Dead Psychic's Sketch Of JonBenet Killer Revisited

[arwalden]

I'm not seeing the similarities... other than the obvious two "white" and "male". Gee! :eyes:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9694322/detail.html

DENVER -- Psychic Dorothy Allison believed she knew what JonBenet's killer looked like and provided a sketch to the Ramsey family, based on her visions.

The Ramsey family Web site published the sketch, asking the public, "Have you seen this man? This man may have been in the Boulder area in December 1996."

The sketch was also given to Boulder police, who continued to insist that nobody outside the family was likely involved in the crime.


Comparing the sketch side-by-side with that of a picture of suspect John Karr appears to show remarkable resemblance.

MORE AT: http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9694322/detail.html

[Richardo]

1. Hey, they're both facing forward, too.

Philistine.

[Bucky]

234. And they both look like ET

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. Why didn't they round up Sen. Hatch then?

[LostinVA]

98. OMG -- it does look like Orrin!

[Fenris]

3. Actually, I kind of see it.

Not that I believe in this psychic horseshit, but to me the weirdly thin neck is present on both the sketch and the photo. Other than that, though, it could be any wiry white male.

[skooooo]

26. me too

I see quite a few similarities.

[lumpy]

53. Yes, it has a nose, eyes,hair and

is a man, although that is disputable.

[skooooo]

89. thanks for your opinion

:eyes:

[lumpy]

205. No opinion, just the facts.

LOL

[survivor999]

140. Not bad... Also,

the picture is current but the line drawing was from a few years ago, right?....

[Bluebear]

176. me too actually!

[Rex]

4. Chins all wrong, hair line is all wrong. Looks like he has a toothache.

I hope this wasn't a cash-up-front kinda deal.

[jobycom]

5. Pretty basic features. You could find similarities with a lot of people

Even this guy

[LostinVA]

99. Ha!

[Recursion]

6. The hair is pretty good, and the cheekbones

fill out the chin a little more and it's not bad.

Disturbingly, this "psychic" did better than a lot of police sketches I've seen....

[Xeric]

7. Not a single recorded case

of a "psychic" solving a crime.
Horseshit.

[jbnow]

12. Actually there are several recorded cases

but I don't know that this is one.

A friend watches a lot of Court TV and bugged me to watch some of the psychic detective series. (Don't think it was called that).

I watched some and ever skeptical looked the cases up and the psychic were credited with solving the cases.

[Xeric]

15. Suuuuuure

WHICH cases? They put some crap about "Psychic Detectives" on the tube and the gullible buy into it. The
"psychics" make a fortune off their bunko. Doesn't surprise me in a nation of people who believe in angels and "miracles". If "psychics" could do anything, there would be no lotteries, gambling, stock markets, etc.
Horsehit.

[LostinVA]

102. Xeric is correct

They are some who say they did, but James Randi, etc., have disproven their claims.

[Occulus]

173. FWIW: Google search results

Phrase, minus quotes: "phychic +solve +crime"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=psychic+%2Bsolve+%2Bcrime&btnG=Google+Search

Be honest. You knew I was going to post this. :evilgrin:

[treestar]

230. They don't claim to solve the crimes, though. They just provide

leads. Some cops believe in using them, or had a positive experience with using one, but they only use them when the case is absolutely out of leads.

[Finder]

191. Bull. Although many an innocent person has been...

brought in by whacko law enforcement based on prophets and psychics...

I doubt that happens too much these days.

[1monster]

231. During the period of the murders in Gainesville Florida of UF and

Santa Fe CC students in the early '90s, I had a friend who has some psychic abilities.

She told me that she had had a vision of a man in the woods and told a friend of hers on the police force in our county (about an hour's drive away from Gainesville).

They took her seriously and checked into who they thought her vision pointed too. The man they thought she meant was incarcerated in another state, so her vision was discounted.

Some time later, Danny Rollings was arrested for the crimes. It came out that he had been camping in the woods near Gainesville during his murder spree.

I suspect that much of the time the information that is given by the true psychics is right, but is incorrectly interpreted.

I remember feeling rather stunned when I realized that her vision had been true and, had it been interpreted correctly, Rollings might have been captured sooner, and at the very least, the brain damaged young man (and his family) who was their main suspect for a while might have spared a lot of worry.

[grytpype]

8. The psychic got the lack of facial hair perfectly.

Some people will believe any damn thing.

[Jed Dilligan]

9. They're both creepy, both look like child molesters

the eyes and brows are somewhat similar.

Of course, if you buy the whole psychic thing, isn't it possible that the psychic was foreseeing the current arrest and not the murder?

[Xeric]

14. who "looks like a child molester"?

What a ridiculous thing to say. If you can show some evidence that there is a certain "look" that child molesters have then you should contact the FBI with your proof. I'm sure they'd like to hear it.

[arwalden]

16. Good Catch!

[Jed Dilligan]

32. Enjoy your PC lovefest

And if you see someone who looks creepy to you, be sure to run up and hug them to prove you aren't "prejudiced."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. !

:rofl:

[arwalden]

43. Golly, Wally... define "creepy".

[Jed Dilligan]

44. For me it's a feeling in the stomach and the shoulders

Though I realize your only purpose is to laugh at me, I'll just answer truthfully.

[arwalden]

47. A "Feeling"?

[Jed Dilligan]

50. Yes, a feeling. An instinct.

Everyone has them. Those who deny them are less safe. Our subconscious is there to protect us. This is not a point about criminal justice or the system or the law.

[arwalden]

59. So You Only Trust Pretty People?

:shrug:

[Jed Dilligan]

62. No, not my point at all.

Besides, our friend Mr. Karr is very pretty by someone's standards, I'm sure.

You seem to want me to nail down in language, to codify, a process that by its very nature cannot be put into words.

Here's an example: Eminem creeps me out. Ice Cube doesn't. It doesn't matter one whit that one of them is pretty and white, and the other one is not so pretty and black. I would leave my (hypothetical) children alone with Ice Cube for ten minutes, and I wouldn't turn my back for a second if they were around Eminem.

