Were you sexually abused?

[helderheid]

[helderheid]

1. so far... WOW.

[CrushTheDLC]

5. I stopped being shocked by the numbers years ago...

...when it seemed like every woman I knew had told me what had happenned to them :(

Normally I'm not a violent man, but give me 5 minutes alone with a child molesting perverted piece of shit, and I just might change my mind.

[johnaries]

8. Same here. Almost every woman I've been close to told

me that they had been abused or date-raped. One of them by her cousin.

[fishwax]

15. ditto on the shock

when I was a kid, i remember hearing adults (like my father) claiming that the numbers in the media regarding abuse/assault/etc. were inflated. Since becoming an adult, speaking with friend after friend, I've come to believe that, unfortunately, they are severely deflated. :(

[bananas]

16. The numbers used to be 1 of 4 women, 1 of 6 men

has that changed?

[Bassic]

33. That or just a plain old rapist!

I know what you mean. This kind of thing makes me so angry, I scare myself

[woo me with science]

164. Recovered memories are a problem in the statistics.

The numbers on actual abuse are terrible any way you look at them. However, we also still have a major problem in this country with so-called "repressed" or "dissociated" memories of abuse. More women than you think are involved in therapy that teaches them to look for buried abuse as a reason for their current problems. These memories are unlikely to be factually accurate.

The problem is so widespread that many research scientists interested in the effects of abuse now make a point of excluding women subjects with such recovered memories from their studies, because they do not want that information contaminating their results.

[melnjones]

175. Research shows repressed memories do happen...

http://www.jimhopper.com/memory/
http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/art3v2i2.html

Those are just a few examples...
I agree with you that therapists need to be trained properly as to not "implant" memories, but dissociated memories are extremely common and extremely troubling for the survivor. I understand this all too well, and in my case there is evidence that shows what I remember DID happen. No one can question whether I'm making it up or not...the abuser did the exact same thing to two other people. One remembers it clearly, the other very vaguely. I confronted the first one to see if anything like that had ever happened to her and it had...on an almost daily basis for both of us for years. Yeah, it seems strange that you can repress something that happens that frequently, but it happens.

[woo me with science]

177. Actually, research does not.

Of course there is documentation that people can forget specific instances of abuse. There are also many cases in which people choose not to think about episodes of abuse for years, because the memories are painful. The concept of repression, however, is not supported by what we know about human memory.

I am talking about the many cases in which women as adults come belatedly to believe that they were the victims of severe and repeated abuse in childhood, when they never realized it before.

We have zero good evidence that such memories are accurate, and many reasons to believe that they aren't.

[melnjones]

189. So...

If someone were to sit here right now and tell you that that's what happened to them and that they have evidence to prove that the abuse really did happen, you still wouldn't believe them?

[melnjones]

242. do you even look at links that people give you? nt

[babylonsister]

6. I answered 'no', except for the guys on their made-up golf course

in their backyard feeling my boobies when I was 11. :eyes: They were pervs, but innocent, and I don't think it affected me.
Or did it? :think:

[LostinVA]

55. I actually think that's a "yes," even if you weren't affected

[woo me with science]

180. Obviously this is a screen memory

for satanic ritual abuse.

The fact that you don't remember it PROVES it was repressed!

[madeline_con]

2. That's sad...

I had no idea it was such a huge percentage!

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. Percentages in a self-selecting poll don't mean anything

Because people who haven't been abused may not vote in the poll, because it's not a subject on which they feel they have much to say. You'd get a better idea of percentages if you started people off just answering general poll questions, and then this question came in - with the option of "I'd rather not say". In both cases, however, people who were abused may not answer, however anonymous the poll, because it's so traumatic.

[Contrary1]

3. You probably need a "not sure" category. n/t

[helderheid]

4. done

[Bucky]

202. dupe-

-licate

[Bucky]

203. Is the "not sure" option in reference to the abuse or the gender?

Inquiring minds, don't cha know...

[hyphenate]

7. Well......

sort of, but since I was old enough to know what these two asshole friends of my father were trying to do, I was able to walk away, but it's not like they didn't try. As a child, no--I was spared that, thankfully.

[Kerrytravelers]

9. This doesn't surprise me.

I've called CPA (Child Protective Services) on many of my student's parents over the years.

I'm surprised the numbers aren't higher.

[slackmaster]

86. How often do people who haven't been abused call CPS

To report that they haven't been abused?

:dunce:

On edit: I'm also not surprised that out of 93,000+ registered users a hundred or two have been abused. Keep the poll going long enough and you'll easily pass 1,000.

[EFerrari]

10. I voted no although there were uncomfortable incidents with

my single mom's boyfriends more than once.

I guess little girls are just fair game. And everyone seems to just look away. :shrug:

[Jamastiene]

28. I think that seems to be the case with little girls all too

often. Heaven help the molestor if he touched a little boy though. Everyone wants his head on a stick and his ass in a sling then. Most people seem to think it is part of growing up for little girls to get molested, unfortunately.

[Bassic]

34. Rest assured, a lot of people, starting with me

Get just as angry when hearing this about little girls. Gos these things make me so mad :mad: :grr:

[Jamastiene]

43. Good. I hope you become less and less the exception to the rule.

In other words, I hope more people join you and me in our outrage at it. Neither little girls nor little boys should ever have to endure such horrendous mental and physical damage.

[Bassic]

46. In my neck of the woods I'm not really an exception.

So there is hope I guess.

[malmapus]

94. You're not the only one.

Espicially now being a father myself and having a daughter who's about to turn 3. Don't think any kind of divine intervention could help anyone who would dare lay a hand on her.

[Bassic]

160. As a father as well,

I know damn well what you mean.

[dsc]

77. I must say any reasonable reading of current events suggests

the opposite is true. We have seen woman after woman get by with sleeping with middle school boys while men are put in prison for sleeping with middle school girls. They both deserve prison but currently it is only the men getting it in many cases.

[Jamastiene]

204. What's her name?

Laterneau? Didn't she spend time in prison? I thought she did. She should not be the exception either. ANYONE molesting kids, be they male or female, should do some serious prison time. Repeat offenders, IMHO, should be at least medically castrated, if not physically castrated. I'm still not sure if that will stop them from preying on children again. I tend to think jail time for life is the only answer we can currently offer to child molestors. ALL child molestors, including those women who prey on middle school boys, should the same life sentence, IMHO.

[dsc]

228. Only after the she was given probation and violated

the probation twice by continuing having the affair with the child.

[MysteryToMyself]

218. There needs to be more clarification

After puberty is different than a child that hasn't matured. A pedophile is one that likes children.

A woman having sex with a teenager 5'10 with a deep voice is immoral, but not pedophillia. Teenagers are taints. Taint children and taint adults.

There is a difference between a female and and a male. The hymen is important to some men (or it used to be) thus the fathers would beat up the older guy that "took" his 15 year old. That, plus she can get pregnant, may be why the laws are stricter for males. Plus, it is almost impossible to have sex with a male unless they want to because they have to be wanting sex to have it. I only recently learned that some men get 25 years for having sex with teenagers. It may be that instead of sentencing women to jail for 25 years, they need to lower sentences.

It is wrong for teachers to have sex with students, because of favoritism, but even at that it isn't worth 25 years. Teenagers are brighter and more informed. If they don't have sex education their friends inform them.

The women who have sex with with 12 year olds are so wrong, but she probably had mutual sex with a boy that age when she was that age and is hung up on that era, but even then she probably could stop with a little counceling. Not all women who have sex with big mature teenagers should go to prison. There have always been beautiful older femme fatale in every town who taught the young men about the birds and the bees. Famous Books are written about them.

Teenagers boys have a responsibilty to say no. They are usually the perpetraters of sex with older women. They know from sex education what they can do if they feel someone is exploiting them.

I have had older men hit on me but I said no. I had a teenager try to mess with me when I was eight, but I got away by kicking loose and running.

I think it is sad when a young child is molested in the home daily by a step parent. That is bad bad bad. Parents should not ever leave a child alone with a step parent. Better yet they shouldn't marry until their children are eighteen. I have read that pedophiles look for women with children to marry. Parents should question their children frequently too.

We don't want to be like republicans that hate sex and love war. I am not upholding perversion or pedophillia. We need to clarify what it is and be very careful.

It is traumatic when these teachers are arrested for the tarents (aren't children but aren't adults) because most don't feel abused. But those teachers should be fired from teaching just to keep the field clean and sex free. Taints & tarents need a sex free classroom because they are easily distracted by sex.

[melnjones]

220. Woah....no no no...

"Not all women who have sex with big mature teenagers should go to prison. There have always been beautiful older femme fatale in every town who taught the young men about the birds and the bees. Famous Books are written about them."

Unbelievable. Find for me a source that says that young men aren't harmed by adult women abusing them. Find for me a source that says it is easier for a young man to say no to an adult woman than it is for a young woman to say no to an adult man...and that the young man should have more responsibility to say no. How about the adult has the responsibility to not sexually exploit a kid?!?!

"I have had older men hit on me but I said no. I had a teenager try to mess with me when I was eight, but I got away by kicking loose and running."

I'm glad you got away, but what's your point? That kids who are abused didn't try hard enough to get away? Always the victim's fault...

"It is traumatic when these teachers are arrested for the tarents (aren't children but aren't adults) because most don't feel abused. But those teachers should be fired from teaching just to keep the field clean and sex free. Taints & tarents need a sex free classroom because they are easily distracted by sex."

Are you speaking from experience? From research? Or just giving anecdotal information? Find me a single expert who agrees with you.

[MysteryToMyself]

254. Life is what you focus on and you focus on child molestation

You have offended me. It is like you have a vendetta. You seem determined that the whole world are perverts. Especially the rural people. Unbelievable.

I don't believe in experts. I go by healthy common sense.

Teenagers are being tried in criminal courts as adults, but they aren't allowed to have sex with an older woman? BS.

What is the deal? I hear FoxNews call a 16 year old a child. That is ridiculous. It hasn't been that long ago that most married at 16.

When everyone makes normal sex out to be "perverted" then the young will not know the difference. :crazy:

In China the age of consent is 12, which I think is too young.

You remind me of the salem witch hunt. You women are wrecking lives. Laturno shouldn't have had sex with that boy at the age he was at first. She should have had counseling. Her life has been traumatized.

That last teacher that was arrested, it traumatized the teenage boy, not because of the sex, but because it was on the News and she was in trouble.

Adults can be traumetized, too. The laws of a land should reflect the will of the people not a bunch of do gooders who want to see every sex act as vile.

I bet you question children until they tell you something so you will shut up. Children shouldn't be harrassed at school by teachers who get their rocks from asking sexual questions of children.

Me thinks you protest too much.

[melnjones]

273. Wow...

"I bet you question children until they tell you something so you will shut up. Children shouldn't be harrassed at school by teachers who get their rocks from asking sexual questions of children."

Anyone working with children (or any person, for that matter) who has a bit of sense understands the importance of not leading them in your questioning. In fact, I have met kids who have made up stories to create drama in their families or get attention. In my work with kids, there are a few who have consistently made stuff up and there is clear proof that it was fabricated. There is nothing I hate more than having to ask a child questions regarding sexual abuse. It is uncomfortable for me and for them, but given my line of work it is sometimes necessary by LAW.


"You seem determined that the whole world are perverts. Especially the rural people. Unbelievable."

Tell me one place where I said that rural people are more perverted than urban people. I didn't say it because I don't believe it.


"That last teacher that was arrested, it traumatized the teenage boy, not because of the sex, but because it was on the News and she was in trouble."

Are you saying it's the rest of society's fault that the legal consequences of her actions caused trauma for the boy? How about she shouldn't have broken the law? Geez.


"You remind me of the salem witch hunt. You women are wrecking lives."

I find this accusation humorous, simply because of my journey to FORGIVE my own abusers and still treat them out of love. I love the people who abused me and would never, ever do anything to them out of spite, no matter how much damage they have caused (and in some ways continue to cause...close family member) in my life. I wouldn't advocate that other abuse survivors do that either. Holding people accountable for their actions is not wrecking lives...it's paving the way for reconciliation and forgiveness.


