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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:22 AM
Original message
do I have any rights when it comes to employee evaluations?
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 02:00 AM by jbm
For the past ten years I've had this little part time job on saturday nights waiting tables. The manager has no education or experience that would qualify her to do such a thing, but the other day she made up what she calls a "Performance Evaluation" and demanded that everyone fill it out. However, it has nothing whatsoever to do with performance. The questions are such as, "List qualities that make you an asset to yourself," "What is most important to you," "What do you want most out of life," "What do you struggle with most in your life," etc. During the evaluation itself, she discusses actual job performance, but she uses no standards or criteria..it's just her subjective view of whether she approves of you or not.

There had never been any type of formal evaluations conducted by management in the past. The manager does have a history of going off on little power trips and finding ways to remind us who's in charge. On the basis of these 'performance evaluations' she has placed five people on a probation list, and unless they can change their ways and gain her approval within thirty days they will be fired. There was nothing consistent about the work performances of the five she has placed on thirty days notice..the five she chose were all people who she objected to on a personal level for whatever reasons.

Since I only work on saturdays, I have managed to avoid my evaluation. I have no reason to believe I would not pass, but the idea of it makes me so angry that I have decided to refuse to be evaluated.

Since the "evaluation" is totally arbitrary and subjective do I have a legal right to refuse? or am I seriously risking my job by refusing? I think I am ok with being fired if that's how it has to be, but if there is legal recourse, I'd love to be able to go in and tell her she cannot legally do the evaluations based on the criteria she has chosen.

Thanks for any help you can provide!
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KellyW Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. It depends on a few things
Where do you live (most states are "at will")? Do any of you have a written employment agreement ?

Are any of you a members of a "protected class" ?
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks for your response..
I live in Missouri, and there is no written employment agreement, nor are any of us from a protected class that I'm aware of.


Thanks again!:hi:
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. You would really have to check with your state labor laws
Stuff like this varies widely by state and location...

But it sounds like your problem has more to do with the management than the actual evaluations. And that's not uncommon. Workers and managers sometimes dont see things eye to eye.
Now, if that disagreement isn't resolved, it shows poor management skills on behalf of the manager. A manager is supposed to be a leader, not a ruler. And many managers and execs don't know how to be a leader.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I do think the management has the ruler thing going on...
and because of that, I don't care that much about working there any longer. I guess I might as well take a stand and go out in style.

Thanks for answering :hi:
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
50. If you need help filling that form out (for maximum amusement value)
post the q's and we'll help you get your manager all confused.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. I feel for you
Since no one has been supplied with a written list of job duties and minimum performance standards, I don't see how this could qualify as a "performance evaluation". But an employer has the right to terminate for any reason at any time. -- the only recourse I see for the restaurant is a mass protest by most everyone working there to either the owner or the district management (if it's a chain store). Don't expect much.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. I would love a protest..
but most of the employees just figure this is the way things are and they don't like it, but they'll keep the peace and do it.

It's a privately owned restaurant, but the owners aren't around much and when they are, they're sort of dysfunctional too.

:hi:
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sgxnk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
56. yes, but
"But an employer has the right to terminate for any reason at any tim"

depends on the state (and assuming the "any reason" isn;'t a civil right violation of course, as well)

and whether or not there is a contract, collective bargaining agreement, etc.

but yes, in an AT WILL state, this is generally true
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. I dunno, but you might find some help at this website....
http://www.workplacefairness.org/index.php?page=file_MO

And THIS might be VERY USEFUL to you: http://research.lawyers.com/Missouri/Employment-Law-in-Missouri.html

Under federal law, an employer doesn’t have to hire, or promote the most qualified applicant. But the employer cannot base decisions on personal characteristics that are not job-related.

But then...

At Will

The courts of Missouri follow an "Employment-at-Will" doctrine. This means that both the employee and employer can end the employment relationship at any time and for any reason, as long as it is not discrimination under the Civil Rights Act. Unless there is a written employment agreement, an employer may dictate or change the terms and conditions of employment. The employee can either agree to the terms and conditions, or refuse them and risk termination.


