Stores profiling people on how they look:

[AnnInLa]

Stores profiling people on how they look

"You’ve probably seen loyalty cards that stores offer. They help those stores develop a profile on you, which then allows them to target what items they offer you. It’s based on what you’re likely to buy, and often people do. But now stores are profiling people based on how they look. Macy’s, for example, can find a “Traditional Catherine” or “Fashion Leader Alex” in a crowd. WalMart targets “Loyal Carlas,” who visit several times a week. Best Buy will even ignore people they profile as non-frequent shoppers. So, these stores are literally judging a book by its cover. We’ll see if it works for them. Sometimes people dress differently."

http://clarkhoward.com/shownotes/index.html

[larrysh]

1. I picked this up from my dad........

My father, who did quite well for himself over the years, never let his money change him one bit. As a matter of fact, I think the day he realized just how much he was worth he was more in awe of it, than
excited by it. Dad liked to dress comfortably, tennis shoes (the least expensive he could find), and a pair of blue jeans. A simple shirt,
a John Deere cap. On the weekends he seldom shaved.
He would go into a car dealership dressed like that and be virtually ignored by the sales staff, often having to hunt down a salesman on his own, as the staff would "pre-qualify" dad as a non-buyer.
Then, he would write a check for the car, the total purchase price,
and he usually got a pretty good deal as the salesman wold low-ball the car right off the bat, figuring my dad couldn't pay much more than invoice.

Now that he is gone, I often find myself, dressed in blue jeans, an old pull-over shirt, and my $99.00 cowboy boots, also being ignored. Happened the other day at the bank, where I now have low 7 figures
in various funds. Nothing I love more than being sneered at by some
24 year-old "bank officer" (read clerk). I love to see their faces when they pull up my checking account and discover that, yes indeedy,
I qualify to get a cashiers check .....at no fee......

[ERF]

3. Human beings have an inherent disposition to judge people

by how they look. We get 90% of our information through our sense of sight. It is a survival instinct, and part of the reproductive instinct.

Animals have assets too. Beautiful hair, large size, long legs are all visual clues of capacity and wealth.

If you dress like you have no money, it shouldn't surprise you that you get treated as such.

Perhaps your father was awed because he knew what it really was like to be poor. You do what he did for the arrogant thrill of being able to flash your money around after being falsely judged by the "plebians" out there working.

Sounds a lot like disgusting snobbery. Have fun "slumming it".

[larrysh]

6. Not a snob thing at all.......

Every human being should be treated with respect and not be judged by what they lack....or what they have......want to test the true character
of someone you might do business with? Take them to lunch, and watch how they treat the waiter, waitress, or busboy......

[ERF]

8. That is totally different from the situation described. I fully

agree that every person should be treated with respect. However we are talking about a situation in which business is being done. The service person regardless of industry has an imperitive to make as much money in a limited time as possible. Thus, to profile someone by what they are wearing allows them to properly spend their time.

To intentionally wear something that indicates one thing and to take pleasure out of waving around a lot of money (or the equivalent action) to prove that one was misjudged is snobbish (at that is using a nice word).

[blonndee]

10. Actually, it's not a good idea for servers to do that

because how one dresses is often NOT an indicator of how wealthy they are, let alone how much they'll tip. It might work somewhat for clothing stores like in the OP, but not at restaurants or other places--car dealerships, for example. I worked part time for a while as a receptionist at a car dealership in Scottsdale and couldn't believe how wealthy some of the sloppiest-dressed people were. I wouldn't have thought they could afford to buy lunch, let alone expensive cars. The salesmen were always telling me "So and so paid cash for that car" and all kinds of stuff about their repeat customers. I was fascinated by it. I was a working-class young woman in a rich-ass, snobby town and I'd never seen so much wealth, so I was always interested in hearing about(i.e., nosy about) rich people.

[ERF]

13. Sorry, my experience is completely different. Car dealerships

are probably unique places because people will intentionally dress down because they expect to haggle.

I worked in a restaurant in a suburb of Boston for 2 years. I could tell immediately based on how people were dressed how much they were going to spend and if they were going to tip.

Every once in a while I was surprised, but very rarely. So infrequently that it simply wasn't worth my time to spend more time with those who I judged to be less worth it.

Keep in mind, this didn't mean I didn't serve them with professionalism and respect. It just means I didn't chitchat or do the types of things that waiters do to try and "make friends" and get a better tip.

Any good waiter (and by good I mean one that makes a lot of money) knows this.

[Orangeone]

17. I'm suprised

I've always heard that rich people are bad tippers.

[ERF]

23. Wait a second. I didn't say that. I said that I profiled people

based on experience.

