Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

JonBent DA's timing debated

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:14 AM
Original message
Though the Boulder County district attorney's office had enough undisclosed evidence to get a judge to order Karr's arrest in Thailand on a first-degree murder count, it was only after the warrant was issued that investigators started asking questions experts say would form the bedrock of a successful homicide prosecution.

For example, it wasn't until Wednesday morning, after Karr was in Thai custody on that warrant, that a representative of Boulder DA Mary Lacy's office called the Marion County School District in Hamilton, Ala., where Karr once taught, to seek anything in Karr's handwriting for comparison to the ransom note allegedly left by JonBenet's killer.

Similarly, Lacy's office has still not contacted the Colorado Bureau of Investigation to compare anything from Karr - DNA, handwriting, a palm print, footprint or even shoe size - to the evidence found at the murder scene.

Nor did the DA's office consult with education officials in Colorado or California to see if they could track Karr's teaching history. Karr's ex-wife and kids also weren't contacted to see if they would provide an alibi for Karr's whereabouts at the time of JonBenet's murder. The ex- wife has told a San Francisco television station that she is sure he spent Christmas 1996, around the time of the murder, with her and the family.


http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4206818

*********************************************************************

Since several posters have wondered whether or not a DA could/would extradite someone with no real evidence,m or without already checking alibis, etc., I thought I'd post this. I guess the answer is: yes!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. JonBenet is the white canvas on which the dark MIHOP II will be painted..
It was decided that Lebanon made a bad background for such an important work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think that's going too far.
It's a handy distraction, but I doubt it was planned to keep people's attention diverted from Bush's next terror attack.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Time will tell. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Rove controls all events on Earth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Who said Rove?
I don't think they would involve Rove with such a task.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. THEY control all events on Earth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. More than THEY should. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. Karr is starting to look more and more like a whacko
who accidentally got an answer or two correct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. He may have had help...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. The father?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. There is no known connection between the two. The father did it...
and the mother covered it up. Sometimes the obvious answer is the answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. BTW: When I said "He may have had help", I was referring to...
Karr's special knowledge of the crime scene.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day...
"BTW: When I said "He may have had help," I was referring to Karr's special knowledge of the crime scene."

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Or:

Punch aimlessly in the dark and eventually you will hit something.

This, after all, has been Karr's "life" for the last 10 years: obsessing about JonBenet's murder.

But I understand what you mean: Karr was being fed "facts" in his e-mail exchange with the Ramsey's "Chief Exculpator."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Your evidence is?? Consider the nature of the crime. It was someone
who was either very sick or held long-term anger or both. This child was killed slowly with a garrote after a blow to the head causing severe damage. That kind of sick sadism isn't going to remain hidden for many year, show itself once, and then go underground again. There would be hints and traces that would show up now and then and here and there. I've heard no evidence that this was so, have you?

For what it's worth, I'm unconvinced thus far that Karr is the culprit; I'll need to see a lot more convincing evidence that he was even in the area during 12/96 before believing that he is the killer.

The Colorado law enforcement agencies involved in this case blew from the first minutes of the case. It is not going to be easy to put the pieces of the puzzle together ten years later.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Garrotes are used in sexual practices to enhance the sex act...
Now, they did paint that child up like a young adult....whether they were sick enough to engage in incest I don't know. But I hear it's more common than we want to believe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. The ex-detective turned Ramsey P.I. is the guy I have my eye on...
And who pressured the DA into making the arrest? Hard to believe that normal channels wouldn't do minimal things like check alibis before recommending that the DA seek extradition on murder charges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I also just read yesterday that her autopsy photos were online
a few years ago. Totally unauthorized, of course. Ugh. They are, of course, quite gruesome and graphic.

So... the authorities didn't even see if he HAD an alibi?!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. "Hey, get Homeland Security and the Thai gov't on the phone."...
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 08:50 AM by Junkdrawer
"No, no time to check alibis."

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. They also never contacted the Sonoma County Sheriff
Who holds the outstanding warrant on him.

Just weird!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Now, as for "Who Killed JonBenet?" that's always looked like...
an "inside the family" job; the father or the brother being the prime suspects.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Akim Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. The brother was 9. Didn't have physical strength to savage JonBenet ....
Even the clueless Boulder police figured that one out.

There were two adults in the Ramsey house that night. The father who killed her and the mother who covered-up the crime.