And then there's this:

And it’s illegal for an employer to terminate an employee:
For refusing to break a law
In retaliation for filing a discrimination or safety claim
For taking leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act
Without following its own stated procedure or policy
For reasons not contained in the employment contract, if one exists
The Missouri Commission on Human Rights (MCHR) is the state agency charged with enforcing the Missouri Human Rights Act. The basic powers and duties of the MCHR are to prevent (through education and outreach) and eliminate (through enforcement) discrimination. Persons who believe that they have been discriminated against because of a factor they can't change can file a complaint on a form provided by the Commission, but these complaints must be "filed" within 180 days of the latest date of discrimination.



Keep us updated on how this matter turn out...I find it fascinating!!!!!



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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. wow! Thanks!
and I promise to post the update tomorrow night.
:hi:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. No, And I Can't For The Life Of Me Understand Your Problem With It.
Performance evaluations are quite standard practice and there is a lot of value that can come from them. They are beneficial for both the employee and the employer as it is an opportunity to get feedback and address concerns. Often there will be questions like the 'where do you see yourself in five years' and they definitely serve a purpose and are informative, as are the ones directly related to job performance.

I don't know why you are taking this in such an offensive manner, but I can assure you that if you refuse to participate in a performance evaluation that your boss requests of you then you most definitely can expect youself to be shown the door for insubordination. And trust me when I tell you that no court in this land will consider that act to be uncalled for.

I mean this with no ill will, it is just simply the way many jobs are. If I were you I would take the performance evaluation, answer as honestly and skillfully as you can, and ask questions back such as "how do you think I could improve what I do?" or "In what other ways would you like me to excel in order to be more of an asset to you" etc... as well as letting your boss know in a civil and respectful manner any concerns you have.
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jerry611 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. You usually have to do them to get raises or promotions
Most companies won't give a raise or promotion unless your supervisor does an evaluation.

That's pretty standard practice.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I'd quit
Excuse me, do I show up on time and do my job - that's my work performance. Anything else is nobody's goddamned business. I swear I do not understand people like you. Is it conformity, fear, what the hell would make you think your boss has a right to get inside your business like that. I don't get it.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Obviously You Don't.
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 02:04 AM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
To be an effective manager it is good to know the motivations of an employee, their career goals and their demeanor. These are also standard questions asked during an interview process, and there is no reason why they shouldn't be followed up on during the course of somebody's career. It's called personal career development. Like I said, they can benefit both the employee and the employer. Why there is such animosity towards this quite simple and standard concept is beyond me.

But I do know I wouldn't want someone working in my group who had such a poor attitude about participating in a performance evaluation, and would welcome their quitting.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Perfect example of what's wrong with American management. nt
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. it's waiting tables one night a week..
and I've done it for ten years. What practical reason is there for anyone to know my motivation and career goals??
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. First Off, You're Assuming You Will Be Asked Those Questions.
Fact is, you have no idea how she will be evaluating you.

Furthermore, as a manager, maybe she wants to know what other areas of interest in your place of employment you have desire to work towards. Maybe she wants to see who is capable of advancement or wants to go in other directions such as supervision etc..

Since you only work on Saturdays your evaluation may very well be a short and simple one. But as far as the other employees there or in other companies it is beneficial to both the employee and employer to have quarterly feedback and evaluation sessions where career goals and objectives can be discussed as well as performance and issues around that performance. The personal questions, though usually not much in number, can be used to determine the motivations of the employee, their inherent strengths, or new desires for advancement or direction. It is a good opportunity for an employee to discuss their goals, get important feedback, and let their employer know what areas of the business they want to strive to succeed in.

When they are done correctly both parties should leave the meeting feeling like it was fair and open, and are better off for having had it.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. those questions..
were part of a long list of similiar questions that were in last weeks pay envelope. We were to bring the completed questionnaires to the evaluation. Mine is currently in the trash can.

