may have a different level of concern, and I don't have any problem with that. If someone is unduly alarmed (in my estimation), I'll try to provide comfort, information and reassurance as appropriate so that their fear doesn't overmaster them.

However, there is a cottage industry in the United States that profits from keeping people unreasonably fearful. And by "unreasonably," I'm talking about folks in a bed-wetting panic living in East Bumblefuck, Wyoming who think that Osama bin Laden is plotting against them personally and that their toothbrush could go off any second. But even that level of paranoia doesn't bother me so much as when that person expects me to be as scared as they are, and insists that real breaches of the peace are nothing compared to their wild fantasies.

A case in point: Recently, the news has been chock full of stories about the Bush administration conducting illegal surveillance of civilians in the United States. Even the mild restrictions placed on the administration by the Foreign Intelligence Service Act (FISA) are too burdensome for Bush. I consider these unwarranted and illegal searches to be against the laws Congress has passed, and in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution.

Yet, there are some people so piss-their-pants scared of terrorism that they will call me a traitor offering aid and comfort to the enemy for objecting to such a material breach of my rights as a citizen of the United States. I consider their approbation of me to be born of little more than the fear they've been conditioned to feel for the last four years.

If someone is avoiding taking the bus to work or crawling under his car to look for explosives every day, then I regard it as harmless nuttery. When that same person, however, takes an unreasonable stance and insists that I quit taking the bus or check under my car because he's so scared, then I do want to (figuratively) slap him and say, "Snap out of it, man!" People who persist in trying to recruit me into their paranoia earn my contempt.

[bigtree]

39. That's the thing

folks act out their fears in different ways. Using fear to justify the crap that Bush has put us through is contemptous. I think folks can act rationally out of fear, but I couldn't tolerate the fearmongering that the administration has used to further their assaults on our liberties, from anyone. But there are pols, pundits, partisans, and plain folks living their lives. It's the latter that I'm concerned with in my post. Folks who have witnessed towers falling in the U.S. and bombings around the world and are fearful that Bush's actions have made another attack likely. Fearful for themselves, fearful for others. Fear that compels folks to wonder for their safety. It's a strange argument that might be made that Bush is reckless on one hand, and that we are not in danger because of his blundering on the other. There is a risk of terror. We have to put it aside to go on with our lives, but it can influence our actions as we try to alleviate it. We need to be prudent, but we should acknowledge that some of us fear, irrationally perhaps, but sometimes aggravated and driven by events and actions of those who are tasked to defend us. Bush's actions shouldn't keep us from understanding that folks all have their own ways of coping. It's been a freakish couple years. How do we put so much blame on our citizens for being fearful for the future?

[Zhade]

35. No, just those who let that fear override things like civil rights.

Or, indeed, any of the other things we hold dear.

[stillcool]

36. Irrational fears are the dogma..

on which our society was built. I can't blame people for ingesting what they've been spoon-fed since their inception. When one is raised to 'do' rather than 'think', and when one's entire belief system is a litany of memorized text, that one is warned 'never' to stray from...'or else'...well, there you have the makings of the 'American Dream'.

[EC]

37. I might ask why are they more afraid of terrorists than say

an auto accident? But I for one, know I'll die someway, somewhere, some day, so I don't let it rattle me. But what I don't get is why someone would want to give up their birthrights (freedoms) for protection of something that will probably never affect them personally...and for how long are they willing to live in fear? I really don't get it, there has always been terrorists, both domestic and foreign, so why all of a sudden are people so paranoid? They have already seen that ** and Chaney know nothing more than we do, so why let them scare you? Especially since we KNOW they LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE....

[oblivious]

41. Insults no. Private contempt, YES.

[Withywindle]

43. No - it's how that fear is dealt with.

I do worry about terrorism, sure. I live in a large dense city that could be a possible target--if you want large numbers of casualties, O'Hare or any Loop train station could be a good place. It's certainly possible. And not just here either -- my mother, who lives in Virginia, travels a lot, and she just HAPPENED to be in Bali when the latest bombing happened, not very far from the place where it happened. My dad and I had about half an hour of terror in between hearing the news and getting her I'm-OK e-mail. We're not invincible or immortal. You just never know. Live to the fullest and let your loved ones know how you feel while you can, y'know?

The question is, do you let it alter your life in ways out of proportion to the threat? I certainly try not to. I haven't changed any habits. But if someone I know decides to fly less, or avoid crowded tourist situations, or whatever, who am I to judge that? We all make our own risk assessments. I've taken risks in my life that some people would find unacceptable for themselves (example: I've tried heroin), and there are others who willingly take risks I wouldn't (example: I have a friend who's gone skydiving). Making decisions like that is part of life for everybody, I don't see this issue as fundamentally different.

I AM contemptuous of people who, as has been said here many times, absorb the latest media-manufactured scare story uncritically. I AM contemptuous of people who, to paraphrase Bill Clinton, "vote their fears, not their hopes." (And I mean "voting" with their feet, their dollars, their time as well as literal political votes). I will not stop traveling. I will not willingly give up one IOTA of civil liberties and privacy rights as a citizen. I will NOT be led to racist and xenophobic fears of the "other."

The worst part is that I know Bush's policies and right-wing attitudes toward the rest of the world have made more attacks on the US more likely, not less. Which just increases my white-hot, virulent blind animal rage at the morons who support him because they think he'll "protect" us.

[DanCa]

44. I pity them really

I can understand people wanting to protect themselves but there selling thier very ideals out due to fear. And I for one refuse to live my life like that. When talking to a conservative about terror it's kind of like putting a freightened child back to bed after a bad dream.

[tnlefty]

46. I just don't understand it.

Which I suppose is easy for me living in Bumblef*^k, TN. All I do know is that if I woke up in fear everyday I'd blow my own head off and have shocked quite a few people for saying as much. I've been thinking about this very thing today, and I've about come to the conclusion that people aren't overlooking the corruption, etc. of BushCo* out of fear anymore. I'm coming to the conclusion that it is more out of revenge, not being able to admit that Boy Blunder is really the Worst pResident ever, some cultlike religious belief or a combination of all of the above. I just don't REALLY believe that it's fear driven anymore.

The Bush** supporters around me are out and about and don't seem fearful, however they do seem to like the idea of blowing up innocent people who they think had something to do with 9/11. I read LTTEs in the local paper and fear isn't mentioned, the Bush** supporters just feel like they have to defend Dimson** and all that he does because they can't ever let the illusion be shattered.

[fujiyama]

47. It depends to which extent they "fear" terrorism

Everyone should acknowledge it. Sometimes I feel some on the left dismiss the threat of terrorism as a myth, but Islamist terrorism is real, both at home and abroad.

The question is, how should it be stopped?

That's where I get extremely irritated by some that are willing to throw away the concept of a free society to assuage some fear of a vague threat. The threat of terrorism is real, but irrational fear is stupid and I get the impression that many that fear this threat are the least likely to be the victims of it. I'm sorry, but Joe Blow in butt##$ville, Oklahoma is very, very unlikely to be the victim of terrorism.

The question I have for those that support police state tactics is simple. Why do you love this country? Does freedom have any meaning to you? Does the constitution mean nothing? Are you willing to throw away the rule of law because of religious fanatics killed a few thousand people. And if so, how long are you willing to live in a state, where there is no oversight.

And if they are willing to give the government complete, unfettered, and unlimited power, they are certainly cowards.