[arwalden]

69. And You Know This "Creepy Feeling" To Be Reliable.... How?

:shrug:

[Jed Dilligan]

71. By the times I haven't acted on it,

and been hurt. 100% of the time.

[arwalden]

77. Wow! Who Can Argue With Statistics Like That? So Eminem Caused You Harm?

One hundred percent of the time you're right... wow! That's very impressive!

Even better than Sylvia Browne!

[Jed Dilligan]

79. Okay, I'm about to leave for the rest of the day

But it's been fun. Even though you seem more intent on mocking me than understanding me.

[arwalden]

82. Actually, I *DO* Understand You...

... better than you think I do.

[Marie26]

86. I'll back you up

It's intuition, & it's just as valuable as other ways of gathering information. IMO, we all have that sort of warning, whether we pay attention or not. It doesn't mean we should convict people based on a "gut feeling", but it is something to pay attention to, IMO.

[WinkyDink]

111. Ignore your instinct at your peril. "The Gift of Fear". De Becker.

Your senses act and "know" faster than your logical mind.

But hey! Suit yourself!

[Freedom_Aflaim]

97. Stop it Jed...you are offending creepy people

or at least those who defend creepy people.

[fishwax]

122. who's defending creepy people?

[Freedom_Aflaim]

136. Jed

[fishwax]

149. I thought you said he was OFfending creepy people

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

150. Personally...

I think he IS creepy people.

[fishwax]

186. some of his comments in this thread

certainly have been :crazy:

[Freedom_Aflaim]

153. OH yes.. duh I see what you asked

Sorry I should have read your question closer.

Anyway I really cant answer that without being rude or breaking the rules

[fishwax]

162. well perhaps you can point to a post where someone is defending creepy

people in this subthread.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

170. I didn't think you could

though you made a gallant attempt to hide behind the rules.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

171. whatever

go annoy someone else.

Your unwanted attention is giving me the creeps.

[fishwax]

177. haha

Your unwanted attention is giving me the creeps.
:rofl:

[LostinVA]

103. Ick. Eminem isn't the least bit pretty

[Raksha]

114. I agree with you, and I ALWAYS go with that instinct.

The few times I've deliberately ignored my gut feeling about a person, I've regretted it.

[Finder]

192. Intuition is not supernatural...

but part of our primal human nature that we too often ignore. That said, I do not think anyone should be convicted based on an individual's intuition or a "gut feeling" but think it is good to follow these instincts rather than ignore them.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

95. creepy is creepy

[Occulus]

174. DEFINE? Go look at a side by side comparison of

Pope Benedict and Emporer Palpatine.

Nevermind. HERE'S CREEPY.

[Jed Dilligan]

18. Whatever

If someone looks like a child molester to me, I will avoid him. I am not a judge or juror in this case. If you are so committed to "due process" that you can't trust your instincts about people, I hope you don't have kids.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. LOL.

Do you realize that most child molestors are the child's relatives and look like any body else?

Sheesh.

[Jed Dilligan]

22. I doubt they do, actually

You can tell a lot from a person's eyes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. LOL.

Stop it. You're killing me.

[Jed Dilligan]

30. If that isn't an incentive to keep it up,

I've never heard of one!

[Xeric]

24. wtf?

You are claiming you can tell someone is a child molester and avoid him (or her)? That's just bullshit. I can just see someone like you calling the police on a neighbor because "gee officer he looks like a child molester". Says more about you than anyone else.
And oh that awful "due process", what a terrible idea! We should just get geniuses like you with "instincts" that can instantly tell who the criminals are. To hell with courts. Just string'em up. Like all brown skinned people. Yeah they all look like criminals. And ayrabs. They's all terrerists. And those old ladies that live down the street. They're witches! I can tell just by looking! Burn em!
I hope YOU don't have kids so we don't have yet another generation of gullible people who judge others by their own pathetic prejudices.

[Jed Dilligan]

29. You know what?

I would never call the police on anyone, because it wouldn't have any good effect IMO.

The basic point is that if someone creeps you out, you are probably right.

Like everyone else on the internet, you are confusing the political with the personal.




Read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker sometime, it might save your life.


Actually, don't. Keep giving rides to strangers and such. I won't miss you at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. You realize, of course...

that's the same logic that Sherriff uses when he says he doesn't want black people with dreadlocks walking through his town...

[Jed Dilligan]

35. I don't care

I'm not a sheriff. Cops are supposed to approach creepy, out-of-place, or threatening people. It's part of their job. If they can't see real danger signs and only note a person's race or dress, they are lousy cops. Most cops are, indeed, lousy cops. So what's your point?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Obviously.

"If they can't see real danger signs and only note a person's race or dress, they are lousy cops."

Right. A proper police officer looks at their criminal eyes and low crimnal forehead.

Oh when will we ever reintroduce phrenology to the justice system? Won't somebody think of the children?

:rofl:

[arwalden]

40. Phrenology!!??

<< Oh when will we ever reintroduce phrenology to the justice system? >>

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. I won't claim I'm a master debater...

I, for instance, would never have used "I hope you don't have kids" in an argument about how you can tell who the child molesters are by looking at there eyes.

Don't leave, Jed. You've got so much to teach us about master debating.

I'm also curious if you can tell who has AIDS by looking at them. I've heard so much about that ability.

[fishwax]

67. "if they can't see real danger signs ..."

like the obvious child molester indicators in the picture and drawing from the OP? What are those obvious indicators again?

[Jed Dilligan]

70. Funny how many logical rational thinkers there are.

in this thread about a psychic. I figured impressions were fair game here, I guess it was some weird trap.

[fishwax]

78. well, differently phrased, I think impressions probably would be welcome

something like: "they both look creepy to me" or "I get bad vibes from both pictures." As opposed to claiming that they look like child molesters, and then meeting criticism of the assertion that one can immediately identify a child molester from a photo or a sketch with charges of a "PC lovefest" and suggesting we all give rides to strangers.

I think it's a reasonable to give creedence to your instincts with respect to personal safety. But I think it's unreasonable (and dangerous, both personally and politically) to rely on them completely or to trust them without question or examination.

[Jed Dilligan]

80. Hey, I don't trust ANYBODY

There are just some I trust less than others, and the guy in the pic is one. End of story.