In a suburb of Boston, people aren't always necessarily "rich people". In fact, it was a middle class restaurant. I would guess the average incomes ranged between $50 - $150k per annum.

The best tippers are smokers and men on dates that are the first and second dates.

If people are trying to make a movie and you are fast you get a better tip.

People who immediately order water aren't going to tip you well.

Europeans never tip well.

Old people (62+) generally don't tip well.

People with 2 special requests generally tip very well if you are fast. People with 3+ special requests are outright stupid questions rarely tip well.

People with coupons of any sort don't tip well. In fact, they often will find something to complain about to the management so they get a free dessert.

Families with well-behaved children tip well. Those whose children are not well-behaved do not.

See - it isn't always about how they are dressed. Most people came in dressed the same. Still profiling though.

[Rainbowreflect]

26. That's funny! I am a non-smoking female that tend to dress

like the aging hippie I am. I almost always order water to drink & I a big tipper. I usually start a 20% & go up for good service.

[ERF]

28. It's hard to say how I would have assessed you because

it would depend on a number of factors tht I obviously did not include. Those were clearly vast generalizations.

That much said, if you came into my restaurant with your signficant other and you both ordered water and proceeded to spend $50 on a meal. Then gave me 20% - I would get $10.

A similar couple comes in, orders cocktails, a bottle of wine, appetizers, and dessert and coffee and spends $100. If they gave me 17% I would have $17 or 70% more. Chances are, they would not have cost me 70% more time.

That was how my mind would work.

Of course some people I just liked and they were fun to talk to and were worth trading time for money. You may have been one of those. Of course not on a Saturday night.

[Clark2008]

35. It's been a long time since you were a waiter, huh?

Good tippers - my hubby and I included - often order water first because, well, it's GOOD FOR YOU.

It's not a matter of being "cheap," anymore - it's simply a good way to cut some calories off of a big meal while getting something necessary for proper-functioning bodies.

Hubby and I also worked in the restaurant biz as college students and know the value of a tip - and how a good tip gets you treated on return visits, too.

[ERF]

46. Maybe I should have been more specific. Those who

order TAP water, instead of bottled water.

Although it has been about 8 years since I waited tables (thank God), it still holds fairly true.

Realistically it is stupid to order bottled water, becuse chances are the tap water is just as good. But I am just talking in complete generalities and how we all thought about people and judged them based on the what we thought they would tip.

These conclusions weren't my own, they were well discussed in the entire restaurant. Moreover, don't misunderstand what I am saying - every customer got treated with professional service and respect. It is just some who we thought weren't worth the extra smozing, because it was a waste of time. You couldnt sell them more than they wanted, things they didn't need and they had a predetermined amount in their minds they were going to tip.

In fact, nowadays, I am more like those people. The whole idea of selling someone bottled water when the tap water is fine, or getting them to order broccoli and chicken with their fetticini alfredo, means they are either indecisive, weak-minded or easily influenced.

As I typed before, 17% of $100 is still 70% more than 20% of $50 and chances are it doesn't require 70% more time. The restaurant is happier too.

[elehhhhna]

43. If Europeans never tip well it's because restaurants in Europe .

put the tip on the final bill. Always.

[ERF]

47. This is a misnomer and I am happy to correct it after nearly

a decade in Europe. In most of the romance language countries - France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, the service charge is already included.

In the Germanic countries: Germany, Holland, Scandanavia, etc. the waiters are paid a decent hourly wage. You are generally expected to give Trinkgeld which can simply be a rounding up: €48 becomes €50 or even €5.75 becomes €6.

Europeans don't tip well in the US because they don't take the time to learn the tipping culture. Since this is available in any half-way decent tour book, it is because they are lazy, or as boorish as they sometimes claim that Americans are when in Europe.

I always take the time to learn the tipping culture in any country to which I am travelling. But of course, when in doubt, it is worse not to tip than it is to tip too much.

[radwriter0555]

50. Also remember that the service charge that's included goes to the OWNER of

the restaurant, not the people serving you.

So tipping is always welcomed.

I always tip at least 10%.

[ERF]

51. I tend to tip around 10% as well although French servers

also make a very good wage, so it is only appropriate when the service is worth it.

If they don't serve me well, I don't pay them extra.

[elehhhhna]

54. Of coures. Why tip those "lazy and boorish" Europeans?

[blogslut]

49. Interesting

I was a waitress for 14 years and I chatted with people because I enjoyed chatting with people. I took care of their needs because that was my job.