"Laturno shouldn't have had sex with that boy at the age he was at first. She should have had counseling. Her life has been traumatized."

The lady needs help, and lots of it. I don't doubt that she is in a good deal of turmoil, and I'm sad for her that she didn't get some sort of help before her issues came to this. However, she is still responsible for her actions and her actions have serious consequences. She's an adult, she was an adult when she chose to break the law and break COMMON SENSE, that you don't sleep with your freaking STUDENT, and she's adult enough to deal with the consequences of the mess she made.


"You have offended me."

How the hell did I do that? By stating that your post was ridiculous, to which many others agreed? If you say stupid things you're gonna hear about it. That's life.


"Adults can be traumetized, too."

Yes, adults can be traumatized...by the consequences of their own stupid actions. No one can save them from that but themselves.


"The laws of a land should reflect the will of the people not a bunch of do gooders who want to see every sex act as vile."

Ha ha ha ha, are you saying that a majority of people think the law should let teachers have sex with their students? Pretty sure that isn't the case, and therefore the laws of the land on this issue already DO reflect the will of the people.


One more thing...regarding your comment that "life is what you focus on, and you focus on child molestation." Would you say the same thing to a fire fighter? I mean, he or she must spend too much time focusing on something so negative as house fires. Or how about a police officer...they spend an awful lot of time focusing on crime. I'm a social worker. Figure it out.

You are a hoot.


...edited for spelling

[madmusic]

259. A study

"A meta-analytic examination of assumed properties of child sexual abuse (CSA) using college samples"

EDIT: http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Rind_et_al._%281998%29

Any, yes, a pedophile group tried to use the study to justify themselves. I do not accept their argument or justification or whatever it would be, but also do not think that should discount the whole study.

Another study found that it was not only CSA that was a factor in stability, but had more to do with the entire family atmosphere, which may have even made the child susceptible to abuse, within or without the home.

[melnjones]

269. I agree that we can't totally discount this study...

Here's the problem though. We cannot change the definition of abuse simply because it might be more harmful for some people than for other people. Here's a hypothetical situation...Dr. Greg gets drunk and comes to work anyway. While at work, he gives two women the wrong prescription medicine. Anna, who is quite healthy overall, gets a little stomach ache from the wrong medication. Joann, on the other hand, is quite ill already and the mix up in the medication lands her in the hospital for two weeks. Was the effect worse for one patient? Yes. However, the act was the same for both and cannot be ignored for either one, if for no other reason than it has great potential for harm, and if not corrected now, people in the future could be harmed as well.

You're right that there are many factors that help determine how a kid will react to abuse, and it's true that TYPICALLY abuse that has a more devastating effect involves violence, people close to the victim, is unwanted, and threatens to destroy some sort of stability in the kid's life. Regardless, if you have a teenage girl that seemingly consents to sexual activity with a teacher, we still don't know what is going on inside that kid. She may feel obligated because she was abused in the past and that's just what she thinks is normal. She may fear that her grades will drop if she doesn't please the teacher, and if her grades drop she will get a beating from dad. None of these problems are the kid's fault! If the action from the teacher (or whatever other adult) is wrong, it needs to be seen as wrong regardless of the consequences of the act. The ONLY exception I would even consider making is if you have like an 18 year old dating a 17 year old and they consentually have sex.

[beam me up scottie]

229. Your post is one of the most ignorant I've ever read on DU.

When it comes to this issue, it is easily the most ignorant.

"taints" and "tarents"???

Jesus fucking Christ, I thought I had seen everything on DU...

[melnjones]

244. you know, the more I read it,

the more I think there's no way in hell that this post is real. It's just too ridiculous.

[beam me up scottie]

245. Having come across the poster before,

not to mention people who actually think this way, I'm afraid it may be.

I just hope they don't have kids.

[LostinVA]

247. Par for the course for this poster, Meljones

Some interesting posts on some of the Jon-Benet threads, too...

[MysteryToMyself]

278. Ridiculous!

What did I say on the JonBenna thread? I felt like that was an interesting lighthearted thread where we all were trying to play detective.

What am I dealing with a sex patrol?

I hate ignorance, it is the root of 90% of the problems in the world.

He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is stupid, shun him...comes to mind.

[MysteryToMyself]

255. Like I said "Life is what you focus on.

Tarents Taints. Some call teenagers Tweens It was a way to lift the subject from gloom and doom and differentiate between male and female but it is confusing.

Personally, I find ignorance in someone that puts themselves in danger of hell fire by using the Lord's name in vain.

So you are all wise. What did you do take a class? :rofl:

I am not ignorant of the subject. People learn as they go through life. I feel like I know about it as much as you do. I just think people are focusing on the wrong people. They are traumatizing those who shouldn't be traumatized.

Why don't you put up a poll at the front about the ages? Ask what should be the age of consent. And if men should be sentenced for 25 years? Things like that. The answer may surprise you, who knows?

[LostinVA]

257. So, I'm going to hell if I say

"Goddamn" or "Jesus Christ"? Even though that is NOT what the OT means by taking God's name in vain?

Interesting response. Of course, I don't believe Hell exists, so I don't give a good goddamn. I mean, Jeebus Christ, people!

[melnjones]

275. Isn't it amazing?

If people actually STUDIED the Bible, they would understand these things...

I'm not one to use these words in the way you are talking about, but I agree 100% that that's NOT what the Bible was talking about. It's all about context, and too many people just don't want to take the time to study.

[MysteryToMyself]

279. So tell me what it means

not to use the lord's name in vain? Or God's name in vain?

[melnjones]

281. I like this interpretation...

http://www.achievebalance.com/spirit/cnc/third.htm

There are several possibilities to what this biblical text was referring to...however, I am fairly confident that it was NOT referring to one using God's name as a swear word. It is not understood to mean this in some of the other modern foreign languages that I have studied. I think the real meaning of this text goes a lot further than swearing.

[dsc]

230. You can't be serious

but sadly you probably are. I have just one thing to say. Imagine you were speaking of male teachers and male students. Would your reaction still be the same?

[MysteryToMyself]

274. It would bother me more

because I know life is harder for those who are gay and a teenager shouldn't be exposed to sexual relationships until he has found out for sure he is gay.

Teachers should be fired for having sex with students, because there is a chance of a teacher telling a failing child he can do "something" for a better grade. That would rarely happen I would think.

My point was 25 years for consenting sex is too harsh and ignorant in most cases.

That is what we have judges for to decide the nuances of each case. It should be decided by the circumstances of each case.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

280. But different gender is okay?

Because oh yeah, hetero is default. And men exploiting women/girls is normal, as is young boys going through "initiation" at the hands of an older femme fatale.

But what if it's a gay student molested by a teacher of the opposite sex? What then, genius?

:eyes:

[leanin_green]

234. I was nine when it happened to me as a little boy. . .

I'm pretty sure I didn't want sex(since I didn't have a clue what it was)and my body betrayed my mind. So, if you believe that about males, you'd better look deeper. Whether or not you know this or not, the male penis responds to stimulation. It was created to function this way. I can tell you I didn't have sexual thoughts when mine was stimulated. As a matter of fact, I was terrified and didn't know what to do, but my penis seemed to.

I'm not offended by what you say. Actually, I was a little bemused as to how ignorant your statment is. I guess that's why I try not to post an opinion that is uninformed. If I do, I hope that someone will correct me with some better reasoning and possible supportable facts, so that I can become more informed. So, in this case, I'm giving you some personal experience as fact so that you can adjust your perception somewhat. I hope your open to it.

[MysteryToMyself]

270. That is Apples and Oranges

you are talking about a male child being aroused by sexual touching. The same thing probably goes for a female child unless they are too upset. The body automatically responds to pain or sexual stroking. Depending on the situation, if there is no pain, children respond to some of their molestation and that adds guilt to the mix, when they really aren't in control of the situation.

I was talking about teenagers and teacher sex. My point is that caring people are blurring the lines too much. A teenage male has to be sexually aroused to have sex, where a female teenager doesn't.

Teenagers are going through hormonial changes and sex is said to be on their minds a lot. I have heard that if an 16 year old would put a penny in a jar for each time he had sex there would be a lot of pennies in the jar. Then if he would start emptying the jar at 30, taking a penny for each time he had sex, it would not be emptied the next 50 years.

I have read that a woman is at her sexual prime at 30, where a young man is at his prime at 16. I still say it is immoral but not criminal for an older woman to have sex with a 16 year old. It should depend on the circumstances. I think it would be hard to rape a teenage male because they are stronger and they would/could report it.

We will probably hear less about teenagers having sex with older women now that the Media has destroyed several women. This is taking away from the focus on the real sexual predators.

[leanin_green]

276. After reading your post again, I missed the context in which. . .

you were referring. I stand corrected and can understand the point you are trying to make.

[Quantess]

251. That's sick, dude. n/t

[Recursion]

124. Really?

My experience as a boy assaulted by an adult woman was that I was considered a "lucky bastard". Somebody even said "a woman can't molest a 12-year-old boy" to me. As in, obviously I must have enjoyed it, right?

I can't imagine what it's like growing up female, particularly a female abuse victim; and I'm not trying to "out-victim" anybody. But, I can tell you that being a male sexual abuse victim -- especially of a female predator -- makes you feel about as invisible as a crime victim can be.

Now, don't get me wrong; I understand fully that it's the girls who need the support network, etc., because they're the ones by and large being preyed upon. But there are plenty of male sexual abuse victims, and plenty of legal and social cracks for us to fall into.

[melnjones]

132. I think that when the abuser is female,

it just makes the whole situation more difficult in how the public views it. Society doesn't think that women can be sexually abusive. You know as well as I do that that's not the case.

[Recursion]

185. Wow, that's a good point

There is this societal expectation that I keep running up against: men want sex and women don't.

[melnjones]

190. Yup...

It's always more taboo if the perpetrator is female...and even worse if the survivor is female as well, unfortunately. Well, they're each worse in their own way. With a male survivor, they're supposed to act like they liked it. With a female survivor, no one believes them anyway or assumes they are gay. It all sucks. One of the issues I try to bring awareness to is that of mother-daughter sexual abuse. Talk about taboo...that's it.

[Jamastiene]

205. Odd you should bring that up.

Think about these scenarios and see if you see it.

Adult woman molests male child. Public doesn't seem to care.
Adult male molests female child. Public doesn't seem to care.

Adult male molests male child. Public goes bonkers/apeshit with rage.
Adult female molests female child. Public goes bonkers/apeshit with rage.

IHMO, pedophilia that is viewed as straight pedophilia by the pubic gets overlooked and those victims are forgotten, while any pedophilia that is viewed as homosexual by the public causes outrage and the victims, by and large are still forgotten. Either way the victims are mostly forgotten and neglected by the public, but in the cases where victim and pedophile are the same sex, the public gets upset enough about it to actually be outraged.

Has this been the way the public where you live reacts? Or is that just the way it is where I live?

[melnjones]

222. You are missing something really important here...

Female-female sexual abuse is under-reported and under-recognized because it is easy to hide in hygiene practices by caregivers, etc. Because "mom" takes care of a kid's hygiene needs anyway, kids are less likely to see it as abuse when real molestation happens. You know how they always say no one should touch your private parts except your mommy and your doctor? That's exactly what I'm talking about. It must mean mommy and doctor would never ever abuse you, which isn't the case. It's a taboo topic that is ignored like crazy. If you are talking about the female teacher that tries to french her female student, yeah, the public is gonna go nuts over that. But if you are talking about the much more common female caregiver inappropriateness, that is almost completely ignored. Otherwise I agree with you, but female caregiver/female child abuse is under-researched and just quite taboo.

[Jamastiene]

201. Maybe I should have been clearer.

When a man molests a little girl, not many people care. It's just life as usual.

When a man molests a little boy, ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. People get about 100 times more furious in this case than in any other case.