The clowns who only come here to mock people and tear up their statements with sophomore logic... Well, I hope they do get into cars with strangers.

[_testify_]

57. Also the same logic Bush was using

when he looked into Putin's soul.

[Xeric]

36. And I won't miss you

When some other nutball decides you look funny to him and decides to take you out of the game.
You are confusing the real with what goes on inside of your head.

[Jed Dilligan]

37. That's happened plenty of times to me.

Of course, usually I notice the "nutball" about a block away and change my route. My being alive despite a number of these incidents seems to prove, not disprove, my point.

[Xeric]

51. He's comin for you Jed!

Don't look into his eyes!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. This monster's eyes are downright terrifying...

Be on the alert for this googly menace.

[beam me up scottie]

159. !

[fishwax]

72. how do you know that was going to happen?

How do you know your feelings wound up being accurate?

[laundry_queen]

41. "The Gift of Fear" is a great book - a must read.

Gavin de Becker's other book, "Protecting the Gift" is good too, should be required reading for parents.

[Jed Dilligan]

46. For all the fun the lovebirds here are having with me,

I hope lurkers do pick up the book at some point. It's good to keep Democrats alive!

[LostinVA]

106. Good book n/t

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

60. What happened to you to make you so full of fear/

[Jed Dilligan]

66. I've been physically attacked by people

at least twenty times in my life.

[arwalden]

112. I Wonder Why That Is.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

116. Where do you live?

[Jed Dilligan]

190. Not on the streets anymore, thank god.

[fishwax]

61. if someone creeps you out, you are probably right

what's the basis for that statement? I mean, I think people should follow their instincts. I have no problem with that. If you find yourself with a "feeling" that a person or a building or an area is unsafe, trust your gut and facilitate your absence. That seems like reasonable advice. That doesn't mean said feelings are accurate or reliable as an indicator of genuine danger, though.

Do you give rides to strangers, as long as they don't strike you as creepy?

[LostinVA]

105. Okay, can you both agree to this?

Some people give off a creepy vibe. If you feel that vibe, avoid them, because of the whole "Gift of Fear" thing, which I believe in. However, someone doesn't "look" like a child molester or pedophile -- they -- like rapists and wife beaters -- come in all shapes, sizes, etc. No one looks like a pedophile... although they can look creepy and skeevy.

How's that?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

58. Or live around black people - according to your logic

:eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

65. ???????

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

115. I didn't think you'd understand

[madmunchie]

118. How about being intuitively being struck by a person, once you see them?

Sometimes a person can just "sense" an evilness or get a "gut feeling" that something is not quite right, just by looking at somebody.

Hey, when I first saw "W", I knew that he was an evil dumbass.

If you don't get "gut feelings" then that is fine, but believe it or not some of us do. Would I execute somebody on just a gut feeling, NO, but would I trust my gut feelings as much as possible?, yes.

[Xeric]

121. It's either projection or prejudice

And it's no way to make judgements on others.
Instincts are what animals have.
Reason and logic are what makes us different from them.
Racism, for example, is a "gut feeling".

[GreenArrow]

131. when all is said and done

we are animals too, and as such, have instincts.

[madmunchie]

142. So true, people are so busy getting off on their superiority

that they deny basic tools given to us by nature. As humans we CAN push past our "gut" instincts and not clobber somebody that just got into our faces and swore at us or cursed us. That part of our humanness does help differentiate and elevate us. But how many times have I had some kind of premonition or "feeling" that somebody was not quite right, and then was proven right down the road. I have had this happen numerous times. Or, how many times have I called somebody (usually somebody that I am close to) to hear them say, "I was just thinking of you".

Some of us are more in tune with this side of ourselves than others. There, of course, are those that are in total denial of these things, which is fine for them, BUT don't try to minimize, make fun of, or "explain away", the unexplainable. You can go ahead and live in your two dimensional world and leave me to my fuller world filled with "possibilities" and "communication" through an existing, but unspoken language.

[Xeric]

152. Ah, the "argument from inexplicability"

"Don't try to minimize, make fun of, or explain away the unexplainable."
This is one the Creationists love to use. Science can't explain God, so He must exist!
What we have here is the case where we ignore that which doesn't live up to our "hunches" and "gut feelings" and only remember the times we were supposedly right... usually sort of. My uncle Harry died last tuesday! Why isn't that strange, I was just thinking of calling him last Sunday. Wow. Weird.
So hoe many times did you think somebody "wasn't quite right" and they were in fact quite alright? A lot more times than they weren't.
How do I know? I've got a gut feeling! Darn me and my superiority. How dare I?

[madmunchie]

161. It truly amazes me when I see that someone else's opinion

is wrong and only yours is right. Not all people are in tune with their "gut" feelings or "intuition". So, because, you, apparently are not, you will "put down" others who are in touch. I actually am a very analytical person, even more so, I am a person, having been test, has Left and Right brain equality. So, if someone asks me "are you right brain dominant or left brain dominant?" I answer, neither - I am actually both hemisphere balanced.

The "gray" is always the harder pill to swallow and to many, black and white just makes life easier. If that is what works for them (you), fine. Too bad that the black and white beings, just can't let the beings who accept that there is the gray, alone to be who they are. Too bad that, even though I say be what you are, that is fine, you cannot extend the same courtesy. You have to shove your ideas down my throat with sarcasm and with inane examples that never even happened in my life. My world is more complex as well as more difficult in many respects and I value where I am BECAUSE I realize that life doesn't come in a nice, neat, tidy package. I don't care if you don't become more like me - truly. I do think that it is sad that you don't believe in the unseen, unknown and the "what" that is not readily comprehended. Too bad that you seemingly have to see, touch, hear and/or taste to acknowledge existence. Feeling for you has an extremely limited definition.

So, in your words, yes, "Wow", I must be really "weird". And damn proud of it.

[Xeric]

167. LOL

What I love about the magical thinkers is the way THEY put on the air of superiority ("I am actually both hemisphere balanced" unlike you ordinary mortals) and then, when someone questions their irrational beliefs, they cry about that person feeling superior! So you get Creationist Jethro's (or maybe Jeds?) with a sixth grade education who claim the pretense of knowing more than thousands of Nobel Prize winning scientists who are just "2 dimensional thinkers".

