Just rec'd RW email against Muslims - anyone have responses for it?

[blm]

This sounds like another one of those chain "stories" that are generated by the Bob Jones team of hitmen in SC.




A FRIEND WRITES:

Allah or Jesus

Living in the Detroit area I can concur with this, we have more
Muslims in our neighborhood monthly and they are very active in the
schools preaching all the time about their "rights" and how tolerant
we should be of their faith. However toleration is a one way street
with them. We are to learn about Ramadan, etc. but they are not to
learn about Easter or Christmas. What is below is very true. "In God
We Trust"

The Basics of Islam
(This is a must read -- it's short but Very informative! )

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the
United States, especially in the minority races!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Allah or Jesus?

by Rick Mathes

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for
maintaining my state prison security clearance.

During the training session there was a presentation by three
speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim
faiths, who explained each of their beliefs.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say.

The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam complete
with a video. After the presentations, time was provided for
questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:
"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams
and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad against
the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is
a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If
that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"

There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation,
he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All
followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of
your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and
command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his
hand in the cookie jar.

He sheepishly replied, "Yes! "

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine
Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith
or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
Heaven!"

The Imam was speechless

I continued, "I also have a problem with being your friend when you
and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let
me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you
to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love
you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame.

Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
"Diversification" training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of
dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the
Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but
with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there
is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story
and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison
ministry.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Here's a response:

"Go fuck yourself, you lying sack of shit."

[Jo March]

8. i think that just about sums it up

Although I'd send them the Snopes link (someone has it below) and then - in a Reply All - ask to be removed from this person's racist, bigoted, anti-Christian email list.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Question...

did anybody really need Snopes to tell he's a lying sack of shit?

[Jo March]

16. Some folks do

I find that Snopes will get me a sheepish response where if I just rebut it myself, I don't get anything back.

The tip-off for me is that the killing of innocents is forbidden and anyone who reads the Qu'ran knows that.

[blm]

37. Oh, I KNEW it was a lie - just wanted access to responses already crafted

BECAUSE I knew it was a lie by the time I read the first sentence.

[Whoa_Nelly]

2. Always check Snopes first

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

Claim: Prison imam is questioned about Islamic attitude toward infidels.

Status: False.

Example: Mathes, 2003
Longish read, but to the point

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[independentpiney]

5. Please, educate yourself n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. ...

"Secondly, no imam or mullah would "hang his head in shame" about Islam's command to smite the necks of infidels. They are proud of their killing for their bloodthirsty ideology, not ashamed of it."

Didn't read Snopes, did you?

:rofl:

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. I'll say.

Funny how you agree with it and all.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. No.

You imagined it has something to do with Islam.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. By your logic, Magonaga...

Christianity is the religion of child molestation.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. Why stop at Catholicism?

By your logic Christianity as a whole has a child molestation problem.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Mmhmm.

I'll say.

[acmejack]

33. Nice broad brush there Bob.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

43. I wish to kindly point out something

with which you might not be familiar. Islam is not structured like many Christian sects are. A particular imam or mullah may speak for themselves, and may be backed up by followers, but they don't have the power over great groups of Muslims like, say, the Pope does. These mullahs and imams, and even the Sufi Pirs and Murshids, are considered people who are fallible. My teacher is a lovely person, but I do not think of him as infallable as a devout Catholic thinks the Pope is infallible; nor can my teacher "excommunicate" me from my path. He is not a guru in the Hindu sense, where the guru is worshipped as a living embodiment of That.

This is not denying that many religious leaders who say they are Islamic have been speaking in a rather bloodthirsty tone lately. But they are by no means ALL leaders, and they do not have the power over their fellow Muslims that gurus or priests or preachers have. Each Muslim is responsible for his/her own salvation.

And there are many, many Muslim religious leaders who are speaking out for peace-you just don't hear of them much, because their words aren't considered "news". If you are able, I would suggest you check out posts at the Muslim/Islam group, or go to www.muslimwakeup.com to get a broader picture of what is going on in Islam.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

42. Bravo!

Excellent answer, and right on the mark!

[Sapere aude]

34. Have you ever read about the Inquisition? All religions have their evil

doers.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Howardx]

10. 12 posts

before you blew it. pretty shabby

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Check out the other 11.

Laugh riot.

[blonndee]

17. Your post is also "horseshit."

Are you proud of your bigotry?

[arcane1]

19. followers of God are to kill babies and rip open pregnant women

hosea 13:16, anyone?

[alfredo]

4. It's a Christian right lie. The republican and christian leaders

have contempt for their followers. They show that contempt by lying to them continually.

Here's the Snopes.com link debunking this false propaganda.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

"The man who gave the presentation about Islam was not a Muslim minister; he was an inmate pressed into service to present a short film on Islam and answer some questions when the prison's Volunteer Coordinator was "unable to find an Imam to speak."

Moreover, reported Mr. Kniest, the prison's Volunteer Coordinator said that "The inmate did a good job," adding, "He was asked a few questions that were beyond his ability to answer. But he was not asked anything like that question ":
. . . the Volunteer Coordinator at the prison said that no such exchange as the editorial reported ever took place. "He certainly did not 'Hang his head in shame'," according to Kniest. In fact, the inmate was thanked by the assembly before being escorted back to his quarters. Furthermore, the coordinator does not recall any questions dealing with jihad against the infidels of the world as reported in the editorial.

In the editorial the inmate is presented as an Imam, or Islamic minister, which he clearly was not."

If you still have the e-mail. Put the link and the quoted text in a reply to the sender and anyone else on the Cc. Remind them that most hoaxes are from a rightwing perspective, aimed at a right wing audience. Remind them that the apparent goal of such e-mails is to increase the divide between Americans.

[blm]

21. I absolutely agree it's borne out of contempt for their base.

I said the same during the campaign about the "Kerry voted for it before he voted against it" bullshit. They EXPECTED their audience to not know that ALL senate votes are FOR one version of a bill you agree with and then vote against the version of the bill you DON'T agree with.

They really do MOCK their base when they pull shit like this.

[alfredo]

39. That's got to be said loud and clear.

[Oreo]

6. Lying sack of crap

You’re a lying sack of crap, you’re a lying sack of crap. You’re a lying, scheming, stinking, nasty sack of liquid crap!

Gotta love Snopes. Make sure you do a Reply To All to the message.. that REALLY pisses them off

[Goat or Panic]

40. PLINK PLINK

nt

[BrotherBuzz]

9. Here's some good ammunition

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1933878&mesg_id=1934164

[blm]

14. Just what I needed - - can't believe I missed it.

.

[knitter4democracy]

18. I live in Michigan, and that's a bunch of crap.

I have good friends in the Detroit area, too, and I haven't heard anyone upset about the immigrant communities there. It's an old feature of Detroit, so what's the problem? If anything, people are pissed that the Feds are constantly arresting good men of the Muslim faith for no good reason, often not charging them, and then going to the press with their WOT crap.

Btw, if you're anywhere near Detroit or Ann Arbor, eat at LaShish. Best food ever. *happy sigh* We had some last week, and we dragged our friends there, and we're still in bliss over how good it all was. Amazing service, amazing food, and good prices (they load the plates, let me tell ya!). The one we went to was packed, and there were people of all skin colors, faiths, backgrounds, and economic levels there. It was a beautiful thing.

[Rex]

23. If you really do want to reply, tell the moran that sent you this

that that is an extreme view of Islam. Islam does NOT preach to kill the non-muslim, anymore than Jesus Christ went around telling people he was a Holy Warrior slaying non-christians. :eyes:

To the core of the believes in most religions is peaceful co-existence. Saying Allah or Jesus is like saying the Tanakh instructs Jews to kill every non-Jew, fantasy, doesn't say that. The Vedas say nothing about killing all non-Hindus. Once again, it is like saying Buddha preached death and destruction on non-Buddhists. Rubbish, a political agenda if there ever was one.

People take out of context whatever they want from the Bible, Torah, Koran and most other 'authority' on peoples morals written in a book and considered sacred. People do this to control the masses with illusions of grandeur, and to rise in political circles. Bush does it, the leader of Hezbollah does it, OBL does it, Pat Robertson loves to preach death from the Bible.

IMO, people just can't come to grips with modern times. Need to live back in the 900s or the 1400th century.

[gratuitous]

24. Isn't there something in the 10 commandments

Something not bearing false witness, or as it's more colloquially known, lying?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

26. Well I can certainly tell you that this encounter never happened

It is all made up and this isn't the first time I have seen it.

It is however further proof that the followers of the religious right and the neocons will believe just about anything that makes them the hero with absolutely no further inquiry. :nopity:

[Boojatta]

27. It looks a bit like a parody.

I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Please pass this on to all your e-mail contacts. This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry.

Why does the author want to force people to read it?

How do the justice system and ACLU prevent things from being "widely publicized"?

Are the words "this is a true story" supposed to actually persuade people?

[El Supremo]

29. Quote the Qur'an back to him.

<2:62> Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[arcane1]

44. Fundies don't even read their own damned book

I don't expect them to read anyone else's

[blm]

45. yeah, like the congressmen from Georgia behind the 10 Commandments

amendment who didn't even KNOW the 10 commandments himself. All show, no go with Republicans.

[Bucky]

31. Even fundy Muslims don't regard Christians or Jews as unbelievers.

This such an obvious lie. An imam of all people would know to say that Mohammed taught that "people of the Book" (meaning Jews, Christians, and more recently even Zoroastrians) are believers--they follow God's teachings, but haven't woken up to the revelation of Mohammed. They are to be tolerated as a matter of Sharia law (altho Muslims aren't allowed to backtrack into those "less evolved" religions).

The story is bunk.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

41. First of all,

"Allah" is Arabic for "God". I have Christian friends (Roman Catholics) who were born and grew up in Jerusalem and whose native tongue is Arabic. I have looked at their Arabic Bible, and "Allah" is the word used for "God".

Jesus is respected as a Prophet of God in Islam. There are many, many passages relating his words and teachings, and one whole sura (chapter) is named in honor of his mother, Mary (Miriam).

The Qur'an talks of those who don't believe, that is true, but it also says that the People of the Book (those who have a Holy Scripture) ARE believers and should be treated accordingly.

Over 600 imams in this country issued a statement quite a while back denouncing terrorism. (see Muslim group for link), so this crazy notion that all imams support terrorism is ridiculous. They do support "jihad", which does NOT mean terror, but merely struggle. Your "jihad" might be with working amicably with a pushy boss, or your "jihad" might be with your temper, and your attempts to control it. The Beloved Prophet said that the lesser jihad, when you fight others, is ONLY to be done when you are deprived of your right to worship-and there are strict limits on what you can do. Needless to say, what the terrorists have been doing in no way conform to the limits or the reasons for undertaking the lesser jihad.
The greater jihad is the struggle with oneself, one's own ego.

As for not being allowed to teach about Christianity in school-this is an outright falsehood, as far as I, a retired teacher, know. Religion, especially Christianity, was always brought into the elementary classroom as teaching the culture of a given area. I think what gets some people all upset is that now the schools are teaching, AS CULTURE, a bit about other religions, and that could lead to understanding and tolerance.

Kindly and gently let these people know that what they are sending along only displays a certain lack of understanding. And if some respond in a nasty manner, realize that they are asleep, and having a nightmare. God willing, we will all awaken from this collective nightmare soon, that we may see the unity of the teachings of all the wise throughout the ages.

[OnionPatch]

46. I've read this before, this is old

It's been passed around for years. I could swear I saw it debunked somewhere, but I can't remember. I knew it was a load of crap the first time I saw it. I have Muslim friends and have spent time in the middle east. "Believers" to them are Christians, Muslims and Jews, not just Muslims. Over and over I was told by Muslims that those three religions believe in the *same* God. Jesus is one of their prophets!

The jihadists were clearly in the minority in the middle east when I was there a decade ago. Everywhere we went people treated us great, were extremely hospitable and friendly. It wasn't until our government waged war on what they saw as innocent people in Iraq, that the jihadist numbers began to swell. Could it be that made a lot of the people in the middle east feel that WE have a JIHAD against them? Just asking. :shrug:

When is the American right going to get a clue??!! :banghead:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. The Snopes rebuttal linked above looks fairly thorough.

There are undoubtedly Muslims who do believe that they are commanded to kill all non-Muslims, but there aren't many of them, and the ones who do believe that a) wouldn't be lecturing in western prisons and b) wouldn't be sheepish if challenged on it by a Christian.

[mr blur]

48. I'm sure this was a Jack Chick tract, wasn't it?

If it wasn't, it should have been.