Yes, of course, women can molest young boys. It is not as common and to be honest, I wasn't referring to that scenario at all in my other reply. NO CHILD should have to be abused and then have salt rubbed in the wound by vicious comments such as your case. I'm sorry you had to go through that as is, but to have salt rubbed into the wound like that is way worse.

And IMHO, and worthwhile sexual abuse recovery clinic should also include help/therapy/recovery/healing for boys who were molested just as well as girls.

[MysteryToMyself]

272. I am sorry that happened to you

Twelve is way too young for sex..

I was talking about consenting relationships. Now if a teenage male goes out of his way to meet an older woman and have sex and wants to, that is different than if a twelve year old is pressured into it by a female. Was she oversexed or what? Was she a relative?

[melnjones]

131. And...

Girls who are sexually abused by women are even more overlooked. Underreported as well.

[Jamastiene]

206. Yes.

As a matter of fact, I do not think I have ever heard of a case like that, but I am sure they happen. Read my other reply to that as well. NO CHILD should be neglected when they have been molested. They need TLC and support.

[melnjones]

241. for more info...

http://mdsa-online.org/ is a wonderful website with good info. Yeah, very few people have heard of specific cases of mother-daughter or female-female sexual abuse, but they are more common than one would think unfortunately. Thanks for responding openly to my reply...I've made statements like that before on DU and people have told me flat out that IF that kind of thing ever even happens, it's so rare that it's not worth mentioning. I know three girls other than myself who are survivors of this type of abuse, so it's a little personal and quite frustrating when people deny that it can even exist!

[OnionPatch]

120. I voted no as well but

I did have several incidents where my dad's friends came on to me and said really gross things to me when I was only around 12 or 13. Thank God, none of my mom's boyfriends came on to me. She would have kicked their asses out (of her life, none of them lived with us) so fast their heads would still be spinning.

[EFerrari]

126. My mom didn't even notice or she would have blasted them

to kingdom come AFTER she ate their entrails.

lol

But, what's up with this thing about little girls' having their boundaries violated and no one seems to see it? It's creepy.

[Touchdown]

11. Every day Rep Marilyn Musgrave (R-Co) tries to ban gay marriage.

Or any other Republican talks about sex with animals.:puke:

[Quantess]

13. Great. What does your post have to do with child abuse? n/t

[Bassic]

35. He's pointing out the fact that those people are more obsessed

with depriving gays of their human rights than doing anything to fight child abuse/sex abuse.

[Touchdown]

163. Well, I'd say living in a country where people like her are in charge

of our lives is pretty abusive. I may not have been molested in the literal sense, but I can see some parallels with Government policy (especially when it concerns parental notification, which this congresswoman is is pushing). So sorry to interrupt your pity party.:eyes:

[Quantess]

12. Horrible.

In an abuser's twisted mind, *he may reason "do unto others what was done to you in childhood". It's proven and documented that prisoners, especially sex offenders, were abused, often sexually abused, as children. As children, they learn that adults abuse them sexually, so when they grow into adulthood, how do you suppose they think they should act? They had role models. Bad ones.

*he was used, because the majority of sex offenders are male.

[Lilith Velkor]

39. Nothing to do with being pedophiles themselves, right?

:eyes:

[Recursion]

125. *shrug* depends

There's two separate epidemiologies, as far as I've seen.

On the one hand, there are pedophiles who go after clearly prepubescant children, and in general do not show a preference regarding their victims' gender (with several exceptions).

On the other hand, there are pedophiles who go after barely-pubescant children. They *do* show a preference in selecting their victims (after all, at that point there is a much greater difference between boys' and girls' bodies), and to a lot of them it seems to be very important to believe that their victims are consenting and enjoying the "relationship".

I'll leave my own hell out of this except to say that abuse in early puberty can have the effect of "freezing" your emotional development. You stay 12 or 14 or whatever until you can start to come to terms with what happened to you. In this armchair criminal psychologist's opinion, this is the type of abuse that "hands itself down" from one generation to the next. A 30 year old who is still in many ways emotionally a 13 year old tries to have the kind of relationship he should have been having when he was 13, only he ends up destroying someone else's life in the process.

[Quantess]

194. Sorry. I'm not understanding your point.

My point was that pedophiles are made, not born. Your point is....?

[newspeak]

224. well, logically one can say that not "all" who are sexually abused

become abusers--many do not!!!!! You may become a pedophile if there is a family history-you may be male and notice daddy is molesting your sister--a perception of females within the family dynamic or you may violently oppose it because you have experienced it and know that it is wrong!!!! I do not know about those who have these past childhood regression type of experiences. Most of my acquaintances remember exactly what happened, except one who had gone to a psychiatrist and experienced the childhood regression. In her case, her family, including her sisters, all denied it.

[Quantess]

250. Yes, I do agree with you.

of course, not "all" who are sexually abused become abusers. Of course, I didn't say that. Of course not. Sorry if I made you upset. I didn't mean to sound that way. Please accept my apology.

But then, you seem to agree with me that pedophiles were probably molested, themselves. A person who was not molested as a child is not likely to be a child abuser. I'm just saying that child abuse is wrong!

Most people who were molested / sexually abused were hurt, and they healed themselves, but, they did not sexually abuse anyone when they beame adults. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Child abuse is wrong!

Edited for punctuation.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. Yeah, verbally by a psychatrist when I was 16.

Hopefully, he's lost his license by now.

[Joe Bacon]

18. I know the feeling

I was scarred by my 8th grade algebra teacher. Never stopped humiliating and insulting me even after I barely got out of his hellhole classroom alive. Happiest day of my life was when he had a heart attack and dropped dead.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. This guy insisted that I describe my fantasies to him

so he could determine if I was actually gay. I just flat out refused to talk to him, so then he would suggest fantasies to me. My mom took him to me to "fix" me. My dad stopped it after a month or so because he knew you couldn't "fix" being gay.

[Joe Bacon]

176. Mine was worse

The teacher tried repeatedly to force himself on me. I refused to respond so he flunked me. Left me with a lifetime hatred of public schools and teacher unions. especially since he was the Union President.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

188. That's seriously fucked up.

[Joe Bacon]

213. I wish I had a voucher in 1968

Would have used it to go elsewhere. He left me with a complete hatred of the public school system. I take it out at the ballot box, voting NO on any school bond issue and YES on voucher proposals.

[MysteryToMyself]

258. A Private School would be Worse

There is more oversight in Public Schools.

[Joe Bacon]

263. Where was the oversight when it came to me?

Isn't any.

A Voucher would impose market discipline on schools to prevent teachers from acting improperly.

[MysteryToMyself]

266. I think you are pushing private schools and union hate

Private schools are more apt to cover it up because of the profit motive. The wouldn't want it known and would cover it up.

[Joe Bacon]

271. No I am not

I still struggle daily with the scarring done over 40 years ago by a jerk.

[melnjones]

282. I am overall a supporter of teachers' unions,

as I was once a member of one and I know first hand how valuable they can be, but I think he's right on one point...in towns with a really strong union, it can be next to impossible to fire a teacher that honestly merits it.

[Bassic]

36. Psychiatrists can be fucking wierd people.

My wife has a cousin who is a psychologist in a mental hospital and she is always complaining that the psychiatrists dont listen to her advice because "they know better". Even though they see the patient all of 10 minutes per month, while she sees each of them 2 or 3 hours a week.

[nedbal]

171. ALL the High School-er's I know that became shrinks were weird ,,

fucking weird before they studied Psychiatrist psychologist to TRY to solve their own problem

[Poll_Blind]

17. I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to answer this poll. n/t

PB

[Quantess]

24. Delete. Posted to wrong place. See #25

[Viva_La_Revolution]

20. By a friends step-father...

well, he tried...

Her and her sisters suffered hell. :cry:

Older boys in the neighborhood tried too, luckily I caught on, and they failed.

It's rampant, and it's WRONG.

[Stardust]

22. Seems like every stepdaughter I ever knew was sexually abused by her

stepfather. And I've known some daughters who were abused by their biologicals fathers, too. I don't mean to paint fathers with a broad brush, but there were lots of rotten ones out there.

[Dora]

256. Here's one who wasn't.

Just FYI. I was closer to my stepdad than I am with my biodad. I was devastated when my stepdad died unexpectedly a few years ago; he was more of a parent to me than my father has ever been. I think my father was surprised by the depth of my grief, and has since been more open and communicative with me.

It's not about the "step" status. It's about character and criminality.

[melnjones]

21. kick. nt

[bigwillq]

23. Those are some sad poll numbers.

I am very sorry for all of those who were abused. I hope you were able to get the necessary treatment to be able to heal your wounds.

It's so sad. I think this is an issue that needs to be talked about more. Brought to public attention more. I know it might be hard for those abused to want to talk about it and put it out there for the whole world to see without feeling embarrassed but I feel it's an issue that needs to be dealt with.

[Quantess]

25. a woman who was never abused:

I have never been sexually assaulted or sexually abused. I am so thankful for being lucky.

But, as a cute teen, I got sexually harrassed all the time. You would not believe the **** strange men said to me when I was a vulnerable teen, just walking down the street, minding my own business.
Teenage women/girls often appear to men as though they are magically 25 years old! I know this because of experience. Some horny men see a cute girl and wishfully imagine her to be older.

Some of the older men were just gawking, and we all knew it. I actually didn't mind the looks too much. That's because I got far worse treatment from scumbags of all ages.

As a cute teeenage girl, I got rude comments and gross noises while I was just walking down the street, minding my own business. The teenage boys knew better than to be an asswipe like those disgusting pervs, pretty much. At least the old men were polite, and just looked. These days, they all have more respect, not because I'm less attractive, but because I'm just older.

I'm 35 now, so the flirtations I receive at my age are FAR more respectful. Even if they aren't respectful to me, I have the resources to keep my balance, or maintain my grace, (etc.,whatever). I'm somehow less easy to harrass, now.

If I could go back in time, I would have a smart reply to disarm every perv who made me feel uncomfortable as a teen. But even that would be a lot of work, given the sheer number of a-holes ready to harrass me, as a pretty teenager.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

64. Same age, similar experiences.

Never sexually abused, but lots of harassment when I was young. I was very cute and rather endowed, so lots and lots of it from boys my age at the time and grown men who really had no business doing so.

However, when you rightfully tell them off, as I often did, then you get to be a "bitch" too. :eyes:

[Divameow77]

129. I know what you are saying

It's hard to ignore but that's pretty much what I did growing up.
Girls are supposed to be nice and not say anything and boys will be boys :shrug:

[Quantess]

193. Parents of pretty teenage girls, take note.

If you have a cute teenage daughter, and you have a hang-around-buddy who may possibly have a thread-o-scumbag in his disposition, please be aware that when you turn your back, your "buddy" might be sexually harrassing your daughter.

Your daughter probably won't tell you about it, unless it was really bad.

[Hissyspit]

26. No, but came close. This guy tried to lure me under a bridge

when I was about 7 years old. I started to go, but figured out something was not right and ran away.

[BlooInBloo]

27. I've been under the impression for awhile...

that 1/3 - 1/2 of girls have been sexually abused. I forget where/when I settled on that interval.. Probably just from the girls I've talked to... (yah, not the greatest sampling technique in the world).

[cool user name]

29. The world's most ridiculous poll

And before I'm lambasted.

I'm sorry. What kind of poll is this? Those that are afflicted know it's a private matter.

For those of us else, who am I to even designate a private matter.


I don't know why I'm so angry at this post but it's stupid.

[Deja Q]

32. If it gets people to respond, it must be good...

Though I've seen better stuff not get replied to at all...

[cool user name]

48. I was a bit faschnikered ...

and should have probably not responded at all.

My thoughts jumped out at the keyboard. ;)

[zanne]

44. I think it's very helpful.

I wouldn't give any specifics about the times I was sexually abused as a girl, but I think it's helpful to other women to let them know they're not alone in this. Yes, it is a private matter, and it's an anonymous poll. Even if it weren't, we're only giving our usernames, so it's still "private".