[ERF]

52. 14 years means you did it as a profession. I was a college

student and just wanted to make money. In further posts I did write that I chatted with people too, when I found them interesting, but my primary focus was making money.

When it was slow I was in the back reading and studying. When it was busy I didn't waste my time on those who weren't going to pay me for it.

Moreover, I am definitely speaking in vast generalities. That much said, on average I was among the top 3 waiters generating money for the restaurant. My (now) wife was not, but she used to get lots of compliments from the customers.

Every night I made 25-40% more money than she did for the same number of hours.

All told, the restuarant may have been better off in the long term with staff like her, because she probably did foster more repeat business.

In the short term, I was better for the restaurant. For the purposes of our finances, my style made more sense, because my commitment to the restuarant was short term.

Not a bad argument for a long-term perspective though. I fear the corporate world is run by managers who act like waiters in college. Not how I run my business nowadays.

[elehhhhna]

55. Do your homework. Male servers statistically get bigger tips than females

so maybe you weren't such a hotsh!t waiter after all.

Just sayin.

[ERF]

57. I didn't just make more money that my wife.

Only the homosexual males made more than I did.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

12. Yes, greed over people

Exactly why I got out of retail, and refuse to ever shop at mall stores now.
bad Karma imho

[ERF]

14. Bad Karma indeed. Glad that part of my life is over as well n/t

[MadHound]

27. Sorry, but I find that POV absolutely wrong

My mother isn't a rich woman, never has been, never will be. She is a retired RN, living on a fixed income. She's never made more than $50,000 in her life, and that was only for about five years. She dresses as one would expect, a bit dowdy, a bit downscale. And she too experiences retail profiling because of it. I've been with her when she bought her last two cars, and both times she was completely ignored until I went in and snagged a salesman. And both times, the salesmen were curt, bordering on rude, impatient and snobbish in their attitude towards her, that is until she pulled out her checkbook and wrote out a check for the entire price. Then the fawning began.

This isn't a case of my mom slumming, nor having fun. This is a case of my mom being herself, dressing as she chooses to dress, and because of some idiot's preconcieved notion of who is and who isn't a real customer, she gets treated like shit.

I've seen this too in my own dealings with various retail venues, from cars to electronics to real estate. Salespeople discriminate based on the way a person looks. They make a snap decsion on whether or not the person is a cash carrying customer, a comparison shopper, a window shopper or a thief, all depending on their preconcieved notions. I've been treated like shit because I've gone car shopping in jeans and a t-shirt. I've been mistaken for a shoplifter because I've had a pony-tail. I've been ignored because I had a two day old stubble. Yet all that magically changes as soon as you show them the money.

I'm sorry, but that sort of attitude is wrong. If one is looking for polite, prompt and courteous service, do you have to dress in a three piece Armani now? Only the beautiful people are entitled to such? Frankly that's bullshit, I don't care how pressed for time a person is, I don't care if they're trying to make a buck, if somebody, anybody, no matter how they're dressed or look walks into your place of business, then they are a customer, and they should be treated like any other customer, with respect. Because in many, many cases, even if they don't buy today, your treatment of them will determine whether or not they buy from you tommorrow.

[ERF]

29. Have you ever worked in the service industry? Which one?

Besides I already said a car dealership is different.

[MadHound]

32. Yes, I've worked retail.

I've worked in food, print and other retail stores. I always, always treated each and every customer the same, with respect and friendliness. After all, what does it cost, a bit of time, a smile, some friendly chatter. And most of the time one is well rewarded for it, either through tips or repeat business. And if it doesn't pay off in a few cases, oh well, all you've lost is a bit of time:shrug:

[Dem2theMax]

53. Hell no. It's the best way in the world to see what a person is

truly like. I drive an old car. Could afford a better one. But I see it as transportation, nothing more. I don't need to impress anyone. When someone makes a crack about my car, it shows the kind of person THEY are, not what kind of person I am. And I can tell you, when they make a judgment about me based on my car or my clothing, they are the ones who lose. And it shows me where THEY place value, on THINGS, not PEOPLE. I wouldn't waste my time on a person like that.

[Gormy Cuss]

56. It's not snobbish, it's proving the point.

I've done mystery shopping for a major Boston bank and part of the test was to see how the personnel treated customers who were dressed in tees and jeans versus those in power suits, and those who had small balances vs. larger ones. The goal was to treat all customers the same until you knew their relationship with bank.

[SmokingJacket]

19. On my first date with a guy, he left a disgusting mess on the table

for the waitress to clean up: used toothpicks, etc. His attitude was, "That's their job!"

Uh-oh! My little bells went off. Should have dumped him right then. Took much longer, unfortunately...