So anyway, why don't you put your multi-hemispherical "gray" matter to the test in this thread I made for you folks with gut instincts that are so sure you can tell the child molesters from the normal people?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1929818&mesg_id=1932029

[Name removed]

183. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Xeric]

187. Wow!

You're calling me hateful and then accusing me of being a Republican?
Since you claim to be logical, I wish you could explain how your diatribe is something other than pure emotionalism.
It seems to me it is those that go with their "gut instinct" that could be more associated with the Republican mindset. I believe it's Bush that likes to go with his "gut instinct" (and where that has gotten us?) rather than polices based on logic and facts. And you should like Bush since you seem to believe that those who rely on gut instinct become leaders and/or extremely wealthy.
I can see why you don't want to take my challenge, since it might betray the fact that these "gut instincts" are nothing more than personal prejudice or irrational thinking. Kind of like the psychics, who always have an excuse why a scientific examination of their so-called powers yields nothing. Often they will claim that the skepticism of the examiner was why their powers would not work that day. Kind of obvious, no?

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenArrow]

163. it's not just the superiority

it's the hectoring, the insults, the arrogance, the demeaning and belittling...but at the end of the day, you don't know any more than the rest of us. You are as self-righteous as any "creationist", your "skepticism" is glib and easy and unctuous, and fits nicely into a neat little box, where you can pull it out from time to admire it; like Little Jack Horner, you stick in your thumb, and pull out a plum, and oh, what a good boy are you. Like the average born again Christian, you operate not from a sense of faith, but from a sense of certainty.

"Don't try to minimize, make fun of, or explain away the unexplainable." Your type of 'skepticism' minimizes, makes fun of or attempts to explain away the 'unexplainable' precisely because it cannot explain it. Skepticism does not equate to closed-mindedness. It must allow not only for doubt, but for infinite possibilities.

[Xeric]

169. Skepticism bad, Pink Unicorns good

Yes, those of us who question dogma are just like the people who unquestionably follow dogma! Because we don't take into account every goofy "infinite possiblitly" (Pink Unicorns created the Universe) we must be closed-minded.

Look, anybody can believe whatever the hell they want. I really don't care as long as they don't expect me to believe it. But Believers are so rarely satisfied with that. It seems they get angry and defensive by anybody that questions their beliefs.

"Like the average born again Christian, you operate not from a sense of faith, but from a sense of certainty."
This interesting non sequitur kind of sums up the disconnect. See, science and logic doesn't operate from EITHER a sense of faith OR a sense of certainty. If one of your beliefs can be tested and found true or not, that is all that matters. The fact is that science has tested so-called "psychics" over and over again and found zip, nil, nada, nothing. Psychics and Pink Unicorns MAY exist, but the proof just aint there. When it is, let me know.

[madmunchie]

185. There are scientists that say there is no global warming

Scientists developed many of the drugs that are being used that are quite toxic to our bodies, but these drugs are "curing" us. The FDA works with the scientists and puts drugs on the market that are later proven to harm and even kill people. Not all scientists are right.

Have you heard?????? We have more planets..no, wait we have less. Pluto isn't a planet. Wait, yes it is a planet, but another kind of planet and since we now have another kind of planet there are a few more planets...

Sugar is bad for you and Butter is to. So lets make "fake sugar", oops, that causes cancer and fake butter, margerine - 1 molecule away from plastic.....scientific developments and blunders as well.

Black and white, Wrong and right, you and me, come on grow another dimension, life isn't as easy as you would like to say it is.

[Xeric]

188. Science is a conspiracy

to make the religious and gullible look bad.
Obviously you have no understanding of how science works. A hypothesis is tested by examination of the evidence. If repeatable results are found then that hypothesis is found to be true.
You want me to grow another dimension? Hey, how about growing six or seven? Maybe one where Pink Unicorns rule the universe? Nothing is impossible right?
If you think the scientific method is such a myopic view of the world, by all means stop partaking of its benefits. Turn off the pc, go back to the cave and try to use your "gut instinct" to survive.

[madmunchie]

199. Even science isn't an absolute.

[Name removed]

184. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

165. Good Grief.

<< Or, how many times have I called somebody (usually somebody that I am close to) to hear them say, "I was just thinking of you". >>

You just explained it when you said "usually somebody that I am close to". Isn't it natural that somebody you're close to would be thinking of you from time to time. --- Of course all those other times they thought of you and you did NOT happen to call are quickly forgotten because they are insignificant. They probably think about you dozens or even tens of dozens of times a week. Gee... I wonder what the chances are that you might call a loved one within 30-45 minutes of when they were thinking of you.

Had you NOT called them, on that day, at that hour... their thoughts of you would not have been attributed to anything special (other than the fact that they care about you, or enjoy thinking about happy times that they spent with you). --- Yet when you DO call and it just happens to be during an hour (or on a day) that your loved one was thinking of you... then it's a miracle! Wow!

Big mystery there. It's magic, huh? :eyes: Psychic connection, eh? :eyes:

[madmunchie]

202. Why is it so imortant to ridicule and to try to disprove us?

Do we really threaten you that much?

[arwalden]

203. "Do we really threaten you that much?"

[madmunchie]

208. I am not trying to ridicule you, I am not trying to use sarcasm

and intolerance to discount you. You don't threaten me, you couldn't, your level of understanding is just not there.

[arwalden]

209. "... your level of understanding is just not there."

[GreenArrow]

210. you're wasting your time

Pearls before swine.

[madmunchie]

213. How True

Its just so hard to understand why logic doesn't work.

[Warren DeMontague]

144. White collar, hangs out in a church

has a boss in the Vatican.

[meisje]

107. I see dumb people

[Bucky]

223. I am SO stealing this line from you

[lectrobyte]

10. but you're forgetting about all the other sketches that all the other

psychics drew that look nothing like this guy.

[jbnow]

11. Actually I do see more

The skinny neck, the pronounced chin bone, the long nose, the cheek bones...features a lot of people do not have.

They sure don't look alike but I don't know that anyone could look like that picture.

I'm not saying she had a real vision, just I see similarities.

[Donnachaidh]

13. when did Pee Wee Herman sit for this sketch?

enquiring minds gotta know :silly:

[wakeme2008]

17. Myself I see a close match...

but that is just me :shrug:

Note the sketch would show a left handed person by the part of the hair. All his current pictures on CNN show no part. Would like to know if he was LEFT HANDED.

[Goblinmonger]

52. Left handed?

Big leap there. Lots of reasons to part your hair on that side. I do and I am right handed. I have a horrible cowlick on that side and it isn't worth fighting it.

[jeanarrett]

63. Autopsy report posted elsewhere on DU

states child had contusions and beating to right side of head, which would square with a left handed person.

[WinkyDink]

113. I'm left-handed, and I DO part my hair the same as in the sketch!

It's a "comb while bringing the arm back towards its normal position" thing, I think.

[Goblinmonger]

117. But it doesn't prove left-handedness

Maybe he just likes the look of it on that side. Or a cowlick like in my case.

[shain from kane]

56. I heard on the radio yesterday that the person who wrote the note

was righthanded, but wrote the note with a lefthanded slant to disguise his penmanship. The story claimed that it would have taken over 1/2 hour to write the 3-page note in block letters in the Ramsey's house, using their paper and ink pen.

[salvorhardin]

157. I part my hair in the center

Does that make me ambidextrous?

[thereismore]

19. I see a lot of similarities. Cheekbones, neck, mouth. Really that's a

great sketch.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Notice they've got him in a pose...

to give a match as close as possible to the sketch. Other photographs there is even less similarity.

[arwalden]

27. Here's One...

[shain from kane]

74. Looks like Ann Coulter, screwed, blued, not tattooed. Check out that

Adam's apple.

[marions ghost]

81. I would say

She got the hairline & the very thin neck, but the eye resemblance and expression is the creepiest similarity to me. Jawline should be more square though she got the prominent chin.

Obviously this has no bearing on the case. But interesting.

[Bill McBlueState]

23. what I want to know is

What I want to know is, where was this psychic the night she died? Shouldn't the psychic (or at least one psychic) have seen it coming and acted to prevent it?

[shain from kane]

68. Reminds me of a story. There was a self-proclaimed psychic that

lived down the road that put her house up for sale. She had realtor's "For Sale" signs and everything. Those signs were there for months. Finally, there was a sign that said "Reduced Sales Price". My wife said why didn't she set the price at the amount that she knew it was going to sell for, so she wouldn't have had to wait all that long time. Of course, I said since she knew who was going to buy the property, why didn't she browbeat him for the money the day it went on the market?

I also love those ads for psychic fairs in the newspaper. Why bother with the advertising costs if you know who is going to be there, anyway? Just send them an invitation, and don't bother with the general public who don't believe that bu**shit.

[Avalux]

25. I see similiarities -

not so much the actual likeness of features (which there are) but the expression - face is tight and pinched.

[woo me with science]

31. oh for criminy's sake

i get sooo depressed. please, please, please.....more science education in the schools....please...

[LostinVA]

108. Preaching to the choir right here

And, the guy didn't look like this at the time of the murder! And, I do NOT think the sketch looks anything like him -- way too old, the eyes aren't the same, etc.

If Jeanne Boylan had made this sketch off of eye witness reports, I would believe it. She's an extremely gifted, empathetic sketch artist. VERY skilled.

[Nye Bevan]

39. Wow-- I am extremely sceptical of this kind of thing in general

but that is actually not bad!

[shain from kane]

45. The Psycho got it right - It's Norman Bates. Give Robert Bloch first prize

[lumpy]

49. Put a funny little mustache on the

guy in the sketch and it would resemble Adolph Hitler more than the suspect. Love the Hitler hairdo. Psychics are charlatans.

[slackmaster]

54. Haven't read the story and probably won't but I have to laugh anyway

Did someone channel the dead psychic, or did the sketch mysteriously appear on some mundane object like a flour tortilla or piece of toast?

:hide:

The sketch is creepy indeed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. You're not squinting hard enough...

...gosh, you non believers. :eyes:

[LostinVA]

109. hehehehe

[fishwax]

73. the sketch reminds me more of this guy (without the glasses)

Perhaps the psychic is related to Grant Wood. (Or, perhaps Grant Wood is the real killer :wow:)

[shain from kane]

76. American Gothic is another novel by Robert Bloch. See my previous

posting regarding Norman Bates.

[fishwax]

84. i think you're on to something there

too many connections for it to be mere coincidece :)

[shain from kane]

85. Seeking the Presidency: Sherman wouldn't, but Grant Wood.

How's that for a laugh?

Made you laugh. I knew you would. I can foresee the future.



When he was asked in 1884 if he would run for president Sherman replied "If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve”




Edited to add quote.

[fishwax]

94. yeah, that made me laugh

:rofl:

took me a beat and a half, but I laughed ;)

[Richardo]

75. Anybody know the name Roberts Blossom?

The psychic thought the neighbor guy from 'Home Alone' and Doc from 'Escape From Alcatraz' killed her - he WAS pretty scary.

[Contrary1]

83. I would have to see the same profile

before I could make a judgment for sure one way or the other.

However, I am involved with an online group which tries to match the identity
of John Does with missing person reports. Many times we come up with potential
matches that resemble the victim less than this one does.

Keep in mind we're talking 10 years here. Facial characteristics, hair styles,
weight, etc... can change a lot in that amount of time.

Given the pics here, I can see a fair resemblance.

[MoonRiver]

87. You don't think that sketch looks like him????

I can't believe how close the similarity is! And I'm one who usually can see NO similarity between police sketches and the criminals.

[Marie26]

88. Pretty close. nt

[dogday]

90. Actually the length of the nose and the length of the jawline

is very unique.. Unlikely to guess a long face like that with a long nose.. what are the odds of that I wonder? Those are the two most distinguishable points that I see....

[Beausoir]

91. That sketch looks like Hitler without the mustache.

[bleedingheart]

100. that is exactly what I thought...