This isn't some giant corportaion where there are people who don't know each other. This is a small restaurant where she already knows all those things you just mentioned. I think you've got some sort of 'corporate think' going on, when it needs to be more 'Joes cafe'.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. You're Probably Right There.
I am probably thinking too much in a larger business mentality and it is a bit odd for a small place like that to have these in that manner. But maybe business has not been meeting expectations and your boss simply searched online or got some advice on how help things run more efficiently. It could be that she is using what she was told or learned without regard to that information not typically being suited for such a small business.

Either way though, I would just roll with and talk your way through it and not go into it with such preconceived bitter notions. Although since you are in a position that you could probably find elsewhere easily, there also probably isn't much risk for you to hold your ground anyway I guess.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. This isn't middle management at IBM
It's a locally owned restaurant with no "career" to develop. Well, except maybe the manager who can put on her resume that she implemented a "career development" program. That it pissed off all the employees and caused half of them to quit - well she just doesn't add that ditty but that's what usually happens with minimum wage jobs and power tripping managers.

I've managed people too, btw, and never had the need to go prying into anybody's personal business. A performance evaluation is about just that, job performance. Forcing people to expose their personal foibles and insecurities is mostly useless, definitely rude and degrading.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. you said it better than I did..
Thanks!
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Well said.
nt.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #30
53. On the other hand:
I was tasked with turning a failing branch around a few years ago. I put out a questionnaire that asked in very broad terms about personal career goals, what the branch did best, what problems we needed to focus on, etc.

W/ that info we turned the branch around and made it profitable in less than 45 days. One response (from an ex-star but recently poor-performing salesman) also indicated that he had some huge personal emotional issues and after a private discussion, where I shared my own past experience w/ mild depression (HINT HINT, salesman!), he decided to see his Doctor, who diagnosed depression, set up counseling, & put him on a theraputic dose of zoloft. Within 6 weeks he was back to top sales status and not talking about divorcing his wife anymore. He was a very different man than the one I'd met that first day.

Just saying.

PS to the OP: Your manager is an idiot.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. But it wasn't a job evaluation
And I would assume people were free to respond or not respond with no reflection on their work performance or commitment to the company etc.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. True. I've never encountered a "make it up youself" job eval./formal
review. Ever. and I've consulted in staffing for hundreds of companies, from Mom & Pops to Fortune 100's.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. That's pretty naive
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 02:22 AM by bananas
A lot of places use them to justify firing people for ulterior motives,
or to arrange promotions for reasons unrelated to job performance.
Especially when, as in this case, the evaluation is completely arbitrary.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. Did you read the post?
It isn't possible for starters to evaluate an employees performance unless standards are set for that performance in the first place. Furthermore, the OP gave as examples that would look right at home on a personality quiz but have nothing whatever to do with any performance evaluation I've ever heard of. It sounds as if this manager is feeling out her employees for their personal views on matters utterly unrelated to their job in any fashion. At the least that is extremely offensive, and possibly illegal, depending of course upon the state regulations apllicable to the OP.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. There Is So Much Wrong With This Logic I Don't Know Where To Start.
But looking at the time it is far too late for me to inform you on the benefits and capabilities of the review process. And no, though having defined objectives is helpful, they are not mandatory. This is true especially when the duties are such that the goals to be met are inherently understood by the job itself. Furthermore, even outside of having had defined objectives it can be a starting point for goals going forward and a feel for the competency of an employee. There are many valuable things that can be shared during an evaluation.

But I give up in this thread. I'm kind of shocked at the level of rage displayed at this simple and informative process, and it's way too late at night right now for me to go back and forth a zillion times about why I believe this anger to be unwarranted.

So we disagree heartily on this concept. I'll leave it at that.
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IdaBriggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. I've been in the business world for decades now, and I've *never*
seen a "performance evaluation" that didn't address such basic concepts as "list your achievements" and "what areas do you think need improvement?" HOWEVER, what you are missing is that the original poster is bluntly stating that the form he has been asked to fill out has NOTHING to do with his job, his performance of it, or anything to do with his company, AND that he is personally aware of five other people who have been put "on notice" due to "personality issues" with the manager as opposed to any actual problems with their performance.

The original poster's issue is not with whether or not "job performance evaluations" are good; the issue is that THIS ISN'T A REAL ONE -- its someone with no background, education, or skill looking for excuses to fire employees she doesn't like because of her personal reasons (which could include, but are not limited to their religion, their sexual preferences, their hair color, or their marital status/children).

In a REAL performance evaluation those things aren't issues, but the original poster is not dealing with a REAL performance evaluation; the original poster is dealing with an uneducated, inexperienced person on a power trip -- a classic "big fish in a small pond." The hostility is NOT about NORMAL evaluations, but about A BIASED SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT BENEFIT BOTH PARTIES (which a good performance evaluation does).

Personally, I would throw away the list she gave, and write up my own questions (better ones!) with appropriate answers. "What benefits do I bring to this organization?" "My excellent people skills have won me a loyal following of patrons who come to this restaurant on a regular basis." "Where will you be in five years?" "On a beach with a margarita in hand after having won the lotto."

Okay, maybe not that last answer, but the idea is there! :)

Perhaps instead of assuming the original poster is a complete idiot you could offer to send a sample of a "REAL" performance evaluation review form for them to use?
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. this isn't a performance eval. this is a fishing exhibition into things
that are not related to the job. asking you personal questions about your life, your private thoughts, etc does not make this an performance eval. one of those discusses performance of your job. this is an invasion of privacy by a dick head.
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. that's what I think---if the questions relate to the job, then no problem
At my previous job (a school), the admin. has a multi-page evaluation of several people including the employee's self-evaluation, department head and all administrators. The admin. begged us to fill these out every year and said they do act on the suggestions and comments. All the questions relate to the jobs people are doing and there is nothing personal about the questions.

I had no issue with filling out these evaluations but the questions this supervisor asks are way off base, personal and have nothing to do with the job performance.
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sproutster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Actually I think they are stupid as well. Write ups are acceptable
for performance issues.

Performance evaluations are for goals in regards to raises. We have been on a wage freeze for 2+ years so wtf is the point?
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
43. my problem with it is the questions that were asked
Some of them had nothing to do with job performance at a restaurant.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
51. GOod pint. the OP should fill it out as minimally as possible and
keep the answers relevent to the jib--regardles of how the questions are framed.

Did the Mgr. get that list of Q's from Glamour magazine or what?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. Chain or local?
If it's a chain, they probably have their own evaluation process and maybe you could contact some employees from other restaurants.

If not, boy I don't know. I see your from MO and from what I understand they don't have much in the way of labor laws, but I never really checked. Do you know the owners??

My son told me about his evaluation at Fred Meyer which is a subsidiary of Kroger. It was pretty wacky too, I know the qualities question was on it and where do you want to be in 5 years - stuff that really doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with your job performance. And he was just pushing shopping carts so what kind of character assets does that take anyway.

Posts like yours make me glad I'm not in the work force though. I think I'd rather be self-employed and broke than put up with nonsense like that. Yuk.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. It's local but the owners are sort of inconsistent..
and even though I think they get that the manager is on a power trip, they know she'll always come to work. I guess it's worth it to them to not have to worry about running it themselves.

I hear what you're saying about being independent. I have a small business myself that I run during the week, and working part time at the restaurant was sort of a security blanket for slow times in my own business. I suspect that part of my problem with this is that I actually have an employee also, and my relationship with her has been that I've felt grateful for the help she gives me. The idea of putting her through some sort of subjective evaluation seems bizarre.

Maybe it's time for me to give up the security blanket..:hi:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Just politely refuse to discuss anything not job-related.
In making any written answers to such questions, merely preface each answer with "In relationship to my job, ..." and limit any response to job-related topics. An honest day's pay for an honest day's work, civility, mutual respect, personal privacy, being on-time both in arriving AND leaving, and other such references should result in the kind of focus you want. Anything else is out-of-bounds and a polite but firm reminder of that should be honored. If it isn't, take notes and collect any written materials for the eventual time you'll need them.

The most fundamental advice I give ANY employee is to keep a personal, detailed journal - a spiral notebook that you purchase yourself is perfect. Make it a sacred HABIT to write into it daily or more often. Second, collect a "CYA" file of any documents, including notes, relevant to your job. Encourage the boss to write things down for you "so you don't forget." Third, ALWAYS KNOW where you'll be working next if you got fired today. ALWAYS. Stay on the job market and keep in contact with former bosses and co-workers. Always.



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. What he said
This is probably a better idea than my "go fuck yourself" approach. :)

Excellent excellent advise - not curmudgeonly at all.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. thanks for you post..
I may try to go for 'just the job' questions and see what happens..

:hi:
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #10
45. "In relationship to my job" is the key.
Even if an employee doesn't say or write those words, the answer must be framed that way. Answering in a broader context is the most common trap, as is admitting to weaknesses that aren't apparent from job performance. Contrary to the way they are presented, performance evaluations are not of equal benefit to both parties. They are management tools. Employees derive far less benefit than management.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. this is America
you are a worker

of course you don't have any rights.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. LOL..true!
:hi:
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. Sounds like a kind of standard evaluation form HR People
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 01:59 AM by RamboLiberal
come up with. For several years my company has done this. I hate the things, but find worrying about it is worse than the actual evaluation. It can be useful if done honestly, but many times IMHO they are just useless exercises. I just basically chatted my way through all of mine - with some BS. :evilgrin:

You might hear a few things you don't like. Just honestly evaluate what is said. You may find some comments useful in improving yourself, and some may be BS. The ones I always hated was "I got some complaint you did or didn't do this...." It would make me mad because if someone had such a complaint...hey the person complaining should've came and told me at the time, not months/weeks later in an evaluation. But no use staying angry cause if you have a job you're going to have some conflicts or some jerk coworkers/bosses.

To tell you the truth the way my boss handled mine I found it a yearly useless exercise and thankfully none was done last year. I wouldn't mind it stayed that way for me.

But IMHO your blowing this out of proportion. Do the evaluation then decide if you want to keep the job or blow it off. I really don't think you have any recourse legally in this unless through the evaluation they would unfairly terminate you.

And since you said it's just a little part time job waiting tables, I'd bet if there are any other similiar establishments around you'd have no problem getting another part time gig.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. I appreciate your response..
I have wondered myself if I'm making this worse than it is. I just keep thinking it's a small private restaurant in a small town..I've worked there ten years. What's the point in this?

Thanks for your post though ..:hi:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. Absolutely Valid Response And Refreshing Perspective.
You said it better than I had, but really was where I was trying to come from.
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Kickoutthejams23 Donating Member (354 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
33. Has the restaurant been slow lately?
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 02:36 AM by Kickoutthejams23
I only ask because this sounds like a cover her a$$ idea from the manager. As you stated she doesn't have the education or the experience that would qualifier her to do such a thing. And the restaurant has no previous history of doing so. It sounds like she is trying to show the owners that she is on top of things.

Another couple of points.

1. Restaurant managers (esp ones working for a regular mom and pop place) are woefully underpaid compared to managers running similar sized businesses. Take into consideration the stress, employee turnover and hours worked I can sympathize with the occasional bouts of Power Trips esp on a busy night like Saturday when you get to see her in action.

2. Very few performance reviews have anything to do with your actual job. They are a common excuse for a little formal face to face time between Manager and each employee. It sounds like she got a fairly generic one off the internet and as these things go it sounds pretty tame. (Try filling one out that asks you how much you like to steal 60 different ways or one of those wonky psych ones that ask you to describe your feelings when you see a picture of a mother and child. UGH)

3. Managers do use them to put employees they are looking to get rid off on notice. It has nothing to do with the answers on the performance review and everything to do with the hundred little things about the employee that bugged the manager in the last year.

If you like your Saturday gig I'd fill it out with good humor and smile at your boss.

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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. welcome to DU!!
and thanks for your response. I think you're really close to what is going on, but I don't think it's a cya move so much as it is some sort of insecurity thing. A few months ago one of the two owners decided to take an even less active role in the business, and so he made two other employees the equivalent of assistant managers. Most of the people who work at the restaurant are responsible and motivated by a desire to do a good job, so there really isn't a lot a manager has to do anyway. I think she felt threatened and decided to assert her power through the evaluations.

She's always done stuff like this and usually I just get where it's coming from and go with it, but for some reason this time it's crossed a line with me.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. Hi Kickoutthejams23!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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kurth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
36. As long as it's not discriminatory or prohibited by statute
An employer can do whatever, whenever, however to whomever they want. It's just a fact of life in America.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. sounds like she took a class...and is trying out the ideas on you guys.
doesn't sound like an evaluation based on job performance to me.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
40. I've never had a job WITHOUT some form of evaluation.
and I've worked in the food service industry as well.
Your manager seems like a politically dangerous person, and all the more important to stay reasonable with her/him.
You seem to want to change jobs, and that's fine, but I would suggest that in this day and age, burning bridges is pointless. You'll NEED to leave on a good footing or you'll find getting the next job more difficult.

in this fascist world, the employers have the upper hand, you don't have to work for them, but keep in mind that acts of protest may make you feel good temporarily, but in the long run they accomplish nothing, especially if you intend to go somewhere else. Any act of protest will be perceived as a personality conflict and marginalized and ignored.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
42. Every so often..
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 07:53 AM by sendero
.. if you are a worker you will find yourself working for an idiot (and especially the worst flavor, an idiot that doesn't recognize that they are an idiot) or an asshole.

When that happens, you have a decision to make. It is worth fighting to get-rid-of/neuter the idiot/asshole or just move on?

Only you can answer that question, but IMHO fighting for a one-day-a-week job would be almost as dumb as asking someone who is waiting tables what their life plans and career goals are.

"Life plan: to obtain a job where I'm not working for a moron who thinks she's Dr. Phil"

As for "rights", it looks like the company has to have some kind of written performance criteria to do performance evaluations. But as a practical matter, getting anything done to remedy this would IMHO be 50 times more effort than it could possibly be worth. If I were one of the employees on probation, I'd be trying to find another job. Chances are, this person plans to dump them and this is just a kind of bizarre ritual to make her feel better about it. Everyone could gang up on her and try to go over her head, it would be satisfying but probably not successful. Higher-ups tend to back their managers even in the most abusive situations.
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
46. The question isn't "do I have any rights", but
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 08:41 AM by mcscajun
"are these evaluations proper"?

Based on the information provided, probably not. I am not a lawyer, but I worked for many years in a large corporation with formal policies on damned near everything, and I know that there are many legal issues involved in performance evaluation. For one thing, no employee could be dismissed before they had received one oral warning, followed by three written warnings, all documented, signed by the employee, and placed in their file. Cumbersome, yes, but Human Resource departments and legal departments are always involved in creating all employee manuals and performance review processes and documents; they are working to protect the employer at all times. As you said, this manager appears to have little training in creating such documents, and may have placed her employers, the owners of the restaurant, at legal risk, and they may not even know it.

Only a lawyer from your state could tell you if there are any grounds to sue, should you be fired for refusing to participate in such an evaluation, but that doesn't mean you cannot voice your objection, preemptively, to the owners. If you are going to do that, though, you should be prepared for the consequences; you could be fired, or you may still want to quit.

If you want to discuss the issue with the owners, and you cannot see them directly, you could send them this item on employee evaluations as backup to your comment that she is not trained to prepare such documents (hell, they may not even know the manager has created this new process, and/or they could be as legally clueless as she is. All emphasis in the attached excerpt is mine.)

How do I avoid legal problems when giving employee evaluations?

Create an evaluation form for each job category that focuses on the skills needed for successful job performance. Focus on job duties, not personality traits. Some generally appropriate considerations are work quality, dependability, punctuality, and communication skills. Allow your employees to see the form ahead of time, so they will know the basis for their evaluations.

