Wow. We've been wrong all along. The president IS Above the Law.

[Philosoraptor]

How about that? Turns out all these years we've been living in a fantasy land as far as the president and the rule of law. As it turns out, they probably didn't even have to impeach Clinton, cause presidents are actually above the law, as bush has finally proven, much to our shock. Who knew?

If we'd known this, we could have saved Nixon a lot of grief and lots of other presidents too. Just think of the historical implications, all those silly presidents who thought they had to obey laws.

What a terrible waste its all been, why didn't someone show us the light before bush? It finally took a man like him to show us all the way of the future in which the old saying, "no man is above the law, not even the president" is just a quaint and antiquated slogan.

[snappyturtle]

1. I have one big question.......

can signing statements and total presidential disregard for FISA be undone after * is impeached?

[Philosoraptor]

2. As I see it, all future presidents will be above the law

Unless of course they are Democrats, which is the deal breaker.

[Monkeyman]

3. on the kos he just signed one today

[unschooler]

5. When Shrubster is impeached... presidential disregard for the law

will go out of style for a few years. When he's sentenced we'll know the rule of law has prevailed.

[kenny blankenship]

8. you will need to spell it out (AGAIN) in big boldface letters in an

amendment to the Constitution. FISA and other measures were intended to restore the understanding that the President's powers are contained by the Constitutional system and existing law. Bush has been ignoring those traditions in favor of his new dictatorship "Unitary Executive" powers, which he neglected to let everyone else in the government in on with a helpful explanatory announcement when he decided that he was in fact a dictator.
Unless Bush is impeached and tried and convicted for usurping the powers not granted him by the Constitution, or an amendment is approved which spells out for the clueless the plain meaning of the separation of powers and the inviolability of the "bill of rights", you can just forget about that whole dusty parchment called the Constitution henceforth. It means NOTHING if its terms are not enforced. If one President is allowed to say of the Constitution "its terms mean whatever I say they mean", then the next President-Dictator will claim the same power, and that comes to the same thing as the first case of a non-binding and unenforceable Constitution: at the supposed center of our laws and government we have a document that is null and void.

Either we apply the law that we have and under which Bush is already plainly guilty, or we shrug it off and say, OK, OK we'll make the Constitution more clear SO EVEN IDIOTS CAN UNDERSTAND IT and make an amendment which would take away Bush's claim to be operating either legitimately (I have these powers) or in a legitimately gray area of interpretation (I thought I had these powers), and we nail the next President who tries to act like Bush; or else the Constitution is not really the law anymore and it is dead and no longer binding upon us.

You will have to pass an amendment to the Constitution drawing a red outline around the Presidential powers forbidding him to suspend civil rights or to ignore Constitutional precepts such as the balance of powers under any circumstances, because previous measures like FISA which were intended to reestablish balance were promulgated as statute law, and Bush has shown nothing but contempt for such "controls" worked out as statute law in the past by the three branches. It has to be a new part of the Constitution brightly underlining the limits on the Executive established in Article II. And maybe you would want to specify a very stern punishment for Presidential violators under this amendment to show how seriously you take grabs for dictatorial police powers. Personally however, I think there is really no substitute for prosecuting Bush under the law that already exists (FISA). No new law or Constitutional clause delineating the difference between abuse of Executive authority on one hand and lawful conduct on the other means anything if people just make excuses and pass more laws whenever clear violations have been found to have been ocurring. There should be no argument. Bush violated the law. There is no gray area of interpretation at play here: FISA was after all supposed to underline the civil rights protections of the Constitution and the Constitutional balance of co-equal branches of government--and Bush blew by it like it was a stop sign in a stripmall parking lot. Another episode of underlining isn't going to help. Make an example, prosecute Bush for his crimes and punish him fully, OR just forget about a future with legitimate government for the governed in this country.

[snappyturtle]

16. Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I think we can bypass a new Constitutional amendment reigning in Bush and subsequent presidents who would find his tactics amenable. I do agree that this president HAS to be prosecuted for violation of present laws and that passing more laws just to be again ignored would be folly and would allow presidents in the future to do the same as Bush has done. Unfortunately, Bush has gotten his way for so long and to such a degree that that in itself has propagated, giving Bush, in his small mind, precedent to continue.

Next big question: What is the president's intent to ignore existing law(s)?

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. I want to know when the International Court is coming for him

and the rest of the his WH posse.

I really want to be there. :evilgrin:

[texpatriot2004]

6. brilliant...

:rofl:

[IndianaGreen]

7. Bush: "I am the law!"

Published on Friday, January 27, 2006 by the Boulder Daily Camera (Colorado)
Bush: 'L'etat, C'est Moi'
by Helen Thomas

We are now learning what President Bush considers to be the limits of his power—nothing.

In public appearances this week, Bush defended his program of domestic spying without court approval, citing the inherent war powers of the presidency under the U.S. Constitution.

The president points to his status as commander-in-chief and the resolution — approved by Congress three days after the 9/11 attacks — authorizing him to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against the terrorists.

It is an obvious overreach of presidential prerogative; thin justification for what amounts to a snooping foray against Americans and others in the U.S.

It all smacks of France's Louis XIV's famous dictum: "L'etat, c'est moi"— "I am the state."

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0127-20.htm

[Ravy]

14. Seems to me the Merchant of Venice would apply here...

.. if Congress *did* all him to use all necessary and appropriate force" against terrorists...the first non-terrorist he had listened to was a breach of his authorization, even by his standards.

[orpupilofnature57]

9. SHRUB IS ABOVE NOTHING!

That's in compassion, vision ,discernment and everything that constitutes leadership.He is the porno we deserve.

[NightOwwl]

10. Damn those strict constructionist judges...

:eyes:

[Imagevision]

11. Bush only needs to know how to fully manipulate the law to his advantage

example: Bush appeals recent judge's NSA ruling, and it'll stay in appeals court until 2009...no biggie, been there done that too many times for Bushco!

[Philosoraptor]

12. Without an actual opposition, he may as well be the king.

Or the prince.

[WestMichRad]

13. * will just issue a signing statement

... and pardon himself for all crimes, for perpetuity. Think of it as a lifetime "get out of jail free" card. After all, being pResident is just like playing a game, right?

As long as they can sufficiently stack the judicial system and maintain majority status in Congress, he's safe. No doubt that's what his gang is counting on. Alternatively, with their self-enrichment (and the right rich friends), they'll all be in some offshore haven like Dubai when the political winds finally shift.

Sorry for the downer, but my guess is that most of these crooks will never pay for their crimes.

[Philosoraptor]

15. Most assume that the criminals will skate

And at this rate, they will.