[Ilsa]

92. The psychic also saw the thinness and the man had a sort

unbalanced size. I mean he is thin, narrow shoulders, and his head looks too big for his body. The brows are pretty close, but the jawline is wrong.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

93. hair is pretty good

chin is way wrong as is the width of face.

[Imagevision]

96. kiddin?!! change the hairstyle and their practically identical!

[LostinVA]

101. The suspect 's face is much thinner now than in photos

taken around the time of the murdrr... not that I believe psychic drawings, nor do I think Karr is guilty of this particular crime.

[Catherine Vincent]

104. They look similar. The real pic has thin lips....strong republican trait.

His neck look like Ann Coulter's thin neck.

[WinkyDink]

110. The drawing looks like a clean-shaved Hitler.

Sorry, Beausoir; I didn't catch your saying it up-thread!

On further looking: Yes, the sketches, except for the chin, are close, especially for someone NOT a witness! For me, it's the cheek indentations and set of the mouth.

I still think Karr didn't do it.

[LiberalEsto]

119. The psychic was from NJ

I used to work as a newspaper reporter in NJ, and recall that Dorothy Allison used her skills in a number of crime cases there.

I can see somewhat of a resemblance in the sketch -- the high cheekbones, thin face, narrow nose and the hair.

[sweetheart]

120. The psychic was obviously right

Has anyone who has abused the psychic over these long years apologized?

The smartest person in the jeanbenet hunt had found the killer long ago and
stands today as a victem of voodoo and a primitive culture afraid that accepting
the truth would admit witchcraft is wiser than their stupid version of hate-cristianity.

[arwalden]

123. Huh?

[sweetheart]

126. huh, you know, "psychics are all frauds."

I'm being incredibly cynical, and for this i apologize, yet i find populare
culture to be anti-psychic, cynical in the extreme. And here is a case, where
the psychic, as i've seen with me own eyes, many times one, is bag-shot straight on.
I'm saying that psychics are batting better than scientists these days.

For all the theories, the scientists are behind the curve, barely realizing global warming
when the signs have been evident for a century in populations and other trends. The
psychics describe rather a more direct truth without evidence of why, or a rational path
as to why that diagram sketch *IS* the killer, but it looks just like him, and had i myself
seen the sketch, i would have identified that man.

The psychics are smarter than we are, and i'm just cynically commenting that we re looking
increasingly, us americanzzzzzzzzz like a bunch of slow grizzleys, respected only for their
claws, but not their adaptability or survivability with a clever opponent.

[arwalden]

128. Yes, I Know They Are.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

181. I advise you stay where you are and back away slowly

while saying "it's all right" in a monotone voice.

For your own safety.

[sweetheart]

221. Its all rights

...all the rights they've taken away, and now, civility,
and the inability to discuss without insinuating someone's crazy
or violent, and unable to discourse.

Its a tragically comical form of argument, if that is one you
are using, or a joke, if that is the purpose, but in the root
cynicism, you and i, who fundamentally agree politically, are drawn in to
a slagging match by an argument of religion.

And the framing of the conflict is this war of modernism and progress, that
i'm representing the religions opposers, a neo-luddite, and the corporate
apologists who've destroyed the planet's ecosystem with 'development', are the
'darwinist' competetive victors who've overcome all the travails of early mankind
and now reside in a utopia of our final evolution. And on the coattails of this
religious argument are a lot of undiscussed frames and presumptions, all loostened
in emotional outbursts, semi-consciously the programming of a lifetime to
run like the factory-owners want, comes out here like puke,
and the mindstates of so many DU's writers, repeating the childhood frames
of a culture of war, why we must have war, why the war is, and is not if you disagree
and you're nuts if you just don't see the need for a war, however framed in
arrogance and/or eloquence.

[girl gone mad]

133. Umm..

1. I don't see a resemblance.

2. The guy hasn't been convicted yet, and it's looking more and more like a false confession at this point.

There is absolutely no evidence that people can accurately predict the future or solve crimes with any degree of certainty using psychic abilities. There is plenty of evidence tehat people can do both of those things using science.

[LostinVA]

180. 1. Agree and 2. Agree

[JackDragna]

134. They ARE all frauds..

..or extremely deluded.

[sweetheart]

139. I love you guys

Its the 19th century still and darwin says we're descended from monkeys! :rofl:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

182. The Pithagorean Theorem is older still. Time to overturn it. -nt

[JackDragna]

215. What you say?

Could you please explain yourself in a language people may be able to understand?

[sweetheart]

220. The pathology of the argument

The science/darwin vs. religion argument is a narrative part of american
modernism. It is repeated in every genereration and gets people
absolutely nowhere, but enforces the taught idea that our society
will progress and evolve positively through natural selection,
as if progress in every generation will be achieved, as if
the true theory of evolution could not live side by side with so
many other theories constantly testing facts without the huge
religious argument we see here to establish the "true" religion,
and today, its that there are no psychics, according to some people.

And all the narratives of modernism are used for war, and they allow
the culture to train its people to be viscious and rude, to attack
each other like dogs, and that is pretty much what you see in this
thread, using the intellect as a sword to cut each other in sparr-play,
but framed inside a culture of war that is not progressive.

And each of these narratives, not being deconstructed effectively on
DU due to people not challenging their truthtelling, instead invite
petty conflict, and tonguelashings.

[crispini]

224. Now that actually makes sense.

Nice meta-observation on this thread. Have you been reading Scaruffi? Language is the way that culture takes over our brains.

[sweetheart]

235. interesting chap

Im increasingly of the opinion that nothing i think is unique, and that i'm just the
slave of a pre-programmed set of dominant narratives that i have allowed to hyjakk my life
as long as the ghosts keep me alive. And then i am a medium for the demons of imperialism,
and need only read my own DNA to discover the world's sins.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

225. Someone set up us the bomb

(Or some variation thereof)

[AZBlue]

124. High square forehead, long thin face, long neck, thin nose, strong chin,

and thick flat eyebrows.

Yeah, I definitely see a resemblance.

[Xeric]

125. Okay, all you intuitive, gut feelers:

Here's your chance to prove yourself.
2 OF THE PEOPLE BELOW ARE CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTERS
Just tell us which one. 50 bucks to the first person that gets it right.