It's a lucky thing these psychopaths didn't poison the brother with aspirin or Drano to make it appear as if he had committed suicide after "killing" his sister.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. Corporate Media Sure Did Their Trick On You...
Remember, the Ramseys were tried and convicted in the court of cable opinion. According to Nancy Grace and Domminick Dunne and other "experts", the Ramseys did it, period. To hell with confessions, evidence or reality, this case was settled years ago and anyone who "claims" to be the killer must be a liar, kook and possibly a "librul"...cause no matter what, the corporate media has tried and decided this story.

Here's a dude who comes out of left field after Patsy Ramsey's death...curious timing indeed. Personally I don't care one way or the other about this case, but the corporate media's saturation of this non-story and its apparent astroturfing to cover their ass is blatant.

If this is the killer, it's gonna be another blow on the already destroyed credibility of the corporate media...but they'll do their best to distort and distract as they have the megaphone and can dictate the narrative here. Just ask Gary Condit....he's still guilty of killing Chandra Levy, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. He still could be guilty of murdering Chandra Levy
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 09:51 AM by LostinVA
Or he may not be. Her murder is still unsolved.

He did obstruct justice, which isn't a good thing for anyone to do, especially a sitting member of Congress.

Re: Karr. I think alot of the MSM is twisting itself like a pretzel to make Karr look guilty: parading the dumb yearbook inscription, the debunked teddy bear "intruder clue," etc/ They had HIM guilty Wednesday night, saying there was a DNA match. Now, they are saying he's being extradited, which is false: he's being deported. HUGE difference legally and politically.

The DEnver Post's coverage has been pretty good and balanced, btw.

My opinion: no one murdered JonBenet... she was accidentally killed, and there was a well-intended but criminal and unnecessary coverup by at least Patsy Ramsey.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Guilty Until Proven Otherwise
I have little interest in the Ramsay situation other than sorrow for the ugly death of the little girl and those who innocently suffered as their lives were dragged through the mud by a corporate media that saw money in this personal tragedy. They cast blame, they made accusations with no need to be responsible or accountable...and most notable, with little concern for the due process or the concept of innocent until proven guilty.

If someone commits a crime, they deserve to face justice...but not in the media, but through the slow and steady criminal and judicial system. A system that's gone "Hollywood" in these cases...where the cameras suffocate the investigation and messes up things that make a bad situation worse...all the better for the corporate pocket books.

Let's see what evidence is presented, then allow the DA to either prosecute this case, not CNN or E or anyone who has not seen all the evidence. News is supposed to report events, not attempt to manipulate them as this and other "sensational murder" cases have done. It's creating a rush to judgement that destroys lives and more times than not have been proven to be wrong.

Gary Condit could have been a cad and adulterer, but there was and still is no evidence he was a murderer...yet the corporate media destroyed this man's life through speculation and non-stop "coverage"...meanwhile in a cave in Afghanistan, the final plans on 9/11 were being set and the asshat who plays president was falling off a bicycle on his chicken ranch in Texas.

Considering how many died yesterday in Iraq, how many lost jobs, lost health care and benefit and other real tragedies, this story deserves footnote coverage, not being "re-tried" in the same forum that basterdized this thing in the first place...and encourages them to rampage into more lives in the future.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Are you a parent? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Touting that yearbook inscription is strange. How
did that even come up anyway? Seems to me after seeing him on the news some old classmate would have had to have said, "My God, I went to hs with that guy. He even signed my yearbook." Out comes the old yearbook which is then provided to authorities who latch on to some obscure 4 word phrase - written more than 10 years before the crime - that happens to start with the letters S.B.T.C., as in the Ramsey ransom note.

And then the info is leaked and this is supposed to be some sort of proof of his involvement in the murder? This is nuts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L A Woman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. It could mean something...
if that was a phrase he used repeatedly from high school and up to the crime. It's common for criminals to have a mantra.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I Googled SBTC. Guess what was most common? Saved By The Cross...
I hear the sound of fundie heads exploding... :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Roon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. I agree
I would love for this to turn out that he was just a kook looking for attention. This story will be dropped so fast.

I have read the news, I have watched the video of karr....something is fishy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. A couple thoughts:
First, I am under the impression that they are not extraditing him. He is being deported from the country, and the US is taking custody. Similar, but not the same legal process.

