Do You Have The Spine To Not Kiss Corporate Ass?

[omega minimo]

:hi:

[skids]

1. Haven't had to kiss it in two years...

...of course, that's due to unemployment. Not very sustainable.

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. Ummm... Yeah. I slave for a County Entity.

I could give up my job as an employee of a Registrar of Voters and go to work for a corporation, but I'm bigger and better than that.

I have "the spine".

Peace

[senseandsensibility]

3. My entire life is dedicated to that.

I walk the walk, brothers and sisters.

[Jed Dilligan]

4. What constitutes kissing ass?

Working for corporations, I did only briefly and stopped years ago.

But I'm using an Apple computer... not one I built in the basement. Is that a form of ass-kissing?

[TomInTib]

5. My mailbox and my bank account are regularly visited by the biggest

mofo corporatons on the planet.

And I spend their money only in individually-owned entities (except for power, water, and the like).

[roguevalley]

6. yes. always. :)

[Der Blaue Engel]

7. What does that mean?

I'm obviously wandering into GD in the middle of something. Just curious.

[PFunk]

8. Actually yes...

When I world for a 'company' (I wont say where). And after two years got canned because of it. Under the excuse of "I don't work well with others". Meaning in reality I refused to do things like work on weekends, or attend the boss' 'special' gatherings. I got along with my co-workers great.

Because of that experiance I prefer NOT to work in a major corp unless it's a position which I've left alone to work (and let them judge me by my work-NOT by how much I suck up to the big brass).

But that's me.

[OneBlueSky]

9. it's not my spine that matters . . . the spines that matter are those . .

of Members of Congress and U.S. Senators . . . the vast majority of which are currently the consistency of Play-Dough . . .

nothing changes until one of the major parties takes on corporate influence in government . . . the massive campaign contributions, war profiteering, price rigging (e.g. oil), the perks, the writing of industry regulations by those being "regulated," etc. . .

the only option, of course, is the Democrats . . . but most of them are under one corporate thumb or another . . . (it's the dollars) . . .

so we need to elect NEW Dems who are of a different mold, i.e. willing to refuse all corporate contributions . . . and finance their campaigns exclusively through huge numbers of modest individual contributions . . .

given the absurd fiscal realities of U.S. political campaigns, that's a mighty tough sell . . .

but an absolutely necessary one . . .

[omega minimo]

24. Great post

...and when state legislatures and Congress vote to accept enormous pay raises, it's justified as "what they would earn in the corporate sphere, so we can get the best people..........."

Who decided "the best people" for public office are in the corporate sphere?

This bullshit helps smooth the way for the current CEO White House, corporate cronyism, corporate wars of choice for corporate profit, privatization of government services......... and the Bushco education plan:

LEAVE NO BILLIONAIRE BEHIND!!

[RebelOne]

10. I work for a huge corporation and I'm not complaining.

They are quite good to me. I have a great job, wonderful benefits, but the salary could use some improvement. So, you could say that I kiss corporate ass.

[phylny]

11. My husband works for a large corporation, and has for 25 years.

The corporation provides things, in exchange for the great job my husband does, that any Democrat would want all Americans to have: Fair salary, 401K, stock option plan, health benefits - including medical, dental, orthodontic, eye glasses, mental health - company savings plan, pension plan and medical benefits after retirement.

This hated company has, all in all, benefited our family tremendously, and while there are things that we have disliked throughout the 25 years, the payoff for his hard work will come in the form of a secure retirement.

Yes, it could all end poorly, but this company is NO Enron. Too anal for that ;)

[antigop]

13. If you are counting on a corporation pension....

you need to look at the new pension bill. It does NOT bode well for older workers. It legalizes cash balance pension plans -- older workers can lose out on a big part of the pension they were counting on.

Unless you are a member of a union, with a contract, you really need to look at this pension bill.

See my post here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1927402&mesg_id=1927704

Please don't think the company you or your spouse works for won't take advantage of this new way to screw their workers.

Also, if you are counting on retiree medical benefits, and you don't have a contract, those can be taken away at any time.

Edit: deleted last sentence regarding Lucent. I need to find a link.

Also added: I am not an attorney. This is not to be construed as legal advice. But you should look at how "secure" those retiree medical benefits really are. I'll bet they aren't vested.


Second edit: Link to a NY Times article on retiree health benefits:
http://www.pensions-r-us.org/Health_Limit_Retirees.htm

[phylny]

14. Thanks. We're not counting on the pension; it's an extra-added

source of income.

My husband may well take a lump sum and invest himself, when the time comes. His company may screw him and fellow employees, they may not. However, as of today, it's been beneficial for him to work for a large company.

[sendero]

17. I agree with you..

... labelling the enemy as "corporations" is awfully simplistic. I'm a corporation, personally, myself.

Corporations are just groups of people working toward a common goal. Some of them suck a lot, and some do not.

Working for a corporation does not make one a bad person. It's a lot more complicated than that, and I prefer to leave the over-simplifications to Republicans.

[omega minimo]

23. "Corporations are just groups of people." Corporations are not "persons."

"Corporations are just groups of people working toward a common goal."



"Working for a corporation does not make one a bad person."

You support and endorse them with your choices-- or not.

[omega minimo]

19. What do they make?

:hi:

[phylny]

20. Petroleum products.

;-)

[omega minimo]

21. O

:yoiks: :yoiks: :rofl:
:rofl:






Whew-- thanks! I needed that :rofl:

[phylny]

26. Why are you laughing?

I'm dumb, I guess. Perhaps I should have lied?

[omega minimo]

27. Not at all. Thank you for candor.

I LOL b/c there were many things I might have guessed that might involve some soul-searching on behalf of the recipients of corporate largesse (easier to imagine than those that would NOT potentially compromise personal values); in the sense that we choose what we support with our labor and our purchasing power.

"Petroleum products" may be near the top of the heap for the implications those words hold with connotations of Big Oil in the WH and Big Oil's war in the destabilized ME and "petroleum products" including just about every consumer item under the sun right now-- including food and medicine, etc.

So-- it was a funny surprise. :hi:

Do you remember in "Bowling For Columbine" when Micheal Moore toured the Lockheed Martin facility and stood in front of humongous missles talking with the plant manager and how the folks in the town, who mostly worked for LM didn't think about the connection to Reality of their jobs?

We each have to work this out in this world. It would be powerful for people to think more about choices in labor and purchasing decisions. To know they have choices. To decide what to support -- or not.

The OP, as minimal as it was, was spurred more by culture than employment. I wonder about kids who have grown up in this corporate branded hyperactive commercial media bubble and how they sort all this out. Do they question or challenge the political power of corporations while wearing/listening/viewing/ingesting/using all the various products of those corporations? Do those kids give themselves the option to "opt out" of supporting and enabling corporate rule with their daily choices and life decisions?

:toast:

[Tsiyu]

34. Aha

Okay, I think I understand where you're coming from.

Yes, I work for a corporation. This corp is in the service sector, a contract company that is worldwide.

If you can afford them ( on my pay - no) there are benefits: medical/dental/vision/disability and those benefits are also offered to same sex couples. There are good parts about this corp and bad parts. They are one of the few places on the mountain where a person can make a living wage. This has more to do with students of the university that has the contract - the students led a movement to see that university employees were paid a decent wage and the students won. (I love those kids!)

I'm sad to say my kids are varied in their support for corps. I try to steer them away from the corporate trap, but "the $5 deodorant works better" and "the $10 contact solution doesn't hurt my eyes." They wouldn't be caught dead in Abercrombie and Fitch clothes (they like Goodwill better) but my daughter actually suggested mcDonald's the other day. I HATE McDonalds, but pressed for time, I agreed.

What to do? I'd disengage entirely myself. There's no cable TV or satellite dish here, but my horse and chicken grain come from a corporation, as do many products I buy. Most of my grocery shopping is done at an outlet -UGO - where food is marked down severely, so I rarely pay retail for food.

Someday I may be able to lead a corporation-free life, and I'D LOVE TO see us all be able to turn our backs on corporations, but I don't have enough independence presently to cut them off entirely.

How are you doing it, omega minimo? Any suggestions?

[omega minimo]

40. Heard a great interview on Ring of Fire today

with an author named David _____ and didn't catch the book title. He was talking with RFK Jr about a new message for Demcrats based around healthy families, healthy communities. That might be a way to look at this question too.

We all do what we can, where we are, with the options available. (like you are:hi: ) First we realize that our individual/family choices matter and we have some power over that. Ever wonder why more folks don't see this as a way to send a message?

Ways to get off the conspicuous consumption treadmill? Where possible BuyBlue, support independents, avoid compromised/exploited labor products, don't wear their damn logos, support local farmers, buy used, have the healthiest diet you can..... "Don't give them any more of your money than you have to."

And don't think it's all one way or the other!!

[Tsiyu]

41. "Healthy families, healthy communities" sounds like a winner

It's so hard to think about how much we feed the Beast. It takes research to know who helps or hurts us and most of us don't take the time to do the research.

The funny thing is, the corporations are hurting themselves with their policies. The less they pay workers, the less these same folks can spend as consumers. The more corporations stick it to the little guy, the harder those corporations will fall when the little guy can no longer support them.

We really must - as a society - address the shrinking middle class, but those in control really want a shrinking middle class. So this means people MUST learn to live with less, to carefully choose where we spend our dollars, and to sacrifice as much as we can to send a message.

As I slowly try to wean myself from the Corporate teat, I realize how futile it sometimes seems but I also feel a sense of relief at not being played for a fool anymore. And that encourages me to keep trying.

Thanks for bringing this issue up in a very open way! :pals:

[omega minimo]

43. Thom Hartmann's new book "The War On The Middle Class"

He covers this topic frequently. Recently said that they want to destroy the middle class and maintain a working poor with just enough $$ to buy their products..........

"We really must - as a society - address the shrinking middle class, but those in control really want a shrinking middle class. So this means people MUST learn to live with less, to carefully choose where we spend our dollars, and to sacrifice as much as we can to send a message."

When we simplify and create healthy, empowered lives for ourselves, it doesn't feel like "sacrifice" as much as appreciation, gratitude for what we have and a connection with others in our communities (and the global community).

:toast:

[cigsandcoffee]

35. Bowling for Columbine - distributed by United Artists & Alliance Atlantis

....

Big corporations, the both of them.

[omega minimo]

37. Countering with a "purist" approach is an easy way to avoid the subject

completely.

[phylny]

36. Twenty-five years ago, oil didn't appear to be the big monster it

is now.

My husband has a few years to go, and then he's out. I, on the other hand, am self-employed. Incorporated, yes, but no big corporation :)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. Glad To Hear It. Some Want To Believe That All Of Them Are Evil.

I work for a great company as well and I'm glad to hear that you are in a similar situation. I enjoy going to work every day, no matter how frustrating and hectic that day might be, and I'm fortunate to have great benefits as well.

[Skittles]

12. yes

I told my boss I would not be volunteering for any trips to assist with offshoring jobs - I told her I AM NOT AN OFFSHORE WHORE

[graywarrior]

15. O yeah.

I find laughing at them right in their face keeps them off balance. Course, I work for myself now mostly. I'm not a good employee.

[InkAddict]

18. Kissing corporate ass is foreplay for rape n/t

and the victims take the rap, i.e., one deserves it for a)being too expensive; b)trying to maintain health; c)corporate jeolousy of the heterosexual marital relationship that deprives corporations of total 24/7 obedience and productivity but provides for planned obselenscence and renewable automatic new victims in about 18 years (kids); d)being too old and ugly to bother training on how to Kiss Ass more effectively and to the greater corporate glory; e)using credit in the manner in which it was intended to strip away assets and increase vulnerability; f)falling in love with eating, driving, and the almighty buck/tax that buys America's WMDs on the market from resellers close to home and around the world.

[omega minimo]

22. message in the post helps the title not kill the thread

:toast:

[WilliamPitt]

25. Hm

The computer you posted this on was made by a corporation, as was the software within the computer. Do you eat food? Corporations grow the food, ship it, broker it, stock it and sell it. Drive a car? Corporations build the car and process the gasoline.

So...yeah, not sure where you're coming from here.

[omega minimo]

28. Not gonna go all Either/Or on us, are you Mr. Pitt?

We all have to sort this out. It's good to know we have options. :thumbsup:

Pretending that it is All One or All The Other is a big mistake and helps folks deny that they have any choice about it at all.

[hfojvt]

30. maybe it's an apple computer

Food is a bad example since there are local farmer's markets, food co-ops, or gardens, fishing, hunting - less corporate ways to obtain food - although whether the inputs - tractors, seeds, fertilizer, fishing pole, rifle, bullets, etc. were corporate free would be tough, unless one is Amish.

How about going to Wal-mart? Or Not?

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0819-22.htm

[Hidden Stillness]

29. Many Things From Many Sources

Hi, omega minimo! Well, as usual, your thread topic can actually be taken several ways, and has to be thought about. Only certain people have the luxury, therefore the ability, to refuse to cooperate with corporate degradation completely, so what attribute does that signal? Are they more "rebellious" than those who have to put up with things, or are those who are, for example, forced by corporate edict to smile constantly on the job, at customers, etc., more "wussy" or "spineless," because they do it? If they do it, and seethe with rage the whole time, then they are not cooperating but seem to; on the other hand, many "corporate climbers" who suck up to management are oblivious to what they are--they think they are "go-getters." Are the ones with money, who can walk away from the corporate life, more "principled" than those who stay for the unrelated reason that they can't afford to quit--anything?

This is like the fiction that your vehicle "expresses your personality." It only expresses your personality if you have enough money that you actually bought the vehicle you wanted; sometimes all it expresses is that it runs. Which is more anti-corporate: leaving the corporate world, or working there but hating everything every second of the day? At opposite ends, they are the same.

Of course, it must be mentioned, that never at any time do you actually indicate that the "kissing corporate ass" refers to the workplace and job conditions. In our mind-controlled, corporate pseudo-cultural atmosphere, where everything is play-acted and "framed" for effect, and what seemed to be a window on the world was really the corporation's mirror aimed at you, "anti-corporate rebel" has now become a commercial pose, brought to you by our sponsor, and "groovy rebel/I say whatever I want/nobody stops me," is actually an audience-deliverer, on behalf of a corporation, for its sponsors. Sometimes, the biggest corporate dicksucks are Howard Stern, etc., "groovy" blah blah, but who "oddly" never offend the sponsor.

What we need is a Government that is stronger than the corporate cartel, so that if people try to fight corporate crime, malfeasance, etc., they might actually even win.

[omega minimo]

31. HS, When will I learn?

"...your thread topic can actually be taken several ways, and has to be thought about." B-)

"Only certain people have the luxury, therefore the ability, to refuse to cooperate with corporate degradation completely, so what attribute does that signal?"

True. I don't think it's possible to refuse to cooperate "completely" and we have to find a balance. Jello Biafra puts it, "Don't give the ____ (bastards?) any more of your money than you have to."

"Which is more anti-corporate: leaving the corporate world, or working there but hating everything every second of the day? At opposite ends, they are the same."

It's a challenge to remain human.

"Of course, it must be mentioned, that never at any time do you actually indicate that the "kissing corporate ass" refers to the workplace and job conditions. In our mind-controlled, corporate pseudo-cultural atmosphere, where everything is play-acted and "framed" for effect, and what seemed to be a window on the world was really the corporation's mirror aimed at you, "anti-corporate rebel" has now become a commercial pose, brought to you by our sponsor, and "groovy rebel/I say whatever I want/nobody stops me," is actually an audience-deliverer, on behalf of a corporation, for its sponsors."

Beautifully put. Have you read Thomas Frank's books or The Baffler? That faux rebel pose is part of what stimulated the OP question.

From #27 "The OP, as minimal as it was, was spurred more by culture than employment. I wonder about kids who have grown up in this corporate branded hyperactive commercial media bubble and how they sort all this out. Do they question or challenge the political power of corporations while wearing/listening/viewing/ingesting/using all the various products of those corporations? Do those kids give themselves the option to "opt out" of supporting and enabling corporate rule with their daily choices and life decisions?"

And as you say:

"What we need is a Government that is stronger than the corporate cartel, so that if people try to fight corporate crime, malfeasance, etc., they might actually even win." :toast:




http://www.alternativetentacles.com

[B Calm]

32. I hate the fact I work for corporate middle managment sociopaths!

That said, I take great pride in the fact that I never suck up to any of them.

They may be sociopaths but they are smart enough to take my shit because they know I'm valuable labor working for not so valuable wages.

[cigsandcoffee]

33. V For Vendetta was brought to us by a corporation....

For example. Is watching it kissing the ass of Warner Bros.?

[omega minimo]

38. Paying top$ for movie/concert/sport/snack tickets is

While those companies make RECORD profits.

Music corps put out a lot of repetitive crap and then whine about how their sales are down, while charging $20 plus for new CDs. When that format was new, the price was predicted to come down as manufacturing costs lowered and never did. Why not?

Who can afford to go to ball games?

Who pays $60 for a ticket to an amusement park? How much does it cost to take the family to Disneyland these days?

Who pays over $100 to see a popular music act?

.....................................

[Deja Q]

39. Nope.

[omega minimo]

44. Well, that's an answer................... although...........

:evilgrin: an ambiguous one.

This a.m. you have an OP that appears to be riffing off this one....... took a glance and you say something about "gradually" changing your lifestyle.

That's something.
:hi:

[deacon]

42. Yeah, it's why I don't watch corporate news n/t