[Zynx]

130. I'd go with A and E.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

143. Obviously C & D.

You can tell by their general creepiness. A is obviously a communist, he looks eastern european. The only thing F is guilty of is not putting down the twinkies. B is guilty of car-jacking my second cousin's roommate's friend. And E is the upstanding citizen.

Duh.

[WinkyDink]

146. B and E.

[muriel_volestrangler]

154. I hope the other 4 don't have good reputations

because you're going to get a lot of people saying they look like child molesters. Having said that, I'll plump for E & F. And I think that may just be because they're the oldest (the older they are, the more chance they were caught and convicted).

[Jed Dilligan]

200. self delete

crappy mouse again

[Jed Dilligan]

201. A and E

[Xeric]

206. OK HERE'S THE ANSWER...

NONE of them are convicted child molesters. None of them. I made it up.
See, what this shows is that the basis for these gut instincts is either personal prejudice or a pre-conceived notion created by some stimulus. In this case it was my suggestion that 2 of these folks were baddies. In the case of Karr it was seeing him perp walked. Now Karr may well be guilty of various kiddie krimes, but it is not possible to tell based on looking at him.
Jed and others let their pre-conceived notions of guilt influence what they believe to be their "gut instinct".
I hope some folks have learned something here.

[Name removed]

207. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arwalden]

211. Oh ssssSNAP!

Excellent exercise and object lesson.

<< I hope some folks have learned something here. >>

That's highly doubtful, as evidenced by the fact you've been put on "ignore". --- But still, a very effective demonstration.

[Xeric]

212. Yeah well,

probably not.
It amazes me how angry some of the magical thinkers get when you dare to question their secret powers.
They claim to be using "both sides of the brain" but it doesn't seem to add up to a whole one.

Anyway, thanks for the OP, it was quite an interesting discussion.

[1monster]

232. You call people who use their "intuition" "magical thinkers."

What you don't seem to understand is that intuition is just your subconscious putting together information that it gathers with all of the senses (sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch) with memory and experience to come up with a conclusion.

Since most people are not listening for the thought process that goes on in their own minds, they call the conclusions intuition, gut feeling, or, in your case, "magical thinking."

Some people are very good at using this thought process to assess the people and environment around them. They are called "intuitive thinkers." Others are not so good at listening to themselves.

Are those who are intutitive thinkers always right? Of course not. Some intutitive thinkers are much more often right than wrong.

Others, who have insufficient experice or analytical skills will be wrong more than right and will not trust their intuition. Or they will figure out where they were wrong and correct those thought processes.

Intuition is no more than a lightning quick thought process that takes all known information available at the time and comes to a conclusion.

The "magical thinking" gut feeling is part of the normal process and is not to be discounted, unless, of course, one has not developed one's intuitive abilities sufficiently to be reliable.

As for psychics, I've known several. Some were really off the mark and some were dead on more often than normal. Their psychic abilities were not such that they could predict the winning lottery number or tell for how much or when their house would sell. Most psychics will tell you that they do not use their abilities for personal gain.

[Jed Dilligan]

214. Yeah,

lying when you make up the rules of a half-assed little game is really fucking effective communication.

Lesson... You both sound like you're no more than 14 years old, trying to teach people "lessons."

This is the most ridiculous thing I've yet seen on DU.

I wonder what the fuck it is you might be trying to accomplish with your little playmate.

[JackDragna]

216. Maybe teach people this whole psychic crap..

..is just that. Crap that doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with real forensic science. The rest of us long ago grew up and learned to stop invoking the boogeyman as explanations for natural phenomena.

[Jed Dilligan]

217. "Psychic" is unknown, intuition is real.

Anyone with a really scientific mind knows that a lot is unknown. Anyone who has practiced science knows that a lot of the best science starts from the gut. They also know that purely forensic methods can come up with the wrong answer because there are other factors that the investigator (perhaps due to a failure of intuition?) failed to take into account.

The dichotomy has nothing to do with the so-called lesson... The little game was based on a lie (that two of the faces were of convicted sex offenders) and yet it was supposed to have this awesome effect (on me, I think in particular). I picked out the two faces that appeared mentally imbalanced on the basis of working with mentally ill populations for ten years. Yes, we do use visual indicators... just as all science is ultimately based on the senses. Not only was the game based on the lie, the lie makes the game irrelevant because the fact that no one was convicted does not say anything about their actual character or activities. 99% or more of sexual abusers are never convicted. So, from a scientific perspective, the "lesson" is totally meaningless.

[Xeric]

226. He's still trying to convince himself he's right!

Amazing.
His imagined ability to root out child molesters by simply looking into their eyes is proven to be utter hogwash and he's still convinced he was right. He still thinks there's something wrong with those 2 people. There isn't, but NOTHING will convince him now that he's got that idea into his head. Want this guy on a jury? Want to work for him?
The problem here is a lack of critical thinking. And that is a major problem in this country. It's why we're in the mess we're in. When half the population is unable to understand the basics of science and logic, and are willing to believe in magic powers, angels, paranoid conspiracies, etc, you simply can't have a functional democracy. It's too easy to get people to believe almost anything. Hence, wars can be started on the basis of lies and nonsense, Religionists can work their magic of hate and ignorance, and people can be conned into voting against their economic interest.

[Jed Dilligan]

228. And the best we to lead the masses out of this dark age of superstition,

into the Light of Pure Reason, is acting like a petulant, annoying little prick.

[WinkyDink]

218. That was STUPID, then. We had no reason to disbelieve your "given".

You didn't simply ask, "What do you think about these guys?"

[Jed Dilligan]

219. Precisely.

And of course, it moots the whole question, since most child molesters are never convicted.

[Xeric]

227. you were wrong, just admit it

You convinced yourself you could tell who the bad people were. You couldn't.
The demonstration was a pretty standard one in debunking various "psychic" beliefs. If someone was "psychic" then the fact that the real answer was "none" should have been no more difficult to discern than any other answer.
Your anger shows that you have simply displaced your embarassment at being shown wrong onto me. That's expected. You see the same thing when a kid gets a bad grade in school and gets angry at the teacher.

Again, what was sadly lacking here was critical thinking.

[Jed Dilligan]

229. Who said they were psychic here? No one.

Your argument, like your game, is only in your head.

The Voice of Critical Thinking... Sheesh....

[nonconformist]

127. I think it's a damn close match myself. *chills* NT

[Zynx]

129. Actually, there are some major points of comparison.

1. General slight build.
2. High hairline.
3. General shape and position of the nose.
4. Size of neck and folds.

[elehhhhna]

132. DArn. Too bad she couldn't psyche up , oh, say HIS NAME or something.

Uh, it starts with a Consonant...or some other letter...

[Richard Steele]

135. I'm waiting until we get an actual statement from the dead Psychic.

[shain from kane]

172. Dead? Bet she didn't see that coming. n/t

[Cleita]

137. I think the pictures have a lot more similarity than many

police drawings of eyewitness accounts of suspects. If not then you are saying all white guys look alike. I mean you would never mistake Karl Rove or Rush Limbaugh for the drawing. I think the woman came eerily close.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

138. I happen to be a powerful psychic.

Here's a sketch of what I think the killer looks like.



Pretty creepy, huh?

[Cleita]

141. So according to you they are related?

[muriel_volestrangler]

155. I would say that photo does match better than the new suspect

It seems to be John Ramsey, taken a few years ago (I haven't kept up with the case, but that's what the picture name implies, and it matches with a book cover). The sketch looks to be of a younger person, but I'd say the nose and chin in the drawing match him better than the teacher.

[Cleita]

160. He still is a suspect.

We'll see what develops from the trial of the teacher.

[savemefromdumbya]

145. Thought it was Lee Harvy Oswald?

[shain from kane]

147. What does Joan say? (Reagan's psychic buddy) Wrong time to

make an arrest?

[Annces]

148. looks similar to me

DNA will provide the evidence. He was emailing the mother.

[Warren DeMontague]

151. I think it's a fairly decent job. There's certainly a resemblance IMHO.

The Universe is a weird place. Who knows.

[Blue-Jay]

156. That's it! The next time I need an answer, I'm calling a psychic!

They're not charlatans at all.

[beam me up scottie]

158. Somebody misses the Meeting Room...

LOL!

Great thread, Allen, you don't know how badly I needed a laugh!

Phrenology!!??
:rofl:

[frogmarch]

164. Mervin Pugh

Back when the Ramseys posted Sketch Man on their website, lots of people commented on how much he resembled Mervin Pugh, husband of the Rs' ex-housekeeper, Linda Hoffman-Pugh, whom the Rs had pointed the finger at in the murder of JonBenet. Not only do I not believe in psychics, I (along with many others) felt the Rs were trying to implicate Mervin via Sketch Man.

Sketch Man also strongly resembles my brother-in-law, as well as a neighbor of mine and one of the announcers at my local radio station.

[Spider Jerusalem]

166. White, male, and skinny...

but other than that, not much of a resemblance. The sketch actually looks more like a young William S. Burroughs than it does like the suspect:

[shain from kane]

178. He preferred guns.

In 1951, Burroughs shot and killed Vollmer in a drunken game of 'William Tell' at a party above an American-owned bar in Mexico City. He spent 13 days in jail before the killing was ruled "criminal imprudence", and was released on bail.



EDITED TO ADD REFERENCE.

[madeline_con]

175. Skinny, with beady eyes and a 3-inch neck....

looks a lot like the guy they arrested.

[muriel_volestrangler]

179. Not far from Steve Buscemi

Who was, after all, famously described as "kinda funny lookin'" in Fargo in 1996.

[QuettaKid]

189. found a better side by side pic.

[Jed Dilligan]

196. Well, other than the fact that Buscemi

has mirthful, sensitive, loving eyes, and Karr has dead, cold, sociopathic ones, there is some small similiarity.

[Jed Dilligan]

193. It's funny the way people get set off in these threads

Back to my original point:

John Mark Karr looks like a pedophile from central casting. So does the sketch.

If you asked me to draw a picture of a child murderer, I would draw someone who looked like John Mark Karr.

I wouldn't hire the guy and I would walk across the street if I saw him coming--but if I was on his jury I would not convict him without sufficient evidence. Obviously. Not that I would ever willingly participate in the circus our criminal courts have become.

I don't think he had anything to do with Jonbenet Ramsey's death.

I think he has hurt other children.

I am entitled to my opinions, despite the fact that some find them "politically dangerous" (direct quote from upthread.)

As a childcare worker I once reported a suspicion of sexual abuse that turned out to be true. The Dad was CREEPY, and his kids were fucked up. A five year old who cannot stop touching his dick and singing about being a pervert is not normal. Neither is a dad who can't make eye contact or carry on a simple conversation. Ding-ding, two red flags. Would anyone argue that that wasn't worth checking out, since it was just based on my idiotic, unrealistic, completely valueless instincts?

[slackmaster]

194. Jed, many people in San Diego said the same about Dale Akiki

A very strange looking man in his mid-30s who was accused of bizarre ritual abuse of children who were under his care at a nursery at a church.

Mr. Akiki was targeted for prosecution by a fanatical DA using testimony that was coerced from children by a therapist who had a history of participating in witch hunts.

After a lengthy trial it took the jury just 20 minutes to acquit the man. While he was in jail, a notorious local gang called the Syndo Mob realized Akiki was innocent, and protected him. When he was released after the trial, the sheriff's deputies, who also knew he was innocent, sent a limousine to jail to pick him up and take him home.

Google Dale Akiki. The story is fascinating. It was the last in a series of judicial debacles that brought down a once powerful District Attorney, Ed Miller.

[Jed Dilligan]

195. Sounds like the gang and the sheriffs

had better INSTINCTS than the press, but that's no news to me.

[Xeric]

197. Come on Jed

Tell me which ones are the convicted child molesters based on your "gut instinct"? It shouldn't be too hard for a person of your incredible sensitivity:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1929818&mesg_id=1932029

[Jed Dilligan]

204. A and E

[Bucky]

222. It looks like Martin Mull. Where was he on the night of the murder?

[EstimatedProphet]

233. Christopher Walken killed JonBenet Ramsey!