Second, the guy strikes the average person as a fucking creep. He appears -- and this is solely from the few glimpses on tv, and reading the papers -- that he has some characteristics that fit the personality type known as schizoid. The inadequate relationships, the loner, the guy who believes he is a spectator of a world that excludes him, and a few other things. (I am not saying he "is" schizoid. Just that this came to mind.) Now, kind of like sociopaths/psychopaths, while these folks are "different" in very real ways, it does not follow that their condition is a mental illness. But there are a number of traits, or characteristics.

Part of the criteria one looks for is preoccupation with fantasy and introspection. However, while this might make one question if this creep constructed this in his mind -- perhaps with the help of the cheesey college professor -- it may be that in the next week we find there are more clues that tie him to the crime scene.

It's a strange case. This afternoon, I'll be at a picnic with a few of the best investigators (retired from federal/state agencies; some PIs) one could hope to talk to about their impressions of the case. I'm interested in their impressions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
independentpiney Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Maybe you can share their thoughts
when you return? Enjoy your picnic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Homeland Security???
Strange to me that it is Homeland Security that is involved on the US side of this. What the hell does HS have to do with arresting this wacko in Thailand or with a domestic murder to begin with. Therein lies my suspicion that this is all orchestrated by the Bush crime family. Too convenient to take the attention of the public away from Bad News Bush just at this particular time with JonBenet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
30. I can't believe
that the Boulder DA's office is going to try to pin the palm print and the Hi-Tec shoe print found at the murder scene on Karr. It's already been established that the shoe print was made by Burke Ramsey, JonBenet's older brother, and that John Ramsey's daughter Melinda made the palm print. There is even a Ramsey home video showing Melinda making the palm print.

Karr is a sick, disgusting pervert, but he is being railroaded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L A Woman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. If he's being railroaded, he's the engineer
I have a feeling that a video could surface of this guy committing the crime and a lot of people here would still try to pin it on Patsy Ramsey, despite the fact that she and her husband were both cleared by DNA in 2003 and the DNA of an unknown male was found.

This guy might well be a nut job who has convinced himself he's the killer or is just seeking attention. However, he could very well be the killer.

1. We now know that he did NOT say he drugged, had sex with her, or picked her up from school (as the media originally reported).
2. Investigators say they have not spoken to his ex-wife but her lawyer says she thinks he was with her at Xmas 96 but she can't remember what state they were in.
3. He had just started what sounds like a great teaching job in a prestigious school in Thailand. I doubt he would want to return to the U.S., where he can't see his kids and there is a warrant for his arrest in CA.
4. We don't know why the professor contacted the DA but something must have alarmed him. They had been e-mailing for years.
5. He IS a pedophile. This is not disputed by anyone. He may well have had different intentions and then had to kill her because she was fighting, screaming, etc.
6. Many criminals become obsessed with their own crime, admiring their work and the control they have over the fates of others.
7. If it is true that he studied the Polly Klaas case, that fits in well for a copycat crime as that happened in 1993 and also involved actually going IN to the child's house.
8. The end of the ransom note may or may not mean anything, depending on whether this guy used "Shall Be The Conqueror" as a common mantra.

It's certainly not out of the question that he did it. It will be interesting to see what else they have on him, if anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Not everyone who doubts Karr did it thinks Patsy did
Even many Ramsey supporters think he's the wrong guy. Determining this one way or the other will probably hinge on DNA.

Karr isn't the "engineer." He's a whacked-out, willing passenger.

According to molecular biologist Melissa Weber of CellMark Laboratories, the lab that did the DNA analysis on the samples found on the body, the so-called "foreign" DNA found on JonBenet's underpants (and under her fingernails) was degraded and had to be amplified through PCR amplification to obtain enough markers for comparison to samples of any suspects. During PCR amplification, damaged or old, degraded, imperfect DNA is amplified along with the good, and can give the false impression that another person's DNA is present, when it actually isn't. The two extra markers found in the "foreign" DNA sample could be merely stutter (also called shadow bands), a common problem occuring in PCR amplification, which often results in a false positive.

It has been theorized by law enforcement investigators and scientists alike that if the extra markers are actually from another person, that person could be someone who handled (or sneezed on) the underpants during their manufacture. The underpants were new, straight out of the package, and had not been washed prior to being found on the body.

If the markers from the amplified "foreign" DNA, erroneous though they may be, exactly match those in Karr's sample, they've probably got him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jul 22nd 2019, 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC