Another republican caught on video slurring a minority- Blacks this time

[bigtree]

August 17, 2006

Another Politician Caught on Video

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/08/17/another_politician_caught_on_video.html

In Florida's 13th congressional district race, for the seat being vacated by Rep. Katherine Harris (R-FL), Republican front runner Tramm Hudson (R) is the latest politician to make unforunate comments caught on amateur video. Said Hudson:

"I grew up In Alabama, and I understand, and I know this from my experience, but blacks are not the greatest swimmers or may not even know to swim."

Red State has the video: (http://www.redstate.com/stories/elections/2006/tramm_hudson_destroys_himself)

Hudson later issued a statement: (http://www.trammhudson.com/?page=news-article&id=82)

"I said something stupid. I apologize for it and would apologize in person to anyone hurt by my comments. To those who are understandably offended, you have my deepest apologies and I want you to know that it was out of character for me and those who know me know that to be a fact. This was a thoughtless remark that does not reflect my lifetime commitment to treating everyone fairly and without bias. I apologize to everyone who is offended by this comment."

[arcane1]

1. "it was out of character for me"

indeed, usually he doesn't use the word "blacks"

what a prick

sadly, the base loves it

[Jack from Charlotte]

10. Meet Anthony Nesty.......

1988 Olympic Gold Medal winner and All-America swimmer at The University of Florida. He's currently a swimming coach at Florida.

http://www.gatorzone.com/swimmingdiving/coaches.php?sport=swimw&coach=nesty.html

Maybe it just those Alabama Black people who.... EVERYONE (of the Republican persuasion) knows can't swim.

[MidwestTransplant]

23. Out of charcter to say in public I am sure.

[erknm]

38. Not sure which racism I prefer, , ,

the southern racism that is more out in the open, or the northern racism that tends to stay hidden. I suppose better the enemy you know. Some of the most horribly racist people I have ever met I grew up with in south Boston.

[eleny]

98. I prefer neither and would never vote for Hudson. Would you?

[erknm]

107. er, uh, let's see , , ,

in my other post in this thread I wrote:
__________________________
I love it when these people, whether it is a politician or an anti-semite actor. They always respond with some drivel like "this does not reflect my true feelings" or "this was completely out of character" or some other cya lie.

For a politician, there is no good option. Either he is too much of a racist because the statement was in character, or he is too stupid to be able to control his statements regarding a politically charged issue. Either way this guy should not get elected.
_________________________

Now granted, my first sentence is ungrammatical, but my position seems to be plain enough. I noticed that you didn't respond to that post.

As for preferring neither, being indifferent is certainly your option. I prefer to know when I am in the presence of a flaming racist. I don't know if Hudson is, but early indications are that he is either racist or lacks the judgement and intellect to control his statements.

FH

[eleny]

110. Preferring neither means that one rejects any form of racism

That requires an individual to be mindful and working on the issue as a way of life. You set up a false choice, IMO.

And no, I didn't respond to your other posting. It's not my obligation to make time to follow you around trying to decipher your true intentions on any issue. It's up to each of us to be clear or take it on the chin when things go sideways because we're guilty of fuzzy postings. I speak from experience! :evilgrin:

Take care and see you around the boards. It's time for me to go make dinner.

[NovaNardis]

43. To be fair...

I think that was a good apology. The comments were seemingly made not intended to hurt or demean, unlike George Allen. Hudson seemed sincerely apologetic for a slip of tounge. Let me be politically incorrect for a minute, but saying blacks can't swim is like saying whites can't dance... to an extent.

It might be hurtful to some people, but it isn't intended that way and while I don't believe Hudson is justified in saying it, I think this apology is accpetable and approriate. George Allen, on the other hand... That boy's a racist.

[Divernan]

46. Welcome to DU - and your good, fair-minded post is welcome too.

nt

[NovaNardis]

82. Thank You

Not entirely new to DU, I just don't post that often. And thanks for not flaming me, I thought you were all gonna say I was in bed with Joe Lieberman and Co. ;-)

[bigtree]

49. he did go right at it, and didn't equivocate

kinda makes folks take a different look at him, though. In the meantime, I've no interest in covering any part of his republican ass. And, I won't pretend that this is the first slur I've heard from one. It's a pattern of behavior, I think. The republican party has not been legislatively responsive (and resistant in most cases) to the needs and concerns of minorities, so it rings true when they cast minority groups and individuals in a less than favorable light in private snippets and these candid public blathers.

It's not like the republican party has been such a supporter and partner of the minority communities that they should be given latitude to disparage the abilities of Blacks or anyone else because of some proven affinity they* want us to believe they share with them. Without credible allies in these communities to deflect and smooth over their ignorant comments they will deservedly take a heap of hits on this.

[p12psicop]

64. I wanna be fair too

...which is far less than the other side would do, and we're supposed to be better than them. I watched the video, and he came across as sincerely conveying some anecdote about his personal military experience. If it has been his experience in Alabama that the blacks he knew were poor swimmers then that can't be helped, and if the majority of the black enlisted soldiers were having a hard time crossing a river, then that's a relevant aspect of his story. He didn't seem racist at all, just trying to tell his story.

On the other hand I totally hope it ruins his campaign. }(

[bigtree]

71. he slurred all blacks in the way that he conveyed it

he didn't allow that other blacks, in other parts of the country, may have had a different life experience than the blacks he knew in Alabama, or the ones he knows in Florida.

I suspect that's why he immediately apologized. He realized that his statements would be interpreted as his view that "blacks were not good swimmers" and "may not know how to swim." It's an ignorant comment on its face. I seriously doubt he was thinking of some statistic that's been posted here backing up the statement.

He just laid out his view about "blacks" abilities. He referred to not just Alabama blacks (although I would imagine they were on his mind), but "blacks" in general. Quite a limited view from a man who wants to represent his state in the United States Congress.

If I were a minority member or group in his district, concerned with effective, comprehensive representation of blacks in congressional legislation and initiatives, I would certainly be wondering what other limitations he thinks "blacks" have.

[bliss_eternal]

73. Bingo!

...and very well said. Thank you. :applause:

Quote:
he didn't allow that other blacks, in other parts of the country, may have had a different life experience than the blacks he knew in Alabama, or the ones he knows in Florida.

[Blue-Jay]

74. Yes, I'm sure it was totally innocent and not racist.

:eyes:

[redqueen]

94. Isn't the 'whites can't dance' thing mostly used as a joke?

Was this guy joking around?

Just wondering... but it's a good point you make.

[wordpix2]

112. maybe many blacks can't swim b/c they weren't taught & didn't have the op=

portunity. I don't think it's in their DNA that they "can't swim."

And what does this have to do with election issues, besides the fact Hudson made himself look like the ass he is? Why is he going off on this tangent? Is there a swimming pool or country club he doesn't want blacks to belong to?

[underpants]

2. I'm telling you guys I am just telling you

someone is going to drop the N bomb and the wedge issue of all wedge issues is going to be on the table and they are going to have their talking points ready to go and those talking points will appease all the racists and the ones who actually know it is wrong.

[bigtree]

5. okay, so, it appeases them and they nominate their extreme candidates

in an atmosphere of public opinion that is strongly in opposition to the republican extreme right.

Also, its always good when you can take whatever image they wanted to project for their campaigns and muddy it up with their own foibles. Then, of course, our opposition will have to step up to the opportunity to present themselves as an alternative by focusing on the issues as the republicans hang themselves backpeddling.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. Why did he have to mention that most of them were black when he

was explaining crossing the river? He couldn't just tell his damn story without bringing race into it?

[blogslut]

15. no shit

just adding that element is indicitive of a mindset.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

24. yep

it's like the Tell-Tale heart, it demands to be known.

[bliss_eternal]

66. Ding, ding, ding!!! We have a winner...!

Seriously--it wasn't relevant. Why don't people think about that? :eyes:

[bullwinkle428]

4. "Doesn't reflect my true character at all / against everything I

stand for..." - ahhhh, the classic "Mel Gibson defense"!!

[Divernan]

44. Mel Gibson has not belonged to an interfaith study group for five years

or been endorsed for political office by a county wide Jewish group. However, if you go to the links provided in the OP, and my post #42, you will see facts detailing that this politician continues to be endorsed by the county NAACP chapter, and has been a member of an interracial Bible study group for five years. Further, the transcript provided gives some context - this former military officer was talking about a group of soldiers helping each other out.

[bliss_eternal]

62. Apparently, people don't ever do things for public relations...

:eyes: purposes. Not ever.

I have serious doubts that * can even read, much less read to a group of school children, but he was there and we've been told he did it. Does that automatically mean he likes kids? That he liked My Pet Goat? Or that he even particularly likes reading to school children?

Engaging in an activity with a group of people does not mean someone is necessarily immune from disliking them or harboring some non pc beliefs about them.

I guess you've never known of any people that do things that are contradictory in nature. They never belong to organizations or groups just for the sake of how it would look on a resume or to future constituents...

Just not possible. :crazy:

[bullwinkle428]

67. It was still a very poorly-worded comment from someone that should

realize how important the skill of public speaking is when you're running for public office like this, if indeed, he was actually trying to say something in the spirit of universal brotherhood.

[AspenRose]

6. ...

"Blacks are awful at winter sports."







"Blacks don't do gymnastics."



"Blacks don't play hockey."







"Blacks aren't any good at golf...that's a white sport."



".....but blacks are not the greatest swimmers or may not even know to swim."
Mark my words: Somewhere, possibly at an urban "Y" swimming pool, a future black olympic swimmer is getting ready.

Maybe he didn't realize that indeed, some blacks CAN swim, because he's going by what he saw growing up and hanging out at the whites only Jim Crow swimming pools in Alabama...

[arcane1]

13. indeed, in that sense he has a point:

black people can't learn to swim when the pool is for whites only

[hedgehog]

37. Agreed

The clip is cut short, but it sounds as if he is suggesting that the blacks he knew had never had a chance to learn to swim. That's not the same thing as suggesting that blacks can't swim,period. The context appears to be him telling a story about how people from all backgrounds have to stick together. A racist comment in that context wouldn't make sense.

[Divernan]

45. Congratulations! You actually read the links before posting!

Evidently quite rare on this thread! But hey, all these post from the hip DUers know better than the local black leaders who have known this guy for years.

[undergroundrailroad]

109. This post provides the most context and is RIGHT ON in it's meaning.

Thank you.

UGRR

[cascadiance]

14. And bobsledders too...

[AspenRose]

18. The third picture down is a bobsledder too

Vonetta Flowers got the Gold in SLC in 2002.

[bliss_eternal]

41. ...as usual, DesertedRose--you bring some

light and reason to discussions. Thank you for the great pictures and great post! :hi::hug:

I wish more here could see the ignorance inherent in such statements as linked from the original post. I wish I saw far less people that feel the need to defend those that make such statements. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

83. I'm embarassed to admit this, but if not for the movie

Cool Runnings, I wouldn't have known about the Jamaican bobsledding team. :hi: During the winter Olympics I usually only follow the figure skating--shame on me. It's so cool that Jamaica is represented!

[smtpgirl]

59. Dominique Dawes, gymnast from MD

Her family has business all over the Metro DC area, she is such a schmuck.

:sarcasm:


Rather have Dominique on my side that Kerry Strug, that RW'er

WIKI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerri_Strug


After gymnastics
After graduation, Strug worked as an elementary school teacher in the San Francisco area before moving to Washington, DC, in 2003.

She worked as a staff assistant with the U.S. Office of Presidential Student Correspondence, moved to a job at the Office of the General Counsel in the Treasury Department, and in March 2005, joined the Justice department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention staff as a presidential appointee. Strug has also been an active marathon runner, having run marathons in Houston, New York, Boston and Chicago.

[bliss_eternal]

65. I saw Dominique on a news magazine show recently...

she's an amazing young woman. :)

[Dhalgren]

7. If he was speaking "out of character", then the question must be

ask -"why?". What was his motivation for speaking out of character? Was he suddenly possessed by the spirit of a bigot? Was he in the throws of some sort of racist seizure? Does he suffer from multiple personalities and "Bocephus" is just a redneck and shouldn't be confused with "Tramm"? These fucks should not be allowed to get away with the old saw, "It was out of character" or "I had no idea that calling someone Macaca or shit-head or questioning their nationality would be considered inappropriate". Anyone who has grown up in the south (especially) has heard all of this old bullshit for most of their lives - and we all know what it really is; just damage control for when you slip-up and say what you really think. I cannot believe that all these Republican fascist/racist/bigots are getting passes from the media for this crap...Jesus!

[shanti]

8. unbelievable

but on another board i post to, a black repiglican actually stated that he stumped for allen! his words:

<how did this jerk get elected??>

"He got in office because I helped put him there by voting for him, campaigning for him and working his campaign. And he will be there another six years because I am making sure he does get tre-elected. I met the man and worked with him. If he was a "racist", "jerk", "prejudice" or any other label you cads would like to put on him I would know. He is a bully, just like any driven person is.

Did you know he was proposing along with John Lewis, something I VEHEMENTLY disagree with, a formal apology for slavery in America from the US Congress? I am opposed to it because 1) people like you will see it as a political ploy, 2) the people of today, both children of slaveholders and children of slaves have both benefitted from the institution of slavery and 3)any apology would do nothing but place more words into the atmosphere that are nothing more than a waste of space."

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

34. Wow...deep inside, this guy has got to have a shitload of cognitive

dissonance going on.

[shanti]

40. yes, how does someone

especially a black person, especially a black muslim (which this person is) justify slavery?? it boggles the mind. did you see how casually he blew off allen's being a bully? bushbot all the way. :(

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

60. I can kind of see blowing off someone being a bully.

I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. However, for a black person, regardless of religion, to justify slavery in any way, shape or form boggles the mind of this little northern white girl.

[erknm]

39. So which is it???

I love it when these people, whether it is a politician or an anti-semite actor. They always respond with some drivel like "this does not reflect my true feelings" or "this was completely out of character" or some other cya lie.

For a politician, there is no good option. Either he is too much of a racist because the statement was in character, or he is too stupid to be able to control his statements regarding a politically charged issue. Either way this guy should not get elected.

FH

[smtpgirl]

58. That's the problem, whether northern or southern

IT IS WRONG.

Why I should tell my co-workers that they are not up to snuff in the IT field. Most of my co-workers are African-American, and they help me so much. I have not worked with a better group of people, always willing to help a newbie.

[Dhalgren]

87. Bingo! Exactly! There are only two options to explain these

kinds of statements. You hit it dead on - racism or stupidity and either is unacceptable in an elected official.

Oh, and welcome to DU, erknm! :hi:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bikesein]

9. What an ass

This is 2006 NOT 1906 that he wants to take us back to. :mad:

[RedEarth]

11. That's pathetic....what a complete freaking moron

[MnFats]

12. Maybe he was thinking of Emmit Till, who had difficulty swimming..

...after some KKK m*****f****rs beat him to a bloody pulp, then threw him into the Tallahachie River with a cotton gin tied around his neck.

[Subdivisions]

16. He is a product of his

culture...a Republican culture.

[BlooInBloo]

17. lol! "this time" - yah, it's soooo rare! (giggle)

[bigtree]

19. I had to get a dig in

I gotta believe there are a lot of folks buying videocameras just to catch these bigots in action. Stay tuned . . .

[tanyev]

69. How long before all video and audio recording devices are

banned at GOP events? Only their personnel will be allowed to film or tape, and they will be happy to provide you with an authorized copy after the event.

[bigtree]

72. I'd like to see them announce that right now

as if they had something to hide

[Recursion]

20. Geez... what point was he trying to make?

I mean, it's one thing if he was trying to push for more aquatics / YMCA / whatever funding to address the problem (which is probably in fact true) that lots of African Americans don't have the opportunity to learn to swim, but I have trouble imagining that's why he brought it up (can't get the video to play; so I don't know if it shows what the point was).

I mean, it's not even like that's race-baiting really; I can't imagine saying that would score "code word" points like 'macaca' would. Frankly it just makes him look like an amateur pol making a bush-league mistake.

[warrens]

21. Let me guess. He was praying for another Katrina?

That's one way to win, I guess.

[BlueJazz]

22. One of my friends who happens to be black... is standing beside ....

me readng this,,

LOL LOL!!!

He just said:
"Well Shoots..Boss Man..I's can'ts swim but I's do
da Hambone Real Good..

What a good Sport...
I love Him...

[elehhhhna]

95. Ask himn if it's true that "they" have

an extra bone in their feet that makes them unable to swim. I dare ya.


LMAO

[valerief]

25. This has to be some Rovian strategy. There are just too many

instances of racial slurs occurring.

[JohMunich99]

79. Do you honestly think Rove controls all of these candidates?

He doesn't have time to do all of this.

[valerief]

92. Maybe I should have said Rovesque. n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

96. You wasted your response.

The poster you responded to is tombstoned. He must have been a troll. :hi:

[valerief]

99. I think I checked before I responded and he wasn't tombstoned.

But he sounded like a troll, for sure.

[DarkTirade]

26. Come to think of it... in my swimming class in high school

there was only one black guy... :) I kid of course. Most of the people in the swim class were like me... we liked to exercise, but living in Florida, we just didn't want to do it in the heat/humidity and end up all sweaty and nasty.
So instead we ended up twice as wet, and smelling like chlorine.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

27. hahahah!

ahh Florida. . . sigh.

[cyclezealot]

28. While I deplore their racism.

We know far too many Repugs are racists. That's why Nixon appealed to Strom Thurmond.
I think truth in packaging laws are good for the consumer. About time their ilk be revealed for what they are. George Allen one day another Repug the next.

[chelsea0011]

29. Oh no. Not the "blacks can't swim" racial comment.

Under what rock do these people live?

[bigtree]

32. remember the freeper uproar over the swimming requirement in N. Miami

that was dropped for new black police recruits, reportedly to encourage more Haitians to join the force . . .?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-04-22-miami-swimming_x.htm

[Skittles]

30. they can't help themselves, can they?

just pathetic

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KamaAina]

33. "Black Men Can't Swim"

A little role reversal from "White Men Can't Jump". But who to cast as the black Woody Harrelson? :-)

[Botany]

35. Just call em N****** with heavy bones and forget it.

" ......... I want you to know that it was out of character for me."

Republican conservative who grew up in Alabama being a bigot?

Wow that is a real stretch.


?i=063005182716

Tramm Hudson, no way this boy is a cracker.

[IWantAChange]

36. apology not accepted

Shoot, if GWB doesn't have to abide by the Constitution why should a lowly GOP candidate have to apologize for what he believes in - that if you don't pass the GOP 'duck test' (look like a Republican, talk like a Republican and waddle like a Republican) you must be one of 'them' - and 'them' don't really matter??

[savemefromdumbya]

47. Another closet KKK member?

[Mistahkleeen]

48. Wow

I live in Fla. This guy's support just jumped 10 points.

[bigtree]

51. among bottom-feeding swill

[savemefromdumbya]

53. now that's interesting

[KingFlorez]

50. I'm glad he said it, we need to bury as many Repukes as possible

Their mouths destroy them sometimes

[bliss_eternal]

52. LOL!

Good point! :hi:

I was taking notes during the immigration debates--several said some doozies around that time, including the guy in our governor's office--schwarzennegger. I'm hoping that many don't forget some of the hateful crap he's spewed.

[savemefromdumbya]

56. yep!

[Whoa_Nelly]

54. I have a black friend who was made to show her swimming skills

all the while the college coach (in Mississippi) saying, "Everyone, come look! I'll be damned! This one knows how to swim!" She was in college on a basketball scholarship.

It was ridiculous and humiliating for her. She's now just out of the Navy (made Lieutenant CO), is finishing up her last two classes to earn her Master's in Business and finance, and was just hired by Target Corp. in Virginia Beach area to manage from a high level position.

Ignorant bigoted dumbasses who actually believe the crap left over from the slave days. :grrr:

[bliss_eternal]

70. OMG! Your poor friend...

how hideous and humiliating for her! :grr::mad:

What your friend experienced was quite overt, but you'd be surprised the little unintentional "codes" some can use that let others know right away that they are dealing with a bigot.

[Raine]

55. The just can't help themselves

they continually shoot off their big mouths giving themselves away, just doing what comes naturally to them. :silly:

[smtpgirl]

57. Those RW'ers are apologizing alot,

what's up with that????

The problem with Repugs, is they have "shielded" their true beliefs for 6 years, not the slips.

TOTAL FAKES

[bliss_eternal]

77. ...Until they apologize for putting * in office...

I don't want to hear it. :(

[smtpgirl]

61. That Dude lives in a SHACK,

I am a DC native, and there are all kinds of nationalities, ways of life, customs, religions.

Why can't people just accept who people are? I know I am just an optomist!!

FYI, I live my life be realism, just can't deal with small minds

[tinfoilinfor2005]

63. Bullshit. It is now open season for racists and bigots

because their base just love to hear these kinds of ugly snarky attacks being brought out into the open. I was raised in an area where ugly little things were said about people of different races. "Kick a negro in the shins and they can't defend themselves" or "Negroes can't swim so don't worry if they fall in the water."

Fortunately I was raised by people who told me that this was utter bullshit and that God created people of many different colors who were all equal in His eyes.

I guess that might be the reason why I go out of my way to cheer for people of color who can kick the butts of these cross eyed inbred little chicken shits...in or out of the water!

And P.S. And I'm as white as the underbelly of a fish.

[bliss_eternal]

84. I'm sorry that I'm late responding to this...

but your post gave me the most delicious fit of giggles. :rofl: Thank you for that!

Your parents sound like good people. ;) :hi: They must be proud of the way you've turned out.

[eridani]

68. What's really silly about this is using statistics to describe individuals

It is actually true that black people on the average have slightly higher bone densities than white people, but you get two normal curves overlapping so that most of us are in the middle. Olympic swimmers all come from a couple of standard deviations out, which tends not to include black people, but that should have zero relevance to amateur competition and recreational swimming. More to the point, there is a very nasty history of denying this kind of recreation to black people.

[bliss_eternal]

75. Great point...

Quote:
More to the point, there is a very nasty history of denying this kind of recreation to black people.

There are many black families that worked hard to ensure their children weren't denied the opportunities that were denied them. But somehow those stats fall in the cracks.

I love the post above (I think by Deserted Rose) that states somewhere in the world, there is a young black kid in a pool preparing to blow this ignorant doofus's theory to hell. There WILL be a professional black swimmer, just like there have been in other areas that some wanted to assume blacks could never infiltrate.

Sadly, there will probably even be an African American in Nascar (if there isn't already)...(sigh) though I would hope one would find better uses of their time. :eyes: Does it show that I'm not a Nascar fan? :P

[T.T.]

80. Meet Cullen Jones

Actually, Cullen Jones just won the 50 Free at the US Nationals this month! The "fastest swimmer" in the country title belongs to a black man:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-swim17aug17,1,6561558.story?coll=la-headlines-sports&ctrack=1&cset=true

Has some interesting information on his father not so sure about the swimming career at first...Glad Cullen stuck to his passion!

Here's a nice picture!

http://it.sports.yahoo.com/14082006/1/immagine/cullen-jones-celebrates-after-winning-the-men-s-50-meter.html

[bliss_eternal]

81. Welcome to DU, T.T...!

and thanks for this information! Now that I'm aware of him, I'll be following his career, so thanks! :hi:

[eridani]

86. Not quite sure about the median values for bone density

If they are fairly close, you could be right. Probably a lot better than the odds of a woman playing in the NFL. With racing, that probably doesn't make any difference.

[cascadiance]

89. And the stereotypes work both ways too...

Individuals shouldn't be trapped by some sort of categorization based on their skin or racial background to say whether they can or can't do something. Yup I'm sure there will be some black swimmer to come up the ranks that will smash everything to hell the way Tiger Woods did on the golf course.

Also, I remember a few years back how Tim Dwight also defied the "slow white guy" stereotype and was one fast dude on the football field in running back punts, etc. I still remember him running around Ladanian Tomlinson as Tomliinson was running all out down the football field sideline towards the endzone and laying in a final block to let Tomlinson run into the endzone for the Chargers. That was replayed quite a bit. Just like we shouldn't write off AFro-Americans ability to swim, we also shouldn't write off others in other sports, endeavors, etc. too like sayin only black people are fast, etc. too, even though culturally they might be more apt to be better at running, etc. due to what they've been brought up to do much like many whites are more brought up to do swimming, golf, and hockey culturally too, fueling the idea that somehow they are genetically better at those sports too.

Folks like Tiger Woods and Tim Dwight are finding ways to defeat these stereotypes along with some great talent that each of them are individually born with and have nurtured.

[bliss_eternal]

90. So true...I'm glad you used these examples...

Some people are gifted athletically and it doesn't have anything to do with race. Some people are born with it, some just work very hard at it because they have a passion for it and based on that they excel.

I heard an absolutely heartbreaking story from a woman once. From the time she was a child she wanted nothing but to be a ballet dancer. Being african american, she was discouraged by her ballet teachers and told that there was no place in ballet for a women of color. They didn't believe that african americans could be ballerinas. :eyes:

This was of course before the time of Dance Theater of Harlem and Alvin Ailey. Had she pursued her dream, she surely could have danced with them. I was shocked hearing her tell this story, because to look at her, I honestly couldn't imagine her as anything else--she carried herself like a dancer, had a dancer's body, etc.

Anyway, she decided to pursue her dream as an adult in her thirties. She didn't care what form it had to take and decided to study dance at the college level. I saw her dance in the college concert. She was nothing short of amazing! She looked like she'd been dancing her entire life--she was a joy to watch!

Just an example I'm aware of that illustrates how damaging such beliefs can be, especially when people decide to buy into such nonsense. It's horrible that she allowed others ideas of "what race can do what" to keep her from something she so obviously belonged in.

I hated the report on Primetime or 20/20 that stated there was a genetic difference that made one race better athletes than another. I don't even know what the final conclusion was of their ridiculous study--I got so disgusted by the story, I turned it off.

[KittyWampus]

76. Statistics- Black Kids 2x More Likely To Drown Than White Peers

L.A. Effort Narrows Swimming's Racial Gap
by Karen Grigsby Bates
African-American children ages 5 to 19 years fatally drowned at 2.3 times the rate of white children in this age group during 2002–2003. As children get older, drownings often occur in open water areas such as ponds, lakes and rivers.
Source: Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Day to Day, July 3, 2006 · Statistics show that black children are more than twice as likely to drown than their white peers. But at the John Argue Swim Stadium in Los Angeles -- built for the 1984 Summer Olympics -- an effort is under way to teach all children how to swim.

Andre Brent oversees the pools at the stadium, located in Exposition Park, just south of downtown L.A. His job is to turn splashers into swimmers, and he's firm with youngsters who may not grasp all the dangers at hand.

"They think they're superman," he says. "And they're not."

In fact, according to the Centers for Disease Control, accidental drowning is the second-leading cause of death for children from 1-14. And black children run the highest risk of all.

To narrow the racial gap in swimming, the L.A.-based Amateur Athletic Foundation gives grants to swim facilities in Southern California.

Especially in a city full of pools, "economics should not be a barrier to learning to swim," says Patrick Escobar, the foundation's vice president.

During the school year, the foundation's grants provide money help transport children to pools for lessons. And they help public pools give low-cost or free lessons in the summer. Escobar says the foundation is providing the training for which public schools no longer have the resources.

He's also a member of USA Swimming's diversity task force. As such, he sees the foundation's initiative creating new options for children of color. Many colleges and universities -- especially in California -- offer athletic scholarships for water sports.

Kalif Muhammad, 11, learned how to swim in the Exposition Park program. Now he scuba dives and plays competitive water polo. He's also a junior lifeguard.

Programs such as the one at Exposition Park might turn out thousands-more Kalifs, reducing drownings in summers to come... and narrowing swimming's racial gap, one child at a time.


Related NPR Stories
June 20, 2006
Diversity at the Swimming Pool Aug. 18, 2005
First Black Woman on Olympic Swim Team
July 30, 2004
For U.S. Swimmer Maritza Correia, an Olympic First
May 19, 2004
Florida Program Encourages Black Swimmers

[LeahMira]

93. Standard deviations aside...

there is a very nasty history of denying this kind of recreation to black people

... that gets closer to the truth. Who can imagine what minorities might have accomplished for themselves and for all of us if not held down by the "nasty history" that many people just don't want to think about.

[CATagious]

103. it's not about being white or black...

but, rather, the environment that one grows up in. My wife has 4 brothers and 4 sisters. They grew up in a poor, rural area of Ky. and not a one of them can swim. I always thought that odd but she pointed out that there weren't any pools near them and their parents never took them anywhere... I mean, 8 kids! Just taking my one daughter places can be challenging at times... hehe. I always thought that country kids grew up out in nature: hunting, fishing, swimming. But, apparently, if you don't have access to a pool as a kid, then you likely won't know how to swim.

[bliss_eternal]

108. Thank you--

for saying this. I'm getting a bit tired of comments from posters that seem to think it IS a racial issue and not one based on opportunity, exposure, where one lived, etc., etc.

Always nice to see some posts that don't dogpile on ignorance with more insensitive and unfounded statements. :hi:

[McCamy Taylor]

78. Ignorant assumption. based on drowning statistics. Young men, esp African-

Americans have a lower than average ratio of body fat which makes it difficult for them to float (and easy for them to sink) This is why you are always hearing about teenaged boys drowning in fresh water lakes but not teenaged girls (they are loaded with boyant body fat). Even high school athletes will drown. If you get tired in the middle of the lake and run out of energy, and you can float you survive. If you get tired and cant float, you drown.

However, the ability to FLOAT has nothing to do with the ability to SWIM. The way the politician phrased it makes it sound like Blacks are unskilled.

[bigtree]

85. Meet the Democratic Challengers

Jan Schneider on the Colbert Report
April 24, 2006

Jan Schneider, Democratic Congressional Candidate for Florida's 13th District appeared with Norman Ornstein of the American Enterprise Institute on the Comedy Channel's Colbert Report with Stephen Colbert Monday evening, April 24. The show is repeated throughout the day on Tuesday, April 25. The topic was campaign finance.

In 2004 Jan won the Democratic Primary on a modest budget, against an opponent with nearly four times the money. She went on to give the best showing of any Democratic candidate running against an incumbent in Florida. Jan nearly beat Katherine Harris in 2002 and 2004 with less than 1/10th of Harris' campaign money.

In addition to the immediate need to revitalize and restore confidence in our national economy, Jan is particularly interested in the issues of ensuring quality, affordable heath care for everyone in our country, safeguarding Social Security, protecting our environmental and natural resources, granting all our children access to quality public education, and enhancing long-term security against all types of terrorist attacks.

Jan Schneider is experienced in international relations and politics in our nation's capital, including the United States Congress. Jan's legal and legislative experience: she is a member of the Bar of the State of Florida, the District of Columbia, and the State of New York, and has served on numerous and diverse professional and public interest boards.

Jan was deeply involved in the 1992 Presidential Campaign. She was responsible for Yale Outreach, and New York and New Jersey Lawyers for Clinton-Gore 1996. Jan also researched for and prepared policy papers for the Clinton/Gore Transition Team. She worked for Terry McAuliffe, now chairman of the Democratic National Committee and Ann Jordan while they co-chaired the 1997 Presidential Inaugural Committee. In addition to numerous other political activities, Jan was a legal volunteer in Palm Beach during the recount in Election 2000.

Watch Jan on the Colbert Report: http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=62368

and: visit http://www.VoteJan.com to learn more about her campaign

FRIENDS OF JAN SCHNEIDER
Headquarters: 5025 N. Tamiami Trail Sarasota, Fl 34234
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 57, Sarasota, Florida 34230-0057
Telephone: [phone] - Facsimile: [phone]

_______________________________

Christine Jennings

Christine Jennings has never been one to shy away from a challenge. She worked her way up from bank teller to president of the bank she founded at a time when women executives were rare. On her way to the top of the banking world, Christine served in numerous leadership positions with various banks before serving as President, CEO, Chairman of the Board and Director of Sarasota Bank.

A native of New Boston, Ohio, Christine moved to Sarasota in 1984 and has been actively involved in the community ever since. She has served in leadership roles in a number of civic and charitable groups over the years including serving as President of the Sarasota Downtown Association, President of the Sarasota Film Festival, Board Member of the Community AIDS Network and Board Member of Big Brothers/Big Sisters of Sarasota County among others. Christine was appointed as Chair of the Real Property-Lease Procurement Task force by former Governor Lawton Chiles.

She has received numerous awards from the groups including the United Negro College Fund, the National Council of Jewish Women and the National Association of Fundraising Executives. She also received numerous appointments over the years to various boards and task forces.

Christine Jennings, 59, retired from the banking industry in 2004 and currently resides in Sarasota, Florida. She is running for Congress as a Democrat, seeking Florida’s 13th Congressional District seat currently occupied by Katherine Harris.

Jennings says, “Congress is in need of change. There are 46 million people without health insurance and our middle class is being squeezed. Members of Congress are turning their heads and not providing solutions for the middle class. This commercial is one of many ways we can show voters what I stand for and how I will fight for their needs in Washington.”

TV ad: http://www.christinejenningsforcongress.com/vertical/Sites/%7B661B9D35-1B36-415F-84DA-90168433FC06%7D/uploads/%7B4889D56A-DE68-4B5A-ADE8-6C026198A463%7D.RM

Christine Jennings for Congress
PO Box 49135
Sarasota, FL 34230

http://www.christinejenningsforcongress.com/

Phone: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

[madville]

88. there is some truth to it

As far as this guy mentioning it, I don't think he did so with any malice but he could certainly of done without pointing it out the way he did.

When I was in bootcamp everyone had to pass a swim test. Out of 75 white males only two failed. Out of 20 black males, about 15 failed. When I was on the high school football team and we had two-a-day practices in the summer, in between sessions we would go to the river and swim at the springs. Everyone went as a team and we had to always bring about 20 life jackets because most of the black guys couldn't swim and some were afraid of the water and always refused to get in. I don't know the reason for this but but I wouldn't call it a stereotype in my experience, there was some truth to it in FL at that time anyway.

[Judi Lynn]

91. Wouldn't it make sense that people learn to swim IF they have access

to either swimming pools, or lakes, rivers, or the ocean?

Does anyone ever watch "The Amazing Race," to remember having seen people in Africa who live near water swim there?

Here are images of black Cubans swimming in Havana, at the Malecon:

[manchild]

97. here is another great video

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1059689597&n=2

Bush might have found a replacement

...This is a political ad from 2004 for some redneck running for president...

[Dob Bole]

100. Many black southerners DO have trouble swimming...

I'm not sure if it is because of the ratio of body fat, as another DUer posted. My theory has always been this: Generally, aside from public waterways, ponds and many pools are privately owned. When I was growing up in Alabama, there was only one pool in town, and it required an expensive membership. It was too expensive for my parents; I only took one course of swimming lessons there as a child. But I did have other places to swim, and knew a couple of people with private ponds. While there seems to be a (yet again anecdotal) disparity between blacks and whites who can swim, I think the reasons are economic and social in nature, and not biological at all.

For example, I have two friends, recent newlyweds from the Bahamas. They have blackly colored skin, but I've been swimming with them several times and they're both excellent swimmers. They grew up around water and swimming as a pastime; many blacks native to the South have not.

[Ladyinblack]

101. Comment by Hudson

I grew up in the south. What this reminds me of is a popular joke in the south that was horrible, cruel and racist. I suspect is still a popular joke among some.

[Czolgosz]

102. Here is yet another Republican video (talking about prison with Negroes)

Kinky Friedman is currently running for Texas governor as a "Independent" but he has run for office in the past as a Republican and he is espousing an agenda that is well to the right of far-right Republican Rick Perry on issues like prayer in school, immigration, etc. Here's a must-see video of Kinky on national TV explaining that he'd punish criminals by sending them to prison so they would have to listen to "a Negro talking to himself," and when asked whether that was perhaps a little racist, Kinky explains why "Negro is a charming word":

http://youtube.com/watch?v=C9mXTxEQI3A

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxrandb]

104. But does this help, or hurt him in Florida? n/t

[alfredo]

106. If he had said that was because the blacks didn't have access

to swimming pools or swimming programs, and if we expand that to academic achievement, we can see that lack of access to equal education, not intelligence is responsible for lower academic acheivement among the African Americans. And as your congressman, I swear I will make sure all citizens have an equal chance to sink or swim in our society.

Of course he didn't say that and wouldn't say that because he is part of the white privilege party.

[rambler_american]

111. Another bigoted comment.

"I grew up In the USA, and I understand, and I know this from my experience, but Republicans are not the greatest truth tellers or may not even know to tell the truth."

"I said something stupid. I apologize for it and would apologize in person to anyone hurt by my comments. To those who are understandably offended, you have my deepest apologies and I want you to know that it was out of character for me and those who know me know that to be a fact. This was a thoughtless remark that does not reflect my lifetime commitment to treating everyone fairly and without bias. I apologize to everyone who is offended by this comment. On the other hand, most right wingers really are assholes. Oh Shit, I did it again. What I meant is not all liars are republicans but most republicans are liars. No that's not it. Ah jeez!"