Be honest and consistent with your employees. Try to maintain an overall positive approach so your employees will be motivated to improve, but don't sugarcoat the bad news. Give your employees a real opportunity to improve by giving them constructive criticism and performance goals. And make sure to back up your evaluations with real consequences: If an employee is far exceeding expectations, consider giving a raise or other recognition. If an employee is having serious performance problems, discipline might be in order.

(snip)

Evaluate performance, not personality. Focus on how well (or poorly) the worker does the job -- not on the worker's personal characteristics or traits. For instance, don't say the employee is "angry and emotional." Instead, focus on the workplace conduct that is the problem -- for example, you can say the employee "has been insubordinate to the supervisor twice in the past six months. This behavior is unacceptable and must stop."
http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/pg/6/objectId/EBB2FDB8-D51C-4685-9EA06EDFD801845C/catId/58D31B3D-0B74-42D0-B15027FA0D308122/111/259/177/FAQ/


Related article from the same site:
Can my employer require me to take a psychological test before giving me a promotion to management?

Psychological tests given by employers are highly questionable and often invasive. If the employer doesn’t seem to have a sound reason for giving the test, and if the questions make you uncomfortable, then you might have a legitimate claim that the employer is violating your privacy rights.

Another:
Which Tests Are Legal

Generally, an employer must have a sound, work-related reason to require a current employee to submit to testing. But even that might not be enough: If the test is too intrusive or delves too deeply into personal issues, it might unlawfully invade the employee's right to privacy.

Unfortunately for everyone involved, there are no hard and fast rules about whether a particular test is legal -- courts generally decide these issues on a case-by-case basis, looking at all the facts and circumstances. For the most part, you can assess whether a test is unreasonable by using simple, common sense: If it makes you very uncomfortable or seems unrelated to your employer's business interests, then you might be within your rights to cry foul. For example, an employer who inquires into your sex life or your religious or political beliefs probably crosses the line, while an employer who tests only for necessary job skills is probably on safe ground.

Regardless of whether the test would otherwise be reasonable, it will be illegal if it unfairly screens out disabled workers who could do the job with a reasonable accommodation. That would violate the federal Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and similar state laws that protect against disability discrimination.


At the end of the day, though, this is still a one-day p/t job, and is all of this worth it? For myself, I'd have no problem sending this all anonymously AFTER I'd quit the place. :)
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
48. I always ask my control freak boss for a copy of my evaluation. It
is something they don't expect and usually question why you want a copy. Tell the boss you want to study it to see how you need to improve so you can get a better raise next year. Also if you have several good evaluations and they fire you for some bullshit, you have documented proof that you were a good employee to attach to your resume.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
49. Evaluate the evaluater. Go to her supervisor and tell them that it seems
Edited on Sat Aug-19-06 09:37 AM by 1932
that her decisions about probation are based on her personal feelings (say everything you've said here).

Management will not want to lose good employees just because they aren't liked by their supervisor (and they really won't want a bunch of waitresses whose only qualification is that they supervisior likes them personally, because that's really a recipe for inefficiency).

However if you live in an at-will employment state and you don't have a contract which requires cause for termination, they don't even need the evaluations to fire you.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
52. another perspective: She's trying to get the full picture before she fires
someone for bad job performance? There are several reasons why she may have suddenly started doing the evaluations. For one thing, it helps her when it comes time to talk to the DOL about specific unemployment claims from fired employees. Maybe she has noticed a lot of slackers lately and wants to begin a formal process of warning people that their performance is not good enough. Rather than just jumping to conclusions and firing the slacking employees, she wants to get a broad idea of any extenuating circumstances?
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
57. i don't think you have to sign anything, in the event you do, you can...
have a letter out in your file along with the eval; especially if you think it might dis-color any future consideration for a job in the future with another employer
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-19-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Most ex employers are extremely careful of what they say to
another employer about your job performance for fear of being sued! This is another reason you should demand copies of good evaluations!
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