[ERF]

24. See my post 14. Yours is a good one to add, but a little

too late when one is determining at the beginning.

At least you know better now.

[Eric J in MN]

7. Animals can have wealth? NT

NT

[ERF]

9. By "wealth" I mean assets. Animals have assets. Happy? n/t

[cali]

5. Oddly enough

my dad, who also did quite well for himself- and OK, he did grow upfairly privileged, dressed like a total slob when he wasn't at work, and he always got treated as if he had money.

[Yupster]

31. Your dad was not unusual.

I work with millionaires like him quite a bit.

[elehhhhna]

42. Your Dad was Sam Walton!?!! lol

Sounds like a very cool guy. Welcome to DU!

[mcscajun]

2. Intriguing as a thought...

...wanted to know more, but Clark Howard had no more to say on it than what you posted.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Along those lines

My husband tells of a fellow in Texas who dressed down, went into the bank, and asked for some service, like traveler's checks. The teller turned him down, whereupon the fellow said he'd withdraw all his money from the bank. I think the teller had a heart attack when it was found the fellow was the bank's largest depositor.

[bleedingheart]

11. when my brother worked at Kaufmann's (now Macy's) in Pittsburgh

he found that sometimes the more "professional" shoplifters were the ones who came in dressed up like they were office execs.. Sales folks would automatically let their guard down...and those folks would walk off with high end clothes until they were caught...

Now...the biggest thefts at the store were orchestrated by the employees...and managers no less. One woman manager was found to have a garage full of Clinique makeup worth thousands of dollars.

My brother treated everyone very well...no matter how they were dressed and for this...he was given many accolades by the shoppers and some even would go to management to tell them what a great person he was...

[malaise]

45. And that is the truth

Thieves always fool staff who are looking for stereotypes

[pecwae]

15. Also gender is sometimes a factor

I've found I get much better customer service, especially for high end items like furniture and automobiles, when accompanied by my husband or male friend. I've been in busy stores where I know the sales reps have seen me enter, but they will go right past me to a male/female couple who come in the door next. I leave those stores and buy elsewhere.

[Tracer]

16. I'll second that!

I've been divorced since my kids were small and - obviously - shop by myself.

My strategy in certain places (car repair shops, computer stores, big box home centers, etc. where a lone woman tends to get ignored) is never to WAIT for someone to assist me, but to march right up to the nearest salesperson and start talking (in a friendly manner).

[LisaLynne]

18. I see the same thing with electronics...

and I'm a computer person (meaning I've work for years in IT). But, I'm a chick so I must not know anything 'bout 'puters. :sarcasm:. You'd think people would have gotten over that. But, no so much. There are several stores I refuse to shop in just because of incidents like that.

[MamaBear]

33. That's why my home machine is now a Mac.

The Apple store gives you a number when you enter, and when it's called, then you get your turn with the salesperson, or the tech, or whatever. No more waiting for that clerk in the other stores to get back to you after he's talked to everybody else on the floor, gone for coffee, had a cig break...that is, if he'll stoop to speak to you at all.

One store let me get away without buying (when I was prepared to) on three occasions; another on two occasions. I got my Mac on my first visit.

[bryant69]

20. Yeah this is a shocker

This is something every shopkeep has done since the beginning of time.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[verse18]

21. As if this is something new.

Stores have always been profiling people based only on the way they look, if they looked Black.

[marions ghost]

22. I try hard

to be a 'non-frequent shopper.' Works just about everywhere but the grocery store.

Is there a fashion category "Unruly Ursula"?

[Change has come]

41. . . .

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

25. I shop naked so what they gona sell me?

[ERF]

30. Depends on your to date undeclared gender, age and

whether or not you are in shape. ;0)

[lonestarnot]

37. yes. undeclared. LOL as for the in shape, I will not disclose

that which could be held against me. :rofl:

[SmokingJacket]

34. I work retail, and NEVER do this.

It would be stupid and lose us customers. We take great pride in treating everyone with great politeness and respect -- even the homeless people that accidentally stumble in looking for the soup kitchen. Because you never know. (And of course because I'm a liberal who believes in treating everyone equally!)

Anyway, it's great to cultivate regular customers -- but they're only a portion of any store's business. Very often it's the infrequent shoppers than come in and drop a wad of money.

[noonwitch]

36. Store security also profiles people, and not always in a good way

I worked at a now-defunct Grand Rapids department store called Steketees, when I was in high school. At my training, the manager told us to follow around every black person that entered our department. I asked 2 questions. 1. What do you do about your two black employees? Do they get followed around? and 2. Does the NAACP know you do this?

I was asked in return how badly I wanted to work there.

Not too long before I quit, Mr. Steketee was walking by my department one day and told me to follow around this elderly black lady who shopped there all the time. I told him "Mr. Steketee, she is one of your valued customers, who spends a lot of money in your store. I'm not going to follow her around unless she asks me to".

When I was in college, a black friend of mine and I would go to the Steketee's in Kalamazoo. We would split up to see who the guard would follow-he always followed her.

[GreenArrow]

38. Baucis & Philemon

In the hilly countryside of Phrygia there grew two trees which were cause for much amazement to anyone who saw them. You see, one was an oak tree and the other was a linden, yet the two grew from a single trunk. How did this marvel come to be, and what can we learn from the story?

Sometimes Zeus, the King of the Olympian gods, would tire of the fun and merriment up on Mount Olympus, and he would leave his splendid palace to journey down to earth. Disguising himself as a mortal Zeus would go off seeking fun and adventure. Often on these trips he would be accompanied by his faithful associate Hermes, the clever and entertaining Messenger god.

On this occasion Zeus wanted to see how hospitable the people of Phrygia were, so he and Hermes disguised themselves as poor travelers and flew to earth, knocking on the door of any dwelling they encountered, be it rich or poor, large or small.

They were unceremoniously turned away everywhere, and nobody would deign to even speak to these dusty and famished-looking souls. "Get lost, you bums!" they were told, over and over again, as the doors were insolently slammed in the gods' faces. The inhabitants of Phrygia evidently were not too well-mannered, and surely they had no time for filthy strangers!

http://thanasis.com/store/baucis.htm

[Cobalt-60]

39. I loathe salesmen

So it's bliss when they ignore me.
I was being followed by a not too subtle security guard once and actually handed him some stuff to carry for me.
He didnt let it drop, but I thought he would blow a vessel!

[slackmaster]

40. I used to have a girflriend I called "Dorothy daily"

She was a lot of fun, especially around mealtime. She liked "kitchen encounters".

[AlienGirl]

44. What are the rules for looking "good"?

Seriously, can anyone tell me what would come up as the "right" profile to have? I am not condoning this practice, but since I figure it's probably hard-wired to a degree, I should learn to function within the rules for it. I have no inherent fashion sense (other than liking purple and green more than other colors) and I normally choose clothing based on how comfortable it is (can't be prickly or scratchy, no tight spots, preferably no tags).

Thanks in advance if a nyone has the information!

Tucker

[ERF]

48. I am no authority, but for me clean clothes that fit. Combed

and otherwise groomed hair (I don't mind dreadlocks as long as done tastefully). Obviously no body odor (of course this is less of a problem in the US than in France.) Appropriate posture and a conversation level commensurate with the circumstance.

Eye contact and smiling help too.

Clearly if you clothes are several decades old (expecially from the 70s), that will raise eyebrows, but some people can even pull that off if following the above factors.

Not wearing sneakers ups you in my book too - it is one of the worst American fashion choices.

Some people place value on wearing brand named clothes. I could care less, as long as they fit the person and the circumstnace. I say brand your cows, not yourself.

Controlling your children is high on the list, but a secondary factor.

Does that help clarify things?

[pitohui]

59. there is a whole industry devoted to teaching you this

as a person on the autistic spectrum myself i think it pays dividends to pick out the fashion magazine aimed at your gender, age, and class, and study it well

esquire has good enough fashion coverage for any man over the teen years, really, whereas for a woman you have to be a little more cautious about studying because there are fashion rags for career women, older women, college women, housewives, blah blah blah

the stuff offered in the magazines will be ridiculously overpriced but once you see what you're shooting for, it's easy to duplicate by searching for cheap equivalents in thrifts and consignment stores

sit down in the bookstore one day and go over the magazines, pick out one you like and practice putting outfits together, even starting w. stuff in your closet

i won't say i ever developed the artist's eye but i have gotten pretty good at blending in w. the wealthy pampered wives of my community, so it can be done

advice like "make eye contact," that is just not gonna happen, i am never going to be able to do that, but i can tear a picture out of a fashion magazine and go to the store and put an outfit together


as a hint -- purple and green only work together if you are committed to a bohemian style which may mean more attention to accessories than it sounds like you want to get involved in

my advice is black, gray, and red -- and blue jeans for casual days -- even if they aren't your favorite colors, they look pulled-together, remember you are not dressing for you, you are dressing to make a statement

[Lilith Velkor]

58. "Best Buy will even ignore people they profile as non-frequent shoppers"

I'm glad I fit that profile. I hate it when store people blather at me when I'm trying to think.