Josh Marshall Becoming SKEPTICAL OF UK TERROR PLOT!!!

[Beetwasher]

I've been relatively ambivalent about whether or not the UK terror plot was or wasn't a bunch of bullshit or something in between. Was it hyped? Certainly. Was it total bullshit? Meh. I dunno. But Josh Marshall (For whom I have a good deal of respect) is starting to have his doubts about it and discusses it and also links to a pretty scathing Andrew Sullivan piece on it. Let's just say "curiouser and curiouser" for now.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

"Over the last few years, there have been several occasions when -- for all my skepticism about the Bush administration's politicization of terror alerts -- I've been surprised at how my skepticism, even cynicism, about terror alerts just can't keep pace with the administration's bad faith. I'm not ready to say the London bomb plot is another bamboozlement. But even this now seems to be turning out to be less than met the eye. And there appear to be real questions whether Bush and Blair jumped the gun for reasons other than counter-terrorism. We'll see, I guess."

Sullivan's SCATHING piece:

http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html

[BurtWorm]

1. Wow!

:wow:

[bananas]

13. permalink to talking points memo

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/009440.php

(August 16, 2006 -- 01:44 PM EDT)

Over the last few years, there have been several occasions when -- for all my skepticism about the Bush administration's politicization of terror alerts -- I've been surprised at how my http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1211369,00.html">skepticism, even cynicism, about terror alerts just can't keep pace with the administration's bad faith.

I'm not ready to say the London bomb plot is another bamboozlement. It at least seems clear the Brits were involved in a serious investigation. But even this case now seems to be turning out to be http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html">less than met the eye. And there are real grounds to question whether Bush and Blair jumped the gun for reasons other than counter-terrorism. We'll see.


-- Josh Marshall

[Beetwasher]

14. Cool, thanks!

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

19. These boys have cried 'WOLF!"

so many times that when the real thing comes along like 9/11 these gross, criminally incompetents will be asleep at the wheel, Again!

[MetaTrope]

23. When the real thing comes along

"...like 9/11 these gross, criminally incompetents will be asleep at the wheel. Again!"

Oh no, they'll be awake. And at the wheel...or rather, flight yoke. Again.

[KoKo]

2. Good on Josh!

He is a very reasoned person and doesn't harbor "conspiracy theories" so if he's noticing how very odd the timing and the reports that are now coming out which seem very contradictory...then that's good news.

Makes some of us who were chastised for our skeptical comments here on DU feel in very good company.

Those who have closely watched the Bushies operate over the last years have learned not to believe their first reports about ANYTHING...because sooner or later (usually after much digging) whatever one is told by them turns out to be full of holes and something that only benefited them to start with. Following the money and connecting the dots with these folks is a full time job.

[Beetwasher]

3. Yeah

I wasn't jumping in either way as I was skeptical both ways. Of course, there's no depth to which these criminals won't sink, so it's not inconceivable to me that the whole thing could be bullshit. On the other hand, it didn't seem likely that British officials (w/ the exception of Blair and his stooges) would stoop to fabricating the whole thing.

My guess is it's somewhere in between. The "plotters" may have been up to something, or thinking of possibly being up to something, but it now seems it almost certainly wasn't imminent or deserving of the hype it received.

It's nice to see someone like Josh advancing this w/ the proper tone of modulated skepticism for BOTH sides.

[KoKo]

4. Yep....the truth is inbetween but the constant hype and manipulation of

the public in these very serious matters is appearing to be a pattern that only serves to cause panic and chaos. Like shouting fire in a crowded room whether there really is a fire or someone just thought they might have smelled some smoke.

[KoKo]

5. Sullivan article is interesting, in that he says Paki info from

interrogation might not be reliable. Amazing read from Sullivan. I'm surprised to see this change in him. Heard he had come out against Iraq War after he had been for it...but this piece is really hard hitting. I guess he's not going to be a darling of the Right anymore...

[Beetwasher]

6. It Seems He's Done A Complete Turnabout

The stuff from Craig Murray is pretty incredible. At some other time I would have found it to be stunning and unbelievable. But not these days.

[KoKo]

24. One could be cynical about Sullivan and also George will's "turning"

and say it's the "early rats" deserting the ship. The ones that still want to make a living off writing political analysis. :eyes:

[Ms. Clio]

7. I know you don't mean it, KoKo

but "Paki" is an offensive ethnic slur.

[KoKo]

15. I apologize...I was trying to fit post in "subject line" and had seen the

abbreviated term used here on DU...and so thought it was "acceptable."

I had no idea it was offensive and wouldn't have used it in "abbreviation" if I had known.

Thanks for pointing that out...I'll try to change the subject line if the time hasn't expired. :-( sorry...

[Ms. Clio]

20. no worries!

and I knew you didn't intend to offend. I just thought you might want to know for the future.

[Hamlette]

8. Sullivan has been excellent for at least the last year,

I read him everyday.

He HATES Bush Rummy and Cheney and the Christian right. He brings stuff to his blog that you won't see elsewhere because he sort of acts as a watchdog on the GOP and right wing blogs.

He hates Malkin, Coulter, Rush, just about everyone we hate. Seems he first got mad over gay marriage (natch) but it was the torture issue that really turned him.

Every once in a while he takes a shot at Dems, but no worse or more often than we do, or Bartcop for instance (who I stopped supporting and reading because I got sick of him always going after dems.)

[goforit]

9. Anything to get Lieberman re-elected. Scare the world!!!

Be afraid!!!

[Pirate Smile]

10. kick

[welshTerrier2]

11. question everything!

allow me to add this to the pile: http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0815-36.htm

don't let anyone scare you off of questioning everything ... some conspiracy theories are dead wrong and they're way wacky too ...

that doesn't mean the "rational, let's be reasonable" types are right either ...

when the news is controlled and propaganda is the modus operandi, the bottom line is "nobody don't know nothin'" ...

you got theories? make them prove you wrong ...

[Beetwasher]

12. ...you got theories? make them prove you wrong ... "

Heh. I wouldn't quite put it that way.

[KoKo]

16. Agree! even though it gets harder.........and harder.......and harder....

and harder....to do this...given the "BLOW BACK." :-(

[WiseButAngrySara]

17. Excellent thread and links. I'll read Sullivan now. KNR! ....n/t

[orwell]

18. Tell Joshua...

...not to post on DU, lest he be labeled a "nutjob."

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. What Did He Expect?

80 percent of British muslims charged with terrorism since September the Eleventh ("apply directly to the forehead") have been acquitted and released. I suspect this is just more of the same.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Now we're just waiting for operationmindcrime... lolol!

;)

[KoKo]

25. !

[mhatrw]

26. Wow. I never thought I'd say this, but

go Andrew Sullivan!