[Bluerthanblue]

53. a quote by Audre

Lourde struck me where I live a long time ago-

"Your silence will not protect you"-

Took a long time to find a 'voice'- but for all those who are taught that silence is the best way of 'living' with something so twisted and life-altering, I will be silent no longer- and, had I not been silent, I might have saved another from having to live through hell.....-

Denial, secrecy, and shame are the fertilizer of bad things-

[Bluerthanblue]

52. no lambasting- but silence, secrecy, denial and shame

ensures the continuation of something that should not be allowed to continue.

Bringing the ugly, un-faceable, un-speakable, destructive, 'private secrets' into the light, is a painful, but necessiary part of destroying, and exposing this hellish reality.

It's ok that your angry- better that than apathetic- sit in your anger a bit, and try and find its source- you may find that you have power to help change what you find enraging.

peace-
blu

[justice1]

59. Great Responses on 52 and 53.

If you are a victim of any other type of crime, society is empathetic, and you are encouraged to talk about it. If you are a victim of a sex crime society leaves you feeling ashamed, and it often eats away at you like a cancer. It's why predators have multiple victims, people remain silent.

[LostinVA]

63. And, it's a crime where teh victim is often blamed

And everything personal about them is often ripped apart, examined, and questioned, and disbelieved or judged.

[Finder]

65. I agree 100%...

and most abusers count on the victim(s)keeping silent out of a sense of shame.

[LostinVA]

70. And, many (or most) of them do...

[melnjones]

134. thank you. nt

[blonndee]

60. Excuse me, but one doesn't have to respond in order to vote.

And if you don't WANT to respond, you certainly don't have to. :eyes:

[Pacifist Patriot]

93. Sexual abuse is a social problem.

Yes it is an intensely private matter to those who have been abused, but the prevelance of sexual abuse means a cultural and social solution is called for. This poll doesn't exactly require anyone identify who they are, does it? So the assumption of invasion of privacy is a bit over the top. I see some people who are surprised by the numbers. This is still largely a hidden problem. Polls like these open some eyes.

We will not be safe until sexual abuse is rendered as distasteful as cannibalism.

[helderheid]

114. It's a private matter. That's actually the attitude that feeds the problem

It's "private" ... and shameful... and why so many are afraid to come forward. I consider this to be one of the worst problems in our world and I feel the more it is talked about the less shameful a subject and more of a chance to change the statistics.

Just my opinion.

[Kerrytravelers]

123. One can vote without leaving a mesage. No one knows who voted.

[me b zola]

186. I don't know why you are so angry either

I voted and my vote is private. I chose not to write about my vote, so it continues to be a private matter.

IMO, I think it is a good thing for us to see the results of the poll, and for those who want to engage in the conversation, it too is a good thing.


I will wish you what another wonderful DUer signs off with: Peace and low stress.

[OneBlueSky]

30. depends on how you define "abused" . . .

yes, I had experiences with someone older when I was still under the "age of consent" . . . however, it was MY idea, and I was fully consenting and had no reservations about the relationship . . .

in my eyes, that's certainly not abuse . . . although the law would disagree . . .

[Deja Q]

31. Assaulted by one, molested by two others, a very nasty prank by another.

And, no, I don't count taunts as forms of abuse.

Regardless, I qualify.

[im10ashus]

38. Yes.

Molested on the altar of the church by the choir director.

[marions ghost]

40. Do doctors with wandering hands

and the urge to check out responses qualify? They're all over the place.

Family member or a female nurse should always be in the examining room when girls are seen by a male doctor. Always. No matter how trusted the doctor is. I think this is the norm now.

This is one of the typical areas where girls learn that you cannot trust men. But if girls don't have these experiences while young, will they be even more vulnerable to predators like date rapists as they're growing up?

[gorbal]

41. Peoples are always saying how dangerous cities are....

But small towns can be even more dangerous because nobody will protect you from your own family.

[wicket]

56. Soooooo true

Happened to me :(

[raccoon]

61. And date rape, I suspect, is as common in small towns as cities. nt

[bleedingheart]

62. out in the middle of nowhere on farms...a lot of unspeakable stuff

has happened...in the very "heartland" of this country...

My great aunt was molested and impregnated by her own uncle at the age of 13...all of it happened on a dairy farm in the middle of no where...and the family let him take her away and marry her...it was sick.

[Critters2]

78. I've been in ministry for 20 years

all but two years in rural settings. I've never once dealt with such a situation. Maybe it's just your family that has a problem--nothing to do with where they live.

[bleedingheart]

81. My family didn't go consulting a priest...they were too ashamed

and afraid.

Sex abuse happens everywhere...it is not limited to any one area...but a lot of people assume only the "perverts" in the big cities have problems...

It is everywhere.

[Critters2]

82. I don't doubt that it happens

but your implication is that it's worse in rural areas--that we're all out here having sex with blood relatives. I served for two years in Chicago. For a lot of reasons, I left there and never looked back. I've been serving rural folks ever since, and I don't find them particularly unbalanced, in spite of your inferences.

[melnjones]

139. I don't think it's worse...but I would dare say it's less

frequently reported in rural areas. And it's definitely not less common in rural areas. My experience is the same.

[Critters2]

147. Yep, we're all marrying our cousins out here

You caught us.

[melnjones]

151. Not even close to what I said.

AS common, not more common. Defensive much?

[Critters2]

154. Again, I don't see why it's an urban/rural issue

but any chance to take a swipe at us hicks...

[gorbal]

161. We ARE the hicks

This isn't city against small town. I'm from a small town.

[melnjones]

162. lol...for real.

Someone's got a chip on their shoulder. Oh well, I make good use of the ignore button.

It has nothing to do with being "hick" or "country." It's about dysfunctional system problems in community, which are easier to maintain in small towns because of the social patterns. I love the city because the problems smack you in the face. You know they are there. In my hometown they are hidden and attack you from behind.

[devilgrrl]

168. Nobody has come to you with any stories, therefore it never happens!

Yeah whatever :eyes:

[Critters2]

215. Not what I said

I just don't believe it's worse in a small town. And believe me, if it happened with any frequency, I'd know.

But no, it's like Deliverance out here, and we wish we could be as enlightened as you in the city, where nothing unpleasant ever happens.

[Lars39]

216. I'll tell you why it can be worse in a small town...

because patriarchy is the norm and small town cops can be related to the offenders and will just not do a thing. And most of the time the offender AND the victim knows this. I've seen some sick shit pushed under the rug because of the unwritten law that *nothing* must interfere with a man's life.

[Critters2]

217. The small towns where I lived where closer to being

matriarchies than patriarchies. Women in small towns have much more power than in cities, where the world runs on a business/power kind of model. All the leaders in the towns where I've lived have been women. That's one of the things I truly love about small towns. Whoever can do a job is welcome to, regardless of gender, etc. Because, well, it's gotta get done. For example, I served in a town of 3600 people, where 5 of the 9 churches had women pastors. I've moved to a city of 18,000 not far from a large city; and I'm the only ordained woman in town. The power structure is much more traditional and male-dominated. And I hate it.

[melnjones]

283. Ordained? very cool...

What affiliation? I will soon be working toward my ordination.

[MysteryToMyself]

219. Clinton could have blamed any male in AR for the Monica dna

If that were true that we all have sex with our relatives in AR we would all have the same DNA. Who knew? We could have saved Bill embarrassment.

[fishwax]

210. are you intentionally misreading her posts?

nobody is bashing the rural quite so much as you are.

[Critters2]

68. Even this becomes an urban/rural debate

And of course, urban wins.

Yeah, out on the farm we're just doing all kinds of lewd and lascivious things you city folk could never imagine!!



:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

169. I'm sure the things you described do happen at SOME farms.

:-|

[Jeroen]

42. Unbelievable, I am speechless

My mothers life was in ruins because of abuse in her early childhood.
(At home and later on by psychiatrists in a mental institute for children)

She recovered but still suffers from what happened then.
She told me often that she feels her childhood was taken from her.
It has also effected me and my brother. She was severely depressed when we where young.

[bryant69]

45. Seems like our definition of Sexual Abuse might not

be consistent across the board. At any rate I find these kinds of number suspect.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[LostinVA]

58. I find them very accurate

With my and other women's experience. Sexual assault/abuse doesn't have to mean rape, or child molestation.

[melnjones]

140. Seems about right to me...nt

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newspeak]

223. I don't know if there is some kind of magnetic pull

to each other who have been abused--but I have many female friends who were sexually abused as children. I'm talking about being abused between the ages of four to twelve-the perpetrators have been step-fathers, natural fathers, uncles, and mom's boyfriends. The emotional scars are devastating--it's like your childhood has been destroyed-that innocence has been destroyed. The threats, the shame and the anger against those you trusted to protect you are hard to deal with, even when you become an adult. I have a friend who is a physchologist and had to testify in a courthearing-a father molesting his daughter-the little girl was six years old-in the courtroom the mother of the daughter and the father's mother were there angrily spouting that the little girl was a liar--that he wouldn't do such a thing. How can a child trust, how can a child not feel shame, when they are made to feel they are to blame by those who are supposed to be protecting them!!!! I remember being told "it's your fault why I'm doing this." And, these sick pedophile groups-"we just want to love each other", "we're just expressing our love", "the children have rights too and they want this." It's all bullshit!!!!!!! It is physically and pyschologically harmful---it is torture, pain and shame!!!!!!! And, it is prevalent in our society-but I believe it is much more about one having power over those who are powerless--the need for an ego feed of the perpetrator-that they can at least have power over something or someone-they play out their fantasies because of their own insecurities and powerlessness. And some are just plain sociopaths, they have no feelings for others, only their own self-gratification. For mothers and fathers who knowingly allow the perpetrator to continue such assault, they are as guilty and should be locked away along with the perpetrator!!!!

[MysteryToMyself]

268. There are "Little Red Ridinghood" Mothers

If you think about it, what kind of mother would send their daughter through the woods where animals roam to grandmother's house.

There are mothers that put their children in positions to be molested and don't even realize they are part of the problem.

I read that years ago when I was an avid reader, now I am a computer junkie.

I would never leave a child with a relative that had done anything sexual to me....but it seems many do.

I have read that people recreate their own childhood in their family. That many who have been molested by step fathers, end up having a molesting step father for their children. That is something to think about.

I worry about these young babies and children dropped off at day care. Sex abuse could get worse instead of better since so many do that. The childcare may be wonderful, but they would bear close watching.

[melnjones]

277. Disagree on a point here...

"I worry about these young babies and children dropped off at day care. Sex abuse could get worse instead of better since so many do that. The childcare may be wonderful, but they would bear close watching."

Statistically a child is more likely to be abused in his or her home than in a daycare. Most abusers are family members.

[Scout]

47. not long term or by family members

three isolated incidents by separate individuals.

[InkAddict]

49. That depends...

Does passive agressive withholding of conjugal responsibilities constitute sexual abuse? or just sexual rejection as a means of psychological battering?

[LostinVA]

57. Are you comparing not getting some to sexual abuse/assualt?

Just trying to understand what you're saying.

[InkAddict]

195. Yes, indeed it's abuse

An I love you; go away attitude in the absense of impotency, homosexuality, or infantilism - I think this is a very abusive psychological control issue that robs the victim of self-esteem, confidence, and a sense of self/identity similiar to shunning. Available options include the breakup of the family; finding outside satisfaction that leads back to Option 1; life-long self-satisfaction, and the till death do you part hell of constant guilt that it's ones own fault of choice, appearance, hygiene...

[LostinVA]

248. I think that is abusive behavior, as I had that in one relationship

But I don't think it is anywhere near the same as being sexually abused. Sorry this has happened to you, as I'm sorry it happened to me -- but no way can I compare that to what the men and women on this thread went through.

[Quantess]

198. I 'm not understanding it either.

But I hope you yourself do.:hug:

[Bluerthanblue]

50. ....yes, not proud, but no longer ashamed

to 'own' my life- and live in my body-

may we all learn, heal, and work towards a world where this poll would be obsolete.

peace-

[bluedog]

51. you know small kids didn't know who

to tell .back in the '50's 60's............it was not well published back then about abuse of young girls........
some thought if they told "they" would get in trouble.or be sent away......(especially if a girl was living with other relatives) the relatives would take the mans side because maybe once the girl was caught in a lie...

abuse is not just sexual penatration............its a man feeling up the little girl.......asking her to give him kiss.......asking her to "sit on his lap".......many other little things that a little girl if not told wouldn't know if it was right or wrong.....

thank heavens....this abuse has come to the surface............too bad it didn't years ago..........many of the older generation could have used the help...

[LostinVA]

54. How about an "almost" category

A "friend" in college tried to acquaintance rape me one night in my dorm room. I was able to get away. However, I consider that being sexually abused.

[aikoaiko]

128. The "1 in 4" statistic regarding women and rape includes attempts

The well-done study by Mary Koss in the mid-1980's was the study that made the "1 in 4 women experience rape" stat so wellknown. The 1 in 4 included rapes and attempted rapes of college women. Other studies found slightly higher, some lower, but Koss's study was particularly comprehensive and well done. If you include less intrusive unwanted sexual activity, the incidence rate goes up.

I saw the "statistic" emerge among college women when I worked on my masters. For one study I needed baseline rate of unwanted sexual activity among the women in my college, so I gave a survey (Koss's) to an Introductory Psychology class (mostly frosh) and the rates of experiencing unwanted sexual activity were extremely low. I was puzzled, but my mentor said I should give the survey to an upper division class. Sure enough, 50% of the senior women reported some form of unwanted sexual activity and 20% had experienced rape or attempted rape (mostly by acquaintances).

College years are a dangerous time for women. Good luck out there.

[noonwitch]

66. Yes, a couple of times by family members but I am no victim

Both of the perps are dead, now. My uncle was somewhat retarded and I forgave him long before he died. The cousin who led him into it was a real mess-his dad badly abused him as a kid. They were both teenagers at the time.

The cousin who was the instigator committed suicide later in life. I was about 3 at the time, my brother was maybe 5 (he witnessed it).

I was very angry and also one of those people who always felt victimized for a long time. When my uncle got cancer, I realized I did not want him to die thinking I hated him, so I forgave him and visited him regularly in his final weeks. Even though my cousin is dead, I forgave him after I started to attend church again. He couldn't hurt me, and I was only hurting myself by being so angry with a dead man.

I do get angry with my mom, sometimes about it all. She didn't protect us very well from her own family. She would talk about it with relatives right in front of me when I was a kid, as if I wasn't there. She also always wants to get me to talk to her about it, and won't accept that it will never happen.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

67. I Find These Numbers A Bit Hard To Swallow.

It just doesn't seem accurate that 69% of DU female respondents and 45% of overall DU respondents have been raped. I know rape is far too prevalent in our society but there's no way I'm buyin those numbers.

To those that have truly suffered this horrendous crime, including those in some of the responses I read below, you have my deepest sympathies. :hug:

[Critters2]

69. I agree

I was working in mental health in the days when therapists attributed EVERYTHING to sexual abuse, especially among women. Many of us became skeptical. Women would be freaked out by the idea that they had been sexually abused, and they'd be in therapy longer than if they were simply being treated for depression, anxiety, whatever they presented with. One colleague referred to such therapists as "glorifed phone psychics" for the way they could keep clients coming back, week after week, for years. One shrink somehow managed to find "evidence of multiple personalities" in EVERY ONE of his female patients.

That trend seems to have died down, but I suspect there are a lot of people--especially women--with genetic brain disorders who believe they were sexually abused to boot.

I believe it happens and when it does it's horrible, but I don't think it's as common as some would have us believe.

[VelmaD]

71. You should talk to more women you know about it...

I'm having a hard time right now bringing to mind even one of my female friends who has not told me about some kind of sexual abuse or assualt or attempt at same during her lifetime. You'd be surprised what actually happens to the average woman.

And the numbers for men are pretty scary too. I know several of my guy friends who were assaulted or abused sexually as well.

People are fucked up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

75. I Know More Than Enough. With That Knowledge, I Still Find The

numbers here very hard to swallow. But I understand that you disagree.

[VelmaD]

79. I'm sure there is some self-selection bias...

as there is in any internet poll. Maybe liberal women are more likely to speak out about what happened to them because we know it wasn't our fault. Maybe, despite the fact that DU can be ridiculously misogynist at times, we still feel like this is a safer place to talk about it than the "real" world is. So while the number is higher than what is normally reported in big, random samples...maybe that's a good thing because it lets the men and women on DU who have been abused know they aren't alone. And it lets other folks on DU understand better that this significant minority exists on DU and treating issues of sexual assault with understanding and tact is a good thing.

Oh, and I'm very proud of the men on DU who have been sexually abused or assaulted and are willing to speak out about it. :hug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. Or, Maybe Some Respondents Aren't Being Fully Honest With

their selection or are exaggerating the definition of sexual abuse. You have to consider strongly that possibility as well. After all, it is like you said an internet poll.

As far as the ones who chose honestly and falling within the true definition, I am proud of them as well and like I said, my heart goes out to them. Sexual abuse is a horrible thing.

[marions ghost]

83. definitions may vary

especially between the sexes...but every woman knows instinctively whether she has been sexually ABUSED or not. It's a very clear line. It is where there is a loss of trust.

Most women have had countless experiences where some man does something improper--like a drunk in a bar getting touchy-feely. But you never trusted a drunk in a bar in the first place. Or some leering teenage
boy tries to plant some icky unwanted kiss out of the blue. But you never trusted him in the first place. So this does not constitute abuse. It's just part of living with men who don't respect boundaries--you learn to watch out for the incoming and be ready to launch a deterrent.

I think the true numbers would actually be a bit higher than this poll shows. Usually it is under-reported and confusion about definitions favors abusers.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

85. Actually The Definitions Are Fairly Clear, As I Posted Below.

And there is no doubt that sexual abuse is a serious issue that is still too prevalent. But though many of the votes above are legitimate ones, there is practically no doubt in my mind that many of them aren't.

[Lars39]

87. So women are incapable of honestly reporting abuse in an informal poll?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

89. I Hope You Don't Strike Any Matches Near Your Strawmen.

Try again bub.

[Lars39]

90. Just recapping what you said, hon.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. No You Weren't. You Were Offering A Ludicrous Strawman Designed To Smear.

It's a shame that you have to resort to such tactics but unfortunately many here do. A true recap of my statement, as opposed to your smearingly false misrepresentation of it, would merely be "many people who voted in the poll were being genuine, but based on the seemingly high number of positive affirmations appears that many who voted were not (being genuine).

Recapping it in the way you had is just a blatantly ignorant and provocative strawman with a readily apparent purpose.

So again, try again bub.

[Lars39]

100. What I find amusing is that you think *your* tactics aren't noticeable.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

105. I Just Answer Honestly And Sincerely, And Then Back It Up With Reasoning.

If you don't like it that's really a damn shame. But at least I'm honest and explain my positions sincerely. There are no tactics being employed at all other than being open and honest. So really, get a grip.

[Bluerthanblue]

99. OMC.....what....?

makes it so ....difficult?.... impossible?... for you to accept the 'numbers' at face value? Do you look at all 'self-reported' polls with the same dis-belief? or is it that to attempt to believe so many people have had their bodies violated by others against their will, or well before their years, leaves you greatly disturbed by human'kind's in-humanity to those less powerful, and vunerable?

I'm honestly interested in your response. My own experiences weren't 'recovered' nor were they without evidence- (physical trauma covered up by 'well-meaning' adults)-
However, I know many people who have pushed their past away with drugs, alcohol, and other 'numbing' substances and life choices- who didn't understand why living in the 'real- here and now' was so difficult- until they realized they were going to off themselves intentionally or by accident if they didn't get some major help.
I used many ways to numb myself- including seeking out relationships which were abusive....
and i've got a lot to keep working on, but I'm not hiding or pretending or enabling anymore- which is an enormous step for me....-
I'm not saying people never bend the truth, or answer falsely sometimes, but I believe that to be a very small minority- I'd give anything to be able to honestly answer "no, not me" to this poll- and I hate it that there are so many of us....

Is your skepticism of the results of this poll 'routine', (do you figure most people aren't honest, or misinterpret polls) or specific to this issue???

thanks-
blu

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. Well,

I think there is some skewing in all internet polls. But looking at this one I think the rate may be higher than normal. Like I said, I'm aware, angry and sympathetic that sexual abuse happens far more often than it ever should in a civilized society. But I still have a hard time believing that 2 out of every 3 women have suffered legitimate sexual abuse. I would find the number to be more towards 1 out of 4. 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 is just not believable in my opinion.

[Bluerthanblue]

111. I'm honestly

puzzled as to why any substantial number of people would identify themselves as being a victim of sexual abuse- if they weren't.
I used to deny and hide my past because i was mortally ashamed... and still do feel a degree of shame and guilt that refuses to go away. I intelectually understand that the reality of being helpless, and powerless is worse than feeling ashamed, bad, dirty and guilty, because the terror of being without any control is more than many people can bear- (five year olds DO believe they control their world)
And suicidal ideation is a very common and difficult concequence of CSA-

What do you believe would motivate people to skew this poll in such a way??? I can't see it myself, but perhaps I'm not seeing with clear eyes-

??

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

116. I'd Have To Say Good Intentions And Psychological Guilt.

Firstly, I very well could be wrong and the majority of responses were in fact legitimate. There's no way to know for certain and I'm not going to be bullheaded enough to declare it fact that it is skewed. I just find it likely that it has been.

As far as explanations as to motivation, I would think the reasons would fall into two categories.

The first would be out of good intention. Sexual abuse is a horrible thing that all of us take seriously and feel great sympathy towards the victims of. Due to that, several respondents may have voted in the affirmative with the intention of calling attention to the seriousness of this issue.

The second reason I think would be out of pyschological guilt. What I mean by that, is that when you are dealing with an issue as serious and heartfelt as this one, some people psychologically feel like they are undermining those who have been abused by voting in the negative. Almost like that vote would be saying "no, not me, I don't know what people are talking about with all this sexual abuse stuff". Because they most likely know somebody directly who have been abused, it is hard for them to vote against that notion. I may not be desribing that correctly, but hopefully you'll get the gist of what I'm trying to say there. In relation to the latter part of that example, some may also vote affirmative because they directly knew somebody. Almost like a voting on behalf of. I almost did that myself in honor of my sister who was sexually abused, but then decided against it.

[melnjones]

146. Oh that is the biggest load of crap I've read on here yet.

Amazing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

150. No, An Empty Response With No Substance Is.

Don't just post brainless one liners with only the intention of stirring up trouble please. If you are going to issue that strong of a statement how about offering ANYTHING of intellectual capacity to refute it? You say the sentiment was amazing in how crappy a one it was. Oh yeah? How so? What is so 'amazing' about it? Fact is, it is a damn good logical and reasonable assessment as to why some would. It doesn't mean that they did, or if they did that was why, but it is still a very reasonable explanation to the question of "if they did, why would they". Now if you disagree for real reasons, as opposed to the reason of merely being a trouble maker, then please rebut the points raised with more than an empty header.

Thanks. :hi:

[melnjones]

155. I apologize for the tone of my message...

Please realize though that possibly the most common reason people deny having been abused when in fact they were (or minimize the abuse) is the fear that people will say they are not telling the truth. For whatever reason. Does that happen sometimes? Sure, I'm sure it does. But to me the thought of people lying, even anonymously, just because they feel bad for others who really were abused, just makes no sense. This is a sensitive, and rather emotional topic, as you can see. :hi:

[fishwax]

211. so does that mean you believe more than half of the "yes" folk are lying?

You'd tend to believe 1/4 (25%), but not 65% (which is where it is now). That's a difference of 40 percentage points, meaning more people actually lied in the affirmative than told the truth in the affirmative. Do you think that's the case, or has the 1/4 that you initially would have expected/accepted been revised up at all? FWIW, I don't mean that as a snarky question at all, but I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that mroe people would go through with voting a false positive than would have cause to vote a legitimate yes.

Truth is, I don't really think the numbers were significantly skewed in the way you mention. I think--even on an anonymous internet poll--there aren't likely to be a huge number who will vote yes for the motivations you describe. That doesn't mean the poll is accurate, though--there don't have to be false positives in order for the poll to be skewed. It can simply be the fact that those who would vote no and aren't particularly interested in the issue aren't going to open the poll. DU polls are interesting, but I wouldn't ever consider any of them conclusive or assume them an accurate assessment of the world at large (or even of the DU community). My point is that one doesn't have to suggest that people who claim they were abused are lying in order to argue that the numbers may be skewed.

That said, though, I don't actually find the numbers hard to swallow--well, hard to swallow in the "hard to accept" sense, but not the "hard to believe" sense. I would have a much harder time believing a 1 in 4 result than a 3 in 5 result.

[melnjones]

144. Ok...then try this on for size...

I'm sure a good deal of those who voted yes in this poll were even sexually abused more than once, by more than one person. I'd dare say you need to do some more research and some more talking to survivors.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

152. That Makes No Difference. And As Far As Research Is Concerned, I've Done

plenty. But the issue remains that in my opinion an incidence rate of 2 out 3 women is extremely high and hard to swallow.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. In Addition,

I wanted to say my heart goes out to you for what you went through and I truly hope someday we have a society that has learned to erradicate this problem so that others don't have to go through what you had. Reading your response again I found it to be quite strong and of sound mind. You admit to having more to do but it sounds like you have made tremendous gains already and I'm proud of you for doing so.

Do you ever speak at women's shelters or abuse groups etc? There are many, like you said, who have not yet found the strength to overcome or make progress from the abuse done to them. Strong women like you are always an inspiration for others who may not yet found that they too can have the same strength.

[Bluerthanblue]

118. thank you

for your kind words and compassion- I'm learning to speak up... and to own my life...baby steps.
Encouraging others to speak even when their voices tremble, or when people don't want to hear the truth because it makes them uncomfortable, or angry is important- in so many places in life. I wonder if the response to this poll is so high on the survivors end, because a sight like this tends to draw people who are not going to sit quiet any longer, as one of the posts down below suggests-

I'd like to believe that was it- And that the voices raised on DU for so many important issues are the voices of the future of society-

peace,
blu

(i'm told i'm more stubborn than strong- that's ok- endurance is important too;-) :dem:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

122. For The Record,

Stubbornness is a sign of strength and also a common defense mechanism for people who have been abused (not just sexually) as it is a way of declaring " I refuse to be taken advantage of or controlled any longer". It is a sign that the victim has become aware of themselves and have taken certain steps to protect themselves from future occurrences. So it definitely is a show of strength and sign of progress, just through a certain outlet. Many victims do not have near the strength necessary to stand firm and rather than being stubborn are still suffering from a submissive mindset. So don't knock your being stubborn, as it shows you have the capability to hold your own and not let others dictate your feelings and opinions.

Good luck with everything BTB, and I have no doubt you'll continue to make great strides in dealing with the trauma thrust upon you by some piece of shit, and I hope you remind yourself often how proud of yourself you are and how capable and strong you are. :hug:

[Quantess]

197. right...so....you understand this isn't a scientific poll.

Victims or potential victims are more likely to be drawn to this thread.
That said, after all that, are you calling the poll participants liars?

BTW, I voted as a woman who had never been sexually assaulted. Because, lucky me, I haven't been.

[Fleshdancer]

76. You took the words right out of my mouth

I probably wouldn't believe the high numbers either if I hadn't talked to so many female friends about sexual abuse. No matter how horrific the stories were, none of them ever reported the abuse because they were either too young or they blamed themselves for what happened.

[noonwitch]

72. It depends on what one considers to be sexual abuse

Some people consider it to be abuse if a grown man makes inappropriate comments to them about their bodies. Some consider it abuse if an adult makes them view porn.

But even with qualifications like that, if you just count cases that involved physical contact of some level (fondling is just as much abuse as penetration), sexual abuse rates are much higher than anyone thinks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. Well, I Go By The Real Definition.

sexual abuse
n.

1. The forcing of unwanted sexual activity by one person on another, as by the use of threats or coercion.
2. Sexual activity that is deemed improper or harmful, as between an adult and a minor or with a person of diminished mental capacity.

Main Entry: sex·u·al abuse
Function: noun
1 a : the infliction of sexual contact upon a person by forcible compulsion b : the engaging in sexual contact with a person who is below a specified age or who is incapable of giving consent because of age or mental or physical incapacity
2 : the crime of engaging in or inflicting sexual abuse


sexual abuse

n : a statutory offense that provides that it is a crime to knowingly cause another person to engage in an unwanted sexual act by force or threat; "most states have replaced the common law definition of rape with statutes defining sexual assault"

[libnnc]

97. does unwanted fondiling count in your book?

It does in mine.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Of Course.

[LostinVA]

113. Mine too

[KitSileya]

127. Then I'll have to vote yes too.

I was held on the laps of three boys while they fondled me, and even tho' it was most unwanted, I couldn't get people nearby to understand it because, since I am extremely ticklish, I was laughing so much. To this day I freak out if people try to tickle me.

I do think the problem is a lot more prevalent than we think. There's a lot of hidden cases out there, especially of date rape, I think, simply because only a small fraction of women actually report rape, and an even smaller fraction of cases end in convictions.

[Pacifist Patriot]

98. "unwanted sexual activity"

"engaging in sexual contact" There you have it. Rape is a subset and not a synonym.

[melnjones]

149. many professionals would add to that definition...

http://ezinearticles.com/?Covert-(Subtle)-Sexual-Child-Abuse&id=172021

[jsamuel]

73. rape is a subset of sexual abuse

[slackmaster]

84. Very simple explanation

People who have been abused are more likely to click on the thread, and vote in the poll, than are people who have not.

:dunce:

The poll is not scientific. The subjects are selecting themselves. To get an accurate representation of the percentage of DUers who have been abused you'd have to poll a random sample.

[marions ghost]

88. don't agree

--women who have not been sexually abused all know someone close to them who has, or are worried about their daughters and nieces having it happen to them. Mothers constantly worry about it happening to their children, whether or not they were abused themselves.

Women are highly sensitive to the problem as they have had to constantly guard AGAINST it. So women who have not been abused would still respond to the poll.

I'd say this is pretty close to what I would expect from a random sampling on any given day at DU. Sure everybody knows that none of the polls at DU are scientific. But they do reflect DU I believe.

[Gormy Cuss]

102. The numbers are far out of line with what one would expect from

a study conducted with accepted methodology. As I began this there were 126 votes by women, with 76 indicating they had experience sexual abuse. That's 60% and much higher than any estimates derived from surveys conducted using statistical sampling and survey research methods. There is a bias in the responses -what bias, it's hard to say without knowing more about the respondents.

[marions ghost]

108. Du bias =

more aware and less inclined to accept abuse as normal. And admit it. (And Liberals don't lie as much as conservatives, right? ;) )

60% jives completely with what I have seen in academia anyway (over about 20 years)...actually 60% is a little less than what I would expect.

Yes it would be interesting to compare a DU survey on this with a random survey of the entire population. But even if you did this I don't think it makes the DU informal survey invalid. DU is not representative of the population in general so it would be expected to have a relative bias.

People just don't want to believe that sexual abuse of women is so prevalent.

[Quantess]

199. I hear what you are saying, but,

I think it's more of a matter of who is drawn to responding to this thread / poll.
People click on a certain thread because they are interested. The people who visit a thread called "Were You Sexually Abused" are likely to be people who were sexually abused, or, at least, have some sort of experience with the topic.

Not true, as you implied, that we're just bleeding heart liberals.

[marions ghost]

207. I jokingly implied

that being liberals makes a difference. Jokingly. Joke. Although it's POSSIBLE that liberals might be more comfortable with taboo topics than conservatives (an unsubstantiated theory). They DO seem to be less repressed, judging by the numbers of notable conservatives up on sex charges.

I understand what you are saying about selection bias. What I am saying is ALL WOMEN have "some sort of experience with the topic" of sexual abuse. ALL WOMEN are concerned about their children, friends, and themselves with regard to this because of the constant vigilance that must be maintained. This abuse affects the ENTIRE population of women. Ask around--you won't find a woman with half a brain who is not concerned with this issue. So I think this poll accurately reflects what WOMEN on DU think. And that's all it does. Obviously it's not the same as a random sample of the population.

Many men responded to this poll, although you might think that for men this topic would not be something they would respond to, so doesn't that say that (at DU anyway) many men ARE sensitized to this issue in some way, maybe not as victims, but as men who are sensitive to the problems of women, or men who are defensive about being associated with abusers. The number of non-abused MEN responding indicates that the "non-abused" have an interest in this topic.

Can you get this point that I'm making? I don't think this thread only attracts the (technically) sexually abused. Sexual abuse is a huge societal problem affecting everybody, entering into every facet of social and political life.

[Quantess]

252. Excellent point.

Can you get this point that I'm making? I don't think this thread only attracts the (technically) sexually abused. Sexual abuse is a huge societal problem affecting everybody, entering into every facet of social and political life.

I think that's an excellent point. I'm not sure how we reached this agreement so readily, maybe I'm confused and I shouldn't be arguing with you.? Oh, nevermind. I do agree with you and I don't have anything to argue about.

[marions ghost]

253. Thanks for reply

Interesting that the number of abused vs. 'non-abused' respondents is running close to 50-50 now.
Abused of both sexes = 45% (& 6% 'not sure')
Non-abused of both sexes = 50%

So this topic does interest the 'non-abused' very significantly. Still have to account for some selection bias I realize, but it may not be as much as other poll topics. Also you'd have to account for any sex-related thread always being a hot topic.

Oh no, no argument here, just discussing -- just wanted to make the point about sexual abuse being such a systemic problem. Thanks for underscoring that. A lot of people still don't get how this problem undermines their social interactions and their community. Maybe when we are willing to accept this as a massive failure of humanity, something can change. I sure don't have the answers about how to do that. I just know it would be a whole new world. Experience of, and fear of, sexual abuse is an incredibly negative social pressure. It damages us in myriad ways. Obviously the abused suffer, the non-abused suffer by association and fear, and the abusers are in need of help. All are wounded by this.

[TAPat]

91. Hey, FYI...

from American Heritage Dictionary - Sexual Abuse:
1. The forcing of unwanted sexual activity by one person on another, as by the use of threats or coercion.
2. Sexual activity that is deemed improper or harmful, as between an adult and a minor or with a person of diminished mental capacity.

We're not just talking "rape" - I get so sick and goddamned tired of "rape" being thrown out there as the only kind of sexual abuse there is! As in - Well, I didn't rape her so it's ok...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

92. Do You Mind Clarifying?

What are these huge differences? A large component of the definition of rape is the following: To force (another person) to submit to sex acts. In what ways is that so different from the definition above? The only connotational differences I personally think of when comparing rape and sexual abuse is that rape is far more commonly used in relation to intercourse itself whereas sexual abuse is more commonly used for other forms of sexual misconduct. Regardless, there are very few examples I can think of where the terms would be completely inaccurate when interchanged.

[TAPat]

106. Again from American Heritage -

rape: The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.

The 'especially' is the key word here, I think. The word rape, in common usage, denotes penetration of some kind. Too many boys and men have tried to use the excuse that since there was no penetration there was no harm, a fallacy that continues to this day.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

110. See That's Where You Lose Me.

I had stated that rape is generally reserved for penetration, but the definition does not explicitly limit it to such. I personally feel though less standard in common usage, that if a man walked up to a woman and started fondling her breasts by force that he technically did in fact rape her to some degree. But maybe I'm being too technical with what I consider rape.

[Pacifist Patriot]

96. I find them surprising, but only because the gap between...

women who have been abused and those who have not is not wider. Perhaps because those at highest risk are probably not likely to have regular access to a political bulletin board. Runaways, the homeless, and the poverty-stricken.

The definition you are using clearly renders rape a subset of sexual abuse. Forced sexual activity is not limited to actual penetration.

The prevalence of sexual abuse in our society is indeed shocking. So the next question is how do we create a society in which sexual abuse becomes a rare exception rather than a distressing norm?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

101. First, We Need To Make It As Comfortable And Socially Acceptable As

possible for victims to come forward. Some of the biggest problems with sexual abuse is that so many instances of it never see the public light of day. There needs to be more avenues for the victims to report such crimes and the stigmas associated with coming forward need to be erradicated. We need to put policies, agencies and cultural changes in place that make the victims feel completely safe, strong and empowered to come forward.

We then need to incorporate severe consistent penalties for anyone who commits such abuse.

There is no excuse for ever forcing sexual activity on anybody for any reason period.

[Pacifist Patriot]

103. In addition, we need....

foundational myths that render sexual abuse psychologically taboo. Perhaps that is what can arise from policy and legislative improvements. I don't know.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. I Apologize For Not Being Sure What You Meant There.

I was confused by the "we need foundational myths" part. Were you trying to say that we need to incorporate into our culture that it is not a psychologically taboo subject to consider oneself sexually abused?

[aikoaiko]

130. Don't you think we already consider rapists, pedophiles, & sexual abusers

....pretty much the scum of the earth?

[Pacifist Patriot]

159. I don't know about that.

When I see what adolescent girls and young women are subjected to these days, I have to wonder. When I stop to analyze the sexual content of popular movies, I have to wonder. When I hear the lyrics of contemporary music, I have to wonder.

But that really isn't what I'm talking about. I mean having a culture in which the idea of committing a sexual offense is as anathema to the potential offender as the thought of eating human flesh. I know that sounds hyperbolic, but I'm quite serious. Cannibalism carries with it a huge ICK factor and is a deeply ingrained psychological taboo. I do wonder if it will take that kind of mental paradigm shift for sexual abuse to become a thing of the past.

When will men look at women and just the thought of forcing sexual contact fill them with revulsion? When will sex cease being about power and domination?

[MysteryToMyself]

267. Common Sense tells me that will never happen

I have heard that when a man is sexually aroused he doesn't have a lick of sense, because all the blood leaves his mind and goes to his P***is. And there is a little bit of animal in every man.

Probably a normal man would not even think of forcing sex with anyone of any age. It is sexually aggressive deviates and I would say all of them are aware of the price of what they may have to pay if they do force themselves on someone else. It is either a case of lack of self control or overwhelming male hormones....or both.

If a rapist or molester is on parole, they are not allowed to have alcohol or pornography because it can lower their control and arouse them. That makes sense to me. Their parole is revoked if that is found in their home or possession during an unexpected search. I saw that on TV.

The saddest thing I have ever heard of happened to a serial killer. I don't remember his name, but he said when he was a little boy his father made him have sex, he had heard to tell another adult. He told his grandfather and his grandfather did the same to him. What a horrifying betrayal. It may have been Henry Lucas.

[Recursion]

121. A couple of things

1. Those numbers don't seem too far off, just from the anecdotal data of my friends (and, if it matters to anyone, my answer was male/yes). Maybe I know about a lot of cases because I end up talking about it with my friends who have been through something like that whereas you often won't open up to somebody who hasn't. (More out of concern for not dragging them down into your hell than anything else.)

2. Remember a poll like this will attract respondants with some interest in the subject; someone with no connection to sexual abuse might be more likely to just look at the title and move on.

3. Again, just from my straw-poll anecdotal evidence of the people I know, 70% is about right for women (counting rape, serious sexual assault, and childhood sexual abuse), and 45% seems maybe a little high for men. Then again, I think for a lot of men who have not been abused, the subject is kind of 'invisible' to them and so they'd be less likely to respond (whereas men who have been sexually abused tend to become invisible to everyone else...)

[triguy46]

137. Consistency among anecdote...

Is not effective statistics. Self responding surveys tend to exaggerate the tails of the distribution curves, those with the strongest feelings on the polar ends of a question or issue. Again, this serious topic deserves serious attention, or at least a google search to determine what has been reported in the literature. Then based on that review, furthur study could pursue the development of additional insight.

[triguy46]

135. This is a serious topic, it deserves better social science

I have no doubt of the veracity of the answers. The problem is that this is self reported and therefore not a representative sample. We have a numerator (# of those abused), but no denominator (population size). As such, we can make qualitative statements regarding those who responded, but we cannot extrapolate into a greater population. This is a problem in many social science investigations, the difficulty in obtaining controlled populations. Poorly designed survey instruments do not provide any insight other than the power of the anecdote. We can say, "We had X number of respondents say ----------------------." What we cannot say is what that rate or percentage is.

[melnjones]

141. Not raped. Sexually abused.

Sexual abuse includes but is definitely not limited to rape. Look up a definition.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

145. I Have, And If You'd Bother To Read The Other Responses You Would've Seen

that.

I also consider the definitions to be quite similar and interchangeable in my interpretation of them. But even regardless, my sentiment is still the same anyway.

[Caoimhe]

143. I didn't see "rape" as part of the poll

It says molested. That can be anything from being forced to touch a penis or touch yourself for his viewing pleasure, that can be groping and kissing and slapping genitalia, etc.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

148. Who Cares. My Sentiment Is Still The Damn Same Anyway.

If you as well had bothered to read the other responses in this subthread you would've seen me respond to this comment already. But once again, what difference does it make. My sentiment expressed doesn't change because you differ with me on what is considered an act of rape.

[woo me with science]

166. I agree. See my post above about recovered memories.

So-called "repressed" or "dissociated" memories of abuse are a real problem in any abuse statistics derived from self-reports. Even in this thread you can see references to abuse that was supposedly buried or not remembered. When you need a category of "not sure," there is a problem in data collection.

[devilgrrl]

170. there are several sorts of sexual abuse, rape qualifies as one type...

That should be taken into account.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

182. Frankly, I'm abit surprised they are not higher.....

in RE: those abused sexually.
fyi, the victims responding were abused sexually, not necessarily straight-out raped. Abuse does not require penatration.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

183. rather long sub thread

I see your clarifications within. It is a touchy 'nopunintended' subject.

[newspeak]

225. I'm sorry you find it hard to believe

I have eight female friends and family, including myself, who were sexually abused as children!!!! Again, we're talking between the ages of four to twelve--pedophilism!!!! Maybe I see it as prevalent, because more of my friends have experienced it. I remember back in 1977, Phil Donahue, had a pedophile on the show who was working for law enforcement--he stated that you would not believe how prevalent it is and who are the perpetrators--they are people that you trust, they are judges, politicians, law enforcement, doctors, teachers" He said that at the time there was a worldwide network "if you want a blue eyed little girl in Chicago, they can get her for you." Now, that was in 1977 and I remember that interview and it disturbed me then.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

240. No Need To Be Sorry, I'm 100% Comfortable Finding It Hard To Believe.

I find nothing for you to apologize for.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

260. You are so wrong.

I have never been raped or sexually abused, but in the course of my life talking with female friends, I'm the exception, not the rule.

[robbob]

262. The poll said "sexually abused"

..not raped, so it seems you are deliberatley misreading the results. Plus, as another poster pointed out, those who have been abused may be more likely to want to reply to this poll then those who have not.

<on edit> sorry; didn't realize this sub-thread had gotten so large, or that you had already read and responded to the points I was making...

[Marie26]

284. It's accurate, IMO

The statistics are often under-reported. I'm not sure why you would believe it isn't?

[K8-EEE]

115. I Had A Date Rape Situation...

that I clawed my way out of, I mean tooth and nail. Not sure if that counts!

[Ariana Celeste]

117. Yes. I don't talk about it much.

Twice at age 10- by two different men. One of the two, I still won't go into details about today. The other, though, was a friend of my dad's wife. They wanted a weekend alone or whatever and so sent the 3 of us girls to this man's house to stay the night. I woke up in the middle of the night being touched. I immediately knew who it was and that it was wrong and tensed up. He left the room. I spoke to my step sisters about it and found that this was entirely normal. I didn't tell any adults about it until I was a teen. I found out a couple of years ago, that my former step sisters finally spoke out... and he got arrested. Suffice it to say that the other time that I won't talk about was much worse than just being fondled by an old man.

As a teen I got a lot of harrassment, which I don't count. There was one male who got me wasted and then got me to do sexual things with him. He was in his young twenties, I was 13. I never told any adults about it, because of who this person was (I have forgiven and I love him, he is not an all together bad person and was really drunk that night- I don't think that was something he ever would have done sober) and because I was afraid of getting in trouble for drinking, I was afraid of being alienated from certain family...

And I don't know if it counts, but, I have had a couple of b/f's in the past who would guilt trip me into having sex when I didn't want to, and just lay it on thick until I gave in.

[Lars39]

119. Coercive sex is rape.

And the guy in his young twenties knew what he was doing, drunk or not. :hug:

[LeftyMom]

133. By a nurse practitioner

My doctor's offices' policy was that I had to see my pediatrician until I was 18 (which I was fine with, because he's awesome) but male doctors couldn't give minors pelvics even with another female in the room, so I had to schedule an appointment with a female NP for that. Well, long story short, she gave me a very thorough breast exam, and pronounced my breasts not fine or healthy, but "nice" in a tone that belonged in a singles bar rather than a pediatrician's office full of teddy bear posters and reminders to schedule your baby's shots. The bitch also pinched me with an enormous plastic speculum hard enough that I bled, but I don't know if that was intended or if she got off on it, though in hindsight neither would surprise me.

[NashVegas]

136. I'm So Tired of Outrage ...

Purely anecdotal: by the time I was in my mid-20s and could speak of it, an informal poll among my close friends turned up a figure of 57% yes. That was 15 or more years ago, before it was so commonly in the media.

This is what I call the dark side of the coin that is the Sexual Revolution. When we first began having frank discussions of sex in the 1950s, 1960s, it was mostly about the good stuff. It was new. People weren't ready to discuss the darker side. But if it hadn't been for the revolution, we still wouldn't be discussing abuse, so, I'm thankful for it.

[anarch]

138. nearly every woman I have ever been close to

has been either molested or raped as a child, or raped as an adult.

[ContraBass Black]

239. So it is in my case too.

I used to wonder if it was just because something about me caused me to commune with survivors.

[redherring]

142. I saw it happening right in front of my eyes

Back then, I was an ignorant boy, and didn't know much about sexual abuse. Mind you, this didn't happen in America. It was in a "third world" country, in Nepal, where I was born and raised. There was this one biology teacher who was a known pervert. What he did in front of my eyes was this: he basically grabbed this 17 yr old girl's breasts. I was 17 back then as well. I was of course shocked to see it happening right in front of me. Let's just say that in my old country, people are not cognizant of sexual abuse. People just don't talk about it. However, from what I understand, this moron has been fired from his teaching job. He should be sent to the hokey-pokey, but that's not how it works over there I guess. I bet my bottom dollar that he has probably indulged in more outrageous acts than this, but we will never know. Every student knew about it, it seems, yet nobody was willing to do anything about it. Teachers weild enormous power, you see, and they're supposed to be respected, no matter what they do.

[Caoimhe]

153. Yes, by the son of a preacher man

no joke. He was about 13 and I was under 6. My parents took in foster kids and this boy was in deep trouble with his family and school, and came to live with us for about a month. I had older brothers so I wasn't guarded around him but it wasn't two days into his stay with us that he got me cornered in my bedroom, demanded I take off my clothes, spread my labia and watch him masturbate. He then told me he'd tell my mom about it if I didn't allow him to explore my vagina with his fingers. I was so scared, I can't even tell you. He then tried to rape me but couldn't quite pull it off (I tried to lock my legs together) so I was at least spared that much. He ended up trying to french kiss me and I vomited. After that he pretty much left me alone. I guess puking on them is a turn off!

I never told a soul, and my parents still don't know. They'd be heartbroken. They thought that I was never out of their sight. Parents, you should know, it isn't gonna be a stranger on the corner, it will be someone you invite into your home. The person you least suspect. And just because your daughter tells you nothing's ever happened.. doesn't mean they aren't keeping it secret because of the shame and guilt associated with it. I remember my mom being shocked about hearing of other kids being molested and blaming the parents. She'd rant "How can those parents not be watching their own kids?" Those were the times I wanted to stand up and shout "YOU LET IT HAPPEN TO ME!" but I never have.

My mother in law was sexually abused by an older brother when she was growing up, and dumbly let her own kids go stay with said uncle. Guess what? He abused her kids too.

This weekend we were talking about a kid we remembered from grade school who I vaguely remembered people saying he way "gay". Being a small town, this was big news. My friend corrected me. It wasn't that the boy was gay, but that he'd been sexually assaulted under the bridge in town by a strange man. He was hurt pretty badly and the crime was reported and of course everyone heard about it. Suddenly, people (kids mostly) began taunting him about being gay! Isn't that awful? I wonder how he is now, 25 years later.

And YES, most women I've known have had similar or worse experiences. And many of the men I've met too.

[helderheid]

156. I just realized I failed to answer my own post. I am a woman who was

sexually abused.

[Alameda]

157. remembering abuse?

Some who are abused don't remember due to the trauma. It's a secret, even to themselves.

[helderheid]

158. I didn't remember until I hit puberty. I tried to kill myself at 13.

Thankfully I failed.

[Triana]

165. between the age of 9 and 13 - my older sister's husband...

...I won't go into detail.

[woo me with science]

167. A poll separating repressed or dissociated memories of abuse

from abuse that was always remembered would probably be more useful.

Abuse statistics based on self-report are contaminated by the inclusion of recovered memories that are unlikely to be factually accurate.

[melnjones]

172. Memories that aren't 100% factually accurate

may still be memories of abuse. A 3 yr old that is raped is not going to get all the details right, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Dissociated memories are very common, and often abuse survivors find correlating information after the memories return that proves what they remembered really happened (other eye-witnesses, medical reports, etc.).

[woo me with science]

178. Please see my post above.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1934857&mesg_id=1941848

Forgetting the details of a specific memory is very different from forgetting that abuse occurred at all, especially when it is alleged to have been severe and repeated, as is the case in so many of these cases.

[Lars39]

179. You need to source your assertions.

[woo me with science]

181. Um, no. That is not how science works.

The burden is on those who allege the concept of massive repression of abuse to prove that it exists. They have not done so, because they can't.

But your demand reflects the level of scientific understanding of most who believe in massive repression. The vast majority of the literature on it is anecdotal rather than scientific.

[melnjones]

192. I've listed a couple links

that are worthy of inspection. Here's another.
http://www.astraeasweb.net/politics/fqfmsfii.html
And like I said earlier, I have seen first hand repressed memories proven to be true by outside evidence. Is it possible to plant false memories? Sure...but this is why therapists need good training. Repressed memories are a real phenomena and they are more common than people would like to believe. Where are you getting your info from anyway? FMSF has an agendum, if that's your source...might want to look at their history.

On edit...regarding FMSF: http://www.astraeasweb.net/politics/fmsapa.html

[Lars39]

209. Then that makes your posts rather anecdotal also.

[Marr]

173. I'd be curious to know- is there a disparity between male and female

children when it comes to physical abuse? In my house, I was the only boy and had the shit beaten out of me by my mom all the time. She wouldn't touch my sisters, though. I don't mean "spankings", either. I'd had my nose broken twice by the time I was 12 or so.

[MysteryToMyself]

264. We are all victims of childhood

and probably no one has had a perfect one, but I have noticed some have a lot better childhood than others.

Only you can analyse how your mother treated you and find out why. It may be a "Man named Sue" dealy where a man names his son "Sue" because he wants his son to grow up fighting and tough, because he wasn't going to be there for him. That is a song by Johnny Cash.

You may have been the type of little boy that had high energy and were disruptive and hard headed and you may have pushed her to her limits. I assume are a male. She may have been trying very hard. She may have needed anger management.

I don't know your age, but you may have grown up at the time when parents didn't hesitate to knock the crap out of their kids.

There are so many reasons she may have been harder on you. If she is still living you could ask her. It would be healing. Then let it go. Move on.

Most of us have an inner strength we can draw on and get past things that have happened to us as children. There are things that can happen that are just as traumatic, not having anything to do with sex even to adults.

You may need to find out what you can about the situation you were in, then forgive her and promise yourself you will do better by your children.
I had an older brother that was impatient and hateful to me, even as adults. He was that way with all my siblings. He was the oldest and I was the ninth child. I was born the night he was graduated from high school. I tried transactional analysis and acted out the situation one day at home alone. I pretended he was there and I sassed and yelled and cursed him for every slight. After that I was calm in dealing with him and he seemed to sense it.

You can't control what people do, but you can learn to control your reaction to it.

[Greyhound]

174. Purely anecdotal, but more than half of the women I've know in my life

were. It used to shock me, then it scared me because I didn't know what to say/do, now I'm just very wary of men in general, and watch them very closely around my female friends.

[jerry611]

187. Oh yeah, like only men are capable of abuse

In fact according to studies, more than 40% of all domestic abuse is committed by the female in a heterosexual relationship.

And look at all these female teachers being arrested these days screwing around with little boys.

[Greyhound]

221. You can't possibly be serious, dude.

That is not to say that it doesn't happen, but the incidents are hardly comparable.

"All domestic abuse" includes everything from attempted murder to drunken shouting matches. I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that women commit 40% as many rapes as men, did you?

[LoZoccolo]

233. We're not having a contest to see which gender is not as bad as the other.

I might agree with you on the severity of domestic violence as a hunch, but I have to admit I don't have solid facts, plus I was surprised at the statistics of female-on-male violence to begin with. I just think it should be acknowledged that it's not only men doing it.

[Greyhound]

236. Hey I just replied to the OP, it was Jerry that brought up the misleading

DV comparison, and I think my response was quite measured.

The issue is sexual abuse not DV anyway. Sorry if I upset you.

[Recursion]

184. As a male victim, the worst part is trying to explain it

Because it always comes up. I just don't want sex as much as "normal" guys do. And this freaks women out. And I mean, seriously freaks some women out, like they had never before imagined the possibility that a man would not, at a given moment, want to have sex with them.

Back in the day, step 1 was that they "blamed" themselves and went on crash diets. Then they realized something was "broken" with me and got mad. So now I try to be honest from date #1 that I'm just not going to have the libido that most guys do and that I need to feel in control of whatever happens ("luckily" that part at least goes with conventional gender roles, unlike the unfortunate state of female victims). Nowadays I try to be as up-front about it as I can and make it known that "traditional" genital sexuality is if-y at best. C'est la vie.

Eh. It's a f**ked up world. At least I'm not being blown up on top of oil-rich land somewhere.

[melnjones]

191. There are lots of girls

out there who would love to find a guy with lower libido...especially some girls who are also survivors. I hope you find one and can heal together. :-)

[u4ic]

196. Yes

[PaDem]

208. I can just hear Limbaugh................

"Liberals are liberal because they were sexually abused as kids".

[newspeak]

226. well, if he's going to respond to that

he can also give the list of Repuke molesters and perverts with it.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

261. And that he hangs out with in the Dominican. nt

[Seabiscuit]

212. How can anyone be "not sure"?????????

[dropkickpa]

214. Because they are told time and time again

That they are exaggerating, or making it up, that it isn't really sexual abuse. This is one of the sad facts of our society, in that, in the case of sexual abuse, the victim is considered guilty until proven otherwise.

[conflictgirl]

227. Are you referring to sexual abuse happening only to children?

I generally think this question would mean sexual abuse that happens to children. If it were clearer that adult abuse such as date rape was to be included, I'd guess that it would significantly change the statistics.

[helderheid]

232. I'm referring to any sexual abuse at any age.

[conflictgirl]

235. Mentally subtract one from the 'no' column and one to the 'yes' then

:)

I think this is probably telling, that particularly for so many women, we find ways to justify what happened to us as "not really counting" as sexual abuse. I was raped by an acquaintance in high school, but was never molested by a family member as a child. I do have a creepy uncle who once tried to French kiss me and used to try to get me to smoke pot with him whenever I would babysit his kids, too. I think that latter example falls into a gray area, or at least that's what I have told myself. It was creepy and I still go out of my way to avoid being alone with him, but I'm not sure if that's really sexual abuse or just that he had a poor sense of what was appropriate.

I wish that our society was a lot more honest about sexuality so that these issues could be discussed more clearly. Someone up-thread said (paraphrasing) that it's so common for girls and women to be uncomfortable in our society that we often don't even think about it. I would say that's certainly true in my case. I tend to discount what happened to me because it wasn't like I was a victim of what I think of as more serious sexual abuse, like years of molestation by a family member or a stranger attacking me in a parking lot and raping me. The smaller, more everyday types of being uncomfortable and vulnerable is so common I almost take it for granted. :( Of course, now that I get older and fatter, I find that it happens less often...

[Raksha]

231. I answered "not sure" because I don't know

if what happened to me rises to the level of "abuse" or not. Certainly my drunken stepfather put his hands where they didn't belong on a couple of occasions, but I didn't internalize it or suffer from any misplaced guilt. I was eleven years old, and that was old enough to know he shouldn't be doing that and that I was in NO WAY at fault.

It was a different story with my younger sister. She was only eight years old. He did the same thing to her, but I think on many more occasions. The emotional damage continued for the rest of her life. She died of an overdose (suicide?) at age 34. So if I were answering for her I would say YES, she was most definitely abused.

[conflictgirl]

238. I think the definition of abuse is the same

I think the definition of abuse is in the act itself, not in whether or not the person is traumatized by what happened. I would say that you are fortunate that you came through your experiences without internalizing it or suffering from misplaced guilt. To me, that argument is similar to thinking that torture somehow becomes okay in circumstances of war. It's the same behavior, whether it's in wartime or not; the justifications don't change the act. The same is true with sexual abuse - the act is the same regardless of how much it damages the victim.

I do understand some of where you are coming from, though, because I myself have also spent some time questioning the things that happened to me and trying to define whether or not they were abusive and to what extent.

I am really sorry to hear about your sister. :(

[Raksha]

246. You're probably right that it's the act itself that constitutes abuse

and not whether the victim internalizes any guilt or not. After all, that depends upon the maturity of the victim and is NOT to the "credit" of the abuser.

But you can definitely count me among the many who is related to someone who was sexually abused.

[Name removed]

237. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[doc03]

243. Not sexually, but mentally

I had a brother 6 years older than me that taunted me constantly as long as I can remember. From as early as 6years old until he finally left home when he was about 22 I was always a fat slob or some other insult. He always would always screw with me when there were no witnesses, at the diner table if I would look his way he would always mouth fat slob or something. Sometimes I would explode with anger and then my parents would think I was the problem. One time I lunged across the table with a steak knife at him and latter I overheard them discussing taking (me) to a Psychiatrist. I remember one time when I must have been about 6 or 7 he tried to smother me to death with a pillow.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

249. No, but I did have an uncle who tried it when I was sixteen.

I just slapped him and told him to get his drunken self out of my room. But I never did tell my parents. I don't know how my dad would have handled it. His only brother. Years later he stopped drinking and married a nice person. I never said a word to anyone. But I never let my kids be alone with him.

[Allenberg]

265. I'd imagine by law I was.

When I was 14-17, I had oral sex with my best friend's brother who was in his early 20s. I kind of initiated it, though.

[astral]

285. wow

You know, I always knew the number of sexually abused females was shockingly high, just because of all of the women I have heard say it happened to them -- it seems 50% or HIGHER, actually!). Usually a father, stepfather, uncle, or brother. And these were multiple incidents from the same perpetrators often carrying on for months or years. Real rapes and I don't care if the girl is pre-pubescent or post-pubescent, it is still the same horrendous crime. An awful lot of this stuff starts with the girl being waaaaay under ten years old